Certfied Toyota...found out too late that it was wrecked

[maleficentmom]

I was sold a certified pre-owned 2008 Toyota minivan from a Toyota dealership in 2010.There was no damage listed on carfax report.I paid $17,000 plus tax and $1000 for Platinum extended warranty. A few days later the sliding door panel popped off(dealer fixed).Later I had issues with the door not opening as easily as it should,also shut on my child and me and after it squeezed, it then opened...and that window will not go down as much as in the other door(by several inches). The dealership lied to me about door,saying it would be $300 plus to tear down to find problem,plus the fix...they refused to call warranty company to check if tear down might be covered if the problem they found was covered.Found out that the tear down was really only $40ish,at that dealership and another one.Wondered why they acted so strange about it...Eventually took van to another dealership and the mechanic said "The whole side of the van has been torn out...paint from front passenger door back isn't even Toyota paint,has "orange peel" in it" ".The mechanic was so freaked that the van was sold to me certified that he reran the carfax,thinking I had missed something...he advised me to report to Toyota.For the past few months we have went back and forth with dealership, they will basically "give me a good deal on my trade for another vehicle" (uh-huh)...or will fix my van and give some oil changes free(at a place I wouldn't trust again). What would you do if you were in my shoes?...Just keep van and learn a hard lesson(ALWAYS take vehicle to another place for inspection..although my regular guy didn't notice anything when he changed oil he said)no matter what the carfax or dealership says!!!...or would you try to trade, be compensated in some way???Any advice is appreciated!!!!!I would just like to swap out for an unwrecked van,but I think they won't.....ps..I know you should always have the car inspected,but I thought they weren't allowed to sell a vehicle that had anything more than very minor dings/etc. and certify it,so it just didn't occur to me

 

[neatokimmo]

I was sold a certified pre-owned 2008 Toyota minivan from a Toyota dealership in 2010.There was no damage listed on carfax report.I paid $17,000 plus tax and $1000 for Platinum extended warranty. A few days later the sliding door panel popped off(dealer fixed).Later I had issues with the door not opening as easily as it should,also shut on my child and me and after it squeezed, it then opened...and that window will not go down as much as in the other door(by several inches). The dealership lied to me about door,saying it would be $300 plus to tear down to find problem,plus the fix...they refused to call warranty company to check if tear down might be covered if the problem they found was covered.Found out that the tear down was really only $40ish,at that dealership and another one.Wondered why they acted so strange about it...Eventually took van to another dealership and the mechanic said "The whole side of the van has been torn out...paint from front passenger door back isn't even Toyota paint,has "orange peel" in it" ".The mechanic was so freaked that the van was sold to me certified that he reran the carfax,thinking I had missed something...he advised me to report to Toyota.For the past few months we have went back and forth with dealership, they will basically "give me a good deal on my trade for another vehicle" (uh-huh)...or will fix my van and give some oil changes free(at a place I wouldn't trust again). What would you do if you were in my shoes?...Just keep van and learn a hard lesson(ALWAYS take vehicle to another place for inspection..although my regular guy didn't notice anything when he changed oil he said)no matter what the carfax or dealership says!!!...or would you try to trade, be compensated in some way???Any advice is appreciated!!!!!I would just like to swap out for an unwrecked van,but I think they won't.

I would report them to Toyota and ask for their advice. They might go after the dealer for you. Since it is certified, it has a warranty right? Can you lemon law it?

 

[maleficentmom]

think the certfied part of warranty now just covers powertrain.,but I purchased extended also which is sort of like bumper to bumper but a bit less comprehensive..sorry, I meant that I have contacted toyota, and the people I have spoke with acted like I was perfectly within my rights of wanting the situation corrected...but so far they just contact the dealership and tell the sales manager to handle it.He of course never calls us back,and when we go there just tries to sell me something for $5000 plus more...he did give us what seemed like a good deal on a new van,but the only one remotely in my price range was very stripped down and actually very cheap looking inside compared to mine and was less power...I just feel funny about me having to trade anything(but maybe even or close to even with them...if I were going to spend that much extra I would rather go somewhere else)...I don't know anything about lemon laws????...neatokimmo,hi!!aren't you a fellow East TN diser?...great to hear from a local person!

 

[neatokimmo]

think the certfied part of warranty now just covers powertrain.,but I purchased extended also which is sort of like bumper to bumper but a bit less comprehensive..sorry, I meant that I have contacted toyota, and the people I have spoke with acted like I was perfectly within my rights of wanting the situation corrected...but so far they just contact the dealership and tell the sales manager to handle it.He of course never calls us back,and when we go there just tries to sell me something for $5000 plus more...he did give us what seemed like a good deal on a new van,but the only one remotely in my price range was very stripped down and actually very cheap looking inside compared to mine and was less power...I just feel funny about me having to trade anything(but maybe even or close to even with them...if I were going to spend that much extra I would rather go somewhere else)...I don't know anything about lemon laws????...neatokimmo,hi!!aren't you a fellow East TN diser?...great to hear from a local person!

I am

Have you thought about stepping it up and calling the paper?

I thought a lemon law was when a car was under some kind of warranty and the same issue crept up like your door. I am not sure how that works with certified, did Toyota say anything about it?

 

[maleficentmom]

I am

Have you thought about stepping it up and calling the paper?

I thought a lemon law was when a car was under some kind of warranty and the same issue crept up like your door. I am not sure how that works with certified, did Toyota say anything about it?

well,I have thought of the BBB.....I think maybe lemon law is issues w/a manufacturers defect...mine is from the previous wreck,and I think the warranty won't cover the problems since they were due to accident(my guess is this is why the original dealers service lied to me..they realized"oops,this thing has been wrecked and one of our mechanics certified it")...I told the Toyota people(I have a case number with them,guess it is customer service) that I just feel like I didn't get what I paid for and I would be happy if the dealership would swap me out an identical van with similar miles (but of course unwrecked)...they told me they felt this was totally reasonable...but I don't know how much say they have in the dealership that is individually owned...They also didn't give me a spare key(they would sell me one for $100 or so as they are microchipped..and I had to beg for an opener,even though the other dealership said I should have gotten these items w/out asking..so the experience has been ugly from the get go....Thanks for your advice!

 

[akcire]

I had a similar experience with a different manufacturer. I had a service manager repeatedly tell me the problem with my 2 month old car with 4,000 miles was that it needed new spark plugs. The first time they replaced the spark plugs, the second time he told me they were no longer under warranty, and more over I owed them $200 for diagnostics. Keep in mind the car had a 3 year warranty and was purchased 2-3 months prior at this dealership. He then told me that if he was wrong "he would put hot sauce on my engine and eat it"; think he would have said that to a man?

I am still waiting for him to make good on his promise to eat the engine. I had to get the district manager from the manufacturer involved so I could get my car back. (Service manager refused to release without the $200 diagnostic charge). I then had it towed to another dealership, who fixed the problem a bad sensor in the engine (not the spark plugs).

I did fax a copy of the receipt to the service managers attention and followed up with a phone call to see when he would like me to bring the car by so he could "eat the engine". It has been 8 years and I have not heard back from him. Since this was the 5th car we had purchased at this dealership I took the time to have a long conversation with the owner, explaining why we would never do business with them in the future.

The district manager for the manufacturer was very helpful. I would suggest that you try and get Toyota to provide you a similar contact. The other option would be to threaten bad press, here in Chicago there is a column called The Problem Solver, I am sure you have something similar locally.

Good luck, car stuff can be suck a pain!

 

[dawson5]

I thought Lemon Law was for new vehicles. Same problem fixed "x" amount of times within a short time period. Always save the receipts for your repair orders. We have a file folder, I've seen some people put them in the owners manual in the glove box. They should have dates on them and descriptions of what your problem(s) with the car are. This is handy if you ever have an issue that might be Lemon Law. Some people are shady and will try to hide things like that, this should back you up.

Did you pull the carfax or did the dealership? If the dealership pulled it, I would wonder how they could cover up something like that or if they did. Was it pulled right in front of you? Have you gone to car-fax to see if it was there and they tried to cover it up? There is always the possibility that they bought it at an auction, did what is required to make it certified pre-owned (when you look at the check-list for that, it really isn't that much) and put it on the lot. There is the possibility that they are/were just as duped as you were.

They should be trying to make this right with you.

ETA: This is the pre-owned checklist:

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/shopping/cpo/images/toyota-inspection.pdf

It looks to be a visual inspection. What you are describing might not be apparent on the outside (even the underbody). I am thinking if you bought this from a Toyota dealership, they probably didn't take in the car or do the repair work. I can't fathom a dealership that deals with Toyota's putting the wrong paint on a car.

 

[DawnM]

There has to be some law on the books about this sort of thing. Did you print out the carfax report so they cant' go in and change it later and say you were wrong?

I would threaten a lawsuit and demand full reimbursement for the vehicle. If they don't do it, I would sue. THEY misrepresented the vehicle and lied to you. If they didn't check it carefully they lied by ommission.

I am pretty sure you have a case here.

And you have just reminded me again why DH is so leary of buying used vehicles. He prefers to buy new and run them into the ground.

 

[Swimalie]

Do you totally trust the 2nd guy who says it's been repaired? We are in the process of selling our 2000 Honda. We bought it at 13 months old. It was in great shape and has not been in any accidents with us and, as far as we know, none from the private guy we bought it from. We had it inspected before buying and there was no evidence of any damage. Now we took the car to Car Max to see what a baseline price should be for it. They are claiming the driver's front quarter panel and the driver's rear door have been replaced after 2 different wrecks. Nope. No wrecks for the car. So I would even take what the 2nd guys says with a grain of salt and see if a 3rd opinion would be worth it.

 

[RadioFanatic]

I would contact the newspaper and take him to court.

 

[EllenFrasier]

Do you have an Attorney General in your state? Sorry, I'm not sure if all states have them. My husband has contacted our Atty Gen. several times for different issues - he handles when businesses are committing fraud.

 

[msmayor]

Remember that a CarFax report is ONLY as good as the information that has actually been reported to the service.

You could be looking at a car that has had meticulous service, with every oil change done at 3,000 miles and every recommended service done, but the CarFax only shows 3 service records. Why? Because not every garage/mechanic reports when they do a service to CarFax.

Same with an accident. If (as so many people do) the parties didn't go through the process of filing a police report, and the body damage was repaired by a shop that didn't report to CarFax, the accident will NOT show up on the car's history.

 

[lucyem]

I would contact a lawyer and have the lawyer make some phone calls to the dealership. Sometimes that helps wake them up to the fact you are serious about taking this to the next level. A lawyer could also help you with laws in your state about this type of situation.

 

[cassandrap83]

I was sold a certified pre-owned 2008 Toyota minivan from a Toyota dealership in 2010.There was no damage listed on carfax report.I paid $17,000 plus tax and $1000 for Platinum extended warranty. A few days later the sliding door panel popped off(dealer fixed).Later I had issues with the door not opening as easily as it should,also shut on my child and me and after it squeezed, it then opened...and that window will not go down as much as in the other door(by several inches). The dealership lied to me about door,saying it would be $300 plus to tear down to find problem,plus the fix...they refused to call warranty company to check if tear down might be covered if the problem they found was covered.Found out that the tear down was really only $40ish,at that dealership and another one.Wondered why they acted so strange about it...Eventually took van to another dealership and the mechanic said "The whole side of the van has been torn out...paint from front passenger door back isn't even Toyota paint,has "orange peel" in it" ".The mechanic was so freaked that the van was sold to me certified that he reran the carfax,thinking I had missed something...he advised me to report to Toyota.For the past few months we have went back and forth with dealership, they will basically "give me a good deal on my trade for another vehicle" (uh-huh)...or will fix my van and give some oil changes free(at a place I wouldn't trust again). What would you do if you were in my shoes?...Just keep van and learn a hard lesson(ALWAYS take vehicle to another place for inspection..although my regular guy didn't notice anything when he changed oil he said)no matter what the carfax or dealership says!!!...or would you try to trade, be compensated in some way???Any advice is appreciated!!!!!I would just like to swap out for an unwrecked van,but I think they won't.....ps..I know you should always have the car inspected,but I thought they weren't allowed to sell a vehicle that had anything more than very minor dings/etc. and certify it,so it just didn't occur to me

It is not the dealership's fault that there was no accident information on the carfax. They don't take panels off cars when they get them to make sure it hasn't been in an accident.

Your big problem will come when you go to trade in your van & the carfax info is on there (it has to be reported now), so I think it is a good deal that the dealership will buy back your car at fair-trade price & exchange it for another.

 

[Lewisc]

It is not the dealership's fault that there was no accident information on the carfax. They don't take panels off cars when they get them to make sure it hasn't been in an accident.

Your big problem will come when you go to trade in your van & the carfax info is on there (it has to be reported now), so I think it is a good deal that the dealership will buy back your car at fair-trade price & exchange it for another.

The OP said one window doesn't go down as far as the window on the other side and a professional noticed one side of the car was painted and the color of the paint was a little off. A trained person would know the car had body work done without having to remove a panel.

The OP needs to find out exactly what's allowed under Toyota's certified policy. If the policy says a car with a replaced panel doesn't qualify the OP has grounds to complain. Otherwise they OP may be out of luck. It sounds like they've had the car at least 90 days.

 

[jmartinez1895]

I would contact the BBB, the attorney general's office and a local attorney. The attorney can at least look over your paper work and tell you if you what your rights are under your local laws. Be sure to do something fast tho because the longer you wait the harder it will be.

 

[dawson5]

After rereading the OP, it sounds like you bought the carfax report and it wasn't listed. You take it in now and the mechanic pulls the carfax report and it shows it on there now? I would find more information about that wreck. Also, a little googling comes up with this:

http://www.carfax.com/manifest/bbg/termsConditions.cfx

Did you register your report? If you did and it is less than 1 year later, it sounds like CarFax will buy your car.

 

[Lewisc]

In order to qualify as a Toyota Certified Used Vehicles a 160 point inspection is performed. These points may be applicable to the OP:

Vehicle is free of improper paint repairs or mismatched color
Inspect panel alignment and fit

The fact that the car had body work done doesn't disqualify the car from the program.

 

[mamajo]

I would demand a full refund as the vehicle was sold not as represented (clean car fax). Then, I would go elsewhere to buy a vehicle. Do not dicker with them. Tell them the deal is totally off and if they don't refund, you will be seeking a lawyer, Toyota and the BBB. They are giving you the runaround and you are entitled to a fix to this.

 

[MomToOne]

In order to qualify as a Toyota Certified Used Vehicles a 160 point inspection is performed. These points may be applicable to the OP:

Vehicle is free of improper paint repairs or mismatched color
Inspect panel alignment and fit

The fact that the car had body work done doesn't disqualify the car from the program.

The inspection also includes:

FRAME, STRUCTURE & UNDERBODY
Frame/Unibody check
Inspect body surface

Now, admittedly, that is vague - once they inspect it and find an issue, they don't spell out in the criteria whether or not that that is grounds to keep it from being certified (funny how these criteria are written like that, but others are written as "Free of xyz". Hmmmm....). But Toyota sure as heck implies that you will get a wreck-free vehicle with their "Our goal is to ensure that every TCUV has that like-new look and feel" statement. Although even that is vague once you look past the marketing-talk - "look and feel"? I mean come on - things can "look and feel new" with extensive hidden damage! I have to say I am completely unimpressed with the whole 160 point inspection bit now that I look at it.

If the dealership that had sold the car did the proper body surface inspection, they should have noted the side replacement. Since another dealership caught it, I believe it should have been caught by any dealership.

I say go with calling the consumer reporters for local TV stations if you have any, otherwise take them to small claims court to cover at least proper repairs.