Can we talk about how bad FastPass+ is?

[johde]

Under FP+, as well as many other decisions, I have seen an erosion in the value I'm getting for the money I'm spending. Sure, I may not be spending more, but I'm getting less. And I've never understood the argument that since Disney is a for profit business it's OK to give the customer less so management can make bigger bonuses.

Under FP-, the value many guests received was because of the fact that many people didn't use it. Look at these videos from Tokyo Disney. A park where people know how to use FP, use FP, and arrive at RD. Then decide which is the better system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKrs0Ky2BWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ91eX-UNLQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoT0vrAIBW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFPCYyQBq5Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRsJLHBri_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3lZ2rdAYuA

 

[crostorfer]

It is interesting, if not frightening, to think about what rope drop at the MK would be like now if paper FP were still in place. With Anna and Elsa and the mine train both in high demand, and many guests knowing that the only way to get a FP for either of them would be to participate in the rope drop dash, it could be pure chaos. Just picture what it is like now and throw into the mix a high percentage of the guests who stay away from the horde because they already have their FPs in hand.

We all know what it was like at TSMM when lines at the FP machines extended back to One Man's Dream, FP return times quickly moved into the afternoon and ran out completely within 2 hours after park opening on busy days, and the standby line grew quickly to an hour or longer and stayed there all day. There was also the fun of being in the standby line while the FP runner pushed his/her way through to join the rest of the family so that they could get two rides on the park's most popular attraction, leaving many others out in the cold.

I don't know for sure what the capacity is for the mine train, but with the generally larger crowds at MK compared to DHS, I suspect that FPs wouldn't even last an hour on a busy day, and if the return time when you happened to reach the machine didn't fit your schedule, or conflicted with an ADR, you would be out of luck unless you were willing to wait in a massive standby line. It would likely be impossible to get a FP for both on a busy day because the FPs for one would be gone within two hours after you get a FP for the other.

Be careful what you wish for. The mine train with the old paper FP system might be more frustrating and more physically intimidating than the current situation. While a lot of people use the mine train as an example of the problems with FP+, I think it's an example of why something like FP+ is needed for high demand attractions to give as many guests as possible a chance to enjoy the attraction and to make guests as safe as possible.

Just my opinion.

So, you mean it would be like it is now....only it would be same day so that everyone, regardless of where they were staying or when they booked their vacation or bought their tickets, had an equal opportunity chance at them, as opposed to availability being gone by 12:01am EST, 60 days ahead of time.

 

[Planogirl]

I see that the FP+ fans are out in force. Nothing wrong with that of course. I only wish that anyone really knew how people in general feel about the new system.

I do want to take exception with the comment that first time park goers love FP+. What exactly do they have to compare it to? I'd love it too if that's all I knew.

I also disagree that it was hard to get fastpasses for the mountains and most other rides using the old legacy system. We always rode whatever we wanted to.

 

[minnie mum]

It's too bad that Disney can't be like other types of entertainment where what you get for a dollar steadily goes up. Like those lower prices for movies, concerts, sporting events, pay TV, etc., etc. The folks in those businesses are in it purely for the joy of providing entertainment to their customers, not making money.

Oh for heavens sake. No one was saying Disney shouldnt make a profit. But perhaps the out and out greed that has become more overt in recent years does come into question when looking at the value of a WDW vacation.

Are you really comparing the cost/ value of a movie to that of a WDW vacation? Frankly, I'm willing to gamble $15 on a movie. But if I think that I'm unlikely to enjoy a vacation that is costing $5,000+, I may reconsider my choices. Every year I pay more for accommodations that are less well maintained, eat food that has declined in quality, endure longer standby lines that are not justified by higher park crowds, mourn the loss of more and more live entertainment, and now have to contend with FP+. Planning that used to take a couple of hours now stretches indefinitely once the hunt for FPs begins. And then you spend more time ironing out glitches to your plans thanks to the unreliability of MDE. And then once you are ready for the wonderful 4th FP you have the pleasure of trying to hunt down the wonderful wandering kiosks. A vacation should not require this kind of work and frustration. There is very little value in a headache. And there is very little value in riding fewer rides per day than you used to do. But hey, at least the Disney execs are getting their bonuses, so I guess we should all just jump for joy.

 

[leebee]

It bears repeating that while Disney can in theory track us through the park, at present it tracks only when you enter the park, enter a FP line for (and sometimes have your photo taken during) a ride), or make a purchase. No tracking of guests at present.

Maybe as a side benefit in the future, but that certainly isn't the reason for them now. Right now the battery serves only to allow ride photos.

Disney is NOT tracking every single movement you make inside the park. Most of your movements they don't really care about.

And you know this… how?

The whole point of MM was to enable Disney to data-mine. Why would they possibly have the ability to collect all kinds of data- marketable data- and not use it? "Data-for-sale" is a profitable business, and we all know that Disney is all about the bottom dollar. You might think it's paranoid, but why wouldn't vehicle insurance companies want to know how frequently you enter a bar, and then adjust your premiums accordingly- not because you've been stopped by a cop for DUI, but simply because you walked into a bar and therefore might have a drink and drive home? Wear your magic band all around Epcot, and Disney will have this kind of information available (well, theoretically, if their IT department ever gets up to speed!). It sounds far-fetched, but don't kid yourself: Big Brother is already here, even if he looks like a Mouse.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I see that the FP+ fans are out in force. Nothing wrong with that of course. I only wish that anyone really knew how people in general feel about the new system.

I do want to take exception with the comment that first time park goers love FP+. What exactly do they have to compare it to? I'd love it too if that's all I knew.

I also disagree that it was hard to get fastpasses for the mountains and most other rides using the old legacy system. We always rode whatever we wanted to.

The first time guest that we went with this past summer did NOT like all the planning that was required for FP+. And I would dare to say, the first time guest that didn't do any research and showed up at MK to find that couldn't get a FP+ for A&E or the mine train for ANY day of their trip wouldn't walk away with warm fuzzy feelings for FP+ either. And we were behind such a family and heard them talking about how it was crazy that they couldn't get a FP for the mine train for the whole week they were visiting Disney. We also saw several unhappy folk in kiosk lines when they were told that those FP+ were all gone and the park had only been opened 15 or 20 minutes. At least with the old FP system, if you screwed up and didn't research, it didn't shut you out of FPs for the most popular rides for your whole week. The next morning, everyone was once again was on the same footing. And I say all this as a planner. I make all the plans for our family for Disney and have always enjoyed but hated FP+ and planning those for our trip this past June. It added stress unlike any that I have had while planning our other trips.

 

[Planogirl]

The first time guest that we went with this past summer did NOT like all the planning that was required for FP+. And I would dare to say, the first time guest that didn't do any research and showed up at MK to find that couldn't get a FP+ for A&E or the mine train for ANY day of their trip wouldn't walk away with warm fuzzy feelings for FP+ either. And we were behind such a family and heard them talking about how it was crazy that they couldn't get a FP for the mine train for the whole week they were visiting Disney. We also saw several unhappy folk in kiosk lines when they were told that those FP+ were all gone and the park had only been opened 15 or 20 minutes. At least with the old FP system, if you screwed up and didn't research, it didn't shut you out of FPs for the most popular rides for your whole week. The next morning, everyone was once again was on the same footing. And I say all this as a planner. I make all the plans for our family for Disney and have always enjoyed but hated FP+ and planning those for our trip this past June. It added stress unlike any that I have had while planning our other trips.

This is what I usually hear elsewhere. Only on the DIS do I see such furious defense of FP+.

I have a feeling that the system will be tweaked as time goes on and will likely look quite a bit different in the long run.

 

[Tonyz]

I love FP+... we had zero problems. Count me as a fan.

 

[wisblue]

As has been stated many, many times, including on this thread, FP+ inevitably decreases the perceived value of a Disney vacation for some guests and increases that value for others. It is up to everyone to decide for themselves when that value doesn't justify the cost.

Just like everyone has to decide for themselves when the value to them of any discretionary item doesn't justify the cost.

 

[Disneylover99]

It is my understanding (purely from reading info on the internet) that standby lines for less popular rides have increased, while standby lines for higher demand rides have decreased. I concede that this requires a different way of touring (and again, I'd rather go back to old school FP!), but I don't think it's all bad news.

So now instead of wait times of two hours during peak times at Soarin, TSMM, and Peter Pan, wait times are down to an hour and a half ....These are still not lines most people want to be stuck in stand by in.

I think touring strategies really remain the same as legacy FP. If you don't have a FP for more popular rides, either get there at rope drop or go right near closing time.

 

[Praying Colonel]

How dare you. I appreciate that people will have different opinions on fastpass plus and I reespect that, something that you can't seem to do in this post.

You don't know why someone does or does not go to Disney, and nor are you the arbitrator of what someone else thinks is or isn't a 'good' reason not to go. So don't sit there and snidely comment that those of us upset that a place that has given us some of the best experiences in our life has made a change which we dislike aren't genuine just because YOU don't dislike it and don't consider it the 'real' reason that we aren't going back.

If Disney hadn't made that change (incidentally something I agree wholeheartedly with the basic points in the op on) I would be selling a kidney, using black magic to convince my family to go one last time, begging, doing anything I could to get back there but I refuse to abandon my principles just to fill Disney's pockets, I don't want to plan rides, nor be penalised in any way for not doing so and so I will not go. It's not the sole reason but it IS the main one.

You can sit there and argue that you don't agree with my views, or perhaps that Disney isn't set up for that, or that it's just not possible in today's world and I might agree on some points. But don't sit there and suggest that you know I'm lying, that fastpass isn't really that important to me and it's not the main reason I or certain other people are choosing not to go back. Let me have my opinion and debate it respectfully, don't try to discount it.

I hope people will forgive me for not reading most of the pages in this topic as I felt I had to respond to such a post. Apologies if some found it strong or long (hey, that rhymes!), I have some pretty strong feelings on this topic I try to keep under control. I normally don't post here much, but I felt compelled to do so on this thread at least. I'm sure it will get locked at some point regardless, responses like the one above are hardly conducive to reasonable debate and there are plenty more on both sides. Sometimes common sense is as much lacking on these boards as it is in disneys boardroom.

It's a way to marginalize those who don't like FP+.

"Well, if you don't like it, don't go!"

"No problem--we're not going."

"Well, you didn't really want to go, anyway!" (Or my favorite: "Good--more room for me!")

As much as the FP+ acolytes would like to believe otherwise, there are many people who love WDW and dislike FP+. Maybe we don't post our objections as often as we used to, but that doesn't mean we dislike it any less.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's a way to marginalize those who don't like FP+.

"Well, if you don't like it, don't go!"

"No problem--we're not going."

"Well, you didn't really want to go, anyway!" (Or my favorite: "Good--more room for me!")

As much as the FP+ acolytes would like to believe otherwise, there are many people who love WDW and dislike FP+. Maybe we don't post our objections as often as we used to, but that doesn't mean we dislike it any less.

You left off the ever popular "If you don't like it, use standby."

Can't forget that gem.

 

[Praying Colonel]

You left off the ever popular "If you don't like it, use standby."

Can't forget that gem.

Yeah, I'd like to forget it. It's the worst argument I've ever read on this topic.

 

[Kimosabe]

Fans of the legacy FP system knew how to game the system -- I was one of them, and if I am being honest, I secretly loved the fact that first time guests had very little idea how it all worked. The "problem" with FP+, I suspect, is that WDW has put massive marketing into making sure that all new guests now are fully advised multiple times as to how it works, such that there are now a whole lot more people who know what they are doing or at least have a fair shot at it. Is that everyone? Nope. Does everyone want to plan weeks or even days in advance? Nope. But is it a major inconvenience for me to take some time in advance to schedule a few highlights of my vacation, which might then actually allow me to have some true down-time for the resort, pool, etc., rather than being a slave to unknown return times for the legacy system? Nope.

Is it fair for me to have a chance to get a SDMT FP 60 days before my trip because I'm staying on property when another family has to wait another 30 days because they're stay off property (meaning they probably can't get one at all)? Nope...or maybe it is...perhaps that's just a perk of staying on property, along with transportation, EMH, etc....that's all debatable. But thankfully, Disney isn't making me pay out the ying-yang for a FP even if I'm not staying at their resort and I'd still have an excellent shot at all but maybe two or three FP options within just a day or two of a park visit...and if I don't get those, at least I can still show up at rope-drop and have a relatively short standby line (and would have had to show up at rope-drop anyway under the old system if I wanted any chance at a FP for those certain few attractions). Having used the new system, I have come to appreciate it, even if I can recognize that it may have some flaws. I realize that it's not for everybody, and that's OK...the old system wasn't for everybody either.

Nobody is going to love all change. Frozen/Maelstrom...Avatar...Epcot live entertainment...DHS overhaul...New Fantasyland...Mr. Toad...whatever. I'm firmly in the camp of no-Frozen-in-Norway-but-happy-for-it-to-go-elsewhere-because-I-actually-sang-along-at-the-sing-along-even-though-Maelstrom-was-not-exactly-a-must-do-of-a-WDW-trip-for-me, Avatarland should-be-great-because-of-what-it-will-be-and-not-because-it-is-tied-to-a-movie-even-though-I-think-I-would-have-preferred-Beastly-Kingdom-but-am-just-happy-they-are-putting-something-in, don't-care-about-Mo'Rockin'-but-keep-Fife-&-Drum-even-though-I-hardly-ever-make-it-a-point-to-see-them, give-me-all-the-Star-Wars-and-Pixar-you-can-at-DHS, how-on-earth-could-they-have-ripped-the-heart-out-of-the-Main-Street-Bakery-for-Starbucks-even-though-I-enjoy-Starbucks-in-general, and I-can-deal-with-whatever-FP-system-they-have-in-place. I doubt there is a single person out there who has the exact same feelings about these and other changes as I do. Doesn't make me or that person right or wrong...and certainly doesn't mean either of us can state as a fact that "this is bad" or "this is good."

This whole thread has been pretty enlightening...good, bad or otherwise. Almost better than people-watching at the parks!

 

[kay1864]

Originally Posted by MakiraMarlena
Disney is NOT tracking every single movement you make inside the park. Most of your movements they don't really care about.

The whole point of MM was to enable Disney to data-mine. Why would they possibly have the ability to collect all kinds of data- marketable data- and not use it?

You're assuming they do have long-range sensors. No one is saying they're not using the data they have. I'm sure they are running all kinds of metrics on FP frequencies, buying habits by resorts, buying habits by time of day, etc.

But at present, there aren't long-range sensors in the parks, and at present, Disney is not tracking MB guests' movements in the parks. If there were long-range sensors, it would be (and eventually will be) all over the DIS boards.

 

[cassandrap83]

Let me just say that I really like FP+ . It gives our family the ability to select a few attractions that we DEFINITELY want to see, and it ensures that we get the chance to experience them.

We are not rope-drop people, so being able to go online and pick out our fastpasses at a certain time are great. We usually roll into the park around 10. Typically, the fastpasses for rides we would want would be available, but with come-back times around dinnertime. For us, that was a waste. This system is a great fit for us. I think it is convenient, and I don't really care if Disney is collecting data on how I like to spend my vacations.

 

[AmyB2006]

That is great news, thanks for letting us know. I wonder how you found that out?

Interesting that Disney spent, oh, $1.5 billion on a tracking system, spent money on and convinced us to wear bands for it, and doesn't use it.

But again...

People, if you are worried about being tracked, that ship sailed a long time ago.

I really find it humorous the "I'm being tracked" argument against Magic Bands. We are already tracked in so many ways. Whether Disney is or isn't, does it matter? If Disney isn't, somebody else is. If Disney is...

 

[AmyB2006]

You should never make assumptions.

Not making assumptions... just throwing out another possibility.

 

[Robo]

1. -legacy FP system... first time guests had very little idea how it all worked.

2. The "problem" with FP+, I suspect, is that WDW has put massive marketing into

3. making sure that all new guests now are fully advised multiple times as to how it works, such that there are now a whole lot more people who know what they are doing

1. I agree.

2. I agree.

3. I seriously doubt that. Seriously.

You can stand there with a bull-horn shouting at many guests and they will
still not "hear" you.

 

[PEC]

You're assuming they do have long-range sensors. No one is saying they're not using the data they have. I'm sure they are running all kinds of metrics on FP frequencies, buying habits by resorts, buying habits by time of day, etc.

But at present, there aren't long-range sensors in the parks, and at present, Disney is not tracking MB guests' movements in the parks. If there were long-range sensors, it would be (and eventually will be) all over the DIS boards.

Below is from the Disney Site. I don't know if the long range is installed or not but they have clearly stated they intend on tracking your experience with long range readers. Also though not super long, the system for ride photos going on your memory maker is some type of long range.

Your Privacy and RF Technology Used at Walt Disney World Resort

Your MagicBand or card is unique to you and allows us to authenticate you and the benefits associated with you. The MagicBand and card contain only a randomly assigned code that securely links to an encrypted database and are configured to not store any other information about you.

Each MagicBand contains an HF Radio Frequency device and a transmitter which sends and receives RF signals through a small antenna inside the MagicBand and enables it to be detected at short-range touch points throughout Walt Disney World Resort. MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

If you prefer, you may elect to use a card instead of a MagicBand. Cards contain a passive HF Radio Frequency chip and cannot be detected by the long-range readers.