Can someone explain the rumors of tiered membership?

[Wakey]

I can certainly see them encouraging buying more direct points by giving extras to members of a club who have bought a certain number of points. This cannot include an enhanced booking ability over other members though- all they can do is give more extras.

 

[Wakey]

So you think that they would love to be able to give direct buyers an earlier period to book at other resorts vs the resale buyers? But they can't?

I don't think they have ever been quoted as saying this- this is what is speculated they would like to do by people on boards. They cannot do it, if you read the master deeds and the obligations to treat all members the same (and resale buyers are members, despite what you may read). There has been a suggestion they could try and persuade people to transfer into other clubs etc- it would totally mess up the product if they tried anything like that and would be a nightmare to even attempt - they will not do it. The efficacy of the product which makes them so much money would fall through the floor.
What they may do is continue to give enhanced extras (marketing spend given by DVD not DVC, totally outside anybody's contract) and probably introduce special clubs or people who but x number of points direct which give extra exclusive benefits. The average resale purchaser won't fall for the hype, but many will.

 

[ziravan]

I don't think they have ever been quoted as saying this- this is what is speculated they would like to do by people on boards. They cannot do it, if you read the master deeds and the obligations to treat all members the same (and resale buyers are members, despite what you may read). There has been a suggestion they could try and persuade people to transfer into other clubs etc- it would totally mess up the product if they tried anything like that and would be a nightmare to even attempt - they will not do it. The efficacy of the product which makes them so much money would fall through the floor.
What they may do is continue to give enhanced extras (marketing spend given by DVD not DVC, totally outside anybody's contract) and probably introduce special clubs or people who but x number of points direct which give extra exclusive benefits. The average resale purchaser won't fall for the hype, but many will.

They have to give at least a month home booking advantage to owners. If they gave an 11/7 month window to direct buyers and 10/6 to resale buyers, it would fall within the terms of the contract.

They have to treat all members fairly not necessarily equally. They could make the argument - and have already started to make the argument - that it's fair to reward members paying full price, and what would be unfair is to not do so.

They could probably do it and a month's difference prob would strain but not break the system.

Would they do it? Very doubtful.

But it's instructive that this rumor persistently comes from guides trying to sell direct points. Maybe nobody is quoted as saying it, but they are saying it.

More often than not, this rumor starts out with some variant of, "Well my guide told me this was coming soon..."

 

[bobbiwoz]

Ken Potrock hosted the event on the Member Cruise, the idea of something different for "deep root" members is not speculation.

 

[keaster]

I attended a cocktail party this afternoon on the MC, and a Club, made up of members with 1000 points or more has been considered, and looks like a sure thing to happen.

Just wondering if it would be a club for direct members only? Or if you had bought 500 direct and 500 resale could you still be in the 1000 point club?

 

[ziravan]

Just wondering if it would be a club for direct members only? Or if you had bought 500 direct and 500 resale could you still be in the 1000 point club?

No way resale counts, at least going forward.

They might grandfather current owners, but the point of such a club would be to encourage the purchase of direct (developer) points.

DVC used to be the leader in the timeshare market. They pioneered the points system vs. dedicated weeks. Now, most timeshares have moved to follow DVC's lead.

DVC used to treat all its members the same, and can afford to do so.

These days, DVC has become a follower. The differentiation between direct and resale will continue. Hence the speculation about a VIP status. It's what other timeshares do and DVC has become a follower instead of a leader.

And other timeshares only count qualified (direct) points toward VIP status.

 

[Matty B13]

If they went to a tiered system, would they be guaranteed? And who pays for those perks?

 

[Dean]

I can certainly see them encouraging buying more direct points by giving extras to members of a club who have bought a certain number of points. This cannot include an enhanced booking ability over other members though- all they can do is give more extras.

Probably not directly but they could give waitlist priority. One system I own wait lists VIP owners up to 4 months ahead of the reservation window opening.

 

[Wakey]

If they went to a tiered system, would they be guaranteed? And who pays for those perks?

DVD would pay for any perks just as they do now- its marketing budget effectively.

 

[disneynutz]

Many of the perks are not paid for by DVD. Discounts on food, merchandise, and admission media and events where members pay. Currently resale points can not be used for a member cruise, I can't imagine that DVD pays anything towards member cruises for the prices, points and cash that they charge, but the restriction is still there.

Bill

 

[Wakey]

From the Declaration of Condominium (this example Boardwalk)- emphasis added:
"Reservation Requests for Vacation Homes by Club Members at the Condominium will be taken on a first come first served basis ".
This is the overriding principle of home resort priority booking, (which DVMC can reduce to a minimum of 1 month) and this alone would rule out them giving preferential treatment to one group over another. There is no provision anywhere for them to amend that basic principle.
As to resale buyers not being members:
"Membership in the Disney Vacation Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest, which is conveyed by virtue of the execution and delivery of a deed, in accordance and subject to the terms of this Declaration.... Upon recording of the deed the Club Member is automatically entitled to enjoy the service and benefits of membership in the club.
Provided that an Owner complied with all restrictions on the transfer of an Ownership Interest, if any, the transferee of such Ownership Interest shall automatically become a member of the Club"

 

[Wakey]

Many of the perks are not paid for by DVD. Discounts on food, merchandise, and admission media and events where members pay. Currently resale points can not be used for a member cruise, I can't imagine that DVD pays anything towards member cruises for the prices, points and cash that they charge, but the restriction is still there.

Bill

Well I think DVD effectively book the ship for the members cruises. It must be extremely lucrative so whether they do book it and keep the profits, or just leave it to Disney Cruise Line I am not sure, but watching Ken's speech onboard the other day he was thanking Disney Cruise Line for allowing them to do it and indicating that DVD staff had been heavily involved in sorting it all out. You are correct I think in that I don't think DVD will pay for discounts (not sure about that though and probably no way of checking whether there is any consideration going the other way), but nothing is actually paid- their 'partners' (i.e Disney's other companies) simply agree to give a discount. Epcot members lounge- DVD will probably pay a peppercorn rent for the unused space and I think paid for it being renovated and run. Moonlight Magic- I imagine money changes hands (albeit all in the same group of companies for that).

 

[SL6827]

I don't think they have ever been quoted as saying this- this is what is speculated they would like to do by people on boards. They cannot do it, if you read the master deeds and the obligations to treat all members the same (and resale buyers are members, despite what you may read). There has been a suggestion they could try and persuade people to transfer into other clubs etc- it would totally mess up the product if they tried anything like that and would be a nightmare to even attempt - they will not do it. The efficacy of the product which makes them so much money would fall through the floor.
What they may do is continue to give enhanced extras (marketing spend given by DVD not DVC, totally outside anybody's contract) and probably introduce special clubs or people who but x number of points direct which give extra exclusive benefits. The average resale purchaser won't fall for the hype, but many will.

That has always been my assumption, that they wish they could fiddle with the direct and resale buyers options, (timewise) as to when to be able to book outside their home resort. But I have been told time and time again, that it would be biting their own nose to spite their face, so to speak. But I do bet that has been in the back of their mind here lately.

 

[disneynutz]

From the Declaration of Condominium (this example Boardwalk)- emphasis added:
"Reservation Requests for Vacation Homes by Club Members at the Condominium will be taken on a first come first served basis ".
This is the overriding principle of home resort priority booking, (which DVMC can reduce to a minimum of 1 month) and this alone would rule out them giving preferential treatment to one group over another. There is no provision anywhere for them to amend that basic principle.
As to resale buyers not being members:
"Membership in the Disney Vacation Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest, which is conveyed by virtue of the execution and delivery of a deed, in accordance and subject to the terms of this Declaration.... Upon recording of the deed the Club Member is automatically entitled to enjoy the service and benefits of membership in the club.
Provided that an Owner complied with all restrictions on the transfer of an Ownership Interest, if any, the transferee of such Ownership Interest shall automatically become a member of the Club"

My experience tells me that Disney legal knows how to modify pretty much anything they want. If it makes them more money and/or more significant in the eyes of Disney, they will make changes.

Bill

 

[disneynutz]

Well I think DVD effectively book the ship for the members cruises. It must be extremely lucrative so whether they do book it and keep the profits, or just leave it to Disney Cruise Line I am not sure, but watching Ken's speech onboard the other day he was thanking Disney Cruise Line for allowing them to do it and indicating that DVD staff had been heavily involved in sorting it all out. You are correct I think in that I don't think DVD will pay for discounts (not sure about that though and probably no way of checking whether there is any consideration going the other way), but nothing is actually paid- their 'partners' (i.e Disney's other companies) simply agree to give a discount. Epcot members lounge- DVD will probably pay a peppercorn rent for the unused space and I think paid for it being renovated and run. Moonlight Magic- I imagine money changes hands (albeit all in the same group of companies for that).

The SVP who runs DVC/DVD also runs ABD and Golden Oak. His boss also runs Disney cruise line so not much negotiating required there.

Bill

 

[Wakey]

My experience tells me that Disney legal knows how to modify pretty much anything they want. If it makes them more money and/or more significant in the eyes of Disney, they will make changes.

Bill

Maybe bill, but legally I fail to see how a declaration of condominium could be altered unilaterally for the benefit of DVD against the interests of many of it's members. Then again I am not a US lawyer.

 

[disneynutz]

That has always been my assumption, that they wish they could fiddle with the direct and resale buyers options, (timewise) as to when to be able to book outside their home resort. But I have been told time and time again, that it would be biting their own nose to spite their face, so to speak. But I do bet that has been in the back of their mind here lately.

We thought the same thing about them separating direct and resale buyers but they did it.

Bill

 

[Wakey]

We thought the same thing about them separating direct and resale buyers but they did it.

Bill

They didn't that is the point. All they did is stop resale getting non contractual freebies. There has been no separation of what is in the deed.

 

[CarolMN]

Under the current contracts, Disney cannot treat owners differently for booking purposes based on how they purchased. That means they cannot have different booking windows for direct and resale owners and they can't charge a booking/change/cancellation fee to just resale owners - unless those possibilities had been spelled out in the various Position Offering Statements. They weren't.

 

[Dean]

From the Declaration of Condominium (this example Boardwalk)- emphasis added:
"Reservation Requests for Vacation Homes by Club Members at the Condominium will be taken on a first come first served basis ".
This is the overriding principle of home resort priority booking, (which DVMC can reduce to a minimum of 1 month) and this alone would rule out them giving preferential treatment to one group over another. There is no provision anywhere for them to amend that basic principle.
As to resale buyers not being members:
"Membership in the Disney Vacation Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest, which is conveyed by virtue of the execution and delivery of a deed, in accordance and subject to the terms of this Declaration.... Upon recording of the deed the Club Member is automatically entitled to enjoy the service and benefits of membership in the club.
Provided that an Owner complied with all restrictions on the transfer of an Ownership Interest, if any, the transferee of such Ownership Interest shall automatically become a member of the Club"

I think you are trying to make a legal argument while I'm suggesting there are ways then can give VIP members a priority if they want within the POS wording