Can you give advice on how you would shoot this scene?

[MassJester]

I saw a picture on another thread, cleverly captured by a fellow member:

I was attracted to this image for several reasons:

• I LOVE the Flying Fish restaurant (I even have one of the red chef's caps )
• I've always found the scene depicted visually interesting
• I've taken similar shots with unspectacular results

The variety of light sources have always caused me difficulty -- the enterance and the awning can come out unattractively dark, while the rest of the image is popping.
My question:
How would you shoot this scene, or what would you do post capture?

 

[ukcatfan]

That is an interesting subject and is difficult to shoot. If you look close enough, you can tell that this shot is not that great either. It looks blurred and could not go much larger than it is displayed. The EXIF shows that it is the S2 IS at 13mm, no flash, F/3.5, and 1/8 sec. I cannot remember where Canon stores the ISO in the data, but it looks low.

I would have gone wider. The S2 starts at 8mm and this was shot at 13mm or almost 60mm is 35mm terms. I also would have used a wider aperture b/c with the S2 it is tough to narrow the DOF enough to make some of it out of focus. I might have used a fill flash to brighten up the entrance. I would also use a tripod b/c the IS is not powerful enough for handheld in my opinion. Lastly, I would have tried a different angle to try to keep the Boardwalk hotel lights out of it.

Kevin

 

[MassJester]

Thanks, Kevin. I found your thoughts interesting.

Do you think creating a mask to cover the brighter areas, and then lightening up the darker would be useful?

 

[ukcatfan]

That would be a good idea. If you want to go through post processing efforts, the best results could come from a HDR image. It might be tough keeping the scene the same for one of those at WDW though. In case you do not know what a HDR image is, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging.

Kevin

 

[MassJester]

That would be a good idea. If you want to go through post processing efforts, the best results could come from a HDR image. It might be tough keeping the scene the same for one of those at WDW though. In case you do not know what a HDR image is, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging.

Kevin

That's an interesting approach I hadn't considered. I've never actually used bracketing on a digital platform; do you know if there is a way to set a DSLR to create its own set of three or five bracketed images? (The answer to this might differ depending on make and model, I suppose) If so, I can see how that might be handy around WDW given the variety of lighting effects in play at night. The ability to go to a pre-established setting and fire off your bracketed shoot could make the difference between "this could be nice" and "ahhh, I can't be bothered. move on."

 

[ukcatfan]

I am not positive, but I would assume that any DSLR could do some bracketing. I believe that mine is three images. You do not have to do bracketing if you manual focus and shoot in manual mode. A remote shutter release would not hurt.

Kevin

 

[MassJester]

Perhaps I misunderstood the earlier post (not at all uncommon for me). I thought the editing solution you suggested for the selected scene would involve using layers of differently exposed images to achieve the single best result.

Therefore, given the Flying Fish scene, I might take a bracketed series from which, some might have the brigher elements somewhat over exposed, but give me the entryway and awning in a better light with which I would combine another shot where the brighter elements are propperly exposed.

 

[boBQuincy]

An HDR technique is one answer for this great a range of brightnesses. There is no way our cameras can capture the lit sign *and* the entryway with perhaps a 10 stop range.

*However*, just like photographing the moon and keeping the sky/landscape in balance, timing counts for a lot. This photograph could be sucessfully captured by choosing the right time of day, when the natural and artificial light are more in balance. A series, over maybe 30 minutes, is very likely to deliver one or more images with good balance.

Here is an example, taken in early evening:

 

[fitzperry]

Perhaps I misunderstood the earlier post (not at all uncommon for me). I thought the editing solution you suggested for the selected scene would involve using layers of differently exposed images to achieve the single best result.

Therefore, given the Flying Fish scene, I might take a bracketed series from which, some might have the brigher elements somewhat over exposed, but give me the entryway and awning in a better light with which I would combine another shot where the brighter elements are propperly exposed.

That's what I understood as well, but do you mind if I tack on another question?

Would you simply layer the images and vary their opacity in order to achieve the desired effect? Or do you "erase" the incorrectly exposed portions? The latter sounds like it would be quite a challenge. I sort of tried the former with an image in a rather dark stairwell with a small window in it, but I only had one image, so I adjusted the exposure in the raw file and created two versions (one that overexposed the window and one that correctly exposed the window but underexposed everything else) which I layered on top of each other. Not great, but it did produce a decent result.

 

[ukcatfan]

Some software has the ability to create the HDR image for you. I am not sure which ones have it, but I am pretty sure that CS2 does.

Kevin

 

[gruZ]

This product will do HDR for you. There is a trial version you can download, and I've seen some pretty impressive results from the full version.

You could try to do it in PS, either by blending the opacity of different layers or erasing parts of certain layers. A scene like the one above would probably be easier to erase / blend with PS, because there are more distince lines you would use as boundaries between layers. A landscape is more difficult due to the lack of lines.

And as mentioned above, some DSLR will do bracketing automatically. On the Canon 20D there is a menu option for AEB (auto exposure bracketing), where three successive pictures can be taken over a four stop range (-2, 0, and +2) at a maximum. Keep in mind for multiple shots like this, in order to blend successfully or use HDR software successfully, the images need to be as alike (other than exposure) as possible - meaning a tripod is very useful.

I've seen some fairly good attempts at using these techniques when using 1 image - taken in RAW - and then using the RAW editor to adjust exposure to create multiple files at different exposures that are then blended together. Not as good as using multiple original images, but still something to play with.

 

[rtphokie]

Even if you dont use them to create an HDR image, bracketed exposure would be good here. Grab multiple shots with different exposure levels, one of them is bound to be usable.

 

[jann1033]

Even if you dont use them to create an HDR image, bracketed exposure would be good here. Grab multiple shots with different exposure levels, one of them is bound to be usable.

ok for the more dense( ie me) you are saying bracket them but use only parts of each shot layered to make one photo, yes?...unless as the above says one of the 3 turns out usable anyway

 

[gruZ]

ok for the more dense( ie me) you are saying bracket them but use only parts of each shot layered to make one photo, yes?...unless as the above says one of the 3 turns out usable anyway

You got it. You then use the appropriately exposed parts of each individual shot blended together to make a single shot. This was all parts of the photograph are properly exposed.

 

[MassJester]

You got it. You then use the appropriately exposed parts of each individual shot blended together to make a single shot. This was all parts of the photograph are properly exposed.

In concept, this is exactly the approach that appeals to me most. But I'm wondering approximately how long one would need to devote to such a process. Any rough approximations?

 

[boBQuincy]

In concept, this is exactly the approach that appeals to me most. But I'm wondering approximately how long one would need to devote to such a process. Any rough approximations?

If +/- 2 stops will give enough range the camera part of this process will take only a few seconds. Set the camera up for bracketing and take the three shots. (This is with a Canon, other cameras may do things differently)

Now the fun begins. Open the three images in your favorite editing program, drag the three images into the same file, and align the layers (or use the automatic HDR function). Select the best exposure for each part of the image and mask out the parts that don't work.

It could take less than 10 minutes if the three pieces blend together easily. I use this a lot for foreground/sky images instead of a split ND filter (which I don't have).
Of course the process works best for static images. Only the shutter speed should be varied to avoid having different depth of field in the three images.

In the original image the sign could be darkened a bit and the blown out pieces could be replaced with ones that are better exposed.

 

[MassJester]

If +/- 2 stops will give enough range the camera part of this process will take only a few seconds. Set the camera up for bracketing and take the three shots. (This is with a Canon, other cameras may do things differently).

Just as a side question, are you limited to a 3 shot bracket, or can it be set to shoot 5 and 7?

 

[handicap18]

How much you can "bracket" depends on the camera, I think my D50 is 3. However, you can do manual bracketing by changing your own settings as many times as you want. You can do it in any mode: manual, shutter priority and aperture priority. How long that takes depends on how many different exposures you want.

 

[MassJester]

How much you can "bracket" depends on the camera, I think my D50 is 3. However, you can do manual bracketing by changing your own settings as many times as you want. You can do it in any mode: manual, shutter priority and aperture priority. How long that takes depends on how many different exposures you want.

Yes, I understand that I can manage it manually, and if I were going to chose one of 3/5/7, I would simply take that approach. However, in the instant case, I envision wanting to have the camera on a tripod, and taking the pictures in rapid succession before the scene changes or the camera moves. That would facilitate the type of editing under discussion.

 

[handicap18]

With my dSLR I've never actually used the bracketing feature. I just do it manually. Since you get instance results with the LCD screen you can get a good idea so I'll just do 3 or 4 different settings myself and it usually only takes a few seconds. I do understand what your getting at. Everyone gets there a bit different. You are right that if you plan on using layers in post processing then a tripod is a must. You could even do it over a period over half an hour or so. Start right at dusk take a few pics, then wait for the sun to lower, take a few more, then wait till its darker and take a few more. You'd definately get some very different results that could make for a great final result.