Can someone explain the rumors of tiered membership?

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think you are trying to make a legal argument while I'm suggesting there are ways then can give VIP members a priority if they want within the POS wording

I also think they could if they wanted to work with it. The only thing I see that they would likely have to do is give at least a month over non-home resort bookings under the current "club". But I'm sure they could find a way to give some a longer window than others.

 

[Wakey]

I think you are trying to make a legal argument while I'm suggesting there are ways then can give VIP members a priority if they want within the POS wording

I am making legal argument because it is a legal argument. It's in the declaration of condominium, how much clearer need it be?
I'm not quite so sure why there's so much obsession with a POS. That's effectively a key facts document setting out in pre contract disclosure the key areas- effectively summarising the declaration, Deed and the exhibits. It' actually differently worded in different States as far as I can see, certainly in different countries, to comply with local timeshare legislation. Its for the buyers protection by giving key facts before they buy.
DVD is often painted as this all powerful entity that can literally tear up and ignore previous contractual obligations and deeded declarations as well as ignore Florida Statute. I don't think it can.

 

[ziravan]

I am making legal argument because it is a legal argument. It's in the declaration of condominium, how much clearer need it be?
I'm not quite so sure why there's so much obsession with a POS. That's effectively a key facts document setting out in pre contract disclosure the key areas- effectively summarising the declaration, Deed and the exhibits. It' actually differently worded in different States as far as I can see, certainly in different countries, to comply with local timeshare legislation. Its for the buyers protection by giving key facts before they buy.
DVD is often painted as this all powerful entity that can literally tear up and ignore previous contractual obligations and deeded declarations as well as ignore Florida Statute. I don't think it can.

When you help half the legislators in FL get elected, the statutes are interpreted like you want them interpreted.

And DVC has language in its contracts that allows its board to make changes. And language stipulating that the board members are all picked by Disney.

Plus. The timeshare industry in FL is more or less self regulated. Ask Wyndham owners who just had their banking rules effectively erased how much power timeshares in FL have to unilaterally change their contracts.

There's good reason to paint DVC as having wide discretion in its decisions.

I don't think they'll change the booking windows. That's a story guides tell around the campfire to keep buyers scared onto the direct path.

 

[Sammie]

I think what you will see is an increase in the number of direct points required to qualify for perks, discounts, and etc. They raised it at Copper Creek from 25 to 50, I think you will see that increase.

 

[disneynutz]

As I posted, Disney legal has built the system to get the outcome that they want. Disney has learned how to control all aspects of their business to increase profitability and success. They control the billboards on the roads to and from the airport, they control and land use regulation and planning, building codes, surface water control, drainage, waste treatment, utilities, roads, bridges, fire protection, emergency medical services, and environmental services. They know what they are doing and they know how to do it.


Bill

 

[Dean]

I am making legal argument because it is a legal argument. It's in the declaration of condominium, how much clearer need it be?
I'm not quite so sure why there's so much obsession with a POS. That's effectively a key facts document setting out in pre contract disclosure the key areas- effectively summarising the declaration, Deed and the exhibits. It' actually differently worded in different States as far as I can see, certainly in different countries, to comply with local timeshare legislation. Its for the buyers protection by giving key facts before they buy.
DVD is often painted as this all powerful entity that can literally tear up and ignore previous contractual obligations and deeded declarations as well as ignore Florida Statute. I don't think it can.

I hear what you're saying but I know there are ways to satisfy the legal wording AND feed a VIP system. The system I mentioned before (Bluegreen) has a similar system to DVC other than there is no home resort priority. They have an 11 month reservation window. What they do is start the wait list up to 4 months early (1 month for each level) and then make the reservations at 11 months out. BG is based in FL and established the VIP system AND modified it in favor of the VIP system under the same Fl laws and a similar POS structure except for the home resort priority component. Remember the wait list system is not contractual. They could open up wait lists to VIP members, they could eliminate them completely for non VIP members, they could allow longer reservations for VIP members, they could add to fees for non VIP and remove them for VIP. I personally don't expect to see a VIP system but I'm certain they could create one that would make those non included want to be included and for many, to add points retail they wouldn't otherwise.

 

[anitatina]

I think what you will see is an increase in the number of direct points required to qualify for perks, discounts, and etc. They raised it at Copper Creek from 25 to 50, I think you will see that increase.

I'm new to DVC and am currently researching to either buy direct or resale. Can anyone clarify this? Let's say I already own 25 points direct at Poly, but buy resale CCV (I know, not on the market for resale yet). Will I need to buy 50 points direct from CCV to get member perks even though I already have direct points at another home resort?

 

[Bellecruiser]

I attended a cocktail party this afternoon on the MC, and a Club, made up of members with 1000 points or more has been considered, and looks like a sure thing to happen.

Bobbi,
What else is being discussed on the MC? Was there any discussion about what/how/when it might be implemented? Also, what was the reaction of the people when they heard about the possibility?

 

[Dean]

I'm new to DVC and am currently researching to either buy direct or resale. Can anyone clarify this? Let's say I already own 25 points direct at Poly, but buy resale CCV (I know, not on the market for resale yet). Will I need to buy 50 points direct from CCV to get member perks even though I already have direct points at another home resort?

Currently any 25 point purchase qualifies but CCV is a 50 pt minimum regardless.

 

[Wakey]

I hear what you're saying but I know there are ways to satisfy the legal wording AND feed a VIP system. The system I mentioned before (Bluegreen) has a similar system to DVC other than there is no home resort priority. They have an 11 month reservation window. What they do is start the wait list up to 4 months early (1 month for each level) and then make the reservations at 11 months out. BG is based in FL and established the VIP system AND modified it in favor of the VIP system under the same Fl laws and a similar POS structure except for the home resort priority component. Remember the wait list system is not contractual. They could open up wait lists to VIP members, they could eliminate them completely for non VIP members, they could allow longer reservations for VIP members, they could add to fees for non VIP and remove them for VIP. I personally don't expect to see a VIP system but I'm certain they could create one that would make those non included want to be included and for many, to add points retail they wouldn't otherwise.

I also hear what you are saying Dean, but I looked at the declarations to try and get an answer and it says the bookings must be on a first come, first serve basis. If you open up a waitlist to only some members allowing them first call on a home resort priority booking, it will be actionable, I believe as it will not longer meet that basic requirement- how can it? I am not a US lawyer though.
Whether they would be able to implement a wait list and give priority at non home resort (when let us face it most waitlists are used) though- I haven't looked for an answer for that, possibly though.
I do think they will have a VIP club with more perks for those members.
I think all they can do is add perks, they cannot take anything away from what is on the deed.There are things they could take away though that could have an impact for sure, that are not contractual.
Don't get too hung up over the POS. That is pre contractual documentation to advise the consumer prior to purchase. It can only work against DVD - if it was misleading it would be actionable against DVD. It does not take priority the other way over what is in the deeds and declarations. The POS also varies in what it contains in different jurisdictions.
I have not looked at BG and the contractual documentation or the history to see what allowed them to do what they did.
Let us wait 5 years, and then see if they have managed to change booking windows for non direct purchasers compared to direct purchasers. If I was wrong I will happily come back on here and eat humble pie.
I do think DVD will raise the minimum buy in to 50 all around. I think CCV was a tester- too many people are getting to know the 'buy 25 points' for benefits 'loophole'. It is even regularly given as advice to the 35,000 DVC members on the official DVC Neighbourhood Facebook page.
Interestingly, according to DVC Resale Market blog, DVD are being more aggressive still it seems on ROFR- now running at nearly 10%, even though prices are increasing. Wonder if this is a change in strategy to push resale higher, or because its a knock on of demand for 25 point contracts at older resorts such as SSR?

 

[bobbiwoz]

Bobbi,
What else is being discussed on the MC? Was there any discussion about what/how/when it might be implemented? Also, what was the reaction of the people when they heard about the possibility?

Members attending clapped when they heard they, we, will be recognized, of course. Many volunteered to be contacted as part of a focus group. However, NOTHING was decided. Ken suggested a name, "Triple oh club" a member suggested "Comma club" neither was decided upon. Ken suggested that the Member keep his day job as no one applauded when they heard his offering.

Karl Holtz really gave nothing away as far as DCL's three new ships, except it is very possible there will be a ship permanently based on the west coast. Asian itineraries to their parks may happen. On a previous cruise we were on, Commodore Tom suggested cruises to all Disney parks, but warned that he did not want to see that on the internet, so I never mentioned that until now. I think at least the Asian parks are possible.

 

[Wakey]

Members attending clapped when they heard they, we, will be recognized, of course. Many volunteered to be contacted as part of a focus group. However, NOTHING was decided. Ken suggested a name, "Triple oh club" a member suggested "Comma club" neither was decided upon. Ken suggested that the Member keep his day job as no one applauded when they heard his offering.

Karl Holtz really gave nothing away as far as DCL's three new ships, except it is very possible there will be a ship permanently based on the west coast. Asian itineraries to their parks may happen. On a previous cruise we were on, Commodore Tom suggested cruises to all Disney parks, but warned that he did not want to see that on the internet, so I never mentioned that until now. I think at least the Asian parks are possible.

Interesting- if someone buys 'triple 0' direct points- they certainly deserve extra perks given the $150k+ outlay! Everyone clapping though- sounds a bit cultish.

 

[bwvBound]

I'm new to DVC and am currently researching to either buy direct or resale. Can anyone clarify this? Let's say I already own 25 points direct at Poly, but buy resale CCV (I know, not on the market for resale yet). Will I need to buy 50 points direct from CCV to get member perks even though I already have direct points at another home resort?

Under the current guidelines, the 25-direct at Poly are sufficient for your 'membership with perks' status. No need to reestablish 'membership with perks' at each home resort provided your CCV is of the same UY and titled to match the Poly account and, thus, become an add-on contract of the existing account.

A subtlety of Dean's reply is that you likely won't find a resale CCV with fewer than 50 points as that is the present minimum purchase. So your future resale CCV purchase will be 50+ points.

 

[anitatina]

Thanks so much for the clarifications Dean and bwvBound!

 

[bobbiwoz]

Interesting- if someone buys 'triple 0' direct points- they certainly deserve extra perks given the $150k+ outlay! Everyone clapping though- sounds a bit cultish.

Everyone there was invited because we have 1000 points, yes, we were glad to be recognized.

Also, this year's Member's Cruise was as far as Tom and I are concerned, the absolute best MC EVER! I've been on probably 6 so far now. We were all psyched because the Broadway Stars had yet to put on their show, besides, we were enjoying delicious food tidbits, and drinks!

I could not afford to buy 1000 CC points at today's prices, but in 2003, I was not sure we could afford 1000 at $85 which is what BWV was going for when we bought.

 

[Bellecruiser]

Members attending clapped when they heard they, we, will be recognized, of course. Many volunteered to be contacted as part of a focus group. However, NOTHING was decided. Ken suggested a name, "Triple oh club" a member suggested "Comma club" neither was decided upon. Ken suggested that the Member keep his day job as no one applauded when they heard his offering.

Karl Holtz really gave nothing away as far as DCL's three new ships, except it is very possible there will be a ship permanently based on the west coast. Asian itineraries to their parks may happen. On a previous cruise we were on, Commodore Tom suggested cruises to all Disney parks, but warned that he did not want to see that on the internet, so I never mentioned that until now. I think at least the Asian parks are possible.

Thanks, Bobbi.

This is an interesting thread. I agree with the folks who say Disney is a business and they are in DVC to make money. (duh. Of course they are, and I don't hold that against them as it is part of their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders) I purchased their product knowing full well what I was getting...lodging. I know Dean and others can say this better than I can, but I think DVC is also trying to create long term value in their product thus we are getting the "extras." If Disney can get this aspect right, then in this area my interests will align with theirs. I think the "extras" may help resale value stay high (WAY higher than other timeshares) as well as encourage people to buy direct. It will enrich my participation, and make for a more positive experience.

What remains to be seen is how a tiered system would align with the value proposition as well as the business proposition. The business proposition is...if you get to X level then you get Y, so maybe it encourages a few people to buy more points. Will that offset the cost of providing y? It would have to or it makes no business sense. But how does it create more value for members in their product?

 

[Bogielvnv]

Under the current guidelines, the 25-direct at Poly are sufficient for your 'membership with perks' status. No need to reestablish 'membership with perks' at each home resort provided your CCV is of the same UY and titled to match the Poly account and, thus, become an add-on contract of the existing account.

A subtlety of Dean's reply is that you likely won't find a resale CCV with fewer than 50 points as that is the present minimum purchase. So your future resale CCV purchase will be 50+ points.

 

[Bogielvnv]

What if I already have resale points and then purchase Direct points, would I then get full member benefits? And would I then be able to book my new "home resort" at 11 months out even if I have to use my resale points to fill out the complete booking?

 

[bwvBound]

What if I already have resale points and then purchase Direct points, would I then get full member benefits? And would I then be able to book my new "home resort" at 11 months out even if I have to use my resale points to fill out the complete booking?

At the present time, a 25-point purchase direct from Disney will qualify you for "Member" perks: access to buying discounted Annual Passes through DVC; invitation to member events; access to booking a Member Cruise if cash bookings is permitted; etc. This thread explores the 'rumor' that new tiers may be introduced that provide member benefits, to accounts of qualified (direct) points at increasingly higher levels. As 'perks' are not part of the deed, it remains to be seen how this plays out.

Obviously, 25-points direct won't go far for exchanges in the Concierge Collection, Disney Collection, etc. (Just sayin')

If your Direct and Resale points are both from the same resort, UY and titling so that they are under the same account, you may combine points from both contracts to book your home resort at 11 months. Keep in mind that "home resort" booking advantage follows the points not the account or account holder. (Each point has one and only one home resort. The point may be used for home resort booking at 11 months to that home resort.)

 

[Bogielvnv]

At the present time, a 25-point purchase direct from Disney will qualify you for "Member" perks: access to buying discounted Annual Passes through DVC; invitation to member events; access to booking a Member Cruise if cash bookings is permitted; etc. This thread explores the 'rumor' that new tiers may be introduced that provide member benefits, to accounts of qualified (direct) points at increasingly higher levels. As 'perks' are not part of the deed, it remains to be seen how this plays out.

Obviously, 25-points direct won't go far for exchanges in the Concierge Collection, Disney Collection, etc. (Just sayin')

If your Direct and Resale points are both from the same resort, UY and titling so that they are under the same account, you may combine points from both contracts to book your home resort at 11 months. Keep in mind that "home resort" booking advantage follows the points not the account or account holder. (Each point has one and only one home resort. The point may be used for home resort booking at 11 months to that home resort.)

But what if I have, say, 50 direct points for the Poly and 160 resale points @ Animal Kingdom, can I still book the Poly 11 months out using my AK points to fill out what I need?