California Grill - dessert only and fireworks viewing

[TeresaWen]

Soooo you doooo advocate for getting an ADR! Got Ya!!!!

Unfortunately there is absolutely no guarantee that you will be allowed up without an ADR. If the lounge is full you are out of luck. We prefer the lounge so we make an ADR, go a little early (no more than 30 min) and hope to fine a spot. If we do, they are always delighted to let us stay there when our table is ready.

 

[GaryDis]

There are likely more people who want to get in but can't, either because they couldn't nail an ADR or because the lounge is full, than people who can get in. So that argument doesn't win any sympathy. There will always be people who can't get in; the question is what is a fair usage (not necessarily expenditure) to justify admission.

But it does focus the issue on why some of us have an innate feeling that certain approaches are unfair, either to Disney, servers, or other guests. And fairness is innate; there are experiments showing some primates (either chimpanzees or monkeys, I forget which) have a sense of fairness. That explains why we can feel strongly about it without being able to verbalize our justification or base it on solid logic. It also explains why we may disagree.

The amount spent is part of the picture, certainly in terms of fairness to Disney and the servers. Even so, be careful. It's not clearly a fair argument to compare an average amount on drinks and dessert against a rock bottom amount on entrees with no beverage or other costs; shouldn't it be an average amount on just drinks or dessert versus an average amount on entrees and the other things people who order entrees also get?

Even if that's debatable, I get the sense that some people would say that the person ordering entrees should trump the person who only orders drinks, regardless of how much is spent on alcohol. That's not a criticism of alcohol consumption; it's a belief that the restaurant has a primary role of serving entrees, and everything else is secondary, without regard to the economics. I believe that the underlying sense is that using the restaurant for anything other than its primary role is exploiting the rules, particularly when it's for the express purpose of getting a no-charge benefit (the view) at a lower cost. But other people won't accept any notion that the restaurant has any primary role other than profit.

It's complicated, it's subtle, and we'll probably never all agree. But I hope people can at least accept that their decisions have an impact on other guests, without having to agree on whether that makes such decisions right or wrong.

 

[Nancyg56]

There are likely more people who want to get in but can't, either because they couldn't nail an ADR or because the lounge is full, than people who can get in. So that argument doesn't win any sympathy. There will always be people who can't get in; the question is what is a fair usage (not necessarily expenditure) to justify admission.

But it does focus the issue on why some of us have an innate feeling that certain approaches are unfair, either to Disney, servers, or other guests. And fairness is innate; there are experiments showing some primates (either chimpanzees or monkeys, I forget which) have a sense of fairness. That explains why we can feel strongly about it without being able to verbalize our justification or base it on solid logic. It also explains why we may disagree.

The amount spent is part of the picture, certainly in terms of fairness to Disney and the servers. Even so, be careful. It's not clearly a fair argument to compare an average amount on drinks and dessert against a rock bottom amount on entrees with no beverage or other costs; shouldn't it be an average amount on just drinks or dessert versus an average amount on entrees and the other things people who order entrees also get?

Even if that's debatable, I get the sense that some people would say that the person ordering entrees should trump the person who only orders drinks, regardless of how much is spent on alcohol. That's not a criticism of alcohol consumption; it's a belief that the restaurant has a primary role of serving entrees, and everything else is secondary, without regard to the economics. I believe that the underlying sense is that using the restaurant for anything other than its primary role is exploiting the rules, particularly when it's for the express purpose of getting a no-charge benefit (the view) at a lower cost. But other people won't accept any notion that the restaurant has any primary role other than profit.

It's complicated, it's subtle, and we'll probably never all agree. But I hope people can at least accept that their decisions have an impact on other guests, without having to agree on whether that makes such decisions right or wrong.

This post probably is an explanation why Disney has not set a minimum amount for Disney restaurants. It is not an easy decision....how much? On what? For how long? At what times?

It is hard to blame guests who take advantage of a "loophole", especially Since none of us know if the ability to enter and dine in any manner you want is even a loophole or if Disney made the decision to allow it.

 

[TeresaWen]

Don't understand what "fairness" or "rules" or "loopholes" have to do with dining. ADRs are available to anyone. Not everyone will get the date, time, or restaurant they want. Is that fair? I am the type of person who cancels vacations if a friend needs me. I give up my seat if someone else seems to need it more, I put coins in expired parking meters. And generally try to help and look out for my fellow man. And it would never occur to me to not make a reservation for any restaurant just because someone else may eat there in a more traditional way and therefore deserves it more than I do.

And frankly I do not know what I want to eat 6 months from now. I do know I enjoy the atmosphere, especially when the lights are dimmed and the music starts. I plan well and have never not been able to secure an ADR that puts me in the California Grill for wishes. Sometimes we have several courses, sometimes one or two. Sometimes just one and several very expensive drinks. Sometime lounge, sometimes a table. Fair?

 

[Nancyg56]

Don't understand what "fairness" or "rules" or "loopholes" have to do with dining. ADRs are available to anyone. Not everyone will get the date, time, or restaurant they want. Is that fair? I am the type of person who cancels vacations if a friend needs me. I give up my seat if someone else seems to need it more, I put coins in expired parking meters. And generally try to help and look out for my fellow man. And it would never occur to me to not make a reservation for any restaurant just because someone else may eat there in a more traditional way and therefore deserves it more than I do.

And frankly I do not know what I want to eat 6 months from now. I do know I enjoy the atmosphere, especially when the lights are dimmed and the music starts. I plan well and have never not been able to secure an ADR that puts me in the California Grill for wishes. Sometimes we have several courses, sometimes one or two. Sometimes just one and several very expensive drinks. Sometime lounge, sometimes a table. Fair?

I can only speak for how I feel about this specific issue. I think that there is a group of guests making ADR's for restaurants such as CG and Narcoossees, both of which offer pretty spiffy views of Wishes, complete with the music piped in, with the intention of keeping the bill as low as possible, camping out for as long as it takes.

Are you part if this group? I have no idea. I do think that because it has become a practice for this subset of people to do this, tables are getting limited for guests whose intention is to dine. I do not think it is unreasonable for Disney to impose boundaries when folks make ADR's and take up tables. Having said that, I am not sure that disneys decision to refuse to implement plate fees, minimum spending per person or group, or civet fees was deliberate or if it was because there was not much of an issue prior to social media and message boards announcing ways to get the best of both Worlds. Either way, the verbiage if loopholes is mine, and was used due to my lack of ability to find a better word.

I am not trying to personalize my response to anyone who does this. As far as I am concerned, if Disney is okay than I'm okay, it's not my call and it is not my decision.

If CG was my restaurant and u was seeing an increased number of people camping out without what I considered reasonable spending to support the cost of that table I would change my policy. I would not impose a per person minimum, but an average per person per table.

CG is pretty expensive real estate in Disney territory. Just as many restaurants I expensive districts have covers or minimums or make efforts to stop campers who want a place to kill time, I believe that Disney is within reason to expects a return on their investment in terms of tables and time.

 

[GaryDis]

ADRs are available to anyone.

I don't know what the pattern is for CG specifically, but for some venues, this isn't a the only perspective. They're often only available to people who not only can make their plans 180 days in advance, but can be awake at particular hours (which might be 3am in their time zone). That's not everyone.

Being available to everyone might mean everyone putting their names into a lottery, and then being chosen randomly, say 31 days out, just in time for when everyone can choose FPs. Yes, that's far-fetched and would never happen. I'm just pointing out that the idea that ADRs are "available to anyone" and by implication totally fair to everyone isn't as simple as you might think.

 

[Moback]

A while back, probably 2 years or so, there were a couple companies that would guarantee dinner reservations at WDW for a fee. What they were doing was going out using fictitious user accounts and making scads of reservations at all of the popular eateries and shows that took reservations. They then would sell their reservations to the paying public. The result was the disenfranchisement of legitimate WDW patrons because "real" guests could not compete to get reservations. Disney put their legal team on the top two companies and that activity ceased to exist.

There will always be people who want something for nothing or little. There will always be people who cheat whether at games such as checkers, warcraft, etc... The thing that I realized a long time ago is that the folks that care are the ones who were raised to believe in a right and a wrong. The people who don't care generally are the ones who weren't raised with that set of beliefs. To me, cheating the system whether by a company for profit or an individual simply shows lack of morals and a sense of fair play. This is only my opinion of the world as it stands and not a disparagement to anyone on this board.

 

[Lisa F]

This post probably is an explanation why Disney has not set a minimum amount for Disney restaurants. It is not an easy decision....how much? On what? For how long? At what times?

It is hard to blame guests who take advantage of a "loophole", especially Since none of us know if the ability to enter and dine in any manner you want is even a loophole or if Disney made the decision to allow it.

The way the system is set up right now, the early bird (or obsessive bird) catches the worm. If you are first to the ADR you get it and you don't have a minimum for it. With the way Disney is going with packages lately, truly the only way they could maximize profits and make sure people who are in the restaurant are there for an actual meal is to package it. I know a lot of people hate when people does that and has all of these premium experiences but when you have limited resources like seats during fireworks time, it makes sense. not that I am really advocating for that either. The thing is that all of disney's best kept secrets are no longer secrets with the internet and everyone is trying to do them.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Don't understand what "fairness" or "rules" or "loopholes" have to do with dining. ADRs are available to anyone. Not everyone will get the date, time, or restaurant they want. Is that fair? I am the type of person who cancels vacations if a friend needs me. I give up my seat if someone else seems to need it more, I put coins in expired parking meters. And generally try to help and look out for my fellow man. And it would never occur to me to not make a reservation for any restaurant just because someone else may eat there in a more traditional way and therefore deserves it more than I do.

And frankly I do not know what I want to eat 6 months from now. I do know I enjoy the atmosphere, especially when the lights are dimmed and the music starts. I plan well and have never not been able to secure an ADR that puts me in the California Grill for wishes. Sometimes we have several courses, sometimes one or two. Sometimes just one and several very expensive drinks. Sometime lounge, sometimes a table. Fair?

But that's my whole argument Teresa--YOU are going to CG to actually eat and drink.

Many have no real intention of doing either. Since they no longer let the mob up w/o room or an actual reservation, these folks now try to see how little they can eat or drink and still see the fireworks.

No fireworks view and CG wouldn't even be in their equation.

 

[Mflowers92]

I would hate it if they made it a prix fixe because my family likes to load up on way more food than that!

They'd be losing out on money from this family if they did that. We don't want an appetizer, entree and dessert. We want all the appetizers, sushi, maybe a salad for our good health, an entree, a dessert each and maybe an extra dessert to split.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

So far, they don't care what you order, even if you have an ADR. WDW currently has no rules concerning "fair usage" of an ADR. If they are considering a minimum plate charge, or making this location a fixed price restaurant where everyone pays the same no matter what they actually eat, this is why, so maybe keep an eye out for things changing before you get there.

There is a lot of discussion on the boards about who might be more "deserving" to have an use an ADR at a popular venue (a long time ago there was a movement stating that only families with children under age 12 were "deserving" of reservations to Cinderella's Royal Table and everyone else could suck it), but Disney's really only interested in profit, so if the restaurant is underperforming because too many guests are taking reservations to CG and ordering very little, they might actually be moved to do something about that at some point.

 

[Nancyg56]

So far, they don't care what you order, even if you have an ADR. WDW currently has no rules concerning "fair usage" of an ADR. If they are considering a minimum plate charge, or making this location a fixed price restaurant where everyone pays the same no matter what they actually eat, this is why, so maybe keep an eye out for things changing before you get there.

There is a lot of discussion on the boards about who might be more "deserving" to have an use an ADR at a popular venue (a long time ago there was a movement stating that only families with children under age 12 were "deserving" of reservations to Cinderella's Royal Table and everyone else could suck it), but Disney's really only interested in profit, so if the restaurant is underperforming because too many guests are taking reservations to CG and ordering very little, they might actually be moved to do something about that at some point.

I am not fond of the "who is more deserving" conversations either.

 

[Moback]

I and my family happily pay for the services that we desire. Any person who tries to cheat that are simply not of the same cloth as my folk.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

although it is not "cheating" if the restaurant has no minimum order rule.

 

[HatboxHaint]

I and my family happily pay for the services that we desire. Any person who tries to cheat that are simply not of the same cloth as my folk.

what services are you speaking of? Paying for food or paying for views of free fireworks?

 

[Stinky_Pete]

...Having said that, I am not sure that disneys decision to refuse to implement plate fees, minimum spending per person or group, or civet fees was deliberate or if it was because there was not much of an issue prior to social media and message boards announcing ways to get the best of both Worlds..,

The thing is that all of disney's best kept secrets are no longer secrets with the internet and everyone is trying to do them.

It is the sad truth that the internet has kind of ruined some of what made WDW so special. And not only how you can no longer get in to have dinner at the California Grill because of so many who are going mainly for fireworks. I had to stop getting my usual haircut on Main Street because of the long lines of people who were having the barbers put glitter in their daughter's hair. Not because they want a haircut. Because they don't want to pay for BBB and read on the DIS that the barber shop would do the glitter thing for much less money.

But it doesn't really help that that the Disney website advertises the whole fireworks viewing thing.

 

[Nancyg56]

It is the sad truth that the internet has kind of ruined some of what made WDW so special. And not only how you can no longer get in to have dinner at the California Grill because of so many who are going mainly for fireworks. I had to stop getting my usual haircut on Main Street because of the long lines of people who were having the barbers put glitter in their daughter's hair. Not because they want a haircut. Because they don't want to pay for BBB and read on the DIS that the barber shop would do the glitter thing for much less money.

But it doesn't really help that that the Disney website advertises the whole fireworks viewing thing.

I have to say that one of my favorite memories was my DGD getting her hair done at the Barbershop. This was before BBB and the option to have a little girls hair done is no longer offered, but it sure was fun! The issue some parents have with BBB is outside of the cost. That hairdo hurts!!!! We never would have taken Kady there, but I have been sharing the good folks at the Ivy Trellis in the Grand have a lovely Princess Package, and because they are licensed they have a lot more leeway than the Godmothers in Training at BBB do.

 

[serenitynow]

I have to say that one of my favorite memories was my DGD getting her hair done at the Barbershop. This was before BBB and the option to have a little girls hair done is no longer offered, but it sure was fun! The issue some parents have with BBB is outside of the cost. That hairdo hurts!!!! We never would have taken Kady there, but I have been sharing the good folks at the Ivy Trellis in the Grand have a lovely Princess Package, and because they are licensed they have a lot more leeway than the Godmothers in Training at BBB do.

Also that BBB hairdo bun is really hard on their hair. My niece had a lot of hair loss and hair breakage for about 6 months after her BBB session.

 

[Nancyg56]

Also that BBB hairdo bun is really hard on their hair. My niece had a lot of hair loss and hair breakage for about 6 months after her BBB session.

That is not okay! I have to say that my girls loved their time at the Ivy Trellis. I have shared that the little one fell asleep! She was adorable as the stylist combed her hair and relaxed her tired self. After the session the girls strolled around the Grand, and CM's came out of the shops to chat with them, all taking time to tell them how Royal they looked, etc. It was worth every penny.

 

[serenitynow]

That is not okay! I have to say that my girls loved their time at the Ivy Trellis. I have shared that the little one fell asleep! She was adorable as the stylist combed her hair and relaxed her tired self. After the session the girls strolled around the Grand, and CM's came out of the shops to chat with them, all taking time to tell them how Royal they looked, etc. It was worth every penny.

Well to be fair, she is a fair blond with corn silk type hair so maybe her hair wasn't ideal for a BBB. She did love the attention on the day, too. I'm glad your girls had such a good experience!