Can we talk about how bad FastPass+ is?

[ghtx]

I suspect the appeal of FP+ will follow some kind of normal distribution curve.
...

I agree. And I also think that the distribution for support of FP+ is shifted to the right compared to FP-; that is, on average people like FP+ more than they liked FP-, though there are always extremes on either end.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Disney is NOT tracking every single movement you make inside the park. Most of your movements they don't really care about.

 

[Dis703]

Add me to the list of those who really find FP+ works great for our family. Love knowing we don't have to make rope drop just to grab a FP for TSM or Soarin. Rides we used to miss out on completely because FP was gone so fast. Love not having to do the extra back and forth or having zero control of what the return time will be when we have kids who have naps to take and need to eat on a fairly regular schedule. Love being able to change the FP if we decide we want to go at a different time or decide we want to ride something different.

And I didn't feel the least bit stressed about having things scheduled. In fact quite the opposite.

I guess what I don't get people complaining about how it forces you to micromanage your vacation. If you don't like it don't use it.

 

[Virtucomp]

I've used both systems for fast passes. Here is my comparison of how the system worked on the last few trips.

Legacy FP
Get to the park at RD and follow the hoard to TSMM to get in line for a fast pass.
Ride standby and hold the fast pass which is timed for about 11:30AM for later.
Ride lesser demand attractions while waiting for time to expire so I can get a second fast pass.
Walk all the way down to Rock and Roller Coaster now that I can get a fast pass. The next return time is shown at 3PM so grab a fast pass.
Now I can ride other rides standby until 11:30AM when I can ride TSMM again.
Wait for next fast pass available time while riding lesser attractions.
Run to ToT to get another fast pass
Repeat until paper fast passes for high demand attractions are no longer available and the machines are covered.

FP+ System
Schedule FP+ for TSMM at 10AM, ToT at 11AM and Voyage of Little Mermaid at 12PM.
Get to park at RD or slightly after.
Ride Rock and Roller Coaster standby with short wait.
Ride ToT with short wait.
Ride TSMM on fast pass.
Ride other lesser attractions while waiting for 11AM ToT
Ride ToT between 11 and 12
Ride Little Mermaid at 12
Get fast pass for next attraction at Kiosk Rock and Roller Coaster at 12:40.
Ride RNRC at 12:40 then hit Kiosk for another FP+ which was RNRC at 1:20.

We don't use the new system to dictate where need to go at every minute. We use it to ensure we have a short wait for some of our favorite attractions. The old system did nothing more for me to get more fast passes because the time you ad to wait between obtaining passes. If the park was busy you we not going to get a lot of fast passes for the E ticket rides. You could not show up late to the park and even consider getting a fast pass for TSMM or RnRC.

On the first day we got to Disneyworld this last trip we knew we would not get into the park until about noon. But because I had FP+ scheduled I knew I could get on some E Ticket rides without waiting. With the old paper system there was now way to do this.

With the old system everyone had to get active cards in the park to get FPs. No one could show up late. I would have to collected everyone's cards and hand them back for the attractions after running for FPs. Now one MB allows me to enable everyone without grabbing cards.

The new system does need improvement. They need all kiosks to be open and they need more of them so you never have to stand in line for a fast pass. For some reason they did not always have all the machines running so a queue line formed quickly at around 11:30AM when everyone wanted more FP+s. I'd like to see them allow getting the 4th pass by phone or maybe use the old FP system where schedule one FP+ and then wait an hour and allow you to get a second E Ticket FP+.

 

[lugnut33]

Like I said, I have a relative who worked the new FP+ system from day one and they said the overwhelming majority of people like it. The ones who dislike it are the Annual Pass people, locals, and others who have visited the parks many times over the years. Those who are on their first vacation or have little experience loved FP+.

And I've been on 3 trips using FP+ and I have had a good time. I refuse to let them get in the way of a good time. That said, I continually have negative thoughts about the new system and with many things that Disney has done lately. I'll openly tell you I really dislike Bob Iger and many of his decisions, but I doubt many stockholders dislike him and that's who by law he has to please.

 

[DougEMG]

We just spent 4 weeks at WDW for which I had booked FP+ at the 60 day mark for every day of our trip. What happened though was that for at least half the days we either got up later than expected or wanted to go to a different park and so ended up either changing our FP+ selections or not using them at all.

Other than some of the most popular attractions (7 dwarfs, parades, etc) we were always able to book something we were interested in doing. Big Thunder is one of our favorite rides and I think there was only 1 day when there were no FP+ at any time left for it. So it was a plus to be able to get FP+ just a day ahead for in the early afternoon (we slept in a lot and I hadn't planned that).

One thing we did do using FP+ was do some character meet and greets and rides I'd never would have waited for in a standby line, so that was a plus.

One thing that FP+ did is really highlight is just how little stuff (rides) there is to do at Epcot and DHS. It was very hard coming up with 3 FP+ to use at those parks. I think that might be one reason we spent a lot more time at MK this trip than we normally do.

The one thing I think that Disney could easily change would be to allow people to book their 4th and higher FP+ on their phone rather than having to go to a kiosk.

I really liked the old FP system and used it a lot to ride the same ride multiple times. While the new system is different, there are some advantages to it, especially if you sleep in and get to the park at noon. So while I miss the old system, I will adapt to make the best use of the new one.

 

[ajfd]

Keeping up with 1 paper FP was about all we ever had to keep up with at any particular time...never hoarded them...BUT,the stand-by lines were not as long as I am hearing that they are now,which changes everything.We rode stand-by most of the time,with reasonable waits.Now people are saying they watch say 25 FP+ holders enter,while maybe 5 or 10 SB folks enter,Can anyone substantiate that...thats just what I've heard.Either way,I'm not a fan.

It seems that much of the FP+ hate is based on this romanticized memory of FP-. The reason that FP- seemed so much better is that fewer guests were using it.

In the FP- days on a given ride, maybe it was 100 FP- guests / 900 SB guests per hour. Now let's say it is 300 FP+ guests / 700 SB guests per hour. The SB lines HAVE to be longer in that case but that has nothing to do with the FP+ technology itself. If Disney would have gotten 300 FP- guests / 700 SB guests, you'd have the same exact line.

That is my biggest gripe about these threads and why I usually stay away from them. Many of the same issues that are being bantered about would happen if FP- had the same adoption rate as FP+ has now. Look no further than pre-FP+ Soarin' and TSMM Fastpass threads and you can see a lot of similar gripes.

 

[ShannonMB]

Just got back from our first FP+ trip, and while I see pluses and minuses, this was easily the most relaxed I've ever been at WDW. We do have the advantage of having been multiple times, so any one ride will not make or break a trip. We are also once-and-done people, never have ridden attractions multiple times.

I felt like I had legacy FP pretty well mastered and was very concerned about how the new system would affect us. Turns out I didn't really like that constant adrenaline rush of beating everyone at rope drop, crossing the parks multiple times in an effort to wait in the fewest lines. I REALLY enjoyed hanging out and waiting for the next time to arrive. Which was a pleasant surprise!

 

[ScottieMouse]

What about the internet or FB? Has anyone noticed that ads on pages are for things they buy or search, like Disney. I guess you could remove/disable cookies. But who really does that.

This reminds of the post from a week ago where the lady was wondering about the "inappropriate" ads that DIS was allowing on the site. Pretty funny when everyone pointed out those ads are based on the users internet history.

Of course I use adblock so I don't know how bad the ads are on the DIS boards in general.

 

[lugnut33]

Greatest trips we ever had to WDW were ones where we collected fastpasses in the mornings while hitting attractions, going back to resort during the afternoon for rest and swimming, and then heading back to the parks in the evening with a hand full of fastpasses to use. Doesn't get any better than that!!

 

[alvernon90]

Greatest trips we ever had to WDW were ones where we collected fastpasses in the mornings while hitting attractions, going back to resort during the afternoon for rest and swimming, and then heading back to the parks in the evening with a hand full of fastpasses to use. Doesn't get any better than that!!

This is the truth right here. Once they started enforcing return times, the FP- system lost its luster. At least the FP+ system can simulate that old system, if you stack all of your FP+ selections in the afternoon or evening and then just do standby on the short lines in the mornings.

The downside is that it used to be possible to get more than three FPs for evening use, and they could be used at any time in the evening. On the plus side, now it is possible to do standby in the mornings at one park while having a "fistful" of FP+ at another park for the evening. There are tradeoffs between these two versions, but it's hard to imagine that people like FP- with enforced return times more than FP+.

If the base complaint is that FP+ is making standby lines longer, then that is a feature, not a bug. From Disney's perspective it makes no sense to have wasted capacity at some attractions and overwhelming queues at others. If all attractions have at least a short wait, then that means all attractions are being used to full capacity and crowds are being spread evenly throughout the park. That's a good thing, and the only thing better (from a visitor perspective) is low crowds. Disney is never going to agree with you that low crowds are best, so FP+ seems to be a decent alternative.

 

[over50visits]

Disney is NOT tracking every single movement you make inside the park. Most of your movements they don't really care about.

That is great news, thanks for letting us know. I wonder how you found that out?

Interesting that Disney spent, oh, $1.5 billion on a tracking system, spent money on and convinced us to wear bands for it, and doesn't use it.

 

[soniam]

This reminds of the post from a week ago where the lady was wondering about the "inappropriate" ads that DIS was allowing on the site. Pretty funny when everyone pointed out those ads are based on the users internet history. Of course I use adblock so I don't know how bad the ads are on the DIS boards in general.

That's priceless I don't use an ad blocker, because they are still gathering info about you with cookies ; you just don't see the results. I've never noticed inappropriate ads , then again, I don't go to inappropriate sites I think I actually found our about a WDW resort discount via an ad, so I retroactively had it applied to my existing reservation. That was nice.

 

[WannaBeInWDW]

But if you didn't take those FastPasses you weren't going to use then someone could have got them from the machine instead of having to be given second hand passes. We went to DisneyLand Paris a few years ago where character meet and greets didn't have formal queues and it was awful. I had a child stomp on my foot and several people push me out the way to get a photo with Woody. I agree there needs to be more characters which aren't listed on the times guide, just spontaneously appearing, but they need decent handlers who monitor the line and sort queues out.

You think I took FPs I was planning on not using? I'm not that greedy but children get tired, feet hurt, people get hungry and if these situations presented themselves we would give our FPs to another family or group. Thát Magic is gone.

Back in the 1980s/90s characters used to walk around the park. This is before people forgot about common decency like the woman who stood directly in front of my 5 year old nephew right as the MSEP started last week. Seeing red I propped my nephew on my shoulders as he asked why the lady blocked his view. These kinds of people are the reasons magic is dwindling in WDW but that's just my opinion!

 

[JMSMommy]

Exactly as you say in the last paragraph, with paper FastPass you probably wouldn't have got Anna & Elsa anyway as they would all have been distributed by the time you arrive at the park. Or there would only be standby and you would have to just wait for the hour+.

True. BUT!!! If we were still under the old system, I would be planning to get fastpasses for A&E on our Magic Kingdom morning in the park (I'd get 4 of those and Dh would get 2 7dmt for the boys). We would virtually be guaranteed to be able to get them for that day. I have yet to even secure ANY for the day we were going to be in the Magic Kingdom other than arrival day. I would not have even planned on the arrival day, but would have checked. If we got them, great...plans for first thing at rope drop would have shifted easily.

Because I know for a fact that I can not get fast passes for Anna and Elsa except for our arrival day, we feel stuck. We can't check to see if we can reserve Anna and Elsa fast passes for that MNSHHP without a ticket. We can't make that ticket purchase unless we know we can get Anna and Elsa (or resign ourselves to waiting in line).

It is what it is. It's a bit irritating that I'm willing to spend extra but am "blocked" because of the schedule that is already set. While I LOVE that I'm able to actually get fast passes for a day we are traveling and will be in later than normal, that benefit doesn't offset the frustration I am feeling right now knowing that unless I'm willing to stand in line for Anna and Elsa, we are pretty much not going to go MNSHHP. As someone who stood in line for Tinkerbelle when it was a 2+ hour line, I know...vividly know...what that will be like.

It's all what I feel like is best for my family. Like I said, I was "meh" about fastpass plus, and right now I'm feeling more frustrated by it because it feels like I'm locked into a set schedule because the fluidity of plans we did last few trips isn't there. Our plans are more rigid because I know we can't just go at rope drop and expect a fast pass to be there for something that is of highest priority for us.

 

[Burnedout]

We didn't know you could hoard fp- so we just collected and used. And loved it. So it isn't just the hoarders that wish the old system was still in place.

 

[wisblue]

True. BUT!!! If we were still under the old system, I would be planning to get fastpasses for A&E on our Magic Kingdom morning in the park (I'd get 4 of those and Dh would get 2 7dmt for the boys). We would virtually be guaranteed to be able to get them for that day. I have yet to even secure ANY for the day we were going to be in the Magic Kingdom other than arrival day. I would not have even planned on the arrival day, but would have checked. If we got them, great...plans for first thing at rope drop would have shifted easily.

Because I know for a fact that I can not get fast passes for Anna and Elsa except for our arrival day, we feel stuck. We can't check to see if we can reserve Anna and Elsa fast passes for that MNSHHP without a ticket. We can't make that ticket purchase unless we know we can get Anna and Elsa (or resign ourselves to waiting in line).

It is what it is. It's a bit irritating that I'm willing to spend extra but am "blocked" because of the schedule that is already set. While I LOVE that I'm able to actually get fast passes for a day we are traveling and will be in later than normal, that benefit doesn't offset the frustration I am feeling right now knowing that unless I'm willing to stand in line for Anna and Elsa, we are pretty much not going to go MNSHHP. As someone who stood in line for Tinkerbelle when it was a 2+ hour line, I know...vividly know...what that will be like.

It's all what I feel like is best for my family. Like I said, I was "meh" about fastpass plus, and right now I'm feeling more frustrated by it because it feels like I'm locked into a set schedule because the fluidity of plans we did last few trips isn't there. Our plans are more rigid because I know we can't just go at rope drop and expect a fast pass to be there for something that is of highest priority for us.

It is interesting, if not frightening, to think about what rope drop at the MK would be like now if paper FP were still in place. With Anna and Elsa and the mine train both in high demand, and many guests knowing that the only way to get a FP for either of them would be to participate in the rope drop dash, it could be pure chaos. Just picture what it is like now and throw into the mix a high percentage of the guests who stay away from the horde because they already have their FPs in hand.

We all know what it was like at TSMM when lines at the FP machines extended back to One Man's Dream, FP return times quickly moved into the afternoon and ran out completely within 2 hours after park opening on busy days, and the standby line grew quickly to an hour or longer and stayed there all day. There was also the fun of being in the standby line while the FP runner pushed his/her way through to join the rest of the family so that they could get two rides on the park's most popular attraction, leaving many others out in the cold.

I don't know for sure what the capacity is for the mine train, but with the generally larger crowds at MK compared to DHS, I suspect that FPs wouldn't even last an hour on a busy day, and if the return time when you happened to reach the machine didn't fit your schedule, or conflicted with an ADR, you would be out of luck unless you were willing to wait in a massive standby line. It would likely be impossible to get a FP for both on a busy day because the FPs for one would be gone within two hours after you get a FP for the other.

Be careful what you wish for. The mine train with the old paper FP system might be more frustrating and more physically intimidating than the current situation. While a lot of people use the mine train as an example of the problems with FP+, I think it's an example of why something like FP+ is needed for high demand attractions to give as many guests as possible a chance to enjoy the attraction and to make guests as safe as possible.

Just my opinion.

 

[Burnedout]

Talk about how bad FP+ is? Isn't that about all we do around here anymore? Realistically whether you love it or hate it you should probably adjust to it because it's not likely going away anytime soon.

Yeah, that's right...conceal don't feel...

 

[maxiesmom]

It is interesting, if not frightening, to think about what rope drop at the MK would be like now if paper FP were still in place. With Anna and Elsa and the mine train both in high demand, and many guests knowing that the only way to get a FP for either of them would be to participate in the rope drop dash, it could be pure chaos. Just picture what it is like now and throw into the mix a high percentage of the guests who stay away from the horde because they already have their FPs in hand.

We all know what it was like at TSMM when lines at the FP machines extended back to One Man's Dream, FP return times quickly moved into the afternoon and ran out completely within 2 hours after park opening on busy days, and the standby line grew quickly to an hour or longer and stayed there all day. There was also the fun of being in the standby line while the FP runner pushed his/her way through to join the rest of the family so that they could get two rides on the park's most popular attraction, leaving many others out in the cold.

I don't know for sure what the capacity is for the mine train, but with the generally larger crowds at MK compared to DHS, I suspect that FPs wouldn't even last an hour on a busy day, and if the return time when you happened to reach the machine didn't fit your schedule, or conflicted with an ADR, you would be out of luck unless you were willing to wait in a massive standby line. It would likely be impossible to get a FP for both on a busy day because the FPs for one would be gone within two hours after you get a FP for the other.

Be careful what you wish for. The mine train with the old paper FP system might be more frustrating and more physically intimidating than the current situation. While a lot of people use the mine train as an example of the problems with FP+, I think it's an example of why something like FP+ is needed for high demand attractions to give as many guests as possible a chance to enjoy the attraction and to make guests as safe as possible.

Just my opinion.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

 

[MakiraMarlena]

That is great news, thanks for letting us know. I wonder how you found that out?

Interesting that Disney spent, oh, $1.5 billion on a tracking system, spent money on and convinced us to wear bands for it, and doesn't use it.

They ARE using it...but not to determine that "Jill, Jack, Joe and Jane are in the Rose & Crown Pub right now, Jack just went into the men's room and he was in there for 3.6 minutes and used 4.8 squares of toilet paper". They don't care. They aren't watching everyone at all times like Vegas casinos do. What they do care is what you decide you wish to ride, giving you access to ride photos, where you shop and what you buy (which they cannot track via bands unless you are charging back to a resort room.)