California Grill - dress code

[eeyoreandtink]

So using your logic, I assume you never ever go over the speed limit right? I mean it very clearly states 55 MPH....

Of course you do...I'm sure you have plenty of reasons why you speed as well. We all do...

This is no different...

I don't know why you're so hell bent on enforcing a ridiculous dress code at a restaurant in the walls of a Disney Theme park for God's sake....

If we were talking some super fine dining Michelin Star establishment, again like The French Laundry, then yes absolutely I would 100% agree with you. I just don't understand why it bothers you that some people come to a restaurant within a theme park with theme park attire on...Perhaps I never will and that's ok

However, I truly believe at this point we've just reached an impasse and have beat this poor old horse to death...View attachment 473437

Again, I hope your future dinners are as spectacular as you can possibly dream.

No, actually I don't speed. Or I do my dead level best not to, no one is perfect. Speed limits exist for a reason, to keep drivers safe. Its foolish to purposely exceed them and can be costly in the form of tickets.

You are CHOOSING not to understand. The dress code is clear. There is no problem with the wording. Anyone should be able to clearly understand what is required. I am saying either enforce it or don't have one so that no one expects that you will actually enforce it. That's it. No one is disappointed when their expectations aren't met. Pretty simple really. I don't know what is not to understand there? Everything else has been counter to your arguments that the semantics of the dress code render it invalid.

And, as I have pointed out before and you choose not to acknowledge it is NOT withing the walls of a theme park. I don't need a park ticket to go there. Many people dine there without ever visiting any of the theme parks. It has different dress rules than signature restaurants that ARE within the parks. THOSE make allowances for park attire.

What bothers me is that Disney isn't bothering to enforce their own rules, and as a result I am not getting what I expect from the restaurant experience I paid for. If there wasn't a dress code, there wouldn't be an expectation that people would dress and conduct themselves in a manner consistent with it.

Bottom line, Disney either needs to enforce the dress code at signature restaurants or do a away with them and stop marketing them as signature experiences.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

This.
It’s Disney. Not the Vatican. Dress like one wishes. And we all know Disney doesn’t care... it’s vacation. I will continue to dress in park attire and continue to not worry about it.
And like the above states. We ALL. Speed. We all disregard a rule here and there.
Funny thing is. There is no rule against park attire.

If you wear a collared shirt and dress shorts as park attire then there isn't. Otherwise, at signature restaurants, there indeed is. Disney says you MUST wear those things, but chooses not to enforce it. The rule still exists.

We don't all speed. I don't. DH and DD don't. At least not intentionally.

 

[hertamaniac]

From the CG online dress code, guests are asked, not mandated to comply. If it were a requirement, it would state something akin to must adhere, etc. The 2nd paragraph uses the must verbiage, but the preceding paragraph does not.

As far as collared shirts are concerned, just do a simple search for zero collar. That is what I wore at WDW Signature/Fine dining not in the parks. To the general naked eye or those diners who are inspecting me, it looks like a t-shirt. But it is in full agreement with the paragraph below. In fact, I would take the position that by including a specific style of t-shirt being not permitted, the remaining t-shirts are permitted.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

From the CG online dress code, guests are asked, not mandated to comply. If it were a requirement, it would state something akin to must adhere, etc. The 2nd paragraph uses the must verbiage, but the preceding paragraph does not.

As far as collared shirts are concerned, just do a simple search for zero collar. That is what I wore at WDW Signature/Fine dining not in the parks. To the general naked eye or those diners who are inspecting me, it looks like a t-shirt. But it is in full agreement with the paragraph below. In fact, I would take the position that by including a specific style of t-shirt being not permitted, the remaining t-shirts are permitted.

View attachment 473465

How is MUST not a requirement? Not MAY, MUST. Also they uses the word MINIMUM, also an imperative.

 

[Moms]

EEyore ... maybe you need to take your issue up with Disney. If you feel that their inconsistent enforcement of their stated dress code is ruining your "signature" experience, than you should notify THEM. They may be able to address your complaint or explain their policies to your satisfaction. No one here can help you with that ... all that will be accomplished her is a lot of "back and forth" that isn't going to change anyone's mind. A bit like our government, and we know what a mess that is!!!

 

[eeyoreandtink]

How is MUST not a requirement? Not MAY, MUST. Also they uses the word MINIMUM, also an imperative. Using the words asked is meant be polite, not a licence to disregard the entirety of everything after it.

 

[nickg420]

I would submit that Disney not enforcing it pretty much much means it doesn't exist.

If I had to guess it probably looked nice on paper as an idea to keep it "upscale" and they probably tried to enforce it in the beginning and Disney probably quickly learned either A) It would lose them business, as again people are going to be dining straight from the parks or B) Was not worth the hassle as most people really do not care. So why cause an issue that most people don't complain about.

Either way I agree with the above poster. If this bothers you so badly please bring it up to Disney or the other alternative is to accept the fact they are not going to enforce it and just don't go to signature restaurants, that would be awful for you, but truthfully there's thousands waiting to take your reservation and that's probably why Disney will not enforce it or do anything about it.

 

[hertamaniac]

How is MUST not a requirement? Not MAY, MUST. Also they uses the word MINIMUM, also an imperative.

They use the phrase "Guests are ASKED". If someone asks me to do something, I am not obligated, or MUST, do it. The fact that the ASKED word is the predecessor to the rest of the statement, I interpret it as a preferred, but a non-requirement. I know some restaurants that state the diner can be refused entry if they do not comply with the requirement. These restaurants didn't use the word ASK.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

EEyore ... maybe you need to take your issue up with Disney. If you feel that their inconsistent enforcement of their stated dress code is ruining your "signature" experience, than you should notify THEM. They may be able to address your complaint or explain their policies to your satisfaction. No one here can help you with that ... all that will be accomplished her is a lot of "back and forth" that isn't going to change anyone's mind. A bit like our government, and we know what a mess that is!!!

I have. The concierge at the restaurants typically say their hands are tied by higher ups. Every time they try to enforce it is shot down. We have been traveling to Disney for over a decade and this used to be a non issue. If you weren't dressed properly, you didn't get in, either on the ships or in land based signatures. It has slowly eroded over time. There was a time when Cali turned you around at the door in a tee shirt or flip flops. As people have become more and more entitled, they have stopped because people make a scene about it.

It is not necessarily "ruining" the experience, but certainly negatively effecting it.

 

[nickg420]

How is MUST not a requirement? Not MAY, MUST. Also they uses the word MINIMUM, also an imperative.

I believe this poster was referring to the paragraph above this where is says "Guests are ASKED to adhere to a minimum dress code."- Implying we'd like for you to adhere to the below but we're not going to make a scene if you don't. Which is pretty much how Disney handles it...

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I would submit that Disney not enforcing it pretty much much means it doesn't exist.

So if there isn't a cop enforcing the speed limit on the road today, it doesn't exist?

 

[eeyoreandtink]

They use the phrase "Guests are ASKED". If someone asks me to do something, I am not obligated, or MUST, do it. The fact that the ASKED word is the predecessor to the rest of the statement, I interpret it as a preferred, but a non-requirement. I know some restaurants that state the diner can be refused entry if they do not comply with the requirement. These restaurants didn't use the word ASK.

But they use asked AND must in the same document. I don't think which one comes first makes much difference. I would agree that the wording needs to be changed to be more clear or it needs to go away entirely.

 

[TeresaWen]

This same argument comes up every time the question is asked. The root of the problem is Disney’s completely unclear dress code. And it is very ambiguous and completely open to interpretation. There are a handful of things that are clearly spelled out as not permitted. And there is a suggestion that guests adhere to a minimum standard that is kind of spelled out with a “must” or two thrown in. Confusing. And each person will take from the “dress code” what they will.

And Disney is known for not enforcing most everything, adding to the confusion. Hopefully a guy showing up in gym shorts and / or a tank top will be asked to change before dining. But I’ve been there when folks were wearing gym shorts. Hard not to notice. Even when focusing on my husband. And some things just cannot be unseen

 

[hertamaniac]

But they use asked AND must in the same document. I don't think which one comes first makes much difference. I would agree that the wording needs to be changed to be more clear or it needs to go away entirely.

But ASKED is the predecessor to MUST. In contracts that I've worked on, the predecessor statement/word supersedes subsequent ones. And in those contracts, we had a full lexicon and a statement that explicitly stated how predecessors/superseding wording would be prioritized.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

But ASKED is the predecessor to MUST. In contracts that I've worked on, the predecessor statement/word supersedes subsequent ones. And in those contracts, we had a full lexicon and a statement that explicitly stated how predecessors/superseding wording would be prioritized.

This isn't a contract though, and those reading it aren't expected to be versed in contract law.

 

[hertamaniac]

This isn't a contract though, and those reading it aren't expected to be versed in contract law.

But the authors of the dress code statement should have had it reviewed for continuity if that's what they wanted to achieve.

 

[slyster]

I feel like this is a cruise ship forum question about dress attire in the dining room. It used to bother me that folks did not follow the asked minimum dress requirement. I dressed up so why shouldn't they. I realized the cruise employees didn't enforce it and that they didn't care so why should I? I continued to wear what I thought was appropriate while others dressed way down. They just want to be themselves and they don't worry about what others wear so why should others care about what they wear.

Disney chooses not to enforce their recommended minimum dress code. That tells me it is more important that their guest has a good dining experience instead of worrying about what they are wearing. That's just my opinion though.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

And Disney is known for not enforcing most everything, adding to the confusion. Hopefully a guy showing up in gym shorts and / or a tank top will be asked to change before dining. But I’ve been there when folks were wearing gym shorts. Hard not to notice. Even when focusing on my husband. And some things just cannot be unseen

Reminds me of the time on DCL we have guys in basketball shorts and tank tops right next to us the entire week. Harry pits are not conducive to an appetizing dinner.

 

[Moms]

I have. The concierge at the restaurants typically say their hands are tied by higher ups. Every time they try to enforce it is shot down. We have been traveling to Disney for over a decade and this used to be a non issue. If you weren't dressed properly, you didn't get in, either on the ships or in land based signatures. It has slowly eroded over time. There was a time when Cali turned you around at the door in a tee shirt or flip flops. As people have become more and more entitled, they have stopped because people make a scene about it.

It is not necessarily "ruining" the experience, but certainly negatively effecting it.

With all due respect addressing it with the concierge at the restaurant isn't going to do it then you need to go address it with the "higher ups". With all of the time and energy you have spent here trying to persuade all of US with your passion and pique, you might at least have addressed the issue with the ones might who really care.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

But the authors of the dress code statement should have had it reviewed for continuity if that's what they wanted to achieve.

They also should have their audience in mind