Completely 100% disgusted

[themilesfamily]

Yesterday I was on another board that has a rent/trade section on their forums. That board was FILLED with posters who appeared to me to be selling DVC points for commercial purposes (offering thousands of points for sale, 11-month bookings at five or more resorts, bragging about how many satisfied customers they've had over the years.) This is in total violation of DVC rules.

What bothered me even more was that there were NUMEROUS confirmed reservations that were being resold at exorbitant prices for Christmas and New Year's -- usually by the same people who were offering thousands of points for sale. I'm guessing that people who are selling commercially buy up peak dates, specifically to resell them at a higher price, (again a violation of DVC rules.) I think that is totally unfair to the honest DVC'er who is looking to book a property during those times.

The thing that is scary to me is that, according to Disney rules, if they discover someone who is selling commercially, they reserve the right to immediately cancel all reservations made by these people. So someone could go to those boards, think they are making a good reservation with one of these commercial sellers, and their reservations could potentially be canceled.

What made me the maddest is that I flagged one of these posts and sent my concerns to the moderator -- who promptly e-mailed me back saying it's not their problem -- it's DVC's responsibility to catch these people.

I tried to e-mail DVC about this -- but I don't think my e-mail went through.

Any thoughts on this? Am I getting too worked up over nothing? Or has this already been discussed at length in other posts? (I'm new to all this.) Should I contact DVC by phone about this?

p.s. I'm not a DVC member yet, but we are talking about buying in the next few years, so I've been researching.

p.p.s. Sorry for the downer of a post -- I'm usually a cheery person -- but this really stuck in my craw!

 

[Chuck S]

This, unfortunately, is nothing new. While we have a rent/trade forum here on the DIS, the rules for posting are reviewed, and changed, as necessary. And those rules are enforced.

DVC can only do so much. Proving a particular owner or renter is violating the rules can be costly in terms of time. Also possibly costly monetarily, when talking about legal issues, to be sure if a reservation was canceled, sooner or later someone would be screaming lawsuit..even if Disney would prevail in legal action...it would cost money.

However, most members are savvy enough to book higher demand reservations at 11 months out, even booking day by day, which normally gets them their desired reservation.

DVC is a system designed to be most user friendly if you book early, that really is the key. And with no cancellation penalties unless you book less than 31 days out, if something does come up to where you have to cancel, it isn't a big problem, unless it is a last minute cancellation, like for medical reasons.

I normally travel in the off peak (non-holiday) periods, and have never had a problem getting a room at my home resort of OKW, even occasionally booking about 6 months out. Remember of course, that won;t be the case at smaller resorts that book up more quickly. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to report the website you saw..but if it is hosted in another country, there may be little DVC can do. Since you aren't yet a member, I would address your concerns to the regular WDW guest services contact email: wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

 

[themilesfamily]

Chuck, the rent/trade board on DISboards is wonderful -- and is quite frankly the only place I would go to look for rental points. The fact that there are rules on this board -- and moderators who actually moderate -- is a benefit to EVERYONE.

Of course, boards and moderators can only do so much -- and should certainly NOT be held legally liable if someone selling commercially slips through the cracks, (i.e. renters beware -- rent at your own risk -- which is stated up front on DISboards.) I was just shocked at the "oh well" attitude of the moderators at the other board -- and apparently commercial sellers are aware of their "oh well" attitude and SURPRISE that's where they congregate.

Kudos to DISboards for being not just an informative, but a responsible place to come.

I think I am going to report that other board to Disney.

 

[wildernessDad]

It makes me sick to hear this. I hope that your email to DVC went through and I hope that DVC looks into the place and who is doing this.

 

[I'mNoPrince]

They went after the E-Bayers for a while but I tink they just changed screen names and started agian. They even had Web-sights set up telling how wonderful it was to get such a greta price compaired to Disney.

It stinks but is also a great way to book things right at the 30 day mark as they cancel anything they don't rent and the waitlist drop off and have to be renewed for those last few days.

It's just sad with all the members following the rules the few that are not are affecting most of us.

 

[jarestel]

This is a DVC problem that will have to be solved by DVC. Unfortunately, member dissatisfaction has very little to do with whatever course of action DVC may choose to pursue. I can empathize, but as I said, it's a problem that will require action on the part of DVC in order to rectify.

DVC has been a bit more stringent regarding numerous rentals recently, but outside of prohibiting any rental of points at all, there is a limit to what they can do to restrict the use of a member's points.

 

[I'mNoPrince]

This is a DVC problem that will have to be solved by DVC. Unfortunately, member dissatisfaction has very little to do with whatever course of action DVC may choose to pursue. I can empathize, but as I said, it's a problem that will require action on the part of DVC in order to rectify.

DVC has been a bit more stringent regarding numerous rentals recently, but outside of prohibiting any rental of points at all, there is a limit to what they can do to restrict the use of a member's points.

I agree but deep down wonder if they really see this as a way to get potential buyers in a room to view and pitch to. No different them them upgrading from a Value to a Studio to get them on the DVC resorts.

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Cl...oryZ3257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[GEB@okw]

Why get so upset with what another member does with his property? The POS sells they can rent it etc. Disney does not care, it's just another propective member to them. Just relax, make your ressies early and enjoy your membership.

 

[themilesfamily]

It concerns me for two reasons: 1) these commercial renters are knowingly disobeying their contract with Disney and 2) putting their rentees in jeapordy of losing their reservations.

I came across this info:

Disney Vacation Club is designed for members who own and use the DVC resorts for themselves and their family. It is not intended for members to set up commercial enterprises and rent points or vacations for profit.

Disney Vacation Club prohibits the rental of points for commercial purposes. When they discover reservations made by commercial renters, they cancel them without notice.

DVC POS (Public Offering Statement), Section XII (Use Restrictions), Paragraph 12.1 (Personal Use)

".....Use of the accommodations and recreational facilities of the Condominium is limited solely to the personal use of Owners or Cotenants, their guests, invitees and lessees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit. Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described herin is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include, but not be limited to, a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice...."

Beginning in August 2006, Disney has become a lot more active in identifying commercial renters under the 'pattern of rental activity' and cancelling those reservations.

You can usually identify commercial renters as they use sites such as E-Bay with fancy text and photos. Some even have their own web sites.

Commercial renters usually charge far more than the average price for points. For example during 2006 rental prices generally run about $10-$11/point. Commercial renters usually charge $12/point or more.

 

[3DisneyKids]

Why get so upset with what another member does with his property? The POS sells they can rent it etc. Disney does not care, it's just another propective member to them. Just relax, make your ressies early and enjoy your membership.

Because what a member does with his/her property, they are doing to OUR property. DVC resorts are not owned by that one individual. We ALL own those resorts.

And Disney most definitely does care. It has developed the bright line test (discussed here many months ago) and the most severe of the commercial renters were dealt with.

 

[salmoneous]

Note - I would strongly discourage anyone from doing what I am about to suggest... but I thought I'd throw it out as an option...

If you are really upset about this, want to DO SOMETHING and are frustrated by Disney and other website's indifference, you could always see if

Earl K Wood
Orange County Tax Collector
P.O. Box 2551
Orlando, Florida 32802
EKWood@octaxcol.com

gives a damn. I've got a gut feeling none of those folks have paid the tourist development tax on those rentals.

 

[Bopsmom]

...Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Cl...oryZ3257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This sort of thing is right up there with the slimy ticket scalpers.

 

[I'mNoPrince]

This sort of thing is right up there with the slimy ticket scalpers.

Well I read the other day they may be going after them as well as Ticketmaster for the Hanna Montana mess and brokers selling seat numbers before they even went on sale.We'll see where the dust settles on that one as well.

 

[dwelty]

I think it is a good sign that this person is selling a contract. Maybe the new transfer restrictions are affecting them.

Just wait until we have an economic downturn and travel to WDW slows dramatically. Disney will do what it has always done in the past. It will drop their room reservation prices to rock bottom to keep the resort rooms filled. These guys will be paying maintenance fees on thousands of points that they cannot rent!

 

[sjdisneywedding]

What made me the maddest is that I flagged one of these posts and sent my concerns to the moderator -- who promptly e-mailed me back saying it's not their problem -- it's DVC's responsibility to catch these people.

great attitude by that moderator and website

IMHO there is absolutley no excuse for that, they are offering something to the public involving dvc and are not doing their part to see the rules of DVC are followed. To me, they are just as responsible

any hints as to what board that might be, so I can be sure never to use it or to recommend it to anyone else

 

[dianeschlicht]

That linked website to Ebay is interesting. There are several things that could be a problem there, including the use of copyrighted photos.

 

[mikron]

I agree but deep down wonder if they really see this as a way to get potential buyers in a room to view and pitch to. No different them them upgrading from a Value to a Studio to get them on the DVC resorts.

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Cl...oryZ3257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You have to admit that is one nice site they set up.

 

[3DisneyKids]

To add insult to injury, this person is using protected photos. I have seen Disney pull these types of listings off in a heartbeat once they are aware of the copy infringement. Some folks even lost their PhotoBucket accounts b/c Disney closed them for having proprietary photos on there.

When I see these listing on eBay, I always report them (there is a link which makes it easy to do) and say that the seller is using proprietary photos without permission. I don't know if it does any good or not, but I would love to put these folks out of business.

And let me just clarify--I have said this many times--I have no problem with the owner that needs to rent his/her points out once in a while...can't go to Disney this year, doing a different type of vacation, health issues, whatever...there will be a time when many of us may find that we need to rent out our points once in a while. But when people pre-book peak weeks just to make money really burns me. This is why MANY owners find that they cannot get their preferred travel dates.

C'mon DVC...clarify the language in the contract once and for all...in one place it says we can rent, in another it says that we cannot make a profit...make it clear.

 

[dvc_john]

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Cl...oryZ3257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That works out to $22.71 per point for starting bid price, and $24.67 per point for 'buy-it-now' price.

 

[I'mNoPrince]

I just pulled that one because it had a few listed at the same time. looking at the feed back it seems it's been since he started the E-Bay account in 05 and does this each ear several Thank you's for a wonderful Vacation but who really knows.

I also have no problem on someone renting to family or friends getting a reservation for dates someone requested. But these are the ones that burn on me a bit . Yes I know I have the same chance to get in doing Day By Day at the 11 month mark ( I have always had no problem with my dates I needed).

My concern is as DVC grows more and more will be taking advantage of commercial renting and it will be a problem. With DD is HS now we do have to look at Peak travel times over the next few years so this could very well be an issue with us as well.

We will see what happens but I doubt anything will come of it for the same reason it's becoming a problem . Just to much to check on for MS to even handle on whats going on.