Can I vent about my snowflake and school?

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I have the most amazing wonderful son, who is a little shy, and pretty middle of the road academically. He's funny, and friendly, and kind, and exceptional in all sorts of ways, reading and public speaking not included.

For the past 5 years (1st through 5th) he has gone to a charter school that places a big emphasis on performance. Kids don't take tests, they demonstrate what they know at "showcases", and by presenting portfolios, and through other performance based tasks.

However, it seems like every time I go to the school my kid isn't one of the kids "performing".

For example, every week they have an assembly that is lead by a "committee" of about 10 kids -- different kids each time. Now there are 10 kids each week, 40 weeks in a year, so I figure that in a school of 250 kids, that means everyone should get a turn right? In 5 years my child has never been picked.

They also have a time each week when kids do "service" to help the school. Every week kids make posters to advertise things around the school (school dance is coming, or reminding the kids there's no gum chewing or whatever), or they write articles for the school newspaper, or they serve on committees to do different things, or they clean. My kid has cleaned every week for 5 years -- well once or twice he's sharpened pencils or watered plants, but that's it.

They have a "showcase" twice a year when you come in and your kids are supposed to show you what they learned by acting as tour guides or as "experts" at different stations. In first and second grade 1/2 the kids read their stories or papers outloud to the group each time -- how many papers did my child read outloud? none. One year 1/2 the kids stood on the stage and sang a son, while the other kids sang from the back of the room, I'll let you guess where my kid stood.

This year was the final straw. My son's best friend presented an "expert station" on a science experiment they did. He also was one of the presenters in the class jeopardy game where they quizzed the parents about what they'd learned at the showcase. He also gave a monologue. Several of his pieces of work had been chosen to hang on the wall. My son? Was the "greeter" he stood at the door and said "welcome to our room". He also joined the rest of the class standing on the stage and reciting a poem in Spanish (BF did that too). That was it.

To me this isn't like not being picked for the school play (of course he wasn't, but I'm not complaining about that), it's how the kids show what what they know, and how they are assessed on their learning. It's like saying "I'm sorry, but you don't need to/get to write this paper or take this test". I feel like my son misses out on learning (because while the other kids are practicing explaining their science projects he's practicing saying "welcome to our class")

Every year I go to parent teacher conference where I get his report card (which reports that his behavior is excellent and his academics are uniformly "on grade level"). I say "I couldn't help noticing that DS didn't have a part at showcase, was there some skill he was missing, something I can help him with so he can have a part next time?" and they say "Oh, no, he's great, we just ran out of parts and he volunteered, or didn't mind not having one so we didn't make him" or "Why we didn't notice that, of course he'll have a part next year with the new teacher" or "Everyone takes turns not having a part". Except that you shouldn't be able to "volunteer" not to do the work, and he doesn't get a part the next year, and everyone does not take a turn the same 3 or 4 kids take a turn each time.

I think it's a variety of things. One is that he is shy, and he's quiet and compliant so when they ask for volunteers he holds back, on the other hand there are lots of strong personalities who whine and throw fits if they don't get a starring role, and so they give the roles to them. Also, I think the teachers feel judged by how well the kids perform so they give roles to the superstars over and over, which means that the shy kids don't develop skills and the difference gets bigger and bigger.

We're leaving the school after this year, and moving to a better school district where he can go to a regular public school (the schools in my city are awful), so this is venting not a WWYD, but I wonder if people think I'm overreacting -- would you expect every child to get a turn?

 

[themilesfamily]

If he's a bit shy and not into public speaking, he's probably happy not to have to do things that put him front and center. (I was a very, very shy kid so I can relate. I would have hated "performing" "presenting" or anything of the sort. It just wasn't me.)

Perhaps you can get him involved in some type of club or extracurricular activity outside of school that would allow him to be more center-of-attention and put him in a position to shine. He can build confidence and skills that way. Does he have a hobby or is there a club he might be interested in joining?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I would expect the parts to be rotated. I also would not have accepted their reasoning why your child never got picked for 5 years. I would have made sure after the first time that I spoke to the child's teacher (which would have put him in 2nd grade) and said that my child needs more encouragement to come out of his shell. XYZ happened last year and it would really benefit him to have a better part this year. While I understand that the parts are rotated I know my child is very easy going and will not have the nerve to ask for what he wants but we are working on it. I am hoping that we can both encourage him to be more assertive and I think this will help etc.

So yes- I would be annoyed.

 

[JerseyJanice]

The whole thing sounds kind of kooky to me, and I'd be glad to get my kid out of there and into a more traditional grading system.

Call me old-fashioned, but there is a lot to be said for receiving a regular formal education.

(And don't get me started on the usage of the terms "snowflake" or "helicopter parents." )

 

[Imzadi]

There are outgoing Alpha snowflakes and more reserved Beta snowflakes. Sounds like your DS might prefer to be more of a "Wind Beneath My Wings," type of snowflake -- at least in this particular school. When he's in a different environment where public performance isn't stressed so much, his quieter, more reserved talents might be better cultivated by teachers who understand him, and he will start to shine.

But, yes, the teachers should have been more mindful to rotate kids more as this is a learning environment for all the kids, not just the loudest, most visible. They should have helped stretch him a little. But, it sounds like an elementary school for kids who are going to end up at the High School for Performing Arts.

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

Sounds to me like your son and that school are not a good mix. You yourself say he is not a good public speaker so I would think a school that doesn't rely on "performing" as their main teaching tool would work better for him.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

As far as this being the wrong school for him -- yes, I agree it is. However, I live in a city with awful schools, and if you get a chance to escape them by enrolling in a charter school you take it. The popular schools in my city, including this one, accept about 1 in 20 kids by lottery, so it's not like you can say "well I'll take the math/science charter instead", you go where you get in. Private schools in my city are about $30,000, which I just can't afford. I'm lucky that my income has gone up enough over the past few years that I can now afford to move to a more affluent suburb with better schools, but that wasn't always an option.

As far as letting them know, I did, over and over again. Each time they'd tell me either that it was going to be different next time, or that it was my imagination. I met with each teacher at the start of the school year, and brought it up again at conferences. I talked to the principal. One year when he literally had nothing on the wall I requested a child study team to explore whether there was an issue making him unable to complete any writing, the team found that he was fine (which I agree with). Fourth grade was a little better, because the teacher looped and I guess all my complaining in 3rd got through to her. It wasn't "even" but it was closer. He even had something he wrote out on a table!

He does do some activities outside of school, and does quite well there, so I really feel like when he's out of the environment he'll be fine. So, like I said, this is more of a vent than a WWYD.

 

[Schmeck]

What did your son say when you asked him about not presenting? You did ask him about it, I hope?

I was a shy kid for most of my school years, and would never have volunteered to do anything in public. I would have been the first to volunteer to give up my part in just about anything.

It really sounds to me like you are feeling jealous because your child isn't being showcased - but maybe he doesn't want to be, and is very happy greeting people at the door, and standing in the back of the group, etc.

I know my younger daughter loves it when she is placed in the back of the stage at dance competitions! I used to get jealous that other girls were front and center every year, but she really is enjoying herself more in the back, and isn't so nervous about messing up, and does a better job back there than she would in front. So I got over being jealous, because I just want her to be happy, and now I can enjoy watching the performances.

I still have to watch myself - I'm a very competitive person now, and I can get so wound up about things that the kids don't even care about!

 

[themilesfamily]

He does do some activities outside of school, and does quite well there, so I really feel like when he's out of the environment he'll be fine. So, like I said, this is more of a vent than a WWYD.

OP I think you're right about this. It sounds like a change of environment might be just the ticket.

Sorry, when I read your post I read just the "WWYD" -- I didn't see you said it was just a vent, (so I did offer suggestions.) Oops.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Yes, he's perfectly happy to not have to do it, just like a lot of kids would be really happy not to have to solve any math problems in math class, or not write the essay in English. Preparing for the peformance, writing your script for it, etc . . . is actually how they learn. At first I assumed that when he didn't have poems on the wall (in 2nd grade they did a big exhibit of poetry, he didn't have a single one) he had written them but somehow they didn't make it to the wall, but when I asked if I could see them, it turned out that they didn't make him write any at all.

So, this isn't like standing in the back row in the dance recital. (In the point where I mentioned him standing in the back, he was standing behind the audience, not behind the other kids). The kid in the back of the dance recital is dancing, they're still getting the benefits of dance. They're learning the steps and getting exercise, and becoming more coordinated. This is more like if your child's science class did a science fair (because that's a lot what a showcase is like) and every other child did a science experiment, and made a poster, and wrote a speech, and a paper, and your kid passed out programs. It doesn't really matter if he enjoyed it, passing out programs doesn't teach anything about science.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

OP I think you're right about this. It sounds like a change of environment might be just the ticket.

Sorry, when I read your post I read just the "WWYD" -- I didn't see you said it was just a vent, (so I did offer suggestions.) Oops.

I don't mind the suggestions, just wanted to point out that we've already taken the biggest step which is moving.

 

[Cornhusk]

Wait, your kid is shy yet is in a school that relies on performing?

Does he even want to be there?

 

[sunnyday123]

The whole thing sounds kind of kooky to me, and I'd be glad to get my kid out of there and into a more traditional grading system.

Call me old-fashioned, but there is a lot to be said for receiving a regular formal education.

(And don't get me started on the usage of the terms "snowflake" or "helicopter parents." )

Have you asked HIM about it?? I know I would have wet my self and passed out at that age if I had to stand on a stage and say anything to more than 2 people! He might just not be into that kind of thing.

Personally, I agree with the OP who said this whole thing is a little kooky. They don't take tests, ever?? God help those kids when they get to college!

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Wait, your kid is shy yet is in a school that relies on performing?

Does he even want to be there?

I already addressed the fact that this is the public school he got in to. I live in an area where schools are assigned by lottery. I could have chosen to send him to our local public, but the level of violence there is high, and very few kids end up knowing how to read. There are lots of other wonderful public schools in my area, but they're all by lottery, and choose about 1 in 20 kids. This is the one that chose him.

But he's not painfully shy, just a little. He likes to perform but his voice is low when he does so, and sometimes he mumbles a little. He also doesn't ask as strongly as other kids who beg for all the starrig roles. This time, he was perfectly happy to invite people in, make suggestions of where they should go, etc . . . His shyness comes in to play when it comes to advocating for himself, so when the teacher asks He tried out for the school play on his own accord last year (didn't get in, of course, but was willing to audition). When he didn't get chosen for the play he asked to be on stage crew, and was the one who stood on stage in front of everyone and told people where the exits were, no flash photography, the name of the play etc . . . So, he CAN do this.

Even if he were painfully shy (I was much more shy than he was as a child, and I would still have been hurt if my school didn't let me stand on the stage with the rest of the class to sing a song), they could still hang his artwork or make sure he wrote things and put them on the wall.

As to it being a crazy model -- I know other schools that use the same model and do it really well. I think the individual school is crazy though.

 

[golfgal]

I would move if those were my two choices for schools. The touchy/feely model you describe does NOT work anywhere except in the parents minds. How can you get a report card that your child is "at grade level" when they have nothing to measure that by? The concept of having kids get up in front of the class or parents and give demonstrations is a nice PART of education but as you are finding, all it shows is that there are some kids that don't mind talking in front of large groups. Our DD would be a STAR at a school like that but our boys would be total failures yet in the real world, our boys are more natural students then our DD, i.e. they don't have to study to do well in school where DD has to work for her grades.

Since you don't have a choice in the matter I would address this with the his teachers. How can they possibly promote him if he hasn't taken the "tests"? If the focus of the school is on performance and they are allowing a child not to perform, something is very wrong--even if said child doesn't WANT to perform, that would be the equivalent of a student not taking a math test because he doesn't like them.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I'm all for participation but the one thing missing here is how your DS feels about the way things went. Not all kids like the spotlight and some are much happier being worker bees in the background which is what Stage Crew is I think. I understand you would have liked your DS to be part of the mix and would have liked them to give him a push towards trying but maybe your DS was more stressed about this than you realize. Maybe his teachers saw this and let him be who he is. Not everyone is comfortable with throwing themselves out there to be criticized... I know I always hated it. Did your DS ever complain to you about his position or was he content? You may be upset over nothing, maybe this school did actually do a good job and helped him embrace exactly who he really is.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

Yes, he's perfectly happy to not have to do it, just like a lot of kids would be really happy not to have to solve any math problems in math class, or not write the essay in English. Preparing for the peformance, writing your script for it, etc . . . is actually how they learn. At first I assumed that when he didn't have poems on the wall (in 2nd grade they did a big exhibit of poetry, he didn't have a single one) he had written them but somehow they didn't make it to the wall, but when I asked if I could see them, it turned out that they didn't make him write any at all.

So, this isn't like standing in the back row in the dance recital. (In the point where I mentioned him standing in the back, he was standing behind the audience, not behind the other kids). The kid in the back of the dance recital is dancing, they're still getting the benefits of dance. They're learning the steps and getting exercise, and becoming more coordinated. This is more like if your child's science class did a science fair (because that's a lot what a showcase is like) and every other child did a science experiment, and made a poster, and wrote a speech, and a paper, and your kid passed out programs. It doesn't really matter if he enjoyed it, passing out programs doesn't teach anything about science.

Wait, your kid is shy yet is in a school that relies on performing?

Does he even want to be there?

Yeah, I don't see why this is so weird. I think if I had been involved in something like this at a younger age that maybe I wouldn't be as shy as an adult.

Sounds like the teachers dropped the ball here. Every child should have been selected to do these things at some point. It shouldn't have been a volunteer-type thing.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I would move if those were my two choices for schools. The touchy/feely model you describe does NOT work anywhere except in the parents minds. How can you get a report card that your child is "at grade level" when they have nothing to measure that by? The concept of having kids get up in front of the class or parents and give demonstrations is a nice PART of education but as you are finding, all it shows is that there are some kids that don't mind talking in front of large groups. Our DD would be a STAR at a school like that but our boys would be total failures yet in the real world, our boys are more natural students then our DD, i.e. they don't have to study to do well in school where DD has to work for her grades.

Since you don't have a choice in the matter I would address this with the his teachers. How can they possibly promote him if he hasn't taken the "tests"? If the focus of the school is on performance and they are allowing a child not to perform, something is very wrong--even if said child doesn't WANT to perform, that would be the equivalent of a student not taking a math test because he doesn't like them.

We are moving (not sure how you missed it), I wanted to move him last year but felt like moving into the last year of elementary school would be hard. Plus 5th grade was supposed to have a great teacher this year, but she got reassigned in August. The current one is very nice, but exactly like all the rest in her expectations for him.

I agree with you, it's exactly like not taking the tests (or even doing the work). They don't see it that way, they see it that everyone presented what they learned, and that my child learned how to welcome people (I kid you not), so he should get a grade of "meets expectations", which is what he gets on every standard on every report card except for the parts about behavior -- there he "exceeds expectations". They also tell me he participates in the classroom and they can judge his performance based on that. They do do some testing in reading and math, but they won't tell you when it's coming up (one teacher told me "we don't want the kids to study, that might stress them out") or show it to you afterwards, but they tell me he's right on grade level with that. I'm a teacher, so I've had him do enough stuff at home that I am confident that that is correct.

 

[Cornhusk]

I already addressed the fact that this is the public school he got in to. I live in an area where schools are assigned by lottery. I could have chosen to send him to our local public, but the level of violence there is high, and very few kids end up knowing how to read. There are lots of other wonderful public schools in my area, but they're all by lottery, and choose about 1 in 20 kids. This is the one that chose him.

But he's not painfully shy, just a little. He likes to perform but his voice is low when he does so, and sometimes he mumbles a little. He also doesn't ask as strongly as other kids who beg for all the starrig roles. This time, he was perfectly happy to invite people in, make suggestions of where they should go, etc . . . His shyness comes in to play when it comes to advocating for himself, so when the teacher asks He tried out for the school play on his own accord last year (didn't get in, of course, but was willing to audition). When he didn't get chosen for the play he asked to be on stage crew, and was the one who stood on stage in front of everyone and told people where the exits were, no flash photography, the name of the play etc . . . So, he CAN do this.

Even if he were painfully shy (I was much more shy than he was as a child, and I would still have been hurt if my school didn't let me stand on the stage with the rest of the class to sing a song), they could still hang his artwork or make sure he wrote things and put them on the wall.

As to it being a crazy model -- I know other schools that use the same model and do it really well. I think the individual school is crazy though.

You didn't answer my question. Does he want to even be there?

If he was like this for five years, why didn't you jump up to the occasion sooner instead of just relying on just what the teachers and principal stated?

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

I don't think most kids want to be at school.