Christians suing for the right to be intolerant

[Disney Doll]

Wanna peanut butter cup?

I love peanut butter cups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I gave up chocolate for Lent!!!

Uh oh...yet another tangent to go off on!!!!!!

 

[Disney Doll]

Hey, when I say sucks it gets edited. Just checking to see if that changed.

And if I don't get a peanut butter cup pretty darn soon, then Rick will suck.

OK, got that out of my system.

 

[cardaway]

It isn't that complicated. If everything was a free speech issue there wouldn't be harrassment laws. The fact is there is, and they are there for a reason.

Time will tell what this specific person will do if she wins her suit, but at least IMO, it's pretty clear her actions could quickly become harrassment. That's what the problem in the workplace and schools are, not free speech.

 

[Disney Doll]

It is easy. You obviously dont say you are gay when you are hired , but if you want your partner to be part of of collective insurance , or you have to take care of him/her because they are sick , or they die and you have to take time off etc , you could lose your job because your boss discovers you are gay. Many states are taking out this protection from there laws , so you can legally be discriminated agains because of your sexual orientation.

Now , you are not going to loose your job because you said that , at your wedding , the church was decorated with with lily. Try this with your commitment cermony , and in some states , you can loose your job, or be trown out of your appartment.

And my God, I am a ::gasp!!:: Christian Roman Catholic, and I think it's wrong to discriminate against gay people. I believe in partners/spouses rights to insurance, decision-making, and keeping your job regardlessof your sexual preference or gender identity!!!!!

And now, I will wait for someone to answer that I am the exception, not the rule as far as Christians go, to which I will reply that in my circle of family, friends, and church , I am the rule, not the exception.

Amazing, isn't it, how predictable these debates become?

 

[Disney Doll]

I don't regard the media in general as conservative or liberal. Clinton took quite a beating from the media during his presidency and Bush does not seem any more popular. Of course, there are specific networks and print media that certainly do have a political bias.

After 9/11, I came to the realization that the media is more sensationalistic than partisan. Media companies are profit making entities and the companies with the juciest stories usually attract the larger viewing audience and profits.

AMEN!!!!!!

(Not meant in any way to be a religious invocation,but rather one expressing agreement ).

 

[dadto1]

It isn't that complicated. If everything was a free speech issue there wouldn't be harrassment laws. The fact is there is, and they are there for a reason.

Time will tell what this specific person will do if she wins her suit, but at least IMO, it's pretty clear her actions could quickly become harrassment. That's what the problem in the workplace and schools are, not free speech.

The problem goes even farther in what do you consider harassment. If I say, geez I hate pepsi and someone standing nearby is drinking one. Could that person say I was harassing them because they were drinking a pepsi. It's too much of an individual opinion of what harassment is to legislate it.

I mean if someone is standing in your face screaming I hate you. That's harassment, but some of the other harassment cases I've say in the news are simply bs.

 

[auntpolly]

And now, I will wait for someone to answer that I am the exception, not the rule as far as Christians go, to which I will reply that in my circle of family, friends, and church , I am the rule, not the exception.

Ditto in my kneck of the woods. It's the conservative Christians who I believe are intolerant around here. Not the mainstream ones.

If you want to blaim OH for it's conservativeness causing problems , don't look at NE OH, we voted for Kerry.

 

[JennyMominRI]

And my God, I am a ::gasp!!:: Christian Roman Catholic, and I think it's wrong to discriminate against gay people. I believe in partners/spouses rights to insurance, decision-making, and keeping your job regardlessof your sexual preference or gender identity!!!!!

And now, I will wait for someone to answer that I am the exception, not the rule as far as Christians go, to which I will reply that in my circle of family, friends, and church , I am the rule, not the exception.

Amazing, isn't it, how predictable these debates become?

My mother, a devout Roman Catholic, would agree with you

 

[toto2]

And my God, I am a ::gasp!!:: Christian Roman Catholic, and I think it's wrong to discriminate against gay people. I believe in partners/spouses rights to insurance, decision-making, and keeping your job regardlessof your sexual preference or gender identity!!!!!

And now, I will wait for someone to answer that I am the exception, not the rule as far as Christians go, to which I will reply that in my circle of family, friends, and church , I am the rule, not the exception.

Amazing, isn't it, how predictable these debates become?

This was obviously not directed to you. I am just stating that in some states , sexual orientation is not protected in the discrimination clauses.

And usually , Roman catholics tend to have much more liberal views than what is called the religious right , or the born again christians. By that , I mean they tend to have a much more "live and let live" attitude. For Roman catholics , religion is a personnal thing that they dont try to turn into law.

 

[Disney Doll]

Pondering the harrassment thing here....

Perhaps this will explain my thoughts on harassment.

Someone mentioned the KKK in a post. I will preface my comments by saying, in bold, that I do not agree in any way shape or form with the beliefs of the KKK. I believe that anyone who doesn't have the nerve to show their face when stating their beliefs is a coward.

A group of KKK participants marching...not harrassment.

A group of KKK participants marching onto someone's private property and lighting a cross on fire...harrassment. I guess it has to do with the specific target thing for me.

 

[toto2]

Here is a nice ( in my opinion) piece written about the subject we are discussing:

Christians Sue to Discriminate Against Gays, When They're Not Too Busy Suing for Divorce

The ever-inventive Christian right has unveiled a new tactic in their hate campaign against lesbians and gays.

In a brilliant piece of twisted logic, they're now filing lawsuits against universities and workplaces that protect gays from discrimination, claiming that anti-discrimination policies discriminate against their own Christian right to...er...discriminate. Got it?

You may be appalled by their grim determination.
But you gotta love how they use Christianity to attack gay people, and then expect us to ignore their own gross violations of scripture. Especially in the matter of divorce and remarriage.

After all, Jesus never said a word about homosexuality, which was widespread in the Hellenistic world. But he was crystal clear on divorce and remarriage.

Matthew 5: 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Luke 16: 18 Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

That's Jesus talking. Seems pretty clear to me.

And yet most modern denominations - including lots of Christian conservatives and people who claim to be born again - allow both divorce and remarriage. In fact, the highest divorce rates in America are in the Bible Belt.

A few years back I interviewed a high-ranking Christian conservative who was leading some typically misguided campaign against gays. I couldn't resist asking him about the divorce discrepancy.

He admitted that he himself was divorced and remarried. But no problem - he repented and God forgave him.

I asked him whether he ought to go back to his first wife if he really repented, since Jesus clearly says that he's still committing adultery with his second wife. He said no, to repent meant to promise God that he won't ever get divorced again.

Hmmm. I asked where I could find this in the Bible. He patiently explained that in Jesus' day people only lived to around forty. Today we live much longer, so obviously Jesus would have taught differently today.

Go ahead and snicker, but I actually have no problem with this, in itself. It seems like an enlightened example of how people can reinterpret religious injunctions to fit the times.

My problem is with Christians - like him - who are perfectly willing to rewrite the Bible to cut themselves slack in their own lives, but then turn around, attack gays, and cry: The Bible made me do it! I think it's called hypocrisy, and Jesus took a rather dim view of that.

Case in point is the Christian Legal Society, the organization of pious lawyers and judges that's spearheading the new campaign to overturn anti-discrimination laws.

I did a Google search that combined the words "Christian Legal Society" and "divorce." Guess what? Google immediately burped up several members of the Christian Legal Society who are...you guessed it...divorce lawyers!

This may seem surprising, given the very real damage divorce does to families, but I'm not surprised. Compassion is hard. Hypocrisy is easy.

Jesus, however, may not be so forgiving.

from:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-rotello/christians-sue-to-discrim_b_18935.html

 

[ead79]

Ditto in my kneck of the woods. It's the conservative Christians who I believe are intolerant around here. Not the mainstream ones.

If you want to blaim OH for it's conservativeness causing problems , don't look at NE OH, we voted for Kerry.

I just wanted to say that not all conservative Christians (myself being what you would likely consider quite conservative) feel the way you describe. While my beliefs about many issues are quite firm, I am equally insistent that Christians are to love others as Christ has loved us. That doesn’t mean I must agree with everyone, just that I must love them.

 

[RickinNYC]

No, it doesn't suck. I know of no "community" that is constantly being discriminated against do you?

Who's kidding who?

 

[AuntieM03]

I just wanted to say that not all conservative Christians (myself being what you would likely consider quite conservative) feel the way you describe. While my beliefs about many issues are quite firm, I am equally insistent that Christians are to love others as Christ has loved us. That doesn’t mean I must agree with everyone, just that I must love them.

Thank you ead79, you always express things that I am feeling.

 

[auntpolly]

I just wanted to say that not all conservative Christians (myself being what you would likely consider quite conservative) feel the way you describe. While my beliefs about many issues are quite firm, I am equally insistent that Christians are to love others as Christ has loved us. That doesn’t mean I must agree with everyone, just that I must love them.

I don't want to be disrespectful, I do respect your faith, but I think when a groups rights are being denied, saying you "love" them really doesn't help. And I'm not talking about you -- I don't know how you feel. But when conservatives say that they love gay people but they are sinners and don't deserve the same rights, I think that is intolerance just the same.

 

[jgmklmhem]

Ditto in my kneck of the woods. It's the conservative Christians who I believe are intolerant around here. Not the mainstream ones.

If you want to blaim OH for it's conservativeness causing problems , don't look at NE OH, we voted for Kerry.

What is interesting and isn't brought up often is if you look back on the 2004 election results of Ohio 2,859,764 (51%) voted for Bush, 2,741,165 (49%)voted for Kerry but in the Same Sex marriage Ban Ballot Measure which presumably was on the same ballot the numbers are quite a bit different 3,329,335 voted yes on the ban (62%) and 2,065,462 (38%) voted no on the ban (all counties but Athens voted for the ban). So at least on this issue even if you make the assumption that all those who voted for Bush also voted for the ban then you also have a significant amount of Kerry voters (450,000) voting for it as well which seems to me to say it is not only extreme Christian Conservatives who might not agree with Gay rights or marriage. Similar numbers also pop up in Michigan as well which actually went to Kerry but still had 59% vote for the ban. I on the other hand am pretty conservative and also live in Utah (most of my life in FL though and not LDS) and voted against the ban here in Utah.

all stats are from CNN's election coverage web pages with 100% reporting

 

[LukenDC]

Last night I was talking with a guy who lives with his partner in North Carolina. He said that they had to plant large trees outside of their home to drown out the shouts of "qu**r" and "fa**ot" that the neighbors would hurl from their car windows. Someone put a used condom in their mailbox. My friend likes his home and does not want to move, but admitted that he sometimes feel scared when he is getting his mail and a car is coming. For the record, this is a masculine, well built 41 year old man. He said that they don't fly gay pride flags and keep to themselves, but the neighbors don't like two men living together. Listening to his story made me very sad.

There is no doubt about it, there are gay and lesbian people living in fear for their safety in this country. Not all gay people live in a progressive urban environment, not should they have to.

 

[ead79]

I don't want to be disrespectful, I do respect your faith, but I think when a groups rights are being denied, saying you "love" them really doesn't help. And I'm not talking about you -- I don't know how you feel. But when conservatives say that they love gay people but they are sinners and don't deserve the same rights, I think that is intolerance just the same.

No problem, I totally understand where you are coming from.

I try to focus on my own sins instead of on those of others. I have done plenty of things to keep me occupied for the foreseeable future. LOL!

Incidentally, I support equal right in terms of health coverage, survivor benefits, etc. for homosexual people. I don’t see how denying rights to people has anything to do with whether or not you “approve” of someone’s lifestyle. I believe it would be pretty hypocritical of me to deny rights to a homosexual couple but be OK with giving them to other people who have sinned (say, for example, adulterers or for a better example, myself).

 

[jodifla]

Last night I was talking with a guy who lives with his partner in North Carolina. He said that they had to plant large trees outside of their home to drown out the shouts of "qu**r" and "fa**ot" that the neighbors would hurl from their car windows. Someone put a used condom in their mailbox. My friend likes his home and does not want to move, but admitted that he sometimes feel scared when he is getting his mail and a car is coming. For the record, this is a masculine, well built 41 year old man. He said that they don't fly gay pride flags and keep to themselves, but the neighbors don't like two men living together. Listening to his story made me very sad.

There is no doubt about it, there are gay and lesbian people living in fear for their safety in this country. Not all gay people live in a progressive urban environment, not should they have to.

And this is exactly the problem with hateful speech...people start to feel threatened.

It's a fine line between free speech and harassment sometimes.

 

[auntpolly]

Incidentally, I support equal right in terms of health coverage, survivor benefits, etc. for homosexual people. .

That's great!