College entrance cheating scandal

The point is the deterrence. Imagine a multimillionaire deciding whether or not to bribe a sports coach to get his kid into a top college. If he believes that the worst thing that can happen if he is caught is a fine of a few thousand dollars, or possibly community service, he is much more likely to go ahead with the crime than if he knows that he could be sent to prison, even for a short sentence.
 
The point is the deterrence. Imagine a multimillionaire deciding whether or not to bribe a sports coach to get his kid into a top college. If he believes that the worst thing that can happen if he is caught is a fine of a few thousand dollars, or possibly community service, he is much more likely to go ahead with the crime than if he knows that he could be sent to prison, even for a short sentence.
What are we really trying to deter though? College entrance to kids who don't otherwise qualify? In a world where money can buy anything, and as a pp aptly pointed out, a cash endowment to any school can get a student in, regardless of their personal merit. In itself, is that a form of cheating? I guess not, and it's not illegal. This entire scenario is just so, so stupid. I haven't followed all the details but can anyone tell me why they didn't just go the donation route and maybe end up their kids in the same school and a park bench with their names on it?

And as for Martha Stewart's comments, although I wish her no ill-will, I find them laughable. For those of you that disagree with incarceration, what do you believe a better alternative would be?
 
I haven't followed all the details but can anyone tell me why they didn't just go the donation route and maybe end up their kids in the same school and a park bench with their names on it?
Because that literally costs millions of dollars, whereas the bribes to sports coaches and the SAT cheating schemes cost a few tens of thousands of dollars.
 
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What blows my mind is that Felicity Huffman got 14 days in jail, and Skylar Richardson got time served at 7 days (plus 3 years probation) for abuse of a corpse. (anyone not familiar with the Richardson case, look it up)

Mind blown that test cheating is TWICE as much jail time as what Skylar Richardson did. Our judicial system is twisted!

There are so many examples of the irregular "justice" in our system. There was a mom that got what 5 years in jail for lying about where she lived so her 5 year old could go to school in a good district. Tanya McDowell if you want to look it up. She was accused of stealing "15000" from the school district by sending her son to the wrong school.

So yes, I'm glad that Felicity Huffman did receive jail time, but the sentence doesn't prove that the rich are now being held accountable at all - in my opinion. Our justice system really doesn't seem fair all the time.
 
There are so many examples of the irregular "justice" in our system. There was a mom that got what 5 years in jail for lying about where she lived so her 5 year old could go to school in a good district. Tanya McDowell if you want to look it up. She was accused of stealing "15000" from the school district by sending her son to the wrong school.

So yes, I'm glad that Felicity Huffman did receive jail time, but the sentence doesn't prove that the rich are now being held accountable at all - in my opinion. Our justice system really doesn't seem fair all the time.

That’s funny you mention the homeless mom sending her kid to the wrong school. When discussing all this last night with my friend, she mentioned that case. It boggles my mind how things are decided in our country.

Yes, I think the judge felt he needed to set an example with Huffman. And getting house arrest isn’t exactly punishment when you live in a mansion. She owned her mistake and said she’d accept the punishment. I believe she regrets her choice.

Agree, this one case doesn’t prove the wealthy are being held accountable. In fact, I sadly feel if Richardson wasn’t a white cheerleader in middle/upper class her case would’ve been very different.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Aunt Becky. I feel her crime was much worse than Huffman.
 
There are so many examples of the irregular "justice" in our system. There was a mom that got what 5 years in jail for lying about where she lived so her 5 year old could go to school in a good district. Tanya McDowell if you want to look it up. She was accused of stealing "15000" from the school district by sending her son to the wrong school.

So yes, I'm glad that Felicity Huffman did receive jail time, but the sentence doesn't prove that the rich are now being held accountable at all - in my opinion. Our justice system really doesn't seem fair all the time.
I had never heard of the case so I did go look it up. It turns out the five year sentence for Tanya McDowell was part of a plea deal that included narcotics charges and apparently charges for offering to provide a prostitute to an undercover officer. It’s not the same at all.

However, I do think that Felicity got off too easy. Amazing what a high-priced attorney can do for a celebrity.
 
I had never heard of the case so I did go look it up. It turns out the five year sentence for Tanya McDowell was part of a plea deal that included narcotics charges and apparently charges for offering to provide a prostitute to an undercover officer. It’s not the same at all.

However, I do think that Felicity got off too easy. Amazing what a high-priced attorney can do for a celebrity.
I'll have to take a look at it again, but it's important to note that she was arrested at different times for different things. As I read it she got 5 years specficially for "larceny" for stealing from the school. She also got a sentence for dealing drugs that occured seperate from the school issue and was allowed to serve that concurrently. Because she got arrested for the drug dealing after she was arrested for the school issue, people stopped "caring" about the fact that she was sentenced to 5 years for the school thing because ya know, she was a bad person so we shouldn't care anymore?
 
There are so many examples of the irregular "justice" in our system. There was a mom that got what 5 years in jail for lying about where she lived so her 5 year old could go to school in a good district. Tanya McDowell if you want to look it up. She was accused of stealing "15000" from the school district by sending her son to the wrong school.

So yes, I'm glad that Felicity Huffman did receive jail time, but the sentence doesn't prove that the rich are now being held accountable at all - in my opinion. Our justice system really doesn't seem fair all the time.

Kelly Williams would be a more appropriate example (Ohio). Tanya McDowell also did time for drug dealing, and few other crimes. She's no angel. But it was ridiculous they expected her to pay back the money. I have no problem with her son not being allowed at that school

Overall, I agree with the irregular "justice" in our system. I likely said this before but minimum drug sentences (both possession and dealing) are so beyond actual violent crimes. It's usually the poor who suffer for it.
 
I had never heard of the case so I did go look it up. It turns out the five year sentence for Tanya McDowell was part of a plea deal that included narcotics charges and apparently charges for offering to provide a prostitute to an undercover officer. It’s not the same at all.

However, I do think that Felicity got off too easy. Amazing what a high-priced attorney can do for a celebrity.
Admittedly I'm not right up on all the details of this situation, but I assume this has been an on-going situation over time and others besides the celebrities are being prosecuted? It will be very interesting to see what type of verdicts and sentences they get. I think Huffmans's guilty plea mitigated the sentence somewhat, as it almost always does for anyone. :scratchin
 
Jail seems like overkill and she is being made an example of. Jail is absolute hell and should be reserved for serious criminals.
Many, many more parents involved in this scandal than Huffman and Loughlin. If by "example" you mean this is an example of the kind of punishment parents who pled guilty could receive, then yes. Prosecutor wanted 30 days, Defense wanted house arrest :rotfl:, judge split the difference.

I'm not being pedantic when I say jail is typically where you go on arrest and until the trial - assuming you can't manage bail. Prison is where you're sentenced if required. Hoffman's incarceration begins more than a month after sentencing. The facility has not been determined. It could well be a Club Fed prison.
 
Because that literally costs millions of dollars, whereas the bribes to sports coaches and the SAT cheating schemes cost a few tens of thousands of dollars.
There was the one client from China whose daughter was portrayed as a soccer player to get her into Yale. The real irony about all that was the mom wanted her daughter to go to a prestigious American university and had never even heard of Yale. That actually cost over $1 million. Reporting is that one Chinese family paid Singer over $6 million.

There was a time when it might have been possible to get almost a guaranteed spot with good connections and a relatively small donation. However, these days the number of admits to these prestigious schools hasn't gone up while the number of prospective students has gone way up. I remember way back when I was applying for schools I was reading that the Ivies would have an acceptance rate around 15-17%. These days it's closer to 5%. That's the main reason why the talk is that the minimum donation seems to be around $10 million for a spot at one of these schools.
 
Many, many more parents involved in this scandal than Huffman and Loughlin. If by "example" you mean this is an example of the kind of punishment parents who pled guilty could receive, then yes. Prosecutor wanted 30 days, Defense wanted house arrest :rotfl:, judge split the difference.

I'm not being pedantic when I say jail is typically where you go on arrest and until the trial - assuming you can't manage bail. Prison is where you're sentenced if required. Hoffman's incarceration begins more than a month after sentencing. The facility has not been determined. It could well be a Club Fed prison.
It most definitely would be a "Club Fed" prison. She's asked for FCI Dublin.

For the most part I didn't see Huffman getting locked up for years. It just wasn't likely at all.
 
I think the prison sentence is a fair amount of time. Actually, she'll go to jail, not prison--prison is for terms longer than 365 days. She may even be able to have minimum security and some creature comforts in there. She's not going to be bunking with hardened criminals. I think overall, her sentence seems considered and fair, and I hope she gets through this with dignity and grace.

I’m sure prison is horrible. But I think Felicity and her career will be just fine. Yes. People make mistakes, sure, but she knew she was doing something illegal. She just got caught. I feel badly for her daughter.

I actually think the jail time will benefit her in the long run. People won’t see her as someone who got off. She’ll get some respect for doing time.


I like this New York Times article, linked to below. The whole article is a good read. Particularly the sections I snipped below. It talks about the inequity of sentences given to other people who weren't white or rich.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/13/us/felicity-huffman-sentencing.html
<snipped section:>​
In the end, a federal judge in Boston sentenced Ms. Huffman to 14 days in a federal prison on Friday. She was the first parent to face punishment in a case in which nearly three dozen wealthy people are accused of using lies and bribes to smooth their children’s way into prestigious colleges.

Looming over Ms. Huffman’s sentencing were questions about fairness, and whether she and the other mostly white parents in the case would be treated more leniently than poor or nonwhite defendants accused of educational fraud. The issues were emerging in a case that has been seeped with questions of inequity — and well-to-do parents’ efforts not just to guard their advantages, but to grab more.

The judge’s decision to impose a prison sentence on Ms. Huffman, whom prosecutors saw as one of the least culpable parents, made it more likely that any parents convicted in the case will face at least some prison time, even if the period is brief and largely symbolic.​

The judge’s decision to impose a prison sentence on Ms. Huffman, whom prosecutors saw as one of the least culpable parents, made it more likely that any parents convicted in the case will face at least some prison time, even if the period is brief and largely symbolic.​
In arguing that the parents in this case should go to prison, prosecutors had pointed to examples of defendants like Kelley Williams-Bolar, an African-American single mother in Akron, Ohio, who was sentenced to five years in prison — a sentence later suspended to 10 days in jail, three years of probation and community service — for using her father’s address to get her children into a nearby suburban school district. They also pointed to a group of black public schoolteachers, principals and administrators in Atlanta, who were convicted in a conspiracy to cheat on state tests, some of whom were sentenced to as much as three years in prison.​
“If a poor single mom from Akron who is actually trying to provide a better education for her kids goes to jail, there is no reason that a wealthy, privileged mother with all the legal means available to her should avoid that same fate,” Eric S. Rosen, the lead prosecutor in the case, said in court.​
“If we believe in just punishment,” he added, “we should not put the Williams-Bolars in jail while letting the Huffmans go free.”​
Ms. Huffman’s lawyer, Martin Murphy, argued that most comparable defendants were given probation rather than prison. And he said that, just as Ms. Huffman’s wealth and fame should not lead the judge to impose a lighter sentence, they should not lead her to impose a longer one, either. He had argued in a sentencing memorandum that a term of imprisonment was not needed as a deterrent in Ms. Huffman’s case because she had already suffered considerably, by being publicly shamed, seeing her acting career crater, and facing the anger of both her daughters.​
“It can’t be the case that Ms. Huffman should be treated more harshly because of her financial circumstances and her notoriety,” he said. [. . .]​
<snipped section:>​
"Issues of equity seemed to be very much on Judge Indira Talwani’s mind.​
She told Ms. Huffman that what had outraged people about the admissions scandal was not the revelation that something that was supposed to be a meritocracy was not really one. Everyone already knew that the admissions system was distorted by money and privilege, she said, with wealthy students having numerous advantages over poor ones, including better academic preparation, individualized tutoring and college counseling, access to fancy internships, and basics like food and stable housing.​
People’s outrage, she told Ms. Huffman in the crowded courtroom, was “that in a system of that sort, in that context, that you took the step of obtaining one more advantage to put your child ahead of theirs.”​
She suggested to Ms. Huffman that, in imposing a sentence, she was clearing the slate for her.
After serving her time, she said, Ms. Huffman could move forward and rebuild her life.
'After this, you’ve paid your dues,” she said. “I think without this sentence you would be looking at a future with the community around you asking why you had gotten away with this.'"
 
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What's her name from Full House is going to get the book thrown at her. And in my opinion, right now she kind of deserves it. There's a lot of evidence against her, yet she really doesn't think that she did anything wrong.
 
What's her name from Full House is going to get the book thrown at her. And in my opinion, right now she kind of deserves it. There's a lot of evidence against her, yet she really doesn't think that she did anything wrong.

I'm not sure. Prosecution isn't exactly going balls to the wall to punish these people.
 
What's her name from Full House is going to get the book thrown at her. And in my opinion, right now she kind of deserves it. There's a lot of evidence against her, yet she really doesn't think that she did anything wrong.
At this point Lori Loughlin knows she’s in deep doo-doo. It’s been pretty well known that she regrets turning down the plea deal with a 2 year recommended sentence.

What Huffman did was boost her kids’ test scores, but didn’t otherwise try to override admissions. It’s hard to say if her daughter would have otherwise been accepted or denied by USC, but she was clearly trying to stack the deck.

Fraudulently presenting a kid as an athletic recruit is clearly more severe. But it also shows how rigged admissions is for sports.
 
I'm not sure. Prosecution isn't exactly going balls to the wall to punish these people.
The prosecution is not going to ask for a month. The plea deal was for a 2 year recommendation.
 
The prosecution is not going to ask for a month. The plea deal was for a 2 year recommendation.

The probation department is also causing a problem by claiming there is no "intended loss" in their sentencing recommendation. That's why Huffman got off so light.
 
















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