CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[JLemaire7]

I asked my husband about the link to birth control as I suspected the same thing given the gender and age range that this was happening in. He said the vaccine seems to be creating excess platelets as an immune response which is causing the clotting. He said birth control doesn’t do that and can cause clots but for other reasons. I listened to the FDA press conference and they seemed to say the same thing. The FDA said that Moderna and Pfizer did not cause blood clots. In any case I do agree that anyone who was on the fence about any of these vaccines may not want to get it.

 

[DLgal]

I asked my husband about the link to birth control as I suspected the same thing given the gender and age range that this was happening in. He said the vaccine seems to be creating excess platelets as an immune response which is causing the clotting. He said birth control doesn’t do that and can cause clots but for other reasons. I listened to the FDA press conference and they seemed to say the same thing. The FDA said that Moderna and Pfizer did not cause blood clots. In any case I do agree that anyone who was on the fence about any of these vaccines may not want to get it.

This particular syndrome is a combination of blood clots with corresponding LOW platelets. It's a rare situation that can happen spontaneously after viral infections or in patients receiving heparin.

It is different from the mechanism that causes blood clots to form from hormonal birth control pills.

However, it seems women of childbearing age are more susceptible to CVST/SVT with low platelets, and it seems to have something to do with antibodies mistakingly attacking blood cells. Women, in general, have stronger immune systems than men and have stronger vaccine immune responses than men as well. This seems to be a rare case of a hyper immune reaction. I wonder if these women would have also developed clots if they were infected with Covid-19. They likely would have.

These types of clots are happening at a rate of 165,000 per million in Covid patients. So far, with J&J, we are at a rate of approximately 6 in 4 million shots given. So, the risk of this syndrome happening is obviously much higher in actual covid infection.

It should be noted, this is a treatable condition which is good.

I think the pause for review is a GOOD SIGN that our vaccine safety monitoring system is WORKING as intended. This should make people feel more confident, not less. I imagine there will be a change in who receives this vaccine going forward.

 

[Mango7100]

I have 5 employees who are eligible to get the vaccine. None of them scheduled a vaccination until I told them that people who are unvaccinated will continue to wear masks once the mandate is lifted. Being able to work without a mask is a big motivator, especially as it gets warmer.

Initially, I offered them 2 days off for each vaccination and a $500 bonus after they were fully vaccinated and this wasn’t enough of a motivator.

You are a very nice boss! $500 and 4 days off wasn’t enough of a motivator?? That is very surprising to me

 

[Mango7100]

This particular syndrome is a combination of blood clots with corresponding LOW platelets. It's a rare situation that can happen spontaneously after viral infections or in patients receiving heparin.

It is different from the mechanism that causes blood clots to form from hormonal birth control pills.

However, it seems women of childbearing age are more susceptible to CVST/SVT with low platelets, and it seems to have something to do with antibodies mistakingly attacking blood cells. Women, in general, have stronger immune systems than men and have stronger vaccine immune responses than men as well. This seems to be a rare case of a hyper immune reaction. I wonder if these women would have also developed clots if they were infected with Covid-19. They likely would have.

These types of clots are happening at a rate of 165,000 per million in Covid patients. So far, with J&J, we are at a rate of approximately 6 in 4 million shots given. So, the risk of this syndrome happening is obviously much higher in actual covid infection.

It should be noted, this is a treatable condition which is good.

I think the pause for review is a GOOD SIGN that our vaccine safety monitoring system is WORKING as intended. This should make people feel more confident, not less. I imagine there will be a change in who receives this vaccine going forward.

Yes. The blood clotting issue is immune mediated and not related to estrogen birth control pills. It so happens that women are more at risk (as they are with blood clotting issues in general). All 6 cases were in women 18-48, but there was one fatality and one in critical condition. I think it is prudent to pause for a few days and assess. They may end up recommending J and J for a specific population group (men, older women). This is worrisome though because I think a lot of younger people liked the idea of J and J being one shot (maybe don’t miss as much work), good for vaccine clinics at colleges, etc.

If J and J gets a scarlet letter so to speak, it could be very bad for increasing vaccine hesitancy. We really need to get as many vaccinated as possible quickly. In the long run, Moderna and Pfizer supply (plus potentially Novavax later, they are doing a cross over study right now) should be more than enough to meet demand in the future and for probable boosters. I don’t think Astra Zeneca will get approved in the US, and we frankly don’t need it. Too much bad press.

 

[lifesavacation]

You are a very nice boss! $500 and 4 days off wasn’t enough of a motivator?? That is very surprising to me

I was really surprised it wasn’t enough. I did ask two employees why they hadn’t scheduled and both said the vaccines don’t work against variants so what’s the point. I tried to tell them that they do help reduce the likelihood that you will get severely sick, but they either didn’t believe me or they didn’t care.

The whole situation is pretty frustrating actually. We are in manufacturing, but do have a small retail shop for customers to buy direct and we’ve kept the retail shop closed to protect our employees. I opened it last week. If they aren’t going to protect themselves then I’m not going worry about their contact with customers.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

You are a very nice boss! $500 and 4 days off wasn’t enough of a motivator?? That is very surprising to me

It could have been they thought the days off wasn't a big deal like I mean if you've got side effects from the vaccine bad enough you shouldn't go into work anyways so maybe they thought "if I get it and it's hitting me hard I'll just call in anyways". I know companies are offering time off but that could just be seen as proactive. Just speaking about PR if your employee is running a fever, aches and chills, arm is sore (especially if it's physical work) not allowing them to take time off (not saying that's what the PP's company policy is just saying if a boss said no you can't get it off) is like really bad. Especially when during this whole pandemic the thing was don't go into work if you don't feel well.

Maybe they felt having to wait until they were fully vaccinated (not sure if it meant after the 2nd shot if it was a 2-dose vaccine or after 2 weeks from the last dose depending on if it was a 1 or 2 dose vaccine) wasn't worth it.

But I also wonder though about offering an incentive like not wearing a mask at work when it hasn't been yet advised that vaccinated persons can be around large groups of people or work (especially with manufacturing when that is something that social distancing is usually hard to accomplish) without masks just because of vaccinated status. That sounds like a risky thing to promise when you haven't been given the go-ahead by public health officials to do that.

 

[lifesavacation]

It could have been they thought the days off wasn't a big deal like I mean if you've got side effects from the vaccine bad enough you shouldn't go into work anyways so maybe they thought "if I get it and it's hitting me hard I'll just call in anyways". I know companies are offering time off but that could just be seen as proactive. Just speaking about PR if your employee is running a fever, aches and chills, arm is sore (especially if it's physical work) not allowing them to take time off (not saying that's what the PP's company policy is just saying if a boss said no you can't get it off) is like really bad. Especially when during this whole pandemic the thing was don't go into work if you don't feel well.

Maybe they felt having to wait until they were fully vaccinated (not sure if it meant after the 2nd shot if it was a 2-dose vaccine or after 2 weeks from the last dose depending on if it was a 1 or 2 dose vaccine) wasn't worth it.

But I also wonder though about offering an incentive like not wearing a mask at work when it hasn't been yet advised that vaccinated persons can be around large groups of people or work (especially with manufacturing when that is something that social distancing is usually hard to accomplish) without masks just because of vaccinated status. That sounds like a risky thing to promise when you haven't been given the go-ahead by public health officials to do that.

Not having to wear a mask would be after the mandate has been lifted. Not before. I can still require masks even if no mandate is in place.

 

[Orion Nebula]

Not having to wear a mask would be after the mandate has been lifted. Not before. I can still require masks even if no mandate is required.

I wish mine would, sure the vaccine is going to make things safer. But I would love to see some effort to avoid the common cold & seasonal flu. That has been a really nice bonus the past year. The only time I got sick was from my second shot... lol.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Not having to wear a mask would be after the mandate has been lifted. Not before. I can still require masks even if no mandate is required.

I understand but I wasn't talking about a mandate. I was talking about guidance from the CDC and such. We all know mandates don't always follow that. Sure you can still require it but you've already said "people who are unvaccinated will continue to wear masks once the mandate is lifted." which means you get the vaccine you don't have to wear a mask but only tying it to whether the mandate is there or not. If you still require masks for vaccinated workers after the mandate is gone you've gone back on your word. I just thought it was risky is all because that may not be the public health advice especially in a high risk area like manufacturing where cases spread easily. I understand not wearing a mask can be a motivator for people so I wasn't necessarily talking about that.

 

[godisney14]

These types of clots are happening at a rate of 165,000 per million in Covid patients. So far, with J&J, we are at a rate of approximately 6 in 4 million shots given. So, the risk of this syndrome happening is obviously much higher in actual covid infection.

It should be noted, this is a treatable condition which is good.

Woaw. That is HIGHLY oversimplification of the condition.

Sure, when it’s caught early and the coagulation is small.

The condition isn’t always easily diagnosed. One can report a pulmonary embolism when it’s too late without having had any symptoms beforehand. About half of PE cases are asymptomatic.
Treatment for thrombosis can involve risky thrombolytics or surgery.

 

[DLgal]

Woaw. That is HIGHLY oversimplification of the condition.

Sure, when it’s caught early and the coagulation is small.

The condition isn’t always easily diagnosed. One can report a pulmonary embolism when it’s too late without having had any symptoms beforehand. About half of PE cases are asymptomatic.
Treatment for thrombosis can involve risky thrombolytics or surgery.

I said it is treatable, and it is. That doesn't mean it is never fatal or it is easy to catch. It has an 8% fatality rate when not caught within 48 hours of symptom onset.

This is also not like a pulmonary embolism, which happen in arteries. This syndrome creates clots in the veins of the brain or deep abdomen. Treatment doesn't involve thrombolytics or surgery. It is treated with blood thinners.

 

[lifesavacation]

I understand but I wasn't talking about a mandate. I was talking about guidance from the CDC and such. We all know mandates don't always follow that. Sure you can still require it but you've already said "people who are unvaccinated will continue to wear masks once the mandate is lifted." which means you get the vaccine you don't have to wear a mask but only tying it to whether the mandate is there or not. If you still require masks for vaccinated workers after the mandate is gone you've gone back on your word. I just thought it was risky is all because that may not be the public health advice especially in a high risk area like manufacturing where cases spread easily. I understand not wearing a mask can be a motivator for people so I wasn't necessarily talking about that.

I think I understand your point that mandates don’t necessarily follow CDC guidelines. We’re in WA and it’s been one of the strictest states for mandates. I’m not at all worried whether it’s safe to remove masks after we are vaccinated and still around unvaccinated co workers. We have a 6000 sqft faculty and there’s 7 of us (2 in offices alone, 1 in a paint booth with its own air supply, and the other 4 have at least 1000 sqft of their own space. The policy won’t be risky. It’s penalizing for sure, but not risky.

 

[godisney14]

I said it is treatable, and it is. That doesn't mean it is never fatal or it is easy to catch. It has an 8% fatality rate when not caught within 48 hours of symptom onset.

This is also not like a pulmonary embolism, which happen in arteries. This syndrome creates clots in the veins of the brain or deep abdomen. Treatment doesn't involve thrombolytics or surgery. It is treated with blood thinners.

Maybe you haven’t been following the news, but even the European Medical Agency has acknowledged cases of thrombosis in the arteries leading to pulmonary embolism. There are many cases of PE linked to the AZ vaccine.
Also, there were 4 cases of PE in the J&J clinical trial: one female (30), and four male.

Blood thinners are not the only treatment. That is the case when the thrombus is small enough to not be a concern. Obviously, that wasn’t the case in many of these instances.


So far, almost two dozen deaths are linked to the AZ vaccine. (Similar ratio with J&J so far). I’m sure many of their families hoped it was treatable.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I think I understand your point that mandates don’t necessarily follow CDC guidelines. We’re in WA and it’s been one of the strictest states for mandates. I’m not at all worried whether it’s safe to remove masks after we are vaccinated and still around unvaccinated co workers. We have a 6000 sqft faculty and there’s 7 of us (2 in offices alone, 1 in a paint booth with its own air supply, and the other 4 have at least 1000 sqft of their own space. The policy won’t be risky. It’s penalizing for sure, but not risky.

If it's anything I've learned it's that things change quickly, look at the talks about J&J right now. A strict state may not always stay strict. The odds may work in your favor that the mandate stays for a long time or they may not where the mandate is gone sooner but it's risky no matter what way you look at it. We know that it's much better to have more vaccinated people than not. But we also know some people have gotten covid even while vaccinated and with the particular variants around that may be more common than we originally have liked to have been. That's not yet know how prevalent issues could be in the future. Right now the advice is small groups of vaccinated can meet without social distancing and masks. The advice is to still wear masks, even while vaccinated, in public where mixed vaccinated and unvaccinated should be a given. Workers should be wearing masks still even with their vaccinated status with the present advice.

You can still require masks afterwards but you told them they won't have to wear it if they get vaccinated once the mandate is gone. That's taking a risk as you've given your word. It's not just the size of the place too. Coworkers get together, eat together, have breaks together. They also have lives outside of work. I'm just giving my opinion but I understand why you tried a different method to gain compliance from your workers so I don't mean to say I don't understand. I'll move on from this particular discussion because I don't want you to feel like I'm just bashing you but I appreciate your civil responses back to me

 

[EACarlson]

Only federal sites are even stopping it, I suspect many other sites will keep using it.

I have been told that many privately run sites are stopping use of it now as well.

 

[EACarlson]

But I also wonder though about offering an incentive like not wearing a mask at work when it hasn't been yet advised that vaccinated persons can be around large groups of people or work (especially with manufacturing when that is something that social distancing is usually hard to accomplish) without masks just because of vaccinated status. That sounds like a risky thing to promise when you haven't been given the go-ahead by public health officials to do that.

It has been policy at my office since we came back in June that masks are not required to be worn in your own cubicle or office when alone. To the best of my knowledge there has been 0 transmission inside any of our buildings. The only time we had to wear masks at our desks was the time in November that my son was waiting on test results.

 

[godisney14]

It has been policy at my office since we came back in June that masks are not required to be worn in your own cubicle or office when alone.

If that’s true, then the advice should be to keep the windows open (if any), do not run the HVAC, or use HEPA air filtration (does not have to be medical level HEPA).

 

[Heigh-Ho]

It has been policy at my office since we came back in June that masks are not required to be worn in your own cubicle or office when alone. To the best of my knowledge there has been 0 transmission inside any of our buildings. The only time we had to wear masks at our desks was the time in November that my son was waiting on test results.

Which is great! But again I'm talking about public health advice and we're talking about vaccinate vs not and we're talking about adding variants that weren't as known or known to be prevalent in the past. The absence of an outbreak at a certain private business does not mean there is no risk, does not mean that another one won't there's no way to try to make a point, and I mean this nicely, that just because your office doesn't have any cases so far does not mean another place won't just as outbreaks at one restaurant does not mean every single one has or that every single manufacturing plant has but without a doubt offices have had outbreaks, restaurants have had outbreaks and manufacturing places have had outbreaks. As far as to the best of your knowledge that will depend on HR and identifying close contacts. Time for me to move on but I mean that politely.

 

[anniemae]

I have been told that many privately run sites are stopping use of it now as well.

I just checked cvs.com and they are not using it. I know of many people booked with cvs for this weekend so I am guessing those will be canceled. All were for J&J.

 

[Jonfw2]

Fauci just said the pause on JNJ may be over in a week.