CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yeah, we're seeing that same issue within our state. In a reaction piece about the governor's announcement that everyone will be eligible as of April 5, health authorities in counties around the Detroit area were sort of stunned and a touch horrified because they're still not getting enough supply for the groups already eligible, while some health authorities from northern counties were very excited and said they cannot get enough people to fill their current availability under the existing rules. It seems like it would make more sense to balance those supplies rather than have some counties vaccinating healthy high schoolers while others are still struggling to get seniors and essential workers covered, particularly since the vaccine refusal rates vary quite a bit between rural and urban residents so even opening it up to everyone isn't likely to create a flood of demand in some of the more skeptical places.

And the same would probably apply from state to state, considering how closely attitudes about the vaccine track political views. But I don't think we'll start to see conversations about redirecting supply until a month or so into the "everyone is eligible" effort because it has too much potential to become a political hot-button. In my state, attempts to improve vaccination efforts in underserved communities are already causing controversy, and redirecting unused supplies from rural communities where the politics of grievance rule the day to urban areas where people actually want to be vaccinated is sure to stir up a hornet's nest.

In KS our governor has given counties flexibility to move around in each Phase but does not want nor condone counties to move into a different phase before a certain point. As they described it you don't have to move lock step with everyone in so much as the tiers but you shouldn't be moving on in phases. Sooooo that recently caused some political lawmakers in the rural parts (which got a lot more supply early on) to be upset and want to pushback against the governor to force her to allow them to move on in Phase 3 and she's pushing back saying "we should be ready in a few weeks". Excess vaccine supply for counties who have completed Phase 2 are being redirected to counties that are still working on Phase 2. That said I don't know if the residents themselves are upset or if it's just politics being politics simply because of who are governor is. Our governor in her words "fears if one county moves forward alone, people from surrounding areas will seek a COVID-19 vaccine there and create some confusion or chaos." And honestly she's not wrong. We've seen in occur in MO when KC and STL weren't getting vaccines people were driving hours to get it in rural parts, we've seen it in other states too. BUT with this May 1st thing..dunno what's going to happen with that.

I don't think anyone in my state is upset necessarily with underserved communities at least I haven't heard any rumblings if we're talking about minorities, homeless, disabled or otherwise. The county above me that had started with high risk high contact workers before 65+ are now having walk up appointments for those 65+....which makes sense considering they have a higher minority population. They went after protecting their most vulnerable members first and they are all still in Phase 2 so they didn't do anything they weren't supposed to. The governor just came back from that county and praised them for their efforts in getting equal access opportunities. Her words were: "If we learn enough from you, then we can take this on the road and make sure that all communities are approaching the vaccination in a way that ensures everybody has access in a fair and equitable manner.”

That said the governor is about to have an announcement today. My guess is related to when we'll move onto Phase 3 but we'll see.

You're probably right about the timing about discussion with redirecting between states. If I look at what a PP mentioned above MS they have about the same population as my state and roughly (or close to in respects to the larger picture) amount of total doses administered. But they are moving to 18+..it is because they are getting more doses than we are, it is because they have run out of interest level and now can cover more people more broadly? IDK.

 

[Ariel484]

So I too got the vaccine earlier than expected (through work) and felt very conflicted about it. This NYT article helped me feel better about deciding to get it (plus the fact that I have a 2-year-old who will get the vaccine...next year? Never??).

I'll paste the text for anyone who can't get to the website...note that it is from January, so it was written when we didn't have the J&J vaccine yet:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/opinion/covid-vaccine-ethics.html
Opinion
If You’re Offered a Vaccine, Take It
Declining a Covid-19 shot because you think it should go to someone else won’t help anyone.
By Melinda Wenner Moyer
Ms. Wenner Moyer is a science and health writer.
Jan. 21, 2021

Last week, as friends of mine learned they would soon be eligible for a Covid-19 vaccination, I received a slew of angst-ridden text messages. A teacher who sees students only once a week wondered if she should wait so teachers who were more at risk could get a shot first. A friend with a health condition who is mostly able to stay home and isolate pondered letting her dose go to someone more deserving. On social media, I stumbled across posts from friends who are eligible for vaccination but could not get appointments — and who were angry that others they knew, whom they considered lower risk, had already been inoculated.

As more and more Americans become eligible for Covid-19 vaccines despite their limited supply, deciding whether to take an available shot has turned into a moral quandary. There’s no question that vaccine access has been inequitable across parts of the country. But many medical ethicists agree: If you are eligible for a vaccination, you should get it, no matter how worthy — or unworthy — you feel.

“If they call you to get vaccinated, you should go,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethicist and the founding director of the division of medical ethics at New York University’s Grossman School of Medicine.

There are a number of reasons to get a shot if it’s offered to you. For one thing, there’s no reason to believe that if you forgo your dose, it will go to someone with a higher risk.

“As we’re finding out, that’s not really the way the vaccine allocation systems are being set up,” said Debjani Mukherjee, a psychologist and a medical ethicist at Weill Cornell Medical College. Many vaccines are being distributed by institutions that can’t transfer extra doses elsewhere or to specific populations, explained Kyle Ferguson, a medical ethicist at the Grossman School of Medicine.

Put another way, it’s entirely possible that the vaccination you decline will be given to someone at lower risk than you. Worse, it could get thrown away if it’s not injected into someone’s arm before it goes bad. Discarded doses do no one any good — which is why, after a freezer broke in a Northern California hospital, administrators violated state guidelines and offered the shots to everyone they could, regardless of eligibility.

So the belief that turning down a vaccination or waiting to get it will somehow benefit society — “I think it is just outright false,” Dr. Ferguson said. There’s a “delusion of moral purity and keeping one’s hands clean that’s at work when people are tempted to do that.”

If you turn down a vaccination based on the belief that you’re not particularly high risk, you might also be fooling yourself. It’s difficult for people to accurately measure their own risk level; research has shown that people underestimate their risk in all kinds of situations. These optimistic biases, as they are called, often lead people to perceive, wrongly, that public health campaigns are more relevant to others than to themselves.

In other words, the notion that other people need vaccination more than you do may simply be a product of irrationally optimistic thinking. After all, the science on Covid-19 is not yet fully understood, and it is evolving rapidly, especially given the emergence of variants of the virus.

When you get a vaccination, you’re not the only person who benefits, either. Scientists aren’t yet sure how much vaccination thwarts the transmission of Covid-19, but preliminary data suggests that it reduces spread to a degree. When you get the shot, then, you’re not only protecting your own health; you’re also likely slowing the spread of infection in your community and reducing the chance of overwhelming hospitals. In addition, if you are inoculated and friends or family members fall ill with Covid-19, you are better able to care for them, since you probably won’t get sick.

Still, people may yell at you for getting a shot when you’re eligible if they feel you don’t deserve it as much as they or their loved ones do. And you may not be able to appease them with rational answers. Deep down, individuals who are angry about unfair vaccine allocation are upset at the system, and understandably so. In that situation, you’re just an easy scapegoat. “I think the best thing to do in a situation like that would be to say that you care for that person and hope they get the chance soon, too,” Dr. Ferguson said.

It’s important not to conflate the systemic problems plaguing vaccine rollout with the choices we make as individuals within this flawed system. Even if you feel it’s unethical that you have been offered a vaccine, that doesn’t mean it’s unethical for you to accept it. You’re not going to fix the broken system by opting out of it. If anything, you might make the situation worse.

 

[DLgal]

So I too got the vaccine earlier than expected )through work) and felt very conflicted about it. This NYT article helped me feel better about deciding to get it (plus the fact that I have a 2-year-old who will get the vaccine...next year? Never??).

I'll paste the text for anyone who can't get to the website...note that it is from January, so it was written when we didn't have the J&J vaccine yet:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/opinion/covid-vaccine-ethics.html
Opinion
If You’re Offered a Vaccine, Take It
Declining a Covid-19 shot because you think it should go to someone else won’t help anyone.
By Melinda Wenner Moyer
Ms. Wenner Moyer is a science and health writer.
Jan. 21, 2021

Thanks for sharing.

I actually knew about this loophole in January, but I didn't jump at the opportunity then because I really felt strongly about letting ACTUAL Healthcare workers go first, and it was a real problem in our county for the first month to get those people vaccinated.

But it's been 2 months and our state is doing all kinds of ridiculous "equity" gymnastics and continues changing the tiers for who is eligible and when, and you know...enough is enough.

When I logged into the CVS page this morning and saw literally dozens and dozens of available appointments this week, I booked one. I'm not going to feel bad about it. The appointments are there for people in eligible tiers.

 

[piglet1979]

I got the vaccine earlier as well because my company works closely with the school sin the area. The largest school in the area and the one we work the closest with had extra doses and reached out to my company to see if we were interested. We had 30 minutes to reply to the email we got nd there were no guarantees. I got the call at 3:30 and got the vaccine at 3:30.

 

[Mango7100]

Yeah, we're seeing that same issue within our state. In a reaction piece about the governor's announcement that everyone will be eligible as of April 5, health authorities in counties around the Detroit area were sort of stunned and a touch horrified because they're still not getting enough supply for the groups already eligible, while some health authorities from northern counties were very excited and said they cannot get enough people to fill their current availability under the existing rules. It seems like it would make more sense to balance those supplies rather than have some counties vaccinating healthy high schoolers while others are still struggling to get seniors and essential workers covered, particularly since the vaccine refusal rates vary quite a bit between rural and urban residents so even opening it up to everyone isn't likely to create a flood of demand in some of the more skeptical places.

And the same would probably apply from state to state, considering how closely attitudes about the vaccine track political views. But I don't think we'll start to see conversations about redirecting supply until a month or so into the "everyone is eligible" effort because it has too much potential to become a political hot-button. In my state, attempts to improve vaccination efforts in underserved communities are already causing controversy, and redirecting unused supplies from rural communities where the politics of grievance rule the day to urban areas where people actually want to be vaccinated is sure to stir up a hornet's nest.

Agree. At least in TN the rural counties can’t give it away—it is very much tracked to political viewpoints. Our urban area is doing pretty good compared to some of the other cities in my state. A lot of people in the urban areas are driving to rural counties and getting vaccinated quickly. In the last 2 weeks, the availability of appointments has opened quite a bit. If you look at other sources outside the county health departments, you can get an appointment within a few days. We started 16-64 with conditions last week, that seems to be the last group that has high demand for vaccination. I feel like after that, we will abandon our tiers of various essential workers and just open it up.

 

[Farro]

Hey, any veterans in Chicago who get their healthcare through the VA- VA hospital (Jesse Brown) is now open to all veterans of any age for vaccinations! Micky was able to call and schedule his two shots! The VA schedules Pfizer 17 days apart instead of 21, which I thought was weird?


Loading…

www.chicago.va.gov

 

[Donaldswife]

Hey, any veterans in Chicago who get their healthcare through the VA- VA hospital (Jesse Brown) is now open to all veterans of any age for vaccinations! Micky was able to call and schedule his two shots! The VA schedules Pfizer 17 days apart instead of 21, which I thought was weird?


Loading…

www.chicago.va.gov

I know Pfizer has said there is a 4 day "window" on the 21 day dosage that they can get it before, so 17 days lines up with that!

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Soooo...I'm out of the clinical trial. I called before my appointment to get some clarification on the protocol since what I was told didn't match the consent form. I didn't want to drive all that way in the rain for nothing.

Basically I was originally told it was a 1 dose vs 2 dose trial, but the paperwork said it was 2 real doses or 2 placebos. They indicated they are trying to get permission to alter the protocol and drop the placebo, BUT it is pending review and it will be several weeks until they get an answer, although they expect to get approval for the change. The study doctor said if I enroll, there is a 50/50 chance I will end up with placebos, and if they alter the protocol, they will call placebo recipients back for the real shot and randomly assign them to either the 1 or 2 shot protocol. And then the clock starts over.

I had already decided not to sign up for a placebo controlled trial at this point in time, while we already have 3 approved vaccines on the market. And since there is no timeline of when they might make this change, I bowed out.

PLUS, I found out that I qualify to get the vaccine as a "healthcare worker" due to being the primary caregiver of children with developmental and intellectual disabilities. The state Department of Developmental Services put out a letter clarifying that eligibility. I found an appointment at CVS this Friday for the first Pfizer shot. I also already scheduled the second for April 10.

My daughter is getting vaccinated on the same dates! I understand what you mean about feeling weird about it. She is a ballet teacher to young children and it felt like a grey area. Thankfully the state updated their "childcare" descriptions and she fully qualifies, confirmed by our county, so feeling better about it.

Now I just wait to get official paperwork from my kids' school that I'll be working there and I can get mine. DH should be in the next age group eligible. Getting there.

 

[punkin]

I wonder if I qualify as a Healthcare worker if I provide primary care to my 76 yo FIL with alzheimer's?

 

[Katiebird]

My daughter is getting vaccinated on the same dates! I understand what you mean about feeling weird about it. She is a ballet teacher to young children and it felt like a grey area. Thankfully the state updated their "childcare" descriptions and she fully qualifies, confirmed by our county, so feeling better about it.

Now I just wait to get official paperwork from my kids' school that I'll be working there and I can get mine. DH should be in the next age group eligible. Getting there.

Is there a state link with the childcare details? My google-fu is failing me. I would feel so much more comfortable if my kids' ballet teachers could get vaccinated.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I wonder if I qualify as a Healthcare worker if I provide primary care to my 76 yo FIL with alzheimer's?

I think it depends on the state and possibly even the county. I know some places put a stop to including them because people were exploiting the elderly to get one (basically offering to take them to also qualify for the vaccine).

I would suggest looking up your county/state guidelines and reaching out to somebody at your county offices.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Is there a state link with the childcare details? My google-fu is failing me. I would feel so much more comfortable if my kids' ballet teachers could get vaccinated.

They qualify under the informal childcare workers according to my county. Our younger ballet teachers (those who haven’t qualified by age) have all gone through CVS - they just pick childcare/education.

(Scroll down to 1B eligibility)

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/VaccineAllocationGuidelines.aspx

 

[Katiebird]

They qualify under the informal childcare workers according to my county. Our younger ballet teachers (those who haven’t qualified by age) have all gone through CVS - they just pick childcare/education.

(Scroll down to 1B eligibility)

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/VaccineAllocationGuidelines.aspx
View attachment 562756

Doh, how did I miss that?! Thank you!!

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Doh, how did I miss that?! Thank you!!

No problem! They updated it very quietly last Friday, which makes think there were a bunch in the same boat since the previous guidelines were so vague.

Just to clarify further, dance teachers would be "private recreation programs'

 

[Jonfw2]

Man, it’s almost as if vaccine eligibility is opening up everywhere!

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Man, it’s almost as if vaccine eligibility is opening up everywhere!

Well not everywhere

But it is good some places have

 

[Jonfw2]

Well not everywhere

But it is good some places have

In the words of the voice coming from the end of the hall: “it’s coming”.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Man, it’s almost as if vaccine eligibility is opening up everywhere!

It's not really. It's not moving any faster in CA - they just clarified already in place eligibility. And added 16-64 with certain (strict) underlying conditions - and unlike other states, our state is only including BMI of 40+ (although counties may differ). The current expectations is that 50-64 will become eligible middle/end of April. So it's still hard to believe that we'll have all adults actually vaccinated before summer. Especially when the next two weeks of distribution is going to MUCH smaller than anticipated. Our county spots are only doing second doses right now.

We do have Blue Shield taking over coordination state wide, which is a mess, but will hopefully right itself and smooth delivery.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Don't feel apprehensive about being eligible for the vaccine

If your time is called go for it!

It's like the 4-way stop here, if everyone keeps waiving people on by you're never going to get to go so take it when you can

 

[Heigh-Ho]

It's not really.

Yes, this. It may be like a domino effect in the end but it's not like the door was thrown open here right now, maybe it will though.

And I have to say it's a good thing if people are choosing to get vaccinated and places have the supply so they are just moving on nicely. It's not a victory to me if the reason it's open up is because people are choosing not to get vaccinated. It's not something I'm going to celebrate beyond being happy for people who want it who were able to get it. I'll celebrate when our country and other countries have high vaccination rates per their population because that's the real victory.