CANADA SAYS 100% VACCINATED FOR CRUISES IN 2022

[PrincessShmoo]

I guess what I don't get about all this is since both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers can transmit the virus, why does this even matter anymore?

Because vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized and/or die if they get COVID.

Also, medical facilities are limited onboard, and not all ports will have adequate hospitals for removing sick patients to.

The cruise lines don't want a repeat of the scenario where multiple ships were denied porting that occurred early in the pandemic.

 

[tidefan]

Because vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized and/or die if they get COVID.

Also, medical facilities are limited onboard, and not all ports will have adequate hospitals for removing sick patients to.

The cruise lines don't want a repeat of the scenario where multiple ships were denied porting that occurred early in the pandemic.

While I get that, I just don't think there's much of a difference anymore between Vaccinated/Unvaccinated except for the hospitalization issue. I think that the 95% is reasonable, since most places allow for a small number of cases (see January of this year). This is why I don't get the logic of the 100% vaccination vs. the CDC's 95% threshold, which seems more reasonable to me.

Quite honestly, I think testing at the port would be a much more important mitigation than vaccination status as long as you kept it to something like the 5-10% range.

 

[tidefan]

One other thing to consider. What about those who have recovered from a prior infection? They will have been shown to also have a much lower risk of hospitalization, in fact, the European Union recognizes recovered status the same as vaccination (w/o booster).

Not to play Devil's Advocate (which, I guess I'm doing), but I am not sure for where we are now in the pandemic, these restrictions make as much sense as they did 6-12 months ago. Again, I personally think testing (preferably at the port) is much more important than vaccination or recovered status, since Omicron showed that both vaccinated and unvaccinated could transimit.

 

[Freeman867]

Because vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized and/or die if they get COVID.

Also, medical facilities are limited onboard, and not all ports will have adequate hospitals for removing sick patients to.

The cruise lines don't want a repeat of the scenario where multiple ships were denied porting that occurred early in the pandemic.

Exactly this. If you can't understand that all COVID cases aren't created equal and vaccination status severely limits the resource intensive cases, not sure where to help you.

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

Exactly this. If you can't understand that all COVID cases aren't created equal and vaccination status severely limits the resource intensive cases, not sure where to help you.

and healthy individuals under 65 are also shown to be very low risk to needing hospitalized also and that gets lower and lower as you go brown in age.

 

[tidefan]

Exactly this. If you can't understand that all COVID cases aren't created equal and vaccination status severely limits the resource intensive cases, not sure where to help you.

But it is a lot more nuanced than that. Under 12's are much less likely to get seriously ill regardless of vaccinated status. Also, you get some immunity from prior infection as well (the thought was this is one of the things that kept hospitalization levels so low in South Africa during Omicron). There are also fully vaccinated and boosted people that have died.

What the statistics show is that vaccination and prior infection (and youth) reduce (greatly) the risk of hospitalization. However, the tack here is just to pigeonhole into only vaccination. This is why I think the 5-10% unvaccinated, ESPECIALLY if most are children, is very reasonable, and the most effective way to prevent cases onboard (if that is the goal) is by testing at the port (not 2-3 days prior).

 

[tidefan]

Exactly this. If you can't understand that all COVID cases aren't created equal and vaccination status severely limits the resource intensive cases, not sure where to help you.

Also, to play Devil's Advocate, if we are looking to limit resource intensive cases, do we deny boarding to those in high risk categories? (Elderly, Diabetics, Moderate to Severely obese, Immunocompromised?)

Again, just trying to understand what the actual goal is here...

 

[Freeman867]

Also, to play Devil's Advocate, if we are looking to limit resource intensive cases, do we deny boarding to those in high risk categories? (Elderly, Diabetics, Moderate to Severely obese, Immunocompromised?)

Again, just trying to understand what the actual goal is here...

Perfect is the enemy of good here. Can DCL completely de-risk the situation? Not at all. This is the maddening part to me about the last 2 years. Are masks a perfect solution to stopping Covid? Nope. Do they work BETTER than no mask? Yep. Do vaccinations perfectly prevent infection and spread? Nope. Do they work BETTER than no vaccination? Yep.

People have just thrown out concepts because they aren't 100% fool proof and their friend's cousin's girlfriend's mom has a story going against the narrative, though they provide a HIGHER level of certainty to an outcome than not doing them at all.

In this specific example, instead of limiting cruise population to about 65% of Americans (not sure about this number and how kids who aren't eligible play into it) who are fully vaccinated, you begin to further weed out people. Over 55? Can't cruise. Diabetic? Can't cruise. BMI over 25? Can't cruise. Now instead of having 65% of the population eligible, you're down to some much lower number of eligible people and a much higher number of angry people and burned bridges and don't have the energy to even begin to guess what that is.

 

[AquaDame]

Also, to play Devil's Advocate, if we are looking to limit resource intensive cases, do we deny boarding to those in high risk categories? (Elderly, Diabetics, Moderate to Severely obese, Immunocompromised?)

Again, just trying to understand what the actual goal is here...

Highly recommend a place other than a cruise forum if you want to discuss health policy and epidemiology...

Lets get the thread back on track please as debate about efficacy of mandates is against the webmaster's board policy - https://www.disboards.com/threads/policy-on-covid-related-discussions.3840344/

 

[tidefan]

Highly recommend a place other than a cruise forum if you want to discuss health policy and epidemiology...

Lets get the thread back on track please as debate about efficacy of mandates is against the webmaster's board policy - https://www.disboards.com/threads/policy-on-covid-related-discussions.3840344/

Point taken. Was just trying to explain that there is rationale behind the US CDC 95% recommendation.

 

[jujubiee4]

I agree let us get back to topic at hand. None of us own DCL. A private company
makes their own rules.

Canada is beautiful place and hope to spend some time there if whether we go on Alaska
cruise or not.

Hope we get some clarification soon.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

I hope they clarify soon about kids under 5 for those of you with Alaskan cruises this summer. Ours are old enough to be fully vaxxed now, but when we went our youngest was only 3 and he still had a wonderful time.

 

[tvguy]

Also, to play Devil's Advocate, if we are looking to limit resource intensive cases, do we deny boarding to those in high risk categories? (Elderly, Diabetics, Moderate to Severely obese, Immunocompromised?)

Again, just trying to understand what the actual goal is here...

There is no central agency setting standards, so every port and country is going to set their own which hasn't changed since cruising restarted.

 

[TinkLoverSam]

As a Canadian with a 2 year old booked on the first Alaskan cruise of the season I await clarification with baited breath! I will say for most Canadian restrictions children not yet old enough to be vaccinated traveling with fully vaccinated parents have been treated like fully vaccinated people so we shall see what they actually mean.

 

[scrappinginontario]

This is a link to Canada's requirements for those entering Canada. https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid

 

[mullysisters]

As a Canadian with a 2 year old booked on the first Alaskan cruise of the season I await clarification with baited breath! I will say for most Canadian restrictions children not yet old enough to be vaccinated traveling with fully vaccinated parents have been treated like fully vaccinated people so we shall see what they actually mean.

As a Canadian travelling on DCL only the cruise line will determine if your 2 year old can sail. But things will change for sure. We are Canadian too only worried about testing positive at port(or before). We booked Alaska because it is the only cruise leaving from Canada. Re-entry into Canada requires a test but not for your daughter. (As of Feb 28th)

 

[TinkLoverSam]

As a Canadian travelling on DCL only the cruise line will determine if your 2 year old can sail. But things will change for sure. We are Canadian too only worried about testing positive at port(or before). We booked Alaska because it is the only cruise leaving from Canada. Re-entry into Canada requires a test but not for your daughter. (As of Feb 28th)

Actually if Transport Canada says cruise lines cannot sail with any unvaccinated passengers they will be setting the rules DCL must follow. He’s currently booked on the cruise but I know the EBPC was changed to be 100% fully vaxed after the fact and many families were forced to cancel and I’m crossing my fingers that isn’t the case for Alaska

 

[jujubiee4]

As a Canadian travelling on DCL only the cruise line will determine if your 2 year old can sail. But things will change for sure. We are Canadian too only worried about testing positive at port(or before). We booked Alaska because it is the only cruise leaving from Canada. Re-entry into Canada requires a test but not for your daughter. (As of Feb 28th)

So if it is roundtrip from Vancouver do you test on the ship before you get off?

 

[lanejudy]

So if it is roundtrip from Vancouver do you test on the ship before you get off?

Presumably... but DCL has not released their information yet. They've been waiting on Canada releasing the requirements. Hopefully info will be coming out soon.

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

So if it is roundtrip from Vancouver do you test on the ship before you get off?

Right now that is the assumption. I don't think that anyone knows for sure.

Psy