Car seat location on the plane?!

[Carrieannew]

I asked this over on the trasportation board but thought I might get quicker answers over here. We are flying Southwest

I did a quick google search but was not fully understanding. I am traveling with my son (15 months at the time) and my daughter who will turn 13 on our trip.

I purchased seats for all of us. And I will be bringing his car seat. But my question is does the seat have to go by the window or can it go in the middle seat?

Thanks!

 

[Minniemouse07]

The car seat needs to be against the window. This is so the car seat doesn't block anyone from exiting in the case of emergency. You also can't be seated in the emergency row ...or (I think) the rows on either side of the emergency row.

I would suggest placing your dd in the row in front of him, in the window seat.

Also... having the car seat rear facing will allow him to face you for the entire trip and interact as needed (easier on your neck as well! ).

There is some great info about how to install/use your car seat on planes here.

 

[Carrieannew]

The car seat needs to be against the window. This is so the car seat doesn't block anyone from exiting in the case of emergency. You also can't be seated in the emergency row ...or (I think) the rows on either side of the emergency row.

I would suggest placing your dd in the row in front of him, in the window seat.

Also... having the car seat rear facing will allow him to face you for the entire trip and interact as needed (easier on your neck as well! ).

There is some great info about how to install/use your car seat on planes here.

Perfect! That is what I needed. I thought I had read it had to be installed by the window. He is still rear facing in the car and will be till at least 2. So rear facing in the plane should be no problem. I'm not sure she is going to want to sit in front of him. But if he is rear facing it shouldnt be a problem.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Hello CT neighbor!

Whether or not you must install in the window seat is open to interpretation. If you are in a row with 3 seats and only your family is in those seats it's likely you'll be able to install it in the center if that's what you'd prefer ONLY if you or dd will be able to safely exit past the car seat.

If it's rear-facing (which would be ideal in terms of ease of interacting with your ds as a pp said) then the window seat will likely be required.

If, however, you will not install it rear-facing or if you only have a forward-facing seat, then it's likely he can go between you.

 

[Carrieannew]

Hello CT neighbor!

Whether or not you must install in the window seat is open to interpretation. If you are in a row with 3 seats and only your family is in those seats it's likely you'll be able to install it in the center if that's what you'd prefer ONLY if you or dd will be able to safely exit past the car seat.

If it's rear-facing (which would be ideal in terms of ease of interacting with your ds as a pp said) then the window seat will likely be required.

If, however, you will not install it rear-facing or if you only have a forward-facing seat, then it's likely he can go between you.

Hey Neighbor!!!!

Ok my ideal is to have him rear facing between the both of us. Hopefully it will work that way. If not he will go by the window.

thanks!

 

[kimkoz]

Yes, he must be in the window seat. We were told even though we had all 3 seats that for safety reasons the car seat had to be in the window.

I took our son at 20 months and honestly didn't even think about rear facing.. We just did forward. I didn't even consider it, hmm.. wonder if those rules or safetly is different. Sorry no help with that one. However I can tell you that we did foward, and he was no where close to hitting the seat in front of him. He was a long child too. Maybe if the tray was down but we never really need it with him. We put our middle tray down and just stored things on that.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Hey Neighbor!!!!

Ok my ideal is to have him rear facing between the both of us. Hopefully it will work that way. If not he will go by the window.

thanks!

What kind of car seat is it? That can make a difference in how upright you can get it installed. And how small is your 13 yo. If it's a seat you can get in very upright, and your teen is thin, and you can demonstrate that she has no problems exiting past the seat it might be ok. Southwest does not have any rules stated on their website. I've posted the FAAs official word on the subject below, it might be helpful to print it out if you really want him in the center. (And I forgot to say earlier...go you for having him still rear-facing in the car!!! )

See page 11, Items # 18 and 19:

"18. PLACEMENT OF CRS ON THE AIRCRAFT. CRSs must be installed in forward-facing aircraft seats, in accordance with instructions on the label. This includes placing the CRS in the appropriate forward or aft-facing direction as indicated on the label for the size of the child. A window seat is the preferred location; however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress of any passenger, including the child’s parent or guardian, to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft. The regulations contained in §§ 91.107, 121.311, 125.211, and 135.128 allow aircraft operators to determine the most appropriate passenger seat location for CRSs based on safe operating practices. In making this determination, an aircraft operator should consider the following:

a. Aisle Seats. CRSs should not be placed in an aisle seat because this placement has the highest risk of slowing down the passenger flow rate during an evacuation. For example, a parent or guardian traveling with the child in a CRS may step out into the aisle to release the child from the CRS or the CRS may impede flight attendants who may need to climb over the top of aisle seats to get past passengers in the aisle to reach an emergency exit."

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/60d70126cf679d5a8625723b007841e7/$FILE/AC%20120-87A.pdf

I took our son at 20 months and honestly didn't even think about rear facing.. We just did forward. I didn't even consider it, hmm.. wonder if those rules or safetly is different.

Kim, do you have him still rear-facing in the car? If not, you might want to consider turinng him back around. There is a huge difference in safety for young children, rear-facing is 5 times safer.

In a plane, the same rules apply to an extent. But more so, rear-facing in a car seat allows for easier interaction and the child's ability to use their lap to hold things...often tray tables will not come down fully as they interfere with the car seat itself.

 

[Carrieannew]

What kind of car seat is it? That can make a difference in how upright you can get it installed. And how small is your 13 yo. If it's a seat you can get in very upright, and your teen is thin, and you can demonstrate that she has no problems exiting past the seat it might be ok. Southwest does not have any rules stated on their website. I've posted the FAAs official word on the subject below, it might be helpful to print it out if you really want him in the center. (And I forgot to say earlier...go you for having him still rear-facing in the car!!! )

Kim, do you have him still rear-facing in the car? If not, you might want to consider turinng him back around. There is a huge difference in safety for young children, rear-facing is 5 times safer.

In a plane, the same rules apply to an extent. But more so, rear-facing in a car seat allows for easier interaction and the child's ability to use their lap to hold things...often tray tables will not come down fully as they interfere with the car seat itself.

Thank you! It's hard when everyone around feels that I am just being silly and nothing will happen if I turn him around. He is still rear-facing in the middle till at least 2 if not longer. I will not change my mind about that.

At home he has a Britax seat he uses. But my plan for the trip is to use the 3rd carseat I bought as a spare for my brother/SIL which is a Costco Scena. The Britax is a monster and too heavy.

He is also below 25% in weight and at his 1 year checkup was 20.8 lbs.

My daughter is also average just tall. My plan will be to put her by the window as she should have no problem getting past the car seat in the event of a problem and me in the aisle.

 

[DZNEE4US]

We have twins and have flown multiple times with them. We have usually put one boy in between my daughter and I. My husband has sometimes had to defend this w/ the flight attendants. He has said over and over that WE WILL NOT GET OFF OF THIS PLANE WITHOUT MY DAUGHTER. He is more "vocal" than me, and once a F.A. showed him her manual, and it said that the window seat is the "preferred" location- not mandatory. Since he was "aware" of this, she then let us do what we wanted. I am SO glad my sons will be 4 next trip, and I won't have to have them in those seats. Flying is SO much fun with children!

 

[Bren's Mom]

Thank you! It's hard when everyone around feels that I am just being silly and nothing will happen if I turn him around. He is still rear-facing in the middle till at least 2 if not longer. I will not change my mind about that.

At home he has a Britax seat he uses. But my plan for the trip is to use the 3rd carseat I bought as a spare for my brother/SIL which is a Costco Scena. The Britax is a monster and too heavy.

He is also below 25% in weight and at his 1 year checkup was 20.8 lbs.

My daughter is also average just tall. My plan will be to put her by the window as she should have no problem getting past the car seat in the event of a problem and me in the aisle.

And you are absolutely RIGHT...don't let anyone change your mind! My son was rear-facing until 3, and was turned because he'd reached the weight limit on his seat. If he was turning 3 now he likely wouldn't be turned yet, because there are so so many new reasonably priced higher rear-facing weight seats on the market. But I felt comfortable with it at 3. If you ever need additional 'back up' on keeping him rear-facing, feel free to PM. I can't be too far from you, CT is just not that big...LOL...and I'm a CPST. I'd be happy to give you whatever studies/backup you need.

Taking the Cosco Scenera is perfect!

Good luck, hope you have a knowledgeable flight attendant and a safe, comfortable trip!

 

[Carrieannew]

And you are absolutely RIGHT...don't let anyone change your mind! My son was rear-facing until 3, and was turned because he'd reached the weight limit on his seat. If he was turning 3 now he likely wouldn't be turned yet, because there are so so many new reasonably priced higher rear-facing weight seats on the market. But I felt comfortable with it at 3. If you ever need additional 'back up' on keeping him rear-facing, feel free to PM. I can't be too far from you, CT is just not that big...LOL...and I'm a CPST. I'd be happy to give you whatever studies/backup you need.

Taking the Cosco Scenera is perfect!

Good luck, hope you have a knowledgeable flight attendant and a safe, comfortable trip!

I live in Plainville!

Thank you! It sure is going to be interesting. Most people think I am crazy for taking both kids solo. I am a single parent everyday so being a single parent in Disney is no different to me. I have many trips under my belt.

 

[NotUrsula]

...
Whether or not you must install in the window seat is open to interpretation. If you are in a row with 3 seats and only your family is in those seats it's likely you'll be able to install it in the center if that's what you'd prefer ONLY if you or dd will be able to safely exit past the car seat.

If it's rear-facing (which would be ideal in terms of ease of interacting with your ds as a pp said) then the window seat will likely be required.

If, however, you will not install it rear-facing or if you only have a forward-facing seat, then it's likely he can go between you.

Only on Delta. It is open to interpretation, but that's the AIRLINE'S interpretation (see below), and of the US carriers, the only one that interprets it that way is Delta. IME, Every other airline will insist on the window position for any carseat, regardless of how large it is or which way it is facing. Southwest DEFINITELY will insist on the window.

See page 11, Items # 18 and 19:

"18. PLACEMENT OF CRS ON THE AIRCRAFT. CRSs must be installed in forward-facing aircraft seats, in accordance with instructions on the label. This includes placing the CRS in the appropriate forward or aft-facing direction as indicated on the label for the size of the child. A window seat is the preferred location; however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress of any passenger, including the child’s parent or guardian, to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft. The regulations contained in §§ 91.107, 121.311, 125.211, and 135.128 allow aircraft operators to determine the most appropriate passenger seat location for CRSs based on safe operating practices. In making this determination, an aircraft operator should consider the following: ...

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...cf679d5a8625723b007841e7/$FILE/AC 120-87A.pdf

The red emphasis is mine. I highlighted the first one b/c the OP wants to rearface the seat. FA's will normally argue with you about rearfaceing a convertible seat, because it will prevent the passenger seated in front of you from reclining. Because of the way that that law is worded, be prepared to be forced to frontface the seat if your child is heavier/older than the label's recommended weight for rear-facing use. I know that various medical authorities and safety groups recommend rear-facing at higher weights, but the law allows the airline to insist on using the mfr. recommended weights, which are lower. If the FA insists on that standard, don't argue further; the law will be on her side and you can be ejected from the aircraft if you won't accept it.

The second bit of emphasis is the part that allows airlines to create a rule that insists on more restrictive placement of the carseat than the law sets forth. It is this section that also allows them to restrict which ROWS the seat can be placed in (other than exit rows, which are a given, of course.) On all US-based carriers that I know of, carseats may not be placed in the rows directly in front of or directly behind the exit row, either, on the grounds that having them in those rows could make evacuation more difficult.

 

[Minniemouse07]

The red emphasis is mine. I highlighted the first one b/c the OP wants to rearface the seat. FA's will normally argue with you about rearfaceing a convertible seat, because it will prevent the passenger seated in front of you from reclining. Because of the way that that law is worded, be prepared to be forced to frontface the seat if your child is heavier/older than the label's recommended weight for rear-facing use. I know that various medical authorities and safety groups recommend rear-facing at higher weights, but the law allows the airline to insist on using the mfr. recommended weights, which are lower. If the FA insists on that standard, don't argue further; the law will be on her side and you can be ejected from the aircraft if you won't accept it.

The second bit of emphasis is the part that allows airlines to create a rule that insists on more restrictive placement of the carseat than the law sets forth. It is this section that also allows them to restrict which ROWS the seat can be placed in (other than exit rows, which are a given, of course.) On all US-based carriers that I know of, carseats may not be placed in the rows directly in front of or directly behind the exit row, either, on the grounds that having them in those rows could make evacuation more difficult.

This is part of the reason I suggested the PP's older dd sit in the row in front of the rear facing child.

We had an FA push back on us (on USAirways) telling us that dd's convertible couldn't be rear facing..."only infant seats" on one trip.

I was prepared with the sticker on the seat and manufacturer's instructions that said to rear face until 33lbs (the requirements of the seat at the time) and that she was only 21lbs.

OP...you said your son was tiny and barely 20lbs right? Most convertibles (not all) don't allow forward facing until 22lbs...but either way if you point out the portion of the manufacturer's instructions with the higher rear facing weight you should be okay.

After we pushed back on the FA successfully regarding the manufacturer's instructions, she then moved on to the passenger in front of the seat being inconvenienced by not being able to put their seat back. Before I could even say a word..the passenger in question piped up and told the FA that it wasn't a problem for him (I could have kissed him!).

Now when traveling w/ two kids.. dd was 6.5yo for ds's first trip when he was 2yo.. we placed dd in front of ds and didn't tell dd she could recline her seat!

This way the FA doesn't have any reason to complain.

SO... all that to say. For the least amount of chance for FA pushback about the car seat, the best set up would be for mom in the center, rear facing car seat in the window and older dd in the row in front of them in the window seat.

 

[haleyknits]

We have always put the car seat by the window in the last row of the plane. I have had several arguments with flight attendants who think they know everything. I was 7 months pregnant (and the size of a whale lol) when I took my 1.5 year old dd to Texas. It was just her, me and her Britax Marathon. I got the seat belt extender and installed rear facing since she was 17 pounds. The FA argued with me and had another FA come over to see what the commotion was. Of course I got my way. I can only imagine the fight now since dd is 3.5 and still rf. She is only 26 pounds.

eta: Just saw that you are flying southwest. That was who we flew with. Just stand your ground and you'll be fine

 

[MayzDisney4]

We had had my son at the window or in the middle seat. I remember being told we just can't put the car seat in the aisle seat.

This coming trip we have 6 total flying, so my son will be between myself and my husband. Even though I have already been told I am crazy putting a 4 year old in a car seat on the plane.

 

[eyor44]

The last time we flew with DD in a car seat she wanted to sit between us. I prefer the window so I can prop up and sleep. AFTER we got the seat installed and her locked in a FA came up (she watched the whole time) and said she had to be by the window. I asked for the regulations, which she couldn't provide and just said "in an emergency we want you to be able to get out." To which I responded "Trust me, in an emergency I will be up and over that thing in a heart beat." She walked away and didn't say another word.

 

[Bren's Mom]

The red emphasis is mine. I highlighted the first one b/c the OP wants to rearface the seat. FA's will normally argue with you about rearfaceing a convertible seat, because it will prevent the passenger seated in front of you from reclining. Because of the way that that law is worded, be prepared to be forced to frontface the seat if your child is heavier/older than the label's recommended weight for rear-facing use. I know that various medical authorities and safety groups recommend rear-facing at higher weights, but the law allows the airline to insist on using the mfr. recommended weights, which are lower. If the FA insists on that standard, don't argue further; the law will be on her side and you can be ejected from the aircraft if you won't accept it.

The second bit of emphasis is the part that allows airlines to create a rule that insists on more restrictive placement of the carseat than the law sets forth. It is this section that also allows them to restrict which ROWS the seat can be placed in (other than exit rows, which are a given, of course.) On all US-based carriers that I know of, carseats may not be placed in the rows directly in front of or directly behind the exit row, either, on the grounds that having them in those rows could make evacuation more difficult.

There isn't a medical authority or safety group on the planet that recommends rear-facing at a weight HIGHER than what is stated on the car seat. I think there's a little confusion there somewhere, perhaps it's how you worded it. Infant carriers are rear-facing only, with weights ranging from 4-35lbs. Convertible seats all have rear-facing weights from 5-45 lbs and forward facing weights from 20-80lbs. ANY convertible seat on the market (US seat) will have a rear-facing weight limit of AT LEAST 30lbs so ANY convertible she chooses to bring will work for the op's child.

You are correct that about the exit rows, I only copied the most pertinent part, but did link the entire document so that it could be read by the op. However, I'm going to link also the update advisory here. This document clearly outlines that the airlines may choose which aircraft seat a car seat goes in (at their discretion) but may NOT refuse to allow a parent/caregiver to use the car seat if a ticket was purchased. Nor can they tell a parent with a child who falls within the weight limits of the seat that they cannot use it rear-facing.

If the op wants to put her 20lb child rear-facing in a Cosco Scenera, and she purchased a ticket for him, she is well within her rights. If she is assigned an exit row, or one ahead of or behind, they may choose to move her to a different location. If the rear-facing seat interferes with the seat in front, they may choose to move her to a bulk head seat. She does not have the right to refuse to change seats, this is at their discretion. But they do NOT have the right to tell her she MUST put the seat forward-facing, or not use it.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia...afety/info/all_infos/media/2009/info09002.pdf

 

[Brewmeister]

We have always put the car seat by the window in the last row of the plane. I have had several arguments with flight attendants who think they know everything. I was 7 months pregnant (and the size of a whale lol) when I took my 1.5 year old dd to Texas. It was just her, me and her Britax Marathon. I got the seat belt extender and installed rear facing since she was 17 pounds. The FA argued with me and had another FA come over to see what the commotion was. Of course I got my way. I can only imagine the fight now since dd is 3.5 and still rf. She is only 26 pounds.

How difficult is it to travel with the Britax Marathon? My DS (14 mo) has outgrown his old infant seat (quite a while ago) due to his height rather than weight, and he's been in the Marathon (rear facing) for a while now. We will be traveling in a couple of months and were thinking about getting a smaller convertible seat because the Marathon is huge and we were afraid that it would fit in an airline seat (we are traveling Alaska Air), but if the Marathon works, we will take it.

He's now 23lbs and about 31 inches tall, and will be even bigger (16 mo) when we travel to Disneyland this spring.

Thanks!

 

[NotUrsula]

There isn't a medical authority or safety group on the planet that recommends rear-facing at a weight HIGHER than what is stated on the car seat. I think there's a little confusion there somewhere, perhaps it's how you worded it. Infant carriers are rear-facing only, with weights ranging from 4-35lbs. Convertible seats all have rear-facing weights from 5-45 lbs and forward facing weights from 20-80lbs. ANY convertible seat on the market (US seat) will have a rear-facing weight limit of AT LEAST 30lbs so ANY convertible she chooses to bring will work for the op's child.

Yes, the issue is how I worded it; what I was really referring to was the mfr's base limit for front-facing installation. The Scenera is rated rear-facing from 5-35 and front-facing from 22-40. What I meant was that the FA's may interpret that as saying that there is no compelling reason to install it rear-facing as long as the child weighs more than 22 lbs, because the label states that it is safe to use front-facing at that weight.

The way that the law is worded does allow them to do this. The Airline can make any rule that they like about placement so long as it does not contradict the labeling, and insisting that you install it front-facing after 22lbs. doesn't actually do so. If the label says that it is OK both ways; the airline can insist on the one that they claim is best for "safe operations".

Remember that "safe operations" isn't just the rules of physics; passenger behavior also comes under that heading. (That is how they justify not allowing parents to sit in the exit row if they have a young child on board.) If the FA feels that letting you put the seat rear-facing when the child is large enough to ride front-facing poses a risk that the passenger seated in front of the carseat might get irate and cause a disturbance, that's a valid reason under the law.

 

[Minniemouse07]

How difficult is it to travel with the Britax Marathon? My DS (14 mo) has outgrown his old infant seat (quite a while ago) due to his height rather than weight, and he's been in the Marathon (rear facing) for a while now. We will be traveling in a couple of months and were thinking about getting a smaller convertible seat because the Marathon is huge and we were afraid that it would fit in an airline seat (we are traveling Alaska Air), but if the Marathon works, we will take it.

He's now 23lbs and about 31 inches tall, and will be even bigger (16 mo) when we travel to Disneyland this spring.

Thanks!

We have used a rear facing Boulevard (similar size to a Marathon) successfully on Southwest. No issues whatsoever.