Colleges don't have IEPs & 504s

[3boymthr]

I told my middle DS' regular and SpEd teachers and the school psychologist that I have come to the realization that the child will never go to college and that my goal is just to get him graduated from HS with a career path mapped out. Either having attended vocational or agricultural high school or with entry into a vocational school (such as NE Tech or Wentworth) or the army planned.

You could have heard a pin drop in that room. The teachers then very subtly read me the riot act for not having college as a goal for him.

But let's face it there are no IEPs or 504 plans in college and while he is a delightful child whom I love dearly he has severe learning disabilities (he is in 5th grade and reads and writes on a 1st grade level) on top of moderate ADD. In Massachusetts he has to take and pass a standardized test (MCAS) just to graduate and we have been told by his specialists that he will never pass the test.

Further, the school psychologist had just told me that we had to be careful not to put him in situations where he might fail as because of his personality he is a child who is primed to become severely depressed possibly suicidal if he does not achieve his goals.

On top of that he HATES school.

And truthfully, IMO you can be just as successful and sometimes more successful as a tradesperson (my DH) or farmer (my dad) or in the military (my FIL and SFIL and BIL) as you can a person with a college degree or a person who goes to college then drops out.

So why is it so wrong to not want to set my child up to fail and having a goal that 75 years ago would have been lauded as an excellent goal??? Why did the teachers read me the riot act for not having college as a goal for him??? I just want to set up realistic goals that he can achieve.

 

[punkin]

You are the parent and you know and love your child. If you think he does not belong in college (and face it, even a lot of kids who do go do not really belong there) then you need to set things up for him so he can succeed in life without college. Good luck.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My dd just went to the Tech School for their sales pitch. She is in 8th grade.

Vo-Tech here is big and nothing to be ashamed of.Teachers should understand that the correct career path for someone is not always college.

 

[MushyMushy]

Some colleges most certainly do have accommodations for learning disabled students under the ADA. Some accommodations I'm aware of off the top of my head are course substitutions, extra time on tests, having tests read to the student, tutoring, and note taking. I was diagnosed with a learning disability at the age of 30 in college and was surprised to learn all this. I ended up taking a lot of course substitutions for college math and foreign languages because of the nature of my disability. I also got extra test time, but didn't take advantage of that.

I'm not saying you're wrong for being realistic with him by any means. We're going through the same issue with my daughter. She has such high dreams and expectations for her life (she wants to be an airline pilot), but she doesn't have the cognitive skills required to get her through a rigorous college program. Although we're not discouraging her from pursuing her dream, we're also trying to point her in other directions to look for other (and more realistic) dreams.

 

[Pixiedust34]

All the best to you and your ds. College isn't a good fit for everyone, and there are other careers he could succeed in with technical/trade school, law enforcement, or military training. Our ds (some learning differences) is in 8th grade and we're being open-minded with various career paths he might take.

I know your ds is young, but have you looked into community college as an option? Our community college has a lot of great two year programs that offer career training in a wide variety of fields.

 

[LuvOrlando]

It's not ok that they made you feel bad. Not all kids want to or should go to college. I think you need to take that conversation from where it came. Everyone in that room was college educated so for them it is probably hard to understand another point of view. The world is full of lots of good & smart people who didn't go to college for whatever reason. Seriously, I am sick to death of our society stomping all over people who won't conform to the neat little box we are all supposed to squeeze into and the pressure to conform seems to be getting stronger and stronger. I feel bad for the kids growing up right now, I have a DS12 & DD11 so I see it, the standards are ridiculous. At the moment perfect is athletic & thin, college educated, self loathing and guilt ridden yet happy all the time (tears mean medication), conformist (being unruly means medication) with plenty of money to burn yet aware that humanity is destroying the planet so we should hate ourselves for existing. From all the talk about embracing diversity I don't much of it going on anywhere. Bunch of hypocrites.

I think you did a good thing standing up for yourself and you child and if the people in that room can't see that, its their problem. Your son was given to you to be his advocate and it sounds to me like you are doing what is in his best interests.

As an aside, there are programs that exist to help your child succeed in college, at CUNY we had the SEEK program. But, that's not what I am hearing from you. What I hear is that your family just isn't into it and the school is making you feel bad over the issue. That's just not right, everyone has a right to do what they want how they want. I like that people are different, the world would be such a bore if we were all the same.

 

[Hannathy]

I totally agree with you not everyone should go to college. and your right colleges don't have IEP's and I truthfully think they have got out of hand, but that is another story, and even if colleges did life doesn't.

I think you are the most realistic grounded person in that room. Why not set your child up in a job he can learn and survive on rather than go thru the motions of going to college and putting in time ending up with something he can't take care of himself on.

Just a word to the wise don't push the military too hard because they are very selective anymore and with his learning difficulties he may not be accepted. You can't just join the military anymore. they don't need many "grunts" with all the technology so you have to be pretty sharp.

Keep looking at life realistically Mom that is a big problem with too many educators they don't look at life outside of academia.

 

[Rora]

Some colleges most certainly do have accommodations for learning disabled students under the ADA. Some accommodations I'm aware of off the top of my head are course substitutions, extra time on tests, having tests read to the student, tutoring, and note taking. I was diagnosed with a learning disability at the age of 30 in college and was surprised to learn all this. I ended up taking a lot of course substitutions for college math and foreign languages because of the nature of my disability. I also got extra test time, but didn't take advantage of that.

This is all very true. Many colleges accomodate 504/IEP students.

However, you know your child best and how dare anyone make you feel bad. If you think that the vocational route would be best for your child, then do that. You are making a smart move by considering alternatives. College isn't meant for everyone and that's 100% okay.

 

[golfgal]

Most colleges do have assistance for kids with learning disabilities, ESL, etc. TRIO is one program I know of. No, not every child should go to a 4 year college but I think EVERY child should do some kind of post secondary training. A high school diploma really doesn't get you anywhere these days.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

I went to community college and then on to a 4 year college.

Both colleges had forms and things to fill out for each class stating if you had an LD and needed any accommodations and the student would have to meet with each professor (and maybe someone else, not sure) to discuss accommodations and things.

I had 2 girls in my class who had to fight for their accommodations though when it came time to do the PRAXIS test, I know 1 girl needed extended time and one of my professors actually wrote a letter stating that she DID need it.

 

[LilyWDW]

Most colleges do have assistance for kids with learning disabilities, ESL, etc. TRIO is one program I know of. No, not every child should go to a 4 year college but I think EVERY child should do some kind of post secondary training. A high school diploma really doesn't get you anywhere these days.

In the society we have built today, I agree with you.

However, I think we need to relook at what we have caused and change things. Not everyone is college material. It is that simple. Yet, we have gotten to the point that even the trades that used to be taught on the job are "requiring" advanced degrees. Why? There is no reason for it. I think we should reevaluate our dependence on college degrees and go back to also offering more trade schools.

 

[sparklynails23]

He would need a high school education and math skills to qualify for most apprenticeship programs, too. So, maybe that's a more reasonable goal. With all the "educated" people we have these days, there are fewer good plumbers and people that can fix a car. Technical school is not at all bad, and those plumbers charge $100 to snake a drain. Heck, I could do that with no training.

 

[barkley]

we have several universities near us, so we get constant news reports on the status of recent grads. the reality is a very high percentage, no matter how well they did in their degree programs, cannot find even entry level jobs in their chosen career paths. the bulk of job openings are for some type of skilled labor.

many of the university profs. are speaking out and saying they feel that parents need to stop just pushing every child upon high school graduation to go to college-some are not suited to it, some just are not ready to decide on a career path, and some will embark on career paths that either (1) there's no foreseeable marketable future for, or, (2) the cost of tuition will never be offset by the salary they will make (and they will be drowning in student loans for decades).

our local high schools are big on career planning-with a big emphasis on looking at vocational training if your interests or talents lie in something that either a traditional college can['t provide for, or, the traditional college route to that profession is not cost effective as compared to a trade school or courses/training through other resources (the local high schools consider this a teaching opportunity on the concepts of budgeting and cost analysis).

kripies-i look at what the salary i made as "a college educated professional"-it pales on an hourly basis as compared to what i pay mechanics, plumbers, hvac folks...

 

[golfgal]

In the society we have built today, I agree with you.

However, I think we need to relook at what we have caused and change things. Not everyone is college material. It is that simple. Yet, we have gotten to the point that even the trades that used to be taught on the job are "requiring" advanced degrees. Why? There is no reason for it. I think we should reevaluate our dependence on college degrees and go back to also offering more trade schools.

It isn't just about what is learned in the classroom that makes post-secondary education important. What you learn living in a dorm, dealing with college personnel, etc. is equally as valuable. I can't think of a trade that hasn't required some kind of licensing program since forever so it isn't new at all. I see nothing wrong what so ever having jobs that require a post-secondary education of some kind. Employers see a kid that has completed some kind of program/degree, etc and it tells them they can finish what they start-a HUGE skill in the workforce. It also tells employers what kind of employee someone is most likely to be given the strength of the coursework taking in college. I know of very few kids that aren't "college" material IF they attend the right college for them. Even "college material" kids don't do well if they don't go to the right school for them.

 

[golfgal]

we have several universities near us, so we get constant news reports on the status of recent grads. the reality is a very high percentage, no matter how well they did in their degree programs, cannot find even entry level jobs in their chosen career paths. the bulk of job openings are for some type of skilled labor.

many of the university profs. are speaking out and saying they feel that parents need to stop just pushing every child upon high school graduation to go to college-some are not suited to it, some just are not ready to decide on a career path, and some will embark on career paths that either (1) there's no foreseeable marketable future for, or, (2) the cost of tuition will never be offset by the salary they will make (and they will be drowning in student loans for decades).

our local high schools are big on career planning-with a big emphasis on looking at vocational training if your interests or talents lie in something that either a traditional college can['t provide for, or, the traditional college route to that profession is not cost effective as compared to a trade school or courses/training through other resources (the local high schools consider this a teaching opportunity on the concepts of budgeting and cost analysis).

kripies-i look at what the salary i made as "a college educated professional"-it pales on an hourly basis as compared to what i pay mechanics, plumbers, hvac folks...

What you pay is no where near what they "make" so it really isn't a fair comparison. Yes, a plumber may charge $100/hour but half of that off the top goes to taxes because plumbers more often than not are self-employed, then add insurance, material costs, travel costs, other overhead and they are "making" about 1/4th of that.

 

[chamonix]

Yes, most colleges DO have services for students with learning disabilities. There are even colleges that specialize in it, as well as private programs that do the same thing. There is often an extra cost for these services though.

My child is in the same boat and my husband works at a university, so between those two things Im very familiar with these programs. I know she isn't going to be a rocket scientist, but with the right supports and preparation, she will, hopefully, be able to attend college. I've done quite a bit of research in this area, and if you are interested, I could send you some links by PM.

That being said, the staff at your child's school was way out of line if they "read you the riot act". If they had respectfully offered their professional opinions on his chances for a college degree, and offered to provide you with information on college programs for kids with ADD and LD, that would be understandable. But the "riot act?" No way would that fly with me as acceptable, professional behavior at an IEP meeting, and they would have known it ASAP (lol) and I would follow that up with a letter documenting the incident. Yeah, I'm a mama bear like that.

 

[Pigeon]

I work at a university, and yes, we do have programs for students with learning disabilities.

While I think you are wise to think about a variety of educational options for your child, what will probably be more meaningful is what your child wants for his future, not what you want. If he can manage to graduate from high school and wants to go to college, he might be able to swing it. I wouldn't discourage that, if it's what he wants. OTOH, if it's not his thing, there's nothing wrong with taking a different path.

Personally, I would not be pushing the military as an option to somebody who has depression issues. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Dh is a high school teacher. His administration places enormous pressure on teachers and staff to try to do everything they can to get kids to go to college. That may be where they are coming from. I think it's a little silly. It's one thing for teachers to encourage kids to think about college, but ultimately it's the family and the student who should be making that decision.

 

[Becky2005]

You do know your child but I wouldn't give up on the reading just yet. 5th grade was a very hard year for us in general, once middle school hit, things improved a lot with switching classes, more opportunities, etc...

I know I had heard forever the "flip a switch" thing for DS and it's not quite there BUT something did switch this year in 8th grade for him. I've never seen him immediately go do his homework, choose to study on his own, etc... ever but he did this year & it's not a single thing I have done.

Where in 5th grade he was *barely* at 2nd grade reading level (and he has ADHD as well)....this year he was put into regular English class with modifications but it's because he is only 2 grade levels below in reading vs. 3 grades. They couldn't even score one of his standardized tests in reading one year -- I'm pretty sure it was a 0.

He will never become a writer or some field with major English component I don't think but he has come a long way since 5th grade when I wasn't sure he would EVER get the concept of reading down.

I know my goal has also always been just to get him reading enough to survive the real world -- as long as he can read signs, menus, directions, job applications, etc... I would be happy.

He wants to be a Computer Game Designer which should be interesting concept because I'm sure 99% of boys his age also want to do that. Our HS offers classes in that though.

Now in our case, my son is very good in Math -- unless it's a story problem but give him numbers to figure out and he can do that. So, hopefully he will play up his strengths in real life.

I have no idea if he will really end up going to college or not but I wouldn't want to rule it out just yet. I highly doubt he will get the 2 year foreign language in that colleges want but who knows, maybe a different language from English would be easier. English has some weird rules for things and he would read something with the rules he was taught only to be told "yes you followed the rules, however, THIS word is an exception to the rule".

 

[3boymthr]

What you pay is no where near what they "make" so it really isn't a fair comparison. Yes, a plumber may charge $100/hour but half of that off the top goes to taxes because plumbers more often than not are self-employed, then add insurance, material costs, travel costs, other overhead and they are "making" about 1/4th of that.

DH is in HVAC you're right he makes about 1/3 that. But still $30/hr + OT and On-call works out to over $65,000/yr. Not too shabby.

I do know my DS. He himself has mentioned that he thinks he wants to go to vocational school (we just finished investigating it for oldest DS).

What prompted the comment was the fact that we (the teachers and I) were discussing his inability to pass the MCAS. Under current Massachusetts law if he doesn't pass the MCAS he can't get a diploma - just a certificate of completion - no matter whether he's done all the work as required under the IEP and 504. No diploma means no college. DH and I have actually discussed the reality that we may have to send him to either private school (if we can find one that will accept him) or to a public school in a different state to live with a relative for his senior year of HS so that he can have a diploma.

I just feel flabbergasted that they are so ingrained in the get the kids to college mode that saying I don't think he's going to go to college - especially in light of the discussion we were having - raised such protests. Like having a goal of becoming a tradesperson or other non-college profession (we have a friend who works for the DPW and he is extremely happy) is a bad thing.

 

[xCourxCorex]

OP, you are right, not every child is made for college. However as MushyMushy said, there are some colleges that do have programs/accomodations for learning disabled children.

Curry College in Milton has a program called PAL for learning disabled college students - it is one of the 1st and best of its kind in the country. Your DS is still quite a few years off from going to college, but when he gets to high school and the time comes to start making decisions about post-high school education, you may want to consider at least looking into colleges which have similar programs. Good luck