Casey Anthony Trial Thread #3

[CurlyGirl]

I don't know. I honestly don't know how often or even if Casey was drugging her. If she was drugging her, where was she sleeping for 8 hours? When Casey was spending the night with Tony, she was there for more than 8 hours. Caylee didn't spend the night there so where was she? What happened to Caylee if she woke in 6 hours instead of 8?

I take a Xanax to fly. It does not make me sleepy at all. I obviously weigh a lot more than little Caylee so I don't know how much one would give a toddler to make her sleep a solid 8 hours. Xanax isn't a sleeping pill. It is meant to relax the person. The side effect can be drowsiness but that can be said for many drugs. Even a sleeping pill doesn't guarantee an exact number of hours of sleep. People take them and still find themselves waking up in the middle of the night. Where was Caylee stashed while she was being drugged?

I've used Xanax and valium on occassion (mainly for overseas flights) and, at 5'2" and 100 lbs., I can tell you that it's knocked me out! With that said, you never know how a medication will effect one person to the next! Everyone has different reactions to meds., right? Heck, even the "less drowsy" dramamine makes me sooo sleepy! With that said, if a Xanax is meant to relax an "average" adult, it might knocks a child out. It's my guess that's why she used it, if she did use it (and I would tend to believe she did). Perhaps she found it less risky than sleep agents since it's more of a relaxant than a sleeping pill?

Where she put Caylee once drugged is a very good and interesting question ... I can't even imagine she'd leave her in the trunk all the time, but who knows!? I guess we never will!

 

[CurlyGirl]

I distinctly remember her friends and family saying on the stand that she seemed to love Caylee, laughed and played with her, and seemed to have a good relationship. I get that Casey lied to all of these people and she could have been putting on a front. I do not rule out the possibility that it was all an act. However, in my experience with people that have a low tolerance level for their kids, it eventually comes out. Maybe she kept it well hidden or maybe her family and friends are still protecting her?

I should add that I don't think her friends saw her with Caylee all that often so they had very little to go on.

I don't know how good/bad of a mother she was. Some people are good at faking it in front of others. We all know Casey's lying capabilities .......

How many times have you heard of someone abusing a child (or killing the child) and neighbors are on tv saying "I can't believe she did that to her kids! She was always such a loving, caring mother!" More often than not, you know?

 

[Kurby]

theres no evidence that she drugged caylee

was anything found in her room, were there any security tapes showing that she bought any over the counter drugs - i know she'd get xanax on the street but i'm wondering if she bought anything else

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

theres no evidence that she drugged caylee

was anything found in her room, were there any security tapes showing that she bought any over the counter drugs - i know she'd get xanax on the street but i'm wondering if she bought anything else

security tapes are only saved for so long. I believe they only got what they could from the 31 days.

I'd hate to think that all my shopping is kept on video forever.

ETA: We will never know what Casey won't tell us. The hiding of the body and her keeping her lips tightly shut to letting the truth escape took care of that.

 

[denisem]

I don't know. I honestly don't know how often or even if Casey was drugging her. If she was drugging her, where was she sleeping for 8 hours? When Casey was spending the night with Tony, she was there for more than 8 hours. Caylee didn't spend the night there so where was she? What happened to Caylee if she woke in 6 hours instead of 8?

I take a Xanax to fly. It does not make me sleepy at all. I obviously weigh a lot more than little Caylee so I don't know how much one would give a toddler to make her sleep a solid 8 hours. Xanax isn't a sleeping pill. It is meant to relax the person. The side effect can be drowsiness but that can be said for many drugs. Even a sleeping pill doesn't guarantee an exact number of hours of sleep. People take them and still find themselves waking up in the middle of the night. Where was Caylee stashed while she was being drugged?

OK, I just went back to one of TL's statements. He recalled the 1st time ICA stayed over was 6-13 (pg. 21-line7):

http://investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/files/anthony-lazaro-interview.pdf

This is where I agree with LisaR & why I don't believe there was any long-term Xanax, chloroform, duct-tape-baby-in-the-trunk scenerio. Please note this all speculation on my part & I welcome people shooting holes in it.

ICA started dating TL mid/late May and was intimate but she did not stay overnight until 6-13. Up until then, ICA would say she had to go home. So there really was no reason for her to drug Caylee or put her in the trunk before then because CA probably babysat in the evenings believing ICA's "working late" excuses. But that still left a few weeks of ICA partying with her new friends and no doubt staying out late. Which could have resulted in CA getting PO'd and laying down the law.

So ICA stayed overnight on 6-13 with TL. Haven't seen any info about 6-14. 6-15 was CA's trip to visit her father with Caylee for Father's day, the money issues, the straw that broke the camel's back and the big fight to which no one admits.

6-16 was the last time Caylee was seen.

 

[ilovepete]

Given that info, is there any documentation of where Caylee was on 6-13? Just curious, because if CA/GA didn't have her, and IF she was drugging her, maybe she did so that night, too?

 

[joviroxx]

Finally got a chance to read up and I have to say y'all have had a really good conversation today. Its been very interesting to read all the different opinions and viewpoints.

Personally, I don't think Casey had it all that easy. I don't mean an easy life, cause she had that. I mean I think Cindy loved taking care of Caylee but there have been clues that Cindy was on Casey about being a good mother and Casey jealous when Caylee preferrred Cindy. There was obvious tension between the two of them having to do with Caylee and I completely believe Casey used Caylee as a weapon to "get to" her mother. Whether it started that way or not, I convinced that is what the situation was in 2008.

So, which is it? Was Casey using chloroform to keep Caylee out of the way? Well, I don't think Casey was all that smart and I do think its plausible that she had no intention of killing Caylee and thought she would just wake up BUT... if she had done that, when did she discover Caylee was dead? You have to believe that Caylee was dead by the time she got to Tony's. She never goes back to check on her, she just stays with Tony. So, for me, the idea that she drugged her to go to Tony's doesn't fly. Not because she's all that bright, but because she knew Caylee was already dead when she hit Tony's house.

I have to check, but were those chloroform searches at the same time as Ricardo M. posted that pic? You never know with this nutty girl, she might have been searching how to make it to get kinky with RM...


I tend to believe that Casey was mad that day, for whatever reason. Was Caylee bothering her that day? Was she trying to make plans and Caylee was in the way? Did Caylee say something about loving her grandmother that set her off? Im not sure that Casey planned this for days (maybe its the mother in me that can't quite wrap my head around that) but I do believe she got mad and whether it was to spite her mother or some kind of reaction to something, she killed Caylee, at the house, before she went anywhere. Kind of like a , oh yeah, I'll show you!

People talk about the flurry of phone calls to her mom. That too, I don't think was to reach out for help. Maybe she was just looking to make sure people were out of the house.

Who knows, maybe she was planning it. It's something that is very hard for me to absorb. But this is one narcissistic sociopath and I guess, at the end of the day, if we ever find out the truth, I wouldn't be surprised whatever it may be.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I distinctly remember her friends and family saying on the stand that she seemed to love Caylee, laughed and played with her, and seemed to have a good relationship. I get that Casey lied to all of these people and she could have been putting on a front. I do not rule out the possibility that it was all an act. However, in my experience with people that have a low tolerance level for their kids, it eventually comes out. Maybe she kept it well hidden or maybe her family and friends are still protecting her?

I should add that I don't think her friends saw her with Caylee all that often so they had very little to go on.

Okay-

I had stopped watching after the first week and only got bits and pieces of "did Caylee appear well dressed (or however he said it), fed, and happy".

My take--if Casey was more buddy buddy and not as motherly, then a 2 year old would still enjoy her company. Much like when my kids are in the care of another caregiver. They will appear happy and while we know that those caregivers are not the mother--visually, it wouldn't necessarily appear that way. KWIM?

My best example is when I have other kids with use and people assume that those additional kids are mine. To someone else, it doesn't appear any different.

So Caylee enjoyed Casey's company--and Caylee knew her name as "mom", but did she know her as "mom" or this really fun lady that comes around some times and hangs out with me?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OK, I just went back to one of TL's statements. He recalled the 1st time ICA stayed over was 6-13 (pg. 21-line7):

http://investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/files/anthony-lazaro-interview.pdf

This is where I agree with LisaR & why I don't believe there was any long-term Xanax, chloroform, duct-tape-baby-in-the-trunk scenerio. Please note this all speculation on my part & I welcome people shooting holes in it.

ICA started dating TL mid/late May and was intimate but she did not stay overnight until 6-13. Up until then, ICA would say she had to go home. So there really was no reason for her to drug Caylee or put her in the trunk before then because CA probably babysat in the evenings believing ICA's "working late" excuses. But that still left a few weeks of ICA partying with her new friends and no doubt staying out late. Which could have resulted in CA getting PO'd and laying down the law.

So ICA stayed overnight on 6-13 with TL. Haven't seen any info about 6-14. 6-15 was CA's trip to visit her father with Caylee for Father's day, the money issues, the straw that broke the camel's back and the big fight to which no one admits.

6-16 was the last time Caylee was seen.

Casey's last boyfriend let Caylee sleep over.

If I am not mistaken--Tony would not.

So--that is possible motive. Dumb motive--but motive.

How do we know about a fight again? It keeps getting tossed out there--but if no one knows about it, why I we talking about it? I don't remember.

 

[joviroxx]

How do we know about a fight again? It keeps getting tossed out there--but if no one knows about it, why I we talking about it? I don't remember.

I have to look this up. But, I think it has something to do with Lee saying something to someone?

 

[LisaR]

Okay-

I had stopped watching after the first week and only got bits and pieces of "did Caylee appear well dressed (or however he said it), fed, and happy".

My take--if Casey was more buddy buddy and not as motherly, then a 2 year old would still enjoy her company. Much like when my kids are in the care of another caregiver. They will appear happy and while we know that those caregivers are not the mother--visually, it wouldn't necessarily appear that way. KWIM?

My best example is when I have other kids with use and people assume that those additional kids are mine. To someone else, it doesn't appear any different.

So Caylee enjoyed Casey's company--and Caylee knew her name as "mom", but did she know her as "mom" or this really fun lady that comes around some times and hangs out with me?

I want to make it clear that I am not defending Casey and suggesting she should get Mother of the Year award. She killed her child. I can't type my true feelings for her on this message board or I would be banned for life. I just don't see any proof presented by the state, media, or all the bloggers and message boards out there that Casey was drugging Caylee or even that Casey was constantly complaining about Caylee being a burden.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I want to make it clear that I am not defending Casey and suggesting she should get Mother of the Year award. She killed her child. I can't type my true feelings for her on this message board or I would be banned for life. I just don't see any proof presented by the state, media, or all the bloggers and message boards out there that Casey was drugging Caylee or even that Casey was constantly complaining about Caylee being a burden.

Didn't think that you were.

I look at her post-Caylee's death behavior as indicative that she was no longer feeling the love for Caylee. I also don't think that was something that developed overnight.

I don't think she complained--because that would be honesty. And as Judge Strickland said--The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers. Much easier for Casey to live a lie for no reason at all, than to open up to someone about her burdens.

Did Casey complain (pre-the 31 days) to ANYONE that her and her parents did not get along? (don't know--thus I am asking) We can see that--it is so obvious...but that is after she is busted.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have to look this up. But, I think it has something to do with Lee saying something to someone?

The person coming to mind is Leonard Padilla. I have not heard anyone else make this claim. (Padilla may have said that Lee told him...but the fact that it is Leonard makes me wonder if it actually happened or if it is being exaggerated. One would think that perhaps Jose would use an attack by Cindy...but that dang stolen money issue.)

 

[Belle0101]

Regarding the alleged fight between Cindy and Casey on June 15th, I found this: Lee allegedy told Jesse that Cindy and Casey had a fight, Cindy grabbed Casey by the neck and tried to strangle her, Lee denied it as did Cindy.

I don't know what benefit would be in it for Jesse to make-up the story.

 

[Kurby]

i agree with you lisa. i'm having a hard time with the whole drugging thing.

if her bf's said no to caylee sleeping over then she had her parents to watch her.

there didn't seem to be a reason to even have that entre her mind. we're only thinking it was an issue on the 16th becasue that was the last time someone saw her alive.

but what if it was the first day she couldn't find someone to watch her. what if giving her xanax was the first time and she gave her too much. or what if - i know big if she was home with her during that day and she actually did drown in the pool.

we know cindy was always careful with her in and around the water but what if that day casey went inside to get a drink or put her in the pool then sat out to get a tan or something and wasn't watching her and she drown.

panic sets in and she doesn't know what to do - do i think george had something to do with a cover up - HELL NO - i think she did it all on her own.

let say she had 6-8 hours until she met up with tony to figure out what to do and she couldn't so before anyone came home she put caylee in the trunk wrapped up, cleaned up but left the pool stairs up.?

or what if she wrapped her up and hid her in the little play house but then she would be taking a chance that no one would find her if casey wasn't planning on coming home that night or for a few nights.

it's strange that the dogs hit on the back yard so she had to have been there for a little while or the dogs wouldn't have hit on the back.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Some people look at the pictures of Casey and Caylee and see something in Casey's eyes that indicate she didn't love Caylee. I just don't see that. The pictures from the early years show me a mother that loved her daughter. Admittedly, I could be wrong. Again, I wish I knew the truth.

When I watch the video of Caylee on Father's Day, I see nothing but a happy, healthy little girl. I don't know what an almost 3 year old would look like if they were being chloroformed and/or given Xanex on a regular basis but I have looked at that final video a hundred times and I just don't see a little girl that looks like she is being drugged.

When I look at those pictures, I don't see love or lack of love in Casey's eyes. I see a picture, a literal snapshot. I don't think they show anything.

I don't think anyone is saying that Caylee was abused or ignored or anything that would make her an unhappy little girl. She received "good" care from her grandparents, and probably even Casey. I don't THINK that anyone has said or thought that she was drugged regularly. And I think the word "drugged" gives the impression of someone in a stoned stupor. I have Ativan...if I take one, I'm fine. I don't feel ANY different, except not anxious. If it's late at night, it WILL help me fall asleep. If I take two during the day (which I haven't done more than a couple of time, because of this), I will feel a little sleepy; two at night, and the next day, I'll probably feel groggy. I never take two at night anymore because of that. I never took Xanax, so I can't speak to that, but Caylee didn't need to be put into a stoned stupor from a drug for it to make her sleep and keep her asleep for hours.

There was a guest on some show tonight (they're all running together at this point) who said that CHRONIC drugging of Caylee would show up in Caylee's hair, not occasional. And who knows how the water would affect that.

I don't know how good/bad of a mother she was. Some people are good at faking it in front of others. We all know Casey's lying capabilities .......

How many times have you heard of someone abusing a child (or killing the child) and neighbors are on tv saying "I can't believe she did that to her kids! She was always such a loving, caring mother!" More often than not, you know?

Too often.

theres no evidence that she drugged caylee

was anything found in her room, were there any security tapes showing that she bought any over the counter drugs - i know she'd get xanax on the street but i'm wondering if she bought anything else

Xanax is expensive (per TV commentators...I wouldn't know); therefore, the speculation that she went on to Chloroform, which she could make easily and cheaply. I'm guessing...and it's just a guess...that Xanax was available within her group of friends. No evidence points to her keeping Caylee "drugged" on a regular basis.

OK, I just went back to one of TL's statements. He recalled the 1st time ICA stayed over was 6-13 (pg. 21-line7):

http://investigation.discovery.com/...l_coverage/files/anthony-lazaro-interview.pdf

This is where I agree with LisaR & why I don't believe there was any long-term Xanax, chloroform, duct-tape-baby-in-the-trunk scenerio. Please note this all speculation on my part & I welcome people shooting holes in it.

ICA started dating TL mid/late May and was intimate but she did not stay overnight until 6-13. Up until then, ICA would say she had to go home. So there really was no reason for her to drug Caylee or put her in the trunk before then because CA probably babysat in the evenings believing ICA's "working late" excuses. But that still left a few weeks of ICA partying with her new friends and no doubt staying out late. Which could have resulted in CA getting PO'd and laying down the law.

So ICA stayed overnight on 6-13 with TL. Haven't seen any info about 6-14. 6-15 was CA's trip to visit her father with Caylee for Father's day, the money issues, the straw that broke the camel's back and the big fight to which no one admits.

6-16 was the last time Caylee was seen.

I agree...again. EXCEPT that before Tony, I believe she could have given on a RARE occasion to help her sleep while she was at friends' apartments partying, or sleeping with whomever, just because I personally think that Zanny the Nanny means Xanax, even if she wasn't actually using Xanax on Caylee regularly; I think once she started using the name (for Xanax), she hung onto it for her stories. Like that movie I'm supposed to watch after all this is over (The Usual Suspects?).

So, which is it? Was Casey using chloroform to keep Caylee out of the way? Well, I don't think Casey was all that smart and I do think its plausible that she had no intention of killing Caylee and thought she would just wake up BUT... if she had done that, when did she discover Caylee was dead? You have to believe that Caylee was dead by the time she got to Tony's. She never goes back to check on her, she just stays with Tony. So, for me, the idea that she drugged her to go to Tony's doesn't fly. Not because she's all that bright, but because she knew Caylee was already dead when she hit Tony's house.

I tend to believe that Casey was mad that day, for whatever reason. Was Caylee bothering her that day? Was she trying to make plans and Caylee was in the way? Did Caylee say something about loving her grandmother that set her off? Im not sure that Casey planned this for days (maybe its the mother in me that can't quite wrap my head around that) but I do believe she got mad and whether it was to spite her mother or some kind of reaction to something, she killed Caylee, at the house, before she went anywhere. Kind of like a , oh yeah, I'll show you!

People talk about the flurry of phone calls to her mom. That too, I don't think was to reach out for help. Maybe she was just looking to make sure people were out of the house.

Who knows, maybe she was planning it. It's something that is very hard for me to absorb. But this is one narcissistic sociopath and I guess, at the end of the day, if we ever find out the truth, I wouldn't be surprised whatever it may be.

I think that weekend, everything that was building up came to a head.

Okay-

I had stopped watching after the first week and only got bits and pieces of "did Caylee appear well dressed (or however he said it), fed, and happy".

My take--if Casey was more buddy buddy and not as motherly, then a 2 year old would still enjoy her company. Much like when my kids are in the care of another caregiver. They will appear happy and while we know that those caregivers are not the mother--visually, it wouldn't necessarily appear that way. KWIM?

My best example is when I have other kids with use and people assume that those additional kids are mine. To someone else, it doesn't appear any different.

So Caylee enjoyed Casey's company--and Caylee knew her name as "mom", but did she know her as "mom" or this really fun lady that comes around some times and hangs out with me?

Yes yes yes! Good post.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

i agree with you lisa. i'm having a hard time with the whole drugging thing.

if her bf's said no to caylee sleeping over then she had her parents to watch her.

there didn't seem to be a reason to even have that entre her mind. we're only thinking it was an issue on the 16th becasue that was the last time someone saw her alive.

but what if it was the first day she couldn't find someone to watch her. what if giving her xanax was the first time and she gave her too much. or what if - i know big if she was home with her during that day and she actually did drown in the pool.

we know cindy was always careful with her in and around the water but what if that day casey went inside to get a drink or put her in the pool then sat out to get a tan or something and wasn't watching her and she drown.

panic sets in and she doesn't know what to do - do i think george had something to do with a cover up - HELL NO - i think she did it all on her own.

let say she had 6-8 hours until she met up with tony to figure out what to do and she couldn't so before anyone came home she put caylee in the trunk wrapped up, cleaned up but left the pool stairs up.?

or what if she wrapped her up and hid her in the little play house but then she would be taking a chance that no one would find her if casey wasn't planning on coming home that night or for a few nights.

it's strange that the dogs hit on the back yard so she had to have been there for a little while or the dogs wouldn't have hit on the back.

A kid drowns--the first response isn't to cover it up and ignore it. It just does not compute in my brain at all.

To bring George into it, just provides evidence that it is a lie (for me).

It takes it beyond implausible for me and yet another lie.

 

[Kurby]

covering it up doesn't work in my brain either - it's an option as far as KC is concerned.

maybe she saw her not moving pulled her out and her brain went right ot problem solved over get help????

we're trying to put OUR normal way of thinking onto someone who clearly isn't "normal" and doesn't have that same thought process, emotion, and common sense as a "normal" person.

we're never going to know the truth but people like KC and Susan Smith who kill their children becasue they pick a guy they just met over their own flesh and blood don't think like us. their state of mind, thoughts and even they way they see a situation just doesn't make sense to me.

with susan smith - i can't wrap my mind around the fact that she watched her car and her children go into the water and just stood there.

not even a moment of - oh crap what have i done - nothing.

casey is the same imho - she just moved on

 

[LisaR]

we're trying to put OUR normal way of thinking onto someone who clearly isn't "normal" and doesn't have that same thought process, emotion, and common sense as a "normal" person.

I think this is exactly what it comes down to.

 

[richmond282]

i agree with you lisa. i'm having a hard time with the whole drugging thing.

if her bf's said no to caylee sleeping over then she had her parents to watch her.

there didn't seem to be a reason to even have that entre her mind. we're only thinking it was an issue on the 16th becasue that was the last time someone saw her alive.

but what if it was the first day she couldn't find someone to watch her. what if giving her xanax was the first time and she gave her too much. or what if - i know big if she was home with her during that day and she actually did drown in the pool.

we know cindy was always careful with her in and around the water but what if that day casey went inside to get a drink or put her in the pool then sat out to get a tan or something and wasn't watching her and she drown.

panic sets in and she doesn't know what to do - do i think george had something to do with a cover up - HELL NO - i think she did it all on her own.

let say she had 6-8 hours until she met up with tony to figure out what to do and she couldn't so before anyone came home she put caylee in the trunk wrapped up, cleaned up but left the pool stairs up.?

or what if she wrapped her up and hid her in the little play house but then she would be taking a chance that no one would find her if casey wasn't planning on coming home that night or for a few nights.

it's strange that the dogs hit on the back yard so she had to have been there for a little while or the dogs wouldn't have hit on the back.

I agree with this. I don't buy that she was planning to murder/drug her daughter way back when she did the internet searches. I think she was experimenting with drugs.

I don't think Casey felt maternal towards Caylee. I think she acted more like a sister towards her. I think she loved Caylee but did not have the mothering instinct.

I think if Caylee's death was premeditated, it was only a short term premeditation like that morning or something. I tend to be of the camp that Casey did something really stupid that resulted in Caylee's death. Maybe she did chloroform her, (but I don't think it was a long term thing that had been going on) and it went horribly wrong. I think if Casey had been drugging Caylee for a while SOMEBODY would have seen her with drugs or seen Caylee acting strange. Or maybe Caylee did drown in the pool due to neglect on Casey's part. Def don't think George had anything to do with it though.

I think Caylee was in that playhouse at least for a little while and then and put in the trunk. I think the duct tape was put on Caylee when she was dumped to make it look like a kidnapping. I think Casey intended for her car to be "stolen" when she abandoned it so she could claim Caylee was inside and kidnapped. Not sure why she didn't drive it into a lake though. Seems like that would have been a better way to dispose of the car. It also seems like she would have reported the "kidnapping" to make it seem more realistic.

Casey never expected that her parents would get that impound notice and go pick up the car. I'm not really sure why she thought nobody was ever notice her daughter was missing.