Cannot believe this is happening. Teacher lied about my son.

[palavra]

As I said in an earlier post, you need to seriously consider changing schools or homeschooling because you will never feel you can trust the teachers or administration again. That would make for a very stressful year.

Good luck to you and your son.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

If the meeting did go as you say, it does seem there is a lot wrong at that school. At no point should the principal have discussed the other child with you. I cannot even have first and last names or pictures posted outside my room. I cannot share behaviors or diagnoses of any student with another parent. If I post student work, it can only have first names. I have had parents want to come in and watch their kids because of bad behavior on the kids' part, and even that gets very iffy because of confidentiality.

Special education status is confidential. Anything related to an IEP, and that includes the need for a para, is confidential. Educational information about yoru child is confidential and can only be shared with people who have an educational need to know. The school is really setting themselves up for a law suit by discussing that other student with you. I would definitely talk to the superintendent because htey would not have a leg to stand on. Particularly if you have that e-mail that discusses the other student and the need for hte para.

 

[5lilfish]

Wait, your child is in therapy because he feels "picked on" by his teacher??? I don't get that one at all. It seems to me that she would have to be doing some pretty horrible things, enough to get her fired, to cause a child to need therapy solely becuase of her. What is she donig to him that is so horrible??

As someone that had to seek therapy for my son because of a teacher, it does happen. My son't teacher was/is well liked by a good number of families. The more I looked into it, the more I discovered that she did not handle a particular type of kid well....Very bright, slightly hyper, outgoing, boys (for the record, except for this one year, my son has never had behavioral issues at school_. This teacher was never reprimanded for what my son went through. As a matter of fact, because I didn't realize just how badly my son was affected, and because I had 2 more kids to get though this school, I never even fought for any action. At the time, everything that happened was so subtle and it was a case of so many very small things adding up to a huge issue. I didn't want to be that parent and be accused of not believing my son could do wrong. Honestly, to this day, I don't think the teacher even knows how horrible she was. I don't even think she did it purposely. Even stranger....if you ask my son (who was 8 at the time and is now 13), he would probably tell you he liked this teacher. Even he wouldn't be able to put the blame on her for making him such an outcast and holding him responsible for things that he did not do. It was horrible. It's very hard to explain, but I know I will never let anything like this happen to my son or any of my kids again. Case in point...my younget children are 3 yr old twins. I just could not shake the feeling that their preschool environment was not good for them. I did not hesitate to move them w/i a month of the start of the year. Without any prompting on my part, since we have left that school and started at another, my girls have routinely asked me "We aren't going to the old school, right?" and I have overheard them say that, "The old school made me sad." This is 2 months AFTER we left. I will trust my gut for now on.

Jess

 

[bumbershoot]

What makes me the most sad about this whole thread is the amount of people telling me to not stand up for my son because "teacher's talk" and they will take it out on my son. How sad for a parent to have to choose between standing up for their own child, or letting it go because they don't want the consequence that is sure to come.

I totally agree. It's just pathetic that teachers will treat children differently based on things like this. Teachers should teach children and base grades on the work, and behave professionally and kindly at ALL times.

When I was a chiropractor, I treated my practice members well even when they weren't following my advice, and that's no different. I never was rude to someone just b/c they did something else. Teachers should learn to separate their personal feelings from their professional, NOT talk about children to others (positive or negative, IMO), and TEACH. it's ridiculous that anyone should have to worry about dying on hills just b/c they'll have years in schools...honestly none of this should even be passed along once it's taken care of.

You are assuming that this child needs 1:1 because he is a danger to himself or others.

Hannathy didn't actually say he needed the para because of being violent. She said "this and that", not "this because of that". If the boy twisted the OP's son's arm, then he IS a danger to others, because while 6 year old boys can be hard on each other when they BOTH want to be, when it's a one-sided thing they can also be quite sensitive. Twisting the arm, whether it's a joint twist or twisting the skin around (what's the phrase for that nowadays?), would be PAINFUL.

This is part of the problem with kids not growing up to respect adults. When I was young, if a kid got in trouble at school, they certainly didn't go home and tell their parents, otherwise they'd get in trouble at home, too!

Frankly, his story doesn't sound all that believable (saying "You're killing me.") Kids don't really talk that way these days. Sounds like your DS tried to cover his tracks by saying that.

My dad's mom didn't take his side, and my dad turned out abusive without trust in anyone. My mom took my side and I'm a generally nice person (did have to have some therapy from leftover nonsense from my dad) with trust, because I had someone on my side. I didn't respect my teachers because they constantly showed that they didn't DESERVE respect. They couldn't even remember my mom's last name! How sad is that? What if the teacher got married and I couldn't remember HER last name (assuming she changed it)? How quickly would I have gotten into trouble? (quickly, given my teachers) My paternal grandmother believed in respect even when they didn't deserve it...so she got her entire family PRETENDING that they loved and respected her, but really hating her (especially the children, she was MEAN)...my maternal grandmother was a doll who would have allowed us to tell her if she did anything wrong, and she got respect, love, and like from her grandchildren... Lip service for respect is useless IMO.


Any kid who has seen The Sandlot can easily pick up "you're killing me" (Smalls). That's where my son got it. He's 6. Says it when appropriate (or when he can get a laugh). Sometimes with "Smalls" at the end, sometimes not.

That woman was SO mean to me. I was a kid! A child!!! 10 years old for cripes sake! OMG I get chills thinking of the way she would glare at me. It was awful.

Long story not so short.... I hated school from that point on. My grades sucked, from that point on. They were even gonna hold me back in 7th grade, but my mom talked them out of it. In 2 years, I went from excelled classes, to being held back? No one thought "Gee, this is odd?", other than my mom?

(Trying to sum this up) That disgusting woman spoiled school for me. It was never the same, and I dropped out the DAY I turned 16.

I didn't have your big highs or your same lows, but I can definitely relate.

What do you see happening if she pursues this? Do you see the para admitting that she wasn't there? Because it's not going to happen. If there were no other witnesses, so cameras, there is no proof. Period.

So with THREE different stories, why are they going forth with ANY punishment for the OP's child?

You would really say that to a 6 year old? I'd just tell my child that I believe him, and that the teacher was mistaken. I'd never tell my child that a teacher has no authority over him or her, never. Let's set up our children to be teacher-haters, like there parents (and there are PLENTY of them on the dis). They're really successful in school.

I was basically successful in school, yet had NO love for my teachers. My teachers are the REASON I dislike the whole institution of school. I have many friends who are teachers, I read their vents on facebook, I talk to them in person, and I know ONE that seems to be a most excellent teacher. Funnily enough, she dropped out before graduation, got a GED...she did this after reading a book called something like Guerilla Homeschooling (not the actual name) and realizing she could LEARN so so so much more at home than at school, and she went and DID just that! We were stuck in prison memorizing and she went out and learned. I find it intriguing that she became a teacher, but I think she's probably just about the best at it b/c she knows what it's about, and it's NOT about punishing students for nonsense.

He also made an excuse that para's who are assigned children tend to become very close to them and really become their advocate, much like a mother hen. What? I AM this other child's mother and your sitting there telling me it is OK that this person lied because she is his advocate? Seriously?

In the end, I think we are pulling him and finding him a new school. I don't feel right in my gut sending him to this school anymore if this is the kind of stuff that goes on.

That's just awful, I'm so sorry.

... IMO, I think the Principal handled this very poorly and maybe it's time for him to retire ...

I agree.

This thread could go on forever, round and round in circles, so many differences of opinions. I am a great believer in gut instinct, if something doesn't feel right, it generally isn't. Just remind me NEVER to post anything other than general WDW related questions on here, because if I was the OP of this thread I would feel quite upset and shocked from some of the replies.

So the OP didn't get any good advice or kind words at all here?

Wait, your child is in therapy because he feels "picked on" by his teacher??? I don't get that one at all. It seems to me that she would have to be doing some pretty horrible things, enough to get her fired, to cause a child to need therapy solely becuase of her. What is she donig to him that is so horrible??

My son can burst into tears if I look at him wrong...if I were actually being mean to him on every day we do learning work (we homeschool mainly thanks to what I took away from the "teachers" I had) I'm quite sure he would benefit from counseling. Do you really think that an adult that spends 40 hours a week with a 6 year old is NOT going to have repercussions on the child's development? Heck, I had to take FMLA for myself, for my own mental health, thanks to my BOSS...again, 40 hours a week was spent with him, less one-on-one time than when I was in school...you bet your bippy I think a bad teacher will mess with a little kid's head!

 

[Minnie]

This is not to say that the para was not in violation of her duties or not socializing, but the point is, we don't know. Only she and the adult she was talking to know.

The issue is that the Principal stated that the para came clean - she lied - how in the world can the children be held accountable for their actions (no tolerance policies) when school staff is not

OP - Run don't walk to the Superintendent's office with the email and refuse to allow your child back into that teacher's classroom. Period.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I hope you don't give up, Kappy. I hope you can find a solution and a situation far removed from what your DS is in now. It's too much for a little boy to handle on his own.

And if you do have to go outside of the school system, I think that the school system should pay for it. They are not addressing a hostile environment. Look up educational advocates in your area online. I think you need one.

ETA- Here is an article that addresses how to choose an educational advocate. It is geared towards special needs, but primarily they can and do handle issues regarding a child's rights. It's important to have someone on your side that knows the laws and can speak directly to administration about these laws. Administrators do not want any legal messes and will be more willing to work with you if someone well versed that is on your side.

http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/education-281264-5.html

 

[Liberty Belle]

If the para is being paid to be with the child she should be with the child and that is what I would be asking the principal. Why was she not with him?
I would also tell my son to not be anywhere near this child. do not stand in line next to him, do not sit next to him, period and I would tell the teacher and principal the same thing. that I do not want my child near this child. And if he finds himself next to him he is to get out of line and go to the back of the line away from the child. I also think I would be stopping in a few lunches to see if the para was with him. I also would be telling my child that IF that child TOUCHES him in any way shape or form he is to immediately tell the teacher, lunch aid and me when he gets home. And if he hurts him to ask to go to the office so it is documented.

I do not go along with the no punishment, if the child is high enough functioning to be in a classroom then they need to follow the same rules and punishments. If he is hurting children he does not belong with them and the para should be fired if her job is to keep him from doing so.

I've been a one-on-one para for children before. Unfortunately, your duties include many other things than just caring for that one child. Sometimes you have to teach the whole class because the teacher is in a meeting. Often, you're in charge of the whole class for a little bit (when teacher steps out). I've never known a one-on-one para's duties to be only with the child she is assigned to.

 

[luvsJack]

I teach a self contained class and have a para who part of my classrom. Nobody knows what really happened. You have to decide if this is something you are willing to pursue. Do teachers talk? Yes. But most teachers will not take it out on a student. I have parents that I really do not like to deal with, but that does not mean that I treat their child any differently. From what I can see of my colleagues, they are the same. Not that it doesn't happen, but if it's that much of a concern, then maybe that is not a good fit for you.

As for the para being right there. In the lunch room my para and I help the students out. Several of them need assistance with their trays, but we do not stand right next to them in line. The line is quite crowded, and they need to learn independence. Typically, we stand back until they get to the food, although we are certainly monitoring.



As for the para being right there. In the lunch room my para and I help the students out. Several of them need assistance with their trays, but we do not stand right next to them in line. The line is quite crowded, and they need to learn independence. Typically, we stand back until they get to the food, although we are certainly monitoring and ready to step in if need be. You might even see us talking to each other or to the person monitoring the lunch room who is the other sped teacher. In these situations, we are not socializing. We are talking about work. I take several of the other sped kids who are not self contained, so I might have a question for her about them or about schedules. With my para, I might be filling him in on anything that came up while he was at lunch or we may be talking about what the rest of our day will look like.

This is not to say that the para was not in violation of her duties or not socializing, but the point is, we don't know. Only she and the adult she was talking to know.

I have worked in schools enough to know that many times those conversations you see going on really are about work, but many of them can and should take place at other times. Lunch is one of those times of the day where it is hard to get through without keeping your attention on the children or things like this happen. All of the conversations you mentioned may need to happen, but when you have a child that wanders off among other things; I just fail to see how lunch is the proper time for that.

It really doesn't matter what they were talking about though. She lied regardless and that is the biggest issue here.

I am not sure I would go as far as to change schools but I would certainly pursue this isse further than the principal.

 

[kappy]

We are afraid that if we go nay higher and keep him in the school, they will make it 100 times worse for him. We certainly don't want that.

We really are sick about all of this. There really is no good outcome to it. Either we pull him out of a school that he knows and where his friends are, or we keep him there and hope things get better with them knowing we are on their butts. There is no good choice. And how do you explain to a 6 year old who is already anxious that he is moving to a new school?

It is all so horrible and I hate that we are going through it. But we are, and we need to deal with it in the way that is in the best interest of my son.

 

[kappy]

Anyone know what my legal rights are? Can I demand a new teacher?

 

[Liberty Belle]

Anyone know what my legal rights are? Can I demand a new teacher?

I haven't read past the first page, so I don't know if a new teacher would be the best idea, but you certainly can talk to the principal and request one. I don't know if demanding would be the best idea. Keep in mind, though, that your little boy would be leaving all his classmates and it might be almost as bad as him starting a new school.

If I were you, (and, again, I haven't read past the first page), I'd just let everything blow over and keep a close on on everyone.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Kappy, read through this website.

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/advo.hostile.env.htm

There is a lot of good information there. Again, some is geared towards special needs but it does address rights. I do think you should reference your son is going to counseling and maybe if you have a meeting with the Superintendent, you should bring the counselor with you.

I hope for a better outcome for your child.

ETA- Overall, kids are resilient. It would be an adjustment as far as going to a new school. But it would be short term. A new slate would be much better than what he is dealing with now (from the top down).

 

[mjkacmom]

And if you do have to go outside of the school system, I think that the school system should pay for it. They are not addressing a hostile environment. Look up educational advocates in your area online. I think you need one.
http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/education-281264-5.html

What hostile environment? The OP mentioned other issues, but has not mentioned what they are. Arm twisting? Really? I had 2 boys, and they've been kicked, punched, and pushed at school, mostly in the younger grades, when boys just can't seem to keep their hands to themselves. Having a background in special education, it takes SO much effort to get a school district to bus a special education student to another district. Do you really think they're going to bus a typical functioning child to another district? Never going to happen.

As far as bringing it to the superintendent, the principal is going to admit that the para first lied, then fessed up, and then the principal lied to the parent, to get the matter dropped. The principal will admit that things were handled wrong. They will then get back to failing students, drugs on campus, underfunding, etc.

 

[Kathi OD]

Anyone know what my legal rights are? Can I demand a new teacher?

While I don't know the laws for every state, for a variety of reasons, I doubt this would be the case.

 

[OceanAnnie]

What hostile environment? The OP mentioned other issues, but has not mentioned what they are. Arm twisting? Really? I had 2 boys, and they've been kicked, punched, and pushed at school, mostly in the younger grades, when boys just can't seem to keep their hands to themselves. Having a background in special education, it takes SO much effort to get a school district to bus a special education student to another district. Do you really think they're going to bus a typical functioning child to another district? Never going to happen.

As far as bringing it to the superintendent, the principal is going to admit that the para first lied, then fessed up, and then the principal lied to the parent, to get the matter dropped. The principal will admit that things were handled wrong. They will then get back to failing students, drugs on campus, underfunding, etc.

1.) Ongoing issues involving the other child and "mother hen" reporting him.
2.) No history of behavioral issues until this year. Now he's on his last warning. Next will be "major consequences".
3.) Para lied. Was excused. Her story stands.
4.) Nothing to keep her from lying about her DS again, he's open to more accusations and "major consequences".
5.) He's in counseling for these issues.
6.) The principal admitted the lie, and that para is a "mother hen" defending her charge, yet will not work with the parents to resolve the issues. Son is in a lose-lose position.

ETA- I didn't mention the school busing the OP's child. I don't know how that would be negotiated. They haven't gotten past no for a classroom change yet.

 

[Hannathy]

Kappy move your child. do not let the he doesn't know anybody or have friends there stop you. When he is an environment that is a comfortable one instead of stress filled he will quickly make new friends. My DD moved to a new class at a new school within our district in 4th grade and didn't know anyone.
She for the first time was happy at school and met all new kids and is in college now and stayed friends with those kids all thru school even when some went to different High schools, and even now some of them are still her closest friends. And your little guy is younger.

I don't know your legal rights but I would think if you kept going up the chain of command you would be able to have your child get a new teacher. I know they try to not move kids for frivolous reasons or kids would be moved just for popularity reasons but I have seen kids moved for a lot less than what your child is experiencing.

 

[mjkacmom]

1.) Ongoing issues involving the other child and "mother hen" reporting him.
2.) No history of behavioral issues until this year. Now he's on his last warning. Next will be "major consequences".
3.) Para lied. Was excused. Her story stands.
4.) Nothing to keep her from lying about her DS again, he's open to more accusations and "major consequences".
5.) He's in counseling for these issues.
6.) The principal admitted the lie, and that para is a "mother hen" defending her charge, yet will not work with the parents to resolve the issues. Son is in a lose-lose position.

ETA- I didn't mention the school busing the OP's child. I don't know how that would be negotiated. They haven't gotten past no for a classroom change yet.

No history of behavioral issues - give me a break, the kid is 6, not much of a track record. The threat of major consequences is a stupid threat - the school isn't going to do anything (isn't that what most complain about - schools don't punish?). We have no idea why he's in counselling - the OP never said. What do you want the para to do to resolve these issues? Kid is off the hook (and I'm sure there is not a physical "mark" on his "permanant record.") I'm always curious as to why some parents seem to have SO many issues with their kids in school (a small percentage), and most have little to none. I think it's because some people have the over-react gene. Never a good thing, especially with moms of only children.

 

[OceanAnnie]

No history of behavioral issues - give me a break, the kid is 6, not much of a track record. The threat of major consequences is a stupid threat - the school isn't going to do anything (isn't that what most complain about - schools don't punish?). We have no idea why he's in counselling - the OP never said. What do you want the para to do to resolve these issues? Kid is off the hook (and I'm sure there is not a physical "mark" on his "permanant record.") I'm always curious as to why some parents seem to have SO many issues with their kids in school (a small percentage), and most have little to none. I think it's because some people have the over-react gene. Never a good thing, especially with moms of only children.

- First graders can and do have track records if they have posed problems.

- In regards to the threat of "major consequences", you don't know that they wouldn't do anything. Why say they are if they aren't? I would tend to believe them.

- The OP did mention why he is in counseling.

- Some parents have problems, because they are posed with problems. You can handle them or ignore them. Ignoring them does not guarantee the problems will get better. Depending on the problem, it can get worse.

Everyone has to parent as they see fit. I'll agree to disagree with you.

 

[Hannathy]

No history of behavioral issues - give me a break, the kid is 6, not much of a track record. The threat of major consequences is a stupid threat - the school isn't going to do anything (isn't that what most complain about - schools don't punish?). We have no idea why he's in counselling - the OP never said. What do you want the para to do to resolve these issues? Kid is off the hook (and I'm sure there is not a physical "mark" on his "permanant record.") I'm always curious as to why some parents seem to have SO many issues with their kids in school (a small percentage), and most have little to none. I think it's because some people have the over-react gene. Never a good thing, especially with moms of only children.

I'm not sure where your kids go to school but around here touching another student is an automatic suspension, uttering words that can be taken as a threat is a suspension and after a suspension guess what is next an expulsion and it does happen. a kid in my son's kindergarten class got a suspension for pushing someone.(and not violently) The principal said his hands were tied because it was reported he had to suspend the child.

 

[Kathi OD]

1.) Ongoing issues involving the other child and "mother hen" reporting him.The "mother hen" reported what her charge related to her. Not having first-hand knowledge, she shouldn't have done this. However, now that the "you-know-what" has hit the fan, I'd be willing to bet that she's going to be much more careful in the future.
2.) No history of behavioral issues until this year. Now he's on his last warning. Next will be "major consequences". ??? He's only in first grade! Not like he's got YEARS of no behavioral issues. While some kids have issues from the day they enter kindergarten, the vast majority do not. It would be the norm for a child in the 4th month of 1st grade to have no behavioral issues, not vice-versa. I sincerely doubt that now it has been established that the para lied, there will be "major consequences" next time.
3.) Para lied. Was excused. Her story stands. I'm not sure why you think her story stands since she has recanted.
4.) Nothing to keep her from lying about her DS again, he's open to more accusations and "major consequences". I doubt that she will be lying when it comes to this child again. There is no doubt in my mind that she's been called on the carpet for this.
5.) He's in counseling for these issues. The counseling is not just for this issue.
6.) The principal admitted the lie, and that para is a "mother hen" defending her charge, yet will not work with the parents to resolve the issues. Son is in a lose-lose position. Because the principal won't give in to the parents request to move DS to another classroom does not mean that he isn't willing to resolve the issue. There may (or may not) be actions being taken behind the scenes of which OP has no knowledge.

ETA- I didn't mention the school busing the OP's child. I don't know how that would be negotiated. They haven't gotten past no for a classroom change yet.

It's not a hostile environment...YET. If all the things you "think" are going to happen, ie. the para deliberately picking out OP's son for chastisement or blame, then you've got a hostile environment.

Now before it appears as though I'm totally on the school's side...I'm not. There are just a lot of unknowns here to be making blanket statements, especially with respect to how the OP's child will be treated in the future.
Believe me, I've had my fair share of dealing with schools and school personnel when my child, especially the youngest, has been treated unfairly.

If the OP is unhappy with the way the principal handled the situation with the para lying and his decision to not move her son, she has every right to speak with the superintendent about the matter. However, she should not expect to find out if and how the para was disciplined. That's a personnel matter that is protected by privacy laws.