car seat question, high backed booster for 3 year olds?

[NotUrsula]

It's not Bev's original question, but there's a misconception floating through this thread regarding enforcement in states other than the one where your vehicle is registered.

In a situation where you are driving your own personal vehicle through a state where the laws are more restrictive than your own, you will NOT be ticketed for failing to obey that state's stricter carseat laws in terms of equipment. You would be let off with a warning if you were stopped at all. Special local safety/emissions equipment laws regarding privately owned automobiles are only really enforceable when the vehicle is registered in that state, or at least regularly driven in that state. (Now, moving violations are another matter; for moving violations, local laws apply in all circumstances.)

You would be in trouble if you had an 11 mo old standing up in the back seat, obviously, because that violates the law in EVERY US state. But if your car is registered in PA and you happen to drive it through NJ, the NJ hwy. patrol is not going to ticket you just for failing to comply with the specific stricter standard that applies to vehicles registered in NJ. No state will do that, as the ticket won't hold up in court, and issuing unenforceable tickets is a total waste of time and resources.

As to Bev's question, the answer is that the seat *is* acceptable under current Florida law. There is currently no mention of a 5-pt. harness in the law at all, regardless of the age of the child.
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/in..._Statute&Search_String=&URL=CH0316/Sec613.HTM

 

[tjmw2727]

I think the sticky point here is "appropriate child safety seat" I haven't seen any mention of 3pt or 5 pt harness in any of the state laws.

If I am using my safety seat correctly and my child fits the guidelines of the seat than I think I meet not only my requirements but the "laws" requirements. I believe my 38lb 7yo who exceeds the height maximum of her safety seats 5 pt harness (42") is very safe in the seat as a belt positioning booster. It is rated for 40" and 30-to 60 lbs without the 5 point.

If I drive through Maine or any other state with the new laws I can't imagine being ticketed for using my seat safely and properly, not to mention with a 7yo!

I also can't imagine having to spend upwards of $175 for a new seat to have her in a 5 point to 80 lbs.

To get back to the OP if she has this seat and her 3yo meets the height and weight guidelines to use the seat, it seems from everything I have read (lots) it meets FL law. I believe that's the questions posed. If she already owns this seat and it will meet her needs long term why should she spend $200 for a carseat to be used a week or so on a Florida vacation?


TJ

(edited 'cause I can't spell!)

 

[camrynmami]

I believe it was Jel0511 who said that "my SIL lives in PA, which does not (only under 3 had to be restrained in a car seat)".

This information is very wrong. A law was passed and became effective 2/21/2003 that now states that: "Children under 4 years of age are required to use a child restraint device. Nonuse is a primary offense. Children 4 to under 8 years of age are required to use a booster seat. It is a secondary offense. The fine is a sliding fine up to $100.00. The money will continue to go into a fund to purchase child safety seats for loaner programs that distribute child safety seats across Pennsylvania. Charges may be dismissed by the District Justice if proof of purchase or loan of a child passenger safety seat/booster seat is introduced into evidence."

PROPER CHILD SAFETY USE CHART

Buckle Everyone. Children Age 12 and Under in Back!

INFANTS: Birth to 1 year AND at least 20 pounds. Infant-only or rear-facing convertible. Rear-facing only. Harness straps at or below the shoulder level. Infants should never travel behind an airbag.

TODDLER: Over 1 year and 20 pounds. Forward-facing Convertible OR any seat equipped with a harness rated to at least 40 pounds. Forward-facing. Harness straps should be at or above the shoulders. Most convertible seats require the harness in the top slot for forward facing. The booster seat assures that the lap portion rides low across the thigh area and the shoulder belt fits snug crossing the chest.


UNDER 4’9” and 80 POUNDS: Over 40 pounds. Ages 4 to 8 years.
Belt-positioning booster seat. Forward-facing. The booster seat assures that the lap portion rides low across the thigh area and the shoulder belt fits snug crossing the chest.
All children 12 years and under should travel in the back seat.
Belt-positioning booster seats MUST be used with lap/shoulder belts.

All children 12 years and under should travel in the back seat.

 

[jel0511]

Carissa - Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know about the new law that was put into effect in PA (my SIL didn't tell me), I'll be sure that my SIL knows about it. As you all can see, PA's law is the same as NJ's, which requires a child who is under 40 lbs, regardless of age to be in a 5 point harness not a belt positioning booster. FL's law is the same, but their booster requirement "expires" at age 5, not age 8 like the more restrictive states.

 

[tw1nsmom]

I'm not from PA, but reading what was previously posted :

[Harness straps should be at or above the shoulders. ]

I want to point out that if you have a child that is under 40 pounds, but too tall for a five point harness, then that law appears to state that you should switch to using a booster seat. Being too tall or heavy for a five point harness can be dangerous for a child.

 

[jel0511]

tw1nsmom - there are 5 point harnesses that are on the market that do go up to even higher then the 40 lbs limit and do have an increase height allowance for them, mainly for children who are over 4 but have yet reached the 40 lbs limit. The Britax Marathon is one, and it's approved for children up to 49 inches tall. That would allow an older child who is under the 40 lbs limit, but is taller to remain in the 5 point harness until over 40 lbs.

 

[tjmw2727]

I still don't understand where you are finding the "5 point harness" requirment in these laws. Nothing I have read, regarding the laws in my state of MA as well as the state the OP was inquiring about. FL law does not mention a 5 point harness at all.

What about a T sheild, Overhead shield or 3 point harness are they "illegal" to?

For the OP's question the FL law said:

Every operator of a motor vehicle as defined herein, while transporting a child in a motor vehicle operated on the roadways, streets, or highways of this state, shall, if the child is 5 years of age or younger, provide for protection of the child by properly using a crash-tested, federally approved child restraint device.


I still think that the seat in the original post meets FL requirements. Where does it say that a belt positioning booster does not meet the laws requirements?

Here is New Jersey

<<<
New Jersey

1.Every person operating a motor vehicle, other than a school bus, equipped with safety belts who is transporting a child under the age of eight years and weighing less than 80 pounds on roadways, streets or highways of this State, shall secure the child in a child passenger restraint system or booster seat, as described in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard Number 213, in a rear seat. If there are no rear seats, the child shall be secured in a child passenger restraint system or booster seat, as described in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard Number 213 . >>

I am 100% for child safety seats, my 7yo is (unfortunately) one of a very few in her class that use one. However recommendations that parents of 5-8yo's who have perfectly safe seats that can be used safely for their children go out and spend another $200 is a bit over the top. I think that the leglislature should slow down a bit if they are going to require an 8yo 80lb person be in a 5 point harness seat that isn't even readily manufactured and available yet.

TJ

 

[mudnuri]

In a situation where you are driving your own personal vehicle through a state where the laws are more restrictive than your own, you will NOT be ticketed for failing to obey that state's stricter carseat laws in terms of equipment. You would be let off with a warning if you were stopped at all. Special local safety/emissions equipment laws regarding privately owned automobiles are only really enforceable when the vehicle is registered in that state, or at least regularly driven in that state. (Now, moving violations are another matter; for moving violations, local laws apply in all circumstances.)

Your wrong about this at least in Vermont.

The "click it or ticket" program that I mentioned in an early post, is the exact program that will get you not only pulled over, but also with a ticket, and 4 points on your license. There is signage at all entries into vermont with the mandatory seatbelt law....regardless of if the kids law is posted- you will get pulled over and ticketed if your an adult and have not "clicked it"..

On I-91 over the past winter and fall seasons, the Higway Dept has put up the light up signs, normally used for construction that state "click it or ticket"....and trust me,
YOU WILL GET A TICKET!!! and it will stand up in court.

Brandy

 

[NotUrsula]

"The "click it or ticket" program that I mentioned in an early post, is the exact program that will get you not only pulled over, but also with a ticket, and 4 points on your license. There is signage at all entries into vermont with the mandatory seatbelt law....regardless of if the kids law is posted- you will get pulled over and ticketed if your an adult and have not "clicked it".."

You were not paying attention to what I said. I did not say that persons driving through a state can ignore the seat belt laws. What I said was that they will not currently get ticketed for not having a 5-pt harness on a booster seat. Do you have to buckle the child into a seat restraint? Yes. Do you have to have a carseat if the child is small? Yes. Does it have to be a specific style of carseat? Not if the car isn't registered in that state.

It just isn't practically possible to enforce such a law while such a vast array of carseat styles are still readily available in stores. Troopers can't be responsible for keeping track of the various models of available carseat and estimating the weight/height of every child they see in a vehicle. Are they going to carry a yardstick in the prowler and make every kid get out on the side of the road to be measured? There's a disaster waiting to happen for you. As long as you are using a restraint device, and using it properly in a manner consistent with the mfrs. recommendations, I believe that it is extremely unlikely that any citation would be issued.

It's one thing for an officer to see a small child bopping around loose in a car, but another to be able to tell the child's age/weight at a glance to determine if a 5-pt. harness is required. If the car is local they have some recourse.