Carrying Guns

[Krandor]

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of that. I was thinking in terms of whether or not a prosecutor would want to prosecute based on the seriousness of the request to leave. However, that’s certainly a big consideration for anyone legally carrying a firearm in Florida. That law adds a pretty hefty criminal enhancement for what’s otherwise a misdemeanor.

Either way the most you are dealing with is tresspass not carrying a concelead weapon or other things as suggested earlier in this thread and honestly I doubt a DA is going to prosecute a tresspass at a public location unless the person was asked to leave and refused. Once you refuse to leave when told to then all bets are off. Any gun owner who made an issue about it would be an irresonsible one and even as a gun supporter they made their own bed at that point. If you carry someplace and that place asks you to leave because you are carrying then you leave.

 

[KarenP64]

I am sorry but why do you have to ask if its strictly enforced? It sounds like you may want to try to get around WDW policy or are you just asking to see if others are carrying guns into the parks?

I personally do not like to be around guns, so when I saw people discussing this, it didn't make me want to go to Disney.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I personally do not like to be around guns, so when I saw people discussing this, it didn't make me want to go to Disney.

What about Walmart, Target, grocery stores, or the gas station, people carry other places everyday in the US.
If my pants are on, my guns on.
I leave it in the room at disney simply because I don't want the risk of being trespassed, going to Disney means a lot to my family.

 

[KarenP64]

What about Walmart, Target, grocery stores, or the gas station, people carry other places everyday in the US.
If my pants are on, my guns on.
I leave it in the room at disney simply because I don't want the risk of being trespassed, going to Disney means a lot to my family.

I don't pay $5,000 to go to Target.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I don't pay $5,000 to go to Target.

I have

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

I would hope it is being enforced. I'd like to see the people who do not follow the rules banned from Disney for life. Responsible gun owners would not leave their guns in their vehicles, either. Do these people have kids with them? Do they bring a gun safe with them to lock the gun up at night?

https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/report-80-000-guns-stolen-in-florida-in-last-decade

Driving home the point, six firearms were stolen from unlocked cars in St. Johns County on Saturday morning.
In Jacksonville alone, 1,046 firearms were stolen from unsecured cars in 2015 and 2016, according to the Sheriff's Office.
According to the Times report, in 2007, 438,864 people carried guns in the Sunshine State. But today there are 1.7 million registered concealed permit holders.
Experts advise gun owners to lock their cars every night or take their firearms into their homes, rather than leaving them in a vehicle. A portable safe for a vehicle can also be purchased for less than $50.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Perhaps legally, but Disney also has the right to ban the person with a gun anyway. They don’t need a reason.

Correct, or for carrying a knife, which isn't a legal matter at all.

 

[LYSE]

I don't pay $5,000 to go to Target.

So?

Your vacationing in the USA specifically the south get used to it.

Not like it bothered you before you saw it discussed.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Depends on local laws though. Certainly in some states the laws would allow for a trespass charge before anyone is asked to leave. That would be based on the violation of posted policy implying that the trespasser has given up the right to be there.

Even then it would have to be a serious matter and not a trifle. There’s the legal principle “de minimis non curat lex”. It would certainly be easier to invoke such a case where there’s a policy barring firearms as a trespass than for someone at a buffet who might be wasting food.

But, we're specifically talking about a place of business that is open to the public, and about patrons who didn't break in during off hours, or otherwise enter illegally. In such instances, it doesn't become trespass until asked to leave and refusing to do so.

 

[meggiebeth]

Just an FYI if you look at the list of the 20 largest mass shootings in the US, the vast majority actually occurred in gunfree zones. So really no reason to feel better. Bad things can happen whether or not an area is designated as gun free.

Back to the OP. If you are caught with a gun at the parks you will be kicked out and banned. You won’t be arrested as long as you have a Florida ccw or a ccw from a state that Florida recognizes and peacefully leave.

Gun free zones within a country where guns are so easily available are understandably going to be ineffective, as someone can simply buy a gun from elsewhere in the US. Unless the whole of the USA limits access to guns there will always be a very high homicide rate and considerable gun crime. Disney World is probably one of the safest places in the country.

 

[bcla]

But, we're specifically talking about a place of business that is open to the public, and about patrons who didn't break in during off hours, or otherwise enter illegally. In such instances, it doesn't become trespass until asked to leave and refusing to do so.

Again, it depends on the law, and I specifically noted the interpretation of the Seattle City Attorney. That stated that a courtesy request to leave is typical but hinted that it’s not necessary to establish criminal trespass. Washington law is more expansive about trespassing and doesn’t require that one be asked to leave in a business already open to the public. Failure to comply with conditions made to enter could result in a trespassing charge.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.090

RCW 9A.52.090
Criminal trespass—Defenses.
In any prosecution under RCW 9A.52.070 and 9A.52.080, it is a defense that:
(1) A building involved in an offense under RCW 9A.52.070 was abandoned; or
(2) The premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
(3) The actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him or her to enter or remain; or
(4) The actor was attempting to serve legal process which includes any document required or allowed to be served upon persons or property, by any statute, rule, ordinance, regulation, or court order, excluding delivery by the mails of the United States. This defense applies only if the actor did not enter into a private residence or other building not open to the public and the entry onto the premises was reasonable and necessary for service of the legal process.​

 

[MrsDuck]

My father carries. He leaves his gun in the in-room safe at Disney. It doesn't come out until he leaves property to go home.

 

[LYSE]

Again, it depends on the law, and I specifically noted the interpretation of the Seattle City Attorney. That stated that a courtesy request to leave is typical but hinted that it’s not necessary to establish criminal trespass. Washington law is more expansive about trespassing and doesn’t require that one be asked to leave in a business already open to the public. Failure to comply with conditions made to enter could result in a trespassing charge.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.090

RCW 9A.52.090
Criminal trespass—Defenses.
In any prosecution under RCW 9A.52.070 and 9A.52.080, it is a defense that:
(1) A building involved in an offense under RCW 9A.52.070 was abandoned; or
(2) The premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
(3) The actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him or her to enter or remain; or
(4) The actor was attempting to serve legal process which includes any document required or allowed to be served upon persons or property, by any statute, rule, ordinance, regulation, or court order, excluding delivery by the mails of the United States. This defense applies only if the actor did not enter into a private residence or other building not open to the public and the entry onto the premises was reasonable and necessary for service of the legal process.​

We should probably keep the discussion limited to Florida Law and California law since that's where we are talking about (actually mostly WDW and FL law)

Not sure why we would talk about Washington State Law when there is no Disney resort there?

 

[dreiwhit]

your second amendment rights don't apply on private property. Please tell me how I'm wrong. I don't mind being wrong and learning new things at all, so go ahead. I won't bite.

US courts have ruled that the rights of private property owners diminish as you allow the public access to their private property. The specific case I have in mind pertains to shopping malls, but I can't remember the specific name of the case - i'll have to look it up.

Regarding private property and carrying firearms, it depends entirely on the state and each state is different. For example, in the state where I live, to legally prevent someone from carrying a firearm or other weapons on the property of your business, the business owner would have to install metal detectors/key card access/turnstiles/etc AND have a security officer or law enforcement present. If a person carrys a weapon on the property that has those security measures, they can be arrested for carrying a weapon. If the business does not have those methods present, they can not legally prohibit the carrying of firearms or any other weapons, nor have someone arrested for carrying a weapon. The business can post a "no weapons" sign, but it does not have the force of law. However, if you are discovered carrying a weapon, you can be asked to leave. If you refuse to leave, you can be subject to being legally trespassed (barred in the future) from the business. That is legally trespassing for refusing the leave, not for carrying a weapon.

Also, there are specific locations listed in my state's law where carrying a firearms is prohibited, and you are subject to arrest for carrying a weapon, but these are locations like municipal, county, state and Federal facilities, and the secure areas of airports.

As for private, non business property in my state, there are no laws prohibiting the carrying of weapons. If you invite someone into your home and they are carrying a weapon, you can ask them to leave, but you can't have them arrested for bringing a weapon into your house.

Federal law is different. With some exceptions, you can be fined or jailed for carrying a weapon into a Federal facility. But, that is Federal only, and does not apply to private businesses.

Not sure why we would talk about Washington State Law when there is no Disney resort there?

One of the persons posting in this forum made a blanket statement about 2nd Amendment rights not applying on private property. Since it was a blanket statement, examples that show that is not the case from different locations are relevant.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Again, it depends on the law, and I specifically noted the interpretation of the Seattle City Attorney. That stated that a courtesy request to leave is typical but hinted that it’s not necessary to establish criminal trespass. Washington law is more expansive about trespassing and doesn’t require that one be asked to leave in a business already open to the public. Failure to comply with conditions made to enter could result in a trespassing charge.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.090

RCW 9A.52.090
Criminal trespass—Defenses.
In any prosecution under RCW 9A.52.070 and 9A.52.080, it is a defense that:
(1) A building involved in an offense under RCW 9A.52.070 was abandoned; or
(2) The premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
(3) The actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him or her to enter or remain; or
(4) The actor was attempting to serve legal process which includes any document required or allowed to be served upon persons or property, by any statute, rule, ordinance, regulation, or court order, excluding delivery by the mails of the United States. This defense applies only if the actor did not enter into a private residence or other building not open to the public and the entry onto the premises was reasonable and necessary for service of the legal process.​

If there is no other criminal act, it's not trespassing.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't pay $5,000 to go to Target.

Paying $5000 makes you more afraid to be around guns? I am not sure I get the connection there.

 

[DLgal]

My father carries. He leaves his gun in the in-room safe at Disney. It doesn't come out until he leaves property to go home.

That's not a very safe place to keep a gun. Those safes get broken into by hotel staff all the time.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I fail to see a reason to bring a weapon to a Walt Disney World park or resort.

 

[luvsJack]

I fail to see a reason to bring a weapon to a Walt Disney World park or resort.

I don't understand it either. I do, however, understand some wanting their gun on the drive to Orlando. Our drive is 10 hours so we drive straight through and dh doesn't take his gun. But as a truck driver, dh does carry normally when he is on the road so if we were stopping in some more unknown area, he may be inclined to take his gun.

 

[LYSE]

I fail to see a reason to bring a weapon to a Walt Disney World park or resort.

Then don't bring a gun.

I don't understand it either. I do, however, understand some wanting their gun on the drive to Orlando. Our drive is 10 hours so we drive straight through and dh doesn't take his gun. But as a truck driver, dh does carry normally when he is on the road so if we were stopping in some more unknown area, he may be inclined to take his gun.

Yeah, if I was doing nothing but WDW I probably wouldn't bother but on my next two trips we will be doing things other than Disney and plan on making use of my permit all over Florida and Georgia.