Commercial Sellers of DVC Points

[dumbo71]

Apparently, dumbo71 had contacted DVC legal about rental activity and was told they were doing nothing wrong. When I asked if that statement was made in writing, the reply was that it had been a phone conversation.

A few weeks ago, dumbo71 stated that a letter came from DVC legal suggesting that they have noted a pattern of commercial activity that could put the use of their contracts in jeopardy. Rather than confront DVC about the issue, dumbo71 states that they sold a "majority" of their ownership as a result of the threat received.

Hopefully, I have stated that accurately based on the information provided earlier in this thread.

That is absolutely correct.

 

[drakethib]

This has got me confused. Was there a letter sent or not? I thought from earlier that the claim was that a letter was sent, but now I don't know....

Taken from dumbo71 post #94

The letter does exist, I promise. The part that is urban legend is the part about 20 rentals in a year. I have no doubt Beca's friend received said letter and specified his 20 rentals in a year. Thing is I had 20 -25 rentals over a 12 year period and received a letter stating that my reservations were subject to being cancelled and my DVC account subject to being frozen. I think some minute details change letter by letter to fit DVC's criteria of a commercial renter. I read the letter balled it up and used it to start a fire that night! Then Monday morning, I received it on Friday, I called a certain timeshare resaler and sold a majority of my points.



Maybe he meant that he received a letter but had previously called DVC legal and was told it was okay to rent. I think that is what was said.

Don't know, just trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.

I still hope that we see a copy of one of these letters which seem to be in better hiding the Osma Bin Laden.

With that being said, I do hope these letters are in existence which would prove Disney is pursing this matter.

 

[goldilocks_63]

Thanks Chuck for the clarification.

GOldi

 

[TCPluto]

Thanks Doc! At least I think I 've got theat straight now.

 

[rinkwide]

...they accomplished something with their fishing expedition...

"Call me Ishmael..."

 

[mikron]

Asking a question, if disney rules doesn't allow renting of points or booking 20 or more reservations why do they allow a person in there name to buy up to 2,000 points per resort. Thats 10,000 points, they can,t think one family would stay that much. Is this now costing disney money with the lower cost to renters on the dis board then booking with disney. I feel the new rules on the dis boards for transfering and posting confirmed reservations helps. Most people who might have rented with so called commercial people are finding the dis boards. I bought 4 contracts in 04 at SSR, my sister inlaw was a cast member and i got a family discount. I bought for the 50 year term, i will leave to my son and daughter and there children (i hope). If i need to rent some or all of the 600 points that doesn't make me a commercial renter, just good sense to help cover my dues.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Asking a question, if disney rules doesn't allow renting of points or booking 20 or more reservations why do they allow a person in there name to buy up to 2,000 points per resort. Thats 10,000 points, they can,t think one family would stay that much. Is this now costing disney money with the lower cost to renters on the dis board then booking with disney. I feel the new rules on the dis boards for transfering and posting confirmed reservations helps. Most people who might have rented with so called commercial people are finding the dis boards. I bought 4 contracts in 04 at SSR, my sister inlaw was a cast member and i got a family discount. I bought for the 50 year term, i will leave to my son and daughter and there children (i hope). If i need to rent some or all of the 600 points that doesn't make me a commercial renter, just good sense to help cover my dues.

You must have missed something in the discussion, because Disney DOES allow renting. They just don't allow it as a business. I do agree though, there is a fine line somewhere in there. Now If I could own up to 5000 points (which I could if I had the funds), I'd probably use all of them myself and spend the two coldest months at OKW!

 

[keys2kingdom]

Asking a question, if disney rules doesn't allow renting of points or booking 20 or more reservations why do they allow a person in there name to buy up to 2,000 points per resort. Thats 10,000 points, they can,t think one family would stay that much. Is this now costing disney money with the lower cost to renters on the dis board then booking with disney. I feel the new rules on the dis boards for transfering and posting confirmed reservations helps. Most people who might have rented with so called commercial people are finding the dis boards. I bought 4 contracts in 04 at SSR, my sister inlaw was a cast member and i got a family discount. I bought for the 50 year term, i will leave to my son and daughter and there children (i hope). If i need to rent some or all of the 600 points that doesn't make me a commercial renter, just good sense to help cover my dues.

You can own up to 2,000 points per resort but only a total of 5,000 points per individual, not 10,000. I'd imagine someone could use 5,000 points in a year if they REALLY tried. Also, they didn't say you couldn't book 20 or more reservations, they said you couldn't book 20 or more reservations that weren't for the owner. It's the fact that those 20 reservations are in different names that's the tip off. If you rent some or all of your 600 points consistently and have over 20 reservations not in your name then apparently that DOES make you a commercial renter. Like it or not that seems to be Disney's criteria.

 

[Beca]

You can own up to 2,000 points per resort but only a total of 5,000 points per individual, not 10,000. I'd imagine someone could use 5,000 points in a year if they REALLY tried. Also, they didn't say you couldn't book 20 or more reservations, they said you couldn't book 20 or more reservations that weren't for the owner. It's the fact that those 20 reservations are in different names that's the tip off. If you rent some or all of your 600 points consistently and have over 20 reservations not in your name then apparently that DOES make you a commercial renter. Like it or not that seems to be Disney's criteria.

Actually, as my friend read his letter to me, it did not say, "20 or more reservations that are not in your name". It just said, starting on the 21st reservation, all reservations will be reviewed, and are subject to being cancelled at DVC's discretion (or something like that). That's what made my friend mad...his question was, "How do I use all my points, if that's the case"? I mean, he could try for GV's....but, that would just be a waste of his points. He felt he was being penalized for owning so many points.

 

[keys2kingdom]

Actually, as my friend read his letter to me, it did not say, "20 or more reservations that are not in your name". It just said, starting on the 21st reservation, all reservations will be reviewed, and are subject to being cancelled at DVC's discretion (or something like that). That's what made my friend mad...his question was, "How do I use all my points, if that's the case"? I mean, he could try for GV's....but, that would just be a waste of his points. He felt he was being penalized for owning so many points.

Now that IS interesting. I bet if he hit that 21st reservation and they were all in his name and stayed that way that would be the end of it, no more questions asked. Now if they went through those 20 and found some not in his name I bet they might pursue it. Just guessing of course, what the heck do I know. They're going to have to be very careful combing through these reservations or they're going to have some seriously POd people. Unwarranted cancellations are not a good thing.

 

[dumbo71]

Taken from dumbo71 post #94

The letter does exist, I promise. The part that is urban legend is the part about 20 rentals in a year. I have no doubt Beca's friend received said letter and specified his 20 rentals in a year. Thing is I had 20 -25 rentals over a 12 year period and received a letter stating that my reservations were subject to being cancelled and my DVC account subject to being frozen. I think some minute details change letter by letter to fit DVC's criteria of a commercial renter. I read the letter balled it up and used it to start a fire that night! Then Monday morning, I received it on Friday, I called a certain timeshare resaler and sold a majority of my points.



Maybe he meant that he received a letter but had previously called DVC legal and was told it was okay to rent. I think that is what was said.

Don't know, just trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.

I still hope that we see a copy of one of these letters which seem to be in better hiding the Osma Bin Laden.

With that being said, I do hope these letters are in existence which would prove Disney is pursing this matter.

Last post in this thread I promise.

The part everyone seems to be missing is that this 20 rental criteria for the letter is WRONG. I don't care if anyone here believes me or not. I mentioned it ONLY to let people know apparently DVC has determined in a variety of ways who qualifies as a comercial renter. It has nothing to do with the magic number 20.

I would not want anyone to think they could simply have 19 rentals a year and all is well.

Beca, please ask your friend if you can post his letter here with the names removed. I should have never burned the letter. I would have posted it in a second. I burned it out of frustration.

For those that think ths letter is the thing of urban legend, I respect that. I am skeptical by nature as well. Problem is the people here posting this stuff are, in this case, telling the truth.

What motive do we have to lie about it? It is more like a Scarlet letter than a medal.

Off my soap box.

 

[kdzgon]

Last post in this thread I promise.

The part everyone seems to be missing is that this 20 rental criteria for the letter is WRONG. I don't care if anyone here believes me or not. I mentioned it ONLY to let people know apparently DVC has determined in a variety of ways who qualifies as a comercial renter. It has nothing to do with the magic number 20.

....

I'm not so sure about that. My guide told me the "magic" number of 20 weeks ago (>6), well before this thread even started. It came about when we were discussing how many points we should buy - I commented that we could always rent the excess points if we had too many, and she warned me about the current policy of examining rental activity. She also told me that 20 or more rentals would be assumed to be "for profit" and would be reviewed to determine status. She also said that some had already been identified and steps were being taken, and that Disney was beginning to "aggressively police" the "abuse" of points (her words, not mine).

Laurie

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Okay, I've been following this thread for some time without comment. I just have to say though, Dumbo, if you received a letter and sold your "rental" property part of DVC and only kept your "personal use" property....Then yes, you WERE a commercial renter in the eyes of DVC and many here on these boards. My POS says it is for personal use. If you had or have considerably more points than you could or would use yourself personally, then the excess that was rented had to be for a profit of some sort....ergo...commercial use.

completely disagree

 

[castleri]

If this has been discussed before please forgive me but I am curious as to the different name scenarios. We were at WDW Sept 19-29 and reservation was in my name - second group of family arrived for stay Sept 24-29 with reservation in married daughter's name - address from different state. How do they know whether this was a rental or not? I didn't put my name on both reservations as we had the DDP and I didn't want to pay double for those last five days. I had the same scenario coming up for Christmas week until several family members cancelled and left me with a studio I didn't need. That would have been two reservations with different names just this year which were actually all family and no rentals. I did rent the studio so I could give the money to my son who is unable to go due to losing his job two weeks ago. It would have been the room for his family and that was the only way I could come up with money to give him since the room was to have been their Christmas gift and it will be awhile before they can think of a vacation at WDW or I would have just said I'll reserve you a room when you can go. The points would expire by then.
The other factor is that there are 3 contracts in the family and we use points among us depending on when they expire so sometimes I make the OKW or SSR reservations using my points for one of the children and sometimes my daughter makes the BCV reservation for me using her points . I think there has to be more to the equations than 20 rentals with different names. Is this 20 per year or per life of the contract?

 

[kdzgon]

It has been my impression that "20" is a trigger of sorts - nothing more, nothing less. I do not believe it is an automatic classification at all. JMHO, from my conversations with my guide.

 

[Sammie]

It has been my impression that "20" is a trigger of sorts - nothing more, nothing less. I do not believe it is an automatic classification at all. JMHO, from my conversations with my guide.

I totally agree. I am sure there are other criteria they are using to flag potential commercial renters and then proceed from there. If one is not a commercial renter I don't see the problem in being concerned with this. If one has a legitimate reason for booking 20 or more reservations in different names I am sure one can prove that.

 

[kimberh]

Disney should not have sold a excess number of points to families if they have now decided to tie our hands with the points.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Disney should not have sold a excess number of points to families if they have now decided to tie our hands with the points.

They are only tying your hands if you are a commercial renter. Like on Ebay or Redweek or some other site. If you bought "excess" points to rent out, you bought in error.

 

[JimMIA]

Disney should not have sold a excess number of points to families if they have now decided to tie our hands with the points.

Disney would have no way of knowing what number of points would be too many for my family's vacation needs. It's MY job to know that, and buy accordingly.

If I bought too many points hoping to rent them out, shame on me! It's my bad, not Disney's.

 

[drakethib]

McDonalds should have not sold me all that fast food and made me eat it and gain weight.......