Carrying Guns

[bcla]

AGAIN, I was responding to OP - who was talking about a group of people on a message board stating they carry guns around the resorts even though it's against rules. I was stating they could be arrested ........... because we have NO knowledge if they are carrying legally. AND by breaking Disney rules there will likely be other consequences.

And the real point is private property, Disney says no ... what's so hard about abiding by the rules. Disney is optional in life, if folks don't like the rules, don't go.

NOTE: We have multiple guns in our home, DH has a carry permit. We would NEVER bring guns to Disney World.

Well - I was the one who mentioned that criminal trespass might be enforceable without a specific warning, but that may not be the case with Florida law. And I generally agree with you that this isn't something where one should take pride in flouting the rules.

 

[HopperFan]

Well - I was the one who mentioned that criminal trespass might be enforceable without a specific warning, but that may not be the case with Florida law. And I generally agree with you that this isn't something where one should take pride in flouting the rules.

Oh I hear you. I agree with you. I think Disney is completely in their right to issue a criminal trespass immediately if they want for breaking an in writing terms of use, especially one that is very important to them.

And let's not forget Orange County is on the map thanks to Disney, Sheriffs are everywhere on property including undercover and they will do what they need to enforce the rules. Especially these days.

PS: Security does keep lists.

 

[LYSE]

Oh I hear you. I agree with you. I think Disney is completely in their right to issue a criminal trespass immediately if they want for breaking an in writing terms of use, especially one that is very important to them.

And let's not forget Orange County is on the map thanks to Disney, Sheriffs are everywhere on property and they will do what they need to enforce the rules. Especially these days.

In FL and CA signs have no force of law..which means you can't be automatically trespassed.

 

[HopperFan]

In FL and CA signs have no force of law..which means you can't be automatically trespassed.

Disney automatically trespasses people for so much less.

 

[LYSE]

Disney automatically trespasses people for so much less.

You can be asked to leave, what I meant is you can't be arrested for trespassesing unless you refuse to leave.

 

[bcla]

Oh I hear you. I agree with you. I think Disney is completely in their right to issue a criminal trespass immediately if they want for breaking an in writing terms of use, especially one that is very important to them.

And let's not forget Orange County is on the map thanks to Disney, Sheriffs are everywhere on property including undercover and they will do what they need to enforce the rules. Especially these days.

I've never actually been to Disney World so I'm not really all that aware of their security. Most of what I've learned has been mentioned here. Obviously there are some types of trespassing where it's pretty obvious that it would never have been allowed, like someone jumping over a fence to enter a property that's obviously closed to the public.

I suppose that someone accused of criminal trespass on the basis of carrying a weapon in contravention of a private business's rules might be able to argue about not being afforded a chance to leave first. However, it can be a matter of whatever contraband being egregious enough. Something like carrying a switchblade or heroin, where criminal trespass might just be an enhancement on top of some other crime.

 

[badbrad25]

Disney automatically trespasses people for so much less.

Don’t confuse what Disney can do civilly vs what Orange County can do criminally.. I’m sure Disney places a ton of people on a persona non grata list annually. But there is no criminal component to that in probably 98% of those cases.

 

[bcla]

Don’t confuse what Disney can do civilly vs what Orange County can do criminally.. I’m sure Disney places a ton of people on a persona non grata list annually. But there is no criminal component to that in probably 98% of those cases.

Criminal trespass always has that gray area where maybe someone needs to be told to leave first or where maybe it's egregious enough that it can be enforced simply on the basis that the violation of business policy. It is of course far easier to just tell people to leave and not worry about charging them with a crime.

 

[Krandor]

AGAIN, I was responding to OP - who was talking about a group of people on a message board stating they carry guns around the resorts even though it's against rules. I was stating they could be arrested ........... because we have NO knowledge if they are carrying legally. AND by breaking Disney rules there will likely be other consequences.

The point is you are not going to get arrested just for carrying on-property. You would have to do something else illegal like not have a permit to get arrested. There can be other consequences but not arrest. I also have no knowledge is anybody I see at a resort stole something but if found they will be arrested for that just like somebody without a permit will be arrested for not having a permit.

It isn't the act of carrying a gun on property that will lead to an arrest - it would be some other crime.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Florida statutes also prohibit carrying in to a portion of a business that is set aside for the sale and on premises consumption of alcohol where such portion is for such purpose. That is a paraphrase of the legalese. This would be most of world showcase and a good bit of Ak and DHS. The argument. Could be made for a good bit of 3 of the 4 parks.

No, that would be a bar, not restaurants that serve alcohol.

 

[Krandor]

No, that would be a bar, not restaurants that serve alcohol.

Right and if it was a restaurtant with a bar attached then that is where the "potion of a business" would come into play. You stay in the restaurtant side and away from the bar area.

 

[MikeOhio]

I’m really glad to hear that Disney controls this so strongly- I, like people in the majority of countries in the western world fail to really understand why anyone would need a gun at Disney World. It certainly makes me feel safer knowing it’s a gun free zone!

Just an FYI if you look at the list of the 20 largest mass shootings in the US, the vast majority actually occurred in gunfree zones. So really no reason to feel better. Bad things can happen whether or not an area is designated as gun free.

Back to the OP. If you are caught with a gun at the parks you will be kicked out and banned. You won’t be arrested as long as you have a Florida ccw or a ccw from a state that Florida recognizes and peacefully leave.

 

[bumbershoot]

like you stated private property can have it's own rules so you legally may carry a firearm into any private property until you are asked to leave or store it ..you may be trespassed if you refuse to leave.

That’s almost exactly what eswift said.

She asked you to tell her where she’s wrong and you told her she’s right.

 

[LYSE]

That’s almost exactly what eswift said.

She asked you to tell her where she’s wrong and you told her she’s right.

There's a huge difference between the law and private property rules.

Legally you can and that was my point, if you are arrested for not leaving it's for trespassing and not for carrying a legal weapon.

She was saying we didn't know our own laws.

 

[bcla]

There's a huge difference between the law and private property rules.

Legally you can and that was my point, if you are arrested for not leaving it's for trespassing and not for carrying a legal weapon.

She was saying we didn't know our own laws.

The reason why someone was asked to leave might form a basis for charging someone for trespassing or not if they do refuse to leave. If a prosecutor is looking at a business that told someone to leave for wearing an offensive T-shirt, that might be considered less severe than someone refusing to leave who is carrying a gun.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The reason why someone was asked to leave might form a basis for charging someone for trespassing or not if they do refuse to leave. If a prosecutor is looking at a business that told someone to leave for wearing an offensive T-shirt, that might be considered less severe than someone refusing to leave who is carrying a gun.

Either way, the point is it doesn't become trespass until you're asked to leave and then refuse.

 

[robinb]

Either way, the point is it doesn't become trespass until you're asked to leave and then refuse.

Perhaps legally, but Disney also has the right to ban the person with a gun anyway. They don’t need a reason.

 

[writerguyfl]

The reason why someone was asked to leave might form a basis for charging someone for trespassing or not if they do refuse to leave. If a prosecutor is looking at a business that told someone to leave for wearing an offensive T-shirt, that might be considered less severe than someone refusing to leave who is carrying a gun.

Correct. According to Florida Statutes 810.08:

• Trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the second degree.
• If there is a human being in the structure or conveyance at the time the offender trespassed, attempted to trespass, or was in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree.
• If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0810/0810.html

 

[bcla]

Either way, the point is it doesn't become trespass until you're asked to leave and then refuse.

Depends on local laws though. Certainly in some states the laws would allow for a trespass charge before anyone is asked to leave. That would be based on the violation of posted policy implying that the trespasser has given up the right to be there.

Even then it would have to be a serious matter and not a trifle. There’s the legal principle “de minimis non curat lex”. It would certainly be easier to invoke such a case where there’s a policy barring firearms as a trespass than for someone at a buffet who might be wasting food.

 

[bcla]

Correct. According to Florida Statutes 810.08:

• Trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the second degree.
• If there is a human being in the structure or conveyance at the time the offender trespassed, attempted to trespass, or was in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree.
• If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0810/0810.html

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of that. I was thinking in terms of whether or not a prosecutor would want to prosecute based on the seriousness of the request to leave. However, that’s certainly a big consideration for anyone legally carrying a firearm in Florida. That law adds a pretty hefty criminal enhancement for what’s otherwise a misdemeanor.