CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[snappy]

A shot or two or three or more in the arm, whatever it takes will be a shot in the arm of the economy.

 

[sam_gordon]

So what?

You say that like it's the end of the world. I've got news. Business as is has indeed been the economic end of the world for a lot of people. Whatever it takes to get things moving again is fine by me. 4 shots for the next year? Big whoop. I mean, logistically it's a PITA for people. But if that's the price of opening things back up for people who have lost so much, then just tell me when and where.

People have lost everything. And you think it matters that people might need booster shots?

Sigh. I'm apparently not explaining myself. I believe that IF the vaccine requires four shots a year for multiple years going forward, the number of people who keep up on the vaccination will (probably drastically) drop. Not because they're scared of the vaccine, but because "life" will get in the way. If you believe differently, that's fine.

ETA: On that note, I'm bowing out of this thread. I apparently can't articulate my positions clearly.

 

[RamblingMad]

Sigh. I'm apparently not explaining myself. I believe that IF the vaccine requires four shots a year for multiple years going forward, the number of people who keep up on the vaccination will (probably drastically) drop. Not because they're scared of the vaccine, but because "life" will get in the way. If you believe differently, that's fine.

Not if they die of COVID-19. Then life won't get in the way.

 

[Pyotr]

Sigh. I'm apparently not explaining myself. I believe that IF the vaccine requires four shots a year for multiple years going forward, the number of people who keep up on the vaccination will (probably drastically) drop. Not because they're scared of the vaccine, but because "life" will get in the way. If you believe differently, that's fine.

I watched a video the other day with the CEO of Pfizer who states at this point he is thinking every other year for a booster. Once I find the video I’ll post it.

 

[RamblingMad]

Sunshine and roses or doom and gloom?

It's Christmas time. This is the norm. You're either super happy or you want to jump off a bridge. It's basically It's a Wonderful Life. Gotta watch it now.

 

[snappy]

Great movie. Classic. been watching it for years, years ago our kids even gifted me with a DVD.

 

[tippity]

It was reported on CNBC just now that pharmacists are noting that a 6th and even a 7th Pfizer vaccine shot can be obtained from every 5 dose vial.

That's fantastic! Thanks for sharing!

 

[gwynne]

Sigh. I'm apparently not explaining myself. I believe that IF the vaccine requires four shots a year for multiple years going forward, the number of people who keep up on the vaccination will (probably drastically) drop. Not because they're scared of the vaccine, but because "life" will get in the way. If you believe differently, that's fine.

ETA: On that note, I'm bowing out of this thread. I apparently can't articulate my positions clearly.

You are clear.
I think incentives might come into play. Maybe if you are current on your covid vaccinations, you get a discount on health premiums or a reduced deductible.
There are lots of ways to do this, those are just a couple of examples.
People generally find the time if it's worth it to them.

 

[rjb123]

You are clear.
I think incentives might come into play. Maybe if you are current on your covid vaccinations, you get a discount on health premiums or a reduced deductible.
There are lots of ways to do this, those are just a couple of examples.
People generally find the time if it's worth it to them.

people will do it if NOT doing it means they can't go to the movies, or that ball game, or their monster truck rally. if they can't fly to Disney or get in the park without one they will line up for them.

 

[Kestryl]

Sigh. I'm apparently not explaining myself. I believe that IF the vaccine requires four shots a year for multiple years going forward, the number of people who keep up on the vaccination will (probably drastically) drop. Not because they're scared of the vaccine, but because "life" will get in the way. If you believe differently, that's fine.

ETA: On that note, I'm bowing out of this thread. I apparently can't articulate my positions clearly.

Maybe I missed something, but for the record, I agree with you. People may be really into getting an initial shot, but periodic updates may not always be at the front of their priorities. I mean, I know so many people who just keep pushing off the flu shot and go oh well, maybe next year. (Note that this isn’t commentary saying covid is just the flu; just a comment on how people can act.)

 

[dvcgirl67]

It was reported on CNBC just now that pharmacists are noting that a 6th and even a 7th Pfizer vaccine shot can be obtained from every 5 dose vial.

Yeah, I posted an article about this up a bit in this thread. I was wondering how Pfizer didn't know this. I mean, that's a huge deal and one that needs to be taken into future plans. That's a 40% increase in vaccine....not insignificant.

 

[RamblingMad]

Maybe I missed something, but for the record, I agree with you. People may be really into getting an initial shot, but periodic updates may not always be at the front of their priorities. I mean, I know so many people who just keep pushing off the flu shot and go oh well, maybe next year. (Note that this isn’t commentary saying covid is just the flu; just a comment on how people can act.)

I know it's time to get the flu shot when I see Halloween decorations and candy at Walgreens. It's how I think about it every year. Next year I'm thinking about getting the cell based one from Passport Health.

I'll get this one sometime next year. No idea what vaccine. It doesn't appear like we'll have much of a choice.

 

[aggiedog]

I'm the one that initially asked about boosters and length of immunity. Not doom and gloom, not anti-vax. I'll be getting vaccinated sooner rather than later as I'm in health care - hopefully really soon. So if immunity is short-ish and they decide we get boosters sooner rather than later, it will could feasibly be when some of the population is getting their first shot. Which means they'll need even more doses than initially planned. So just wondering out loud how that will play out. As has been mentioned, ad nauseum, this is a new disease and a new vaccination. We don't know much and certainly not much about how the vaccinations and lasting immunity will go. That's not anti-vax, that's just science facts. As the studies progress, we'll know more. That's the reality of using an EUA vaccine in the middle of a pandemic. Real time research data is going to occur just ahead of real time general usage.

As for extra doses in the vials, some syringes have hubs that hold a certain amount of fluid. I have a medicine I give patients regularly that is 5ml of solution, but I can only get 4.6ml out of the bottle and into patients. The rest gets stuck at the bottom of the bottle, in the needle hubs, even just a tad left in the needle. I can totally see how Pfizer may have overfilled the bottles to make sure you get 100% of each vaccine dose and allowed some to spare.

 

[snappy]

My internist sends me reminder through the patient portal, quizzes me when I see her twice a year. I am very motivated to follow up With the vaccinations she recommends. She is also my mom’s doctor, I have kept track of mom’s vaccines as well ( 2 sets of 2 different shots for shingles, annual flu shots). I had no trouble following up on the second Shingrix vaccinations, and mine were spaced out two weeks apart. They were more scarce when mom had them a couple years ago, so I kept checking on them until they were available. It was simple, and I am no spring chicken. I put a reminder in the calendar on my phone, then I followed through. Not rocket science. Not sunshine and roses.

 

[Colleen27]

My internist sends me reminder through the patient portal, quizzes me when I see her twice a year. I am very motivated to follow up With the vaccinations she recommends. She is also my mom’s doctor, I have kept track of mom’s vaccines as well ( 2 sets of 2 different shots for shingles, annual flu shots). I had no trouble following up on the second Shingrix vaccinations, and mine were spaced out two weeks apart. They were more scarce when mom had them a couple years ago, so I kept checking on them until they were available. It was simple, and I am no spring chicken. I put a reminder in the calendar on my phone, then I followed through. Not rocket science. Not sunshine and roses.

But this is a very middle class view of the world. For people who don't have heath insurance or a primary doctor and who deal with more or less constant stress due to finances, remembering these ordinary things and making time for them becomes a far different matter. One of the perennial challenges our health department talks about is how kids get their first in the series vaccines for things like HPV because they need an annual school/sports physical, but a significant percentage never come back for the second dose. Once the emergency has passed, that's likely to be an issue with this as well. And while this initial round of covid vaccines has been promised at no cost to the public, "free" flu shots cost the uninsured $40 at most chain pharmacies. That's a reality we're likely to have to contend with if the covid vaccine does require periodic boosters because they won't be free forever and cost will be a deterrent for some people.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I know people on here want sunshine and roses, but the more shots that are required by a single person to keep this virus at bay, the less likely the general population is keep up with it.

It's not that the point doesn't come across necessarily, it's that you position this like it means a failure. I don't disagree that the more shots over time the harder it is to keep up but there's also our immune systems at play.

We know about Tdap boosters. It's about every 10 years. Do we all do that? I mean no but before we put the cart before the horse here we can frame the conversation as part of practicality or we can frame the conversation as part of futility. I believe most of us respond because it ends up sounding like futility on your end even when you might just be bringing up practicality of something.

Who really knows about booster shots but in the short term you'd be more likely to see people willing to get it presently that is if supply of it is there and years down the road if/when it gets to the point where people don't think about it as much hopefully our immune systems have a better response and can recognize things and hopefully we have a much better plan in how to combat it should resurgence continue (especially if it gets out of control globally again). The cost, should boosters be needed and how frequently, is a really good point the other poster brought up and it's not that you don't have a point to think about just sorta comes back to how it's framed, at least how I'm viewing the conversations that ensue.

 

[SmallWorld71]

I now know my first IRL vaccine recipient. A friend who is a nurse at a Boston hospital who works directly with Covid patients, received her first dose this morning.

 

[Shellsbutt]

But this is a very middle class view of the world. For people who don't have heath insurance or a primary doctor and who deal with more or less constant stress due to finances, remembering these ordinary things and making time for them becomes a far different matter.

Bingo! Very well said. I consider my family to be middle class but we are without health insurance for the first time in my life. My husband lost his job in September after 23 years with the company. We have enrolled in Covered CA-doesn't take effect until January. I had a dermatology skin check appt that I kept anyway, and it was a big situation trying to figure out how much I was going to pay out of pocket, if they would even accept that. Dermatologist took pity on me and didn't charge me for freezing off pre cancerous mole. We have tried to get Medi cal to cover us until the beginning of the year, cannot get through or get disconnected. I tried to get a flu shot, called around and got quoted between 40-50 dollars for uninsured. It just wasn't worth the hassle for me, and I don't normally get one anyway. It's just really hard right now if you don't have insurance, don't have a regular doctor. I'm sure there are many people out there in similar situations.

 

[aprilchem]

Saw this in The Washington Post....that the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine may have extra doses in the vial. Ok...that could be. But the explanation doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but why would the type of syringe/needle matter? A dose is a dose right? Am I missing something?

Yes. There are two types of delivery systems that exist for scientific vessels - those marked TD (which stands for "To Deliver") and those marked TC (which stands for "To Contain"). Delivery systems meant "to deliver" are designed so that an extra amount of liquid stays in the system (in a syringe, it might stay in the needle itself, in the neck of the syringe) when the proper amount is delivered, by design. Items that are "to contain" deliver the entire amount of liquid, and nothing is left over in the vessel after.

So, the markings on the syringe are calibrated so that you get the correct dose either way, but you actually draw up more volume for a TD syringe than you would a TC syringe. The vials of vaccine are designed to accommodate either, so if you use TC syringes you're going to have some leftover when you draw up the correct dose, 5 times.

Hope that helps!

 

[dvcgirl67]

Yes. There are two types of delivery systems that exist for scientific vessels - those marked TD (which stands for "To Deliver") and those marked TC (which stands for "To Contain"). Delivery systems meant "to deliver" are designed so that an extra amount of liquid stays in the system (in a syringe, it might stay in the needle itself, in the neck of the syringe) when the proper amount is delivered, by design. Items that are "to contain" deliver the entire amount of liquid, and nothing is left over in the vessel after.

So, the markings on the syringe are calibrated so that you get the correct dose either way, but you actually draw up more volume for a TD syringe than you would a TC syringe. The vials of vaccine are designed to accommodate either, so if you use TC syringes you're going to have some leftover when you draw up the correct dose, 5 times.

Hope that helps!

It does!! Thank you!