BWV - Exploring Purchasing, could use feedback

mattpeto

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 2, 2019
On Feb 5-12, my family of 4 (two kids) stayed at Boardwalk Inn. My parents also stayed from Feb 5-9.

I was absolutely floored with the resort. I'm from NJ (closer to Philly) so the shore and boardwalk has some nostalgia that really hits home for me. But the location, oh the location is unbelievable. Walking (or boat) distance to Epcot and HS, and so much to do right on campus. The restaurants and the Bakery (man that might be the best bakery of all-time) just added to the experience. And across the water, is other resorts filled with awesome eateries.

When I started crunching numbers for the next vacation, I realized it's just not economical. $500/night - I just can't swing that unless it's every 3 or 4 years. It's too big of a number to save up for.

So I started down this rabbit hole of exploring purchasing BWV DVC. Listening to podcasts, reading endless threads. Putting up $15k-$20K (which would probably be financed) is something that sounds daunting, but I see the light at the horizon: basically making Boardwalk (and returning to Disney World) much more affordable going forward.

I had a few questions for you veterans and I was hoping you could answer:

1-Family of 4 (two kids). Is 106 points enough? Should I be concerned I'll be able to get a Studio room (7 nights) even with the 11 month window. I'll avoid the major peak times and probably would try to go to October-early December.

2-Would you be able to distribute two years of points within 11 months? ( know you bank, borrow from the next year, but still confused on timing. I proposed the idea to the wife, that we would go in December 2021 and return in November 2022, taking advantage of the DVC Annual Pass deal. We would then take a year off from Disney and bank (or sell the points). Is the annual pass something that is pretty understood as a good strategy?

3-The charts that came out show an increase from 2020 to 2021 for certain times. Do I need to be concerned that the Studio room in 2020 which price me out in 5 years?

4-Will a Studio be big enough for my family of 4? (two daughters 8 and 5)

5-Maintenance fees - should I be worried of rising costs since the resort is old?

6-How long does everyone expect for these points to have value since 2042 is when the owners relinquish everything back to Big Mouse? I mean this is mostly okay for me anyway, I'm doing it to go on vacation, not to make money back.

Anyway sorry for the rant. Your info will be very helpful.
 
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drusba

I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
Joined
Aug 19, 1999
There is no "BVC." From the post, I assume you mean BWV (Boardwalk Villas).

1-Family of 4 (two kids). Is 106 points enough? Should I be concerned I'll be able to get a Studio room (7 nights) even with the 11 month window. I'll avoid the major peak times and probably would try to go to October-early December.

October to December is currently part of DVC’s high demand time of the year, which runs from late Sep to marathon weekend in Jan (Disney in general and DVC peak times are not the same). The first week of Dec is the highest DVC demand week of the year, the second week of Dec is the third highest (Christmas week is number 2).

106 points is enough to get only a standard studio for a week in the times you mention. Owners of a resort can make reservations beginning online at 8 a.m. eastern 11-months out from date of arrival. During that high demand time from late Sep to first part of Jan, standard studios very often book full within nanoseconds after 8 a.m. at 11-months out. The winner is mainly those whose computers reach Disney’s computers faster than others. Moreover, boardwalk view studios have a similar issue, and during the moderate DVC time of the year that runs from mid-Jan to late Sep, standard studios to a significant degree, and boardwalk studios only to a low extent, have the same problem.

2-Would you be able to distribute two years of points within 11 months? ( know you bank, borrow from the next year, but still confused on timing. I proposed the idea to the wife, that we would go in December 2021 and return in November 2022, taking advantage of the DVC Annual Pass deal. We would then take a year off from Disney and bank (or sell the points). Is the annual pass something that is pretty understood as a good strategy?

You can bank points from any given use year into the next use year as long as you do it by the eight month of the use year. For any given trip you can also borrow points from the next future use year when making the reservation. Regardless of which one you do, you can always make a reservation at home resort beginning 11-months out from date of arrival – only issue is to assure the points are in the use year you want to go (not time you call to reserve). In other words, if for example you have a Sep use year and want a trip in Oct 2021, you could (a) bank your Sep 2020 points into the Sep 2021 use year before making the reservation, (b) go online in Nov 2020, 11-months out, to make the reservation, and (c) at that time you could use those banked points, the Sep 2021 points (the “current” use year points for that Oct 2021 trip) and borrow points from the Sep 2022 use year.

3-The charts that came out show an increase from 2020 to 2021 for certain times. Do I need to be concerned that the Studio room in 2020 which price me out in 5 years?

The answer is yes, you need to be concerned.. Though total points for a resort need to stay the same, points can be shifted from one season to another, e.g., DVC could lower points for the summer season while raising them by an equal amount in the fall season for a standard studio. The reason for making such a change is to deal with changes in demand patterns that can occur over time. The change you see for 2021 is actually a response to that over-demand that built up over the years for fall season. Moreover, another change could be coming even as early as the 2022 charts to raise those Fall points further while lowering other seasons.

4-Will a Studio be big enough for my family of 4? (two daughters 8 and 5)

That is a personal choice. Many do that but many, including me, do not, because we need far more space with four.

5-Maintenance fees - should I be worried of rising costs since the resort is old?

Age of the resort is not the main factor. Dues are charged annually for the yearly operations and maintenance of the resort and to build up capital reserves to deal with major refurbishments. Dues typically rise annually a few percentage points simply because the cost of everything rises annually. A major part of the dues actually go to wages and benefits to workers, and as those rise, like they recently did starting last year with a new union contract at WDW, you can get some significant increases. Go here where you will find a post that actually sets out the per point dues per year for all the resorts since 1993 https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-dvc-resource-center-updated-december-2019.3655476/

6-How long does everyone expect for these points to have value since 2042 is when the owners relinquish everything back to Big Mouse? I mean this is mostly okay for me anyway, I'm doing it to go on vacation, not to make money back.

Opinions vary. Do not purchase on the concept that you will be able to recover your money via a resale. BWV has less than 22 years left. Likely, sale prices will start to decline at some point, which might be sooner rather than later.
 
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mattpeto

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 2, 2019
Thanks so much for the info. Guess I really should look into getting at a minimum of 150 points.

Regarding the annual pass, that’s a typical strategy, correct?

Fixed the typo too, thanks
 
  • Bing Showei

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2017
    1-Family of 4 (two kids). Is 106 points enough? Should I be concerned I'll be able to get a Studio room (7 nights) even with the 11 month window. I'll avoid the major peak times and probably would try to go to October-early December.
    106 will unlikely be enough for a few reasons that fall outside of a quick check of the point charts.

    First would be that 2021 charts show that the bulk of your travel would cost between 90 and 114 points. The only way to hit 90 would be to consistently book Standard View studios year after year. This will prove to be an unrealistic expectation because 1) Your October through early December desires travel time is actually peak Disney timeshare time (points costs are cheaper, Food and Wine, weather is cooler, etc.), and not low season as it is in the rest of the world. 2) Standard View rooms account for only 21% of available studios (29 Boardwalk view, 165 Pool/Garden view, 52 Standard view).

    Given these two points, standard view rooms have proven elusive even to owners who book well within the owners’ 11-7-month window. As such, buying enough to use the points to stay in a standard view studio regularly is unrealistic. Projecting point requirements, it would be best to budget by weighting more heavily the cost of staying P/G most of the time.

    Second point to consider is that the 2021 point charts are likely to be only a first step of point adjustments that may see further cost increase during peak Disney timeshare time. We are likely to see a continued trend of the highest demand periods (early October through mid-January) costing more than what it presently does.

    As of now your projected 106 point buy-in is unlikely to serve your needs long-term and may ultimately lead to more frustration than you may want to expend on vacation planning.
    2-Would you be able to distribute two years of points within 11 months? ( know you bank, borrow from the next year, but still confused on timing. I proposed the idea to the wife, that we would go in December 2021 and return in November 2022, taking advantage of the DVC Annual Pass deal. We would then take a year off from Disney and bank (or sell the points). Is the annual pass something that is pretty understood as a good strategy?
    Unless you are a FL resident, to get the Annual Pass discount, you would need a blue card. To get a blue card, you would need to buy 100+ direct points. To buy 100+ direct points at BWV, you would need to blow up any notion of effectively saving money vis-a-vis said annual pass.

    That inconvenient mathematical reality aside, the strategy of using a single annual pass to cover two trips in one 12-month stretch works with or without a Disney timeshare. As it pertains to points, as long as you have the points available (banked, current, or borrowed) when the trips take place, the plan should work.

    You will always book 11 months from check in, regardless of what your UY is. I suggest you research more about understanding your UY.
    3-The charts that came out show an increase from 2020 to 2021 for certain times. Do I need to be concerned that the Studio room in 2020 which price me out in 5 years?
    See above. Don’t buy planning to get SV rooms regularly
    4-Will a Studio be big enough for my family of 4? (two daughters 8 and 5)
    This is very personal. The reason my family bought into Disney’s timeshare is that we were staying more and more in larger accommodations than a hotel room, and we are only a family of three.
    I know many who are perfectly happy squeezing their family of five into any studio that will take them. I would personally be unhappy doing this as it would compromise how much I would enjoy my vacation. Moving beyond studios introduced not only a lot more space, but you will also get a full kitchen and a washer/dryer in your unit. This of course comes at a steep cost. 1BRs are consistently near double the cost of a studio equivalent.

    Personally, I would be more concerned that eight years into owning, you’ll have two teenagers sharing one room and one bathroom with with you and your wife. 1BRs won’t solve this (unless you are at Kidani/BLT) but it will give you more room to spread out.
    5-Maintenance fees - should I be worried of rising costs since the resort is old?
    Annual Dues over the life of your contract will dwarf whatever the buy in cost. Historically, we’ve seen about a 4-5% increase in annual dues across all resorts. Some have seen a lot more some years, some less. But increases in dues should be expected and those increases will exceed both inflation and annual income growth. Using OKW as an example (largest data sample available), dues cost today do not reflect what the cost was 30 years ago even when converting into 2020 dollars. The gap continues to widen year after year, so expect that trend to continue.

    Silver lining: the slow boil is gradual enough that most owners slowly adjust over time despite any momentary, incremental increase.
    6-How long does everyone expect for these points to have value since 2042 is when the owners relinquish everything back to Big Mouse? I mean this is mostly okay for me anyway, I'm doing it to go on vacation, not to make money back.
    Best advice, I’ve seen on these boards is to buy to use. Full stop. Secure the contracts with disposable income and treat the money as gone when you sign on the dotted line. If you go in with this approach, you won’t be disappointed when Disney inevitably makes a change that will change what you originally bought. From free tickets for the length of your stay, valet parking, to the ability to stay at other non-home resorts, the product has evolved over time. what hasn’t changed is a minimum 1-month advantage to book your home resort. But that’s really all you should count on.

    You didn’t specifically ask about this, but I wanted to circle back to this one point you made:
    $500/night - I just can't swing that unless it's every 3 or 4 years. It's too big of a number to save up for.
    Back of the napkin math would suggest that $500/night every 3-4 years is probably less than what you will end up paying with Disney’s timeshare. Your per night cost will go down, but going every year will negate any “savings” you may see committing to coming back every year for the next 21 years. Room costs are just one part of a Disney trip. You have travel costs, food, ticket prices/APs. All of this would give me pause if saving up to travel every 3-4 years feels daunting today. You will be spending more money if you choose to buy in. There will be more Disney trips, but it will cost a lot more than what you’re paying today. If you can afford that, great. But don’t go into this expecting to save money. Financing a direct purchase at BWV would complicates any attempt to save money even further.
     

    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    To get the DVC AP you have to purchase your points directly from Disney. You have gone very careful calculating the value of BWV based on a direct purchase, because you will pay thousands more for your contract for the privilege of the AP purchase at DVC rate.

    Boardwalk is currently $200 per point direct. On 100 points you will save $5000+ resale.

    The AP benefit is not guaranteed for life of contract.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    Regarding the annual pass, that’s a typical strategy, correct?

    Fixed the typo too, thanks
    Yes, there are members who buy an annual pass to use for two trips per year so long as both of the trips end within a one-year calendar period. However, absent actual Florida residency, you will need to buy at least 100 points from Disney rather than just resale to be able to get a membership card that allows you to get discounted DVC annual passes (or any available DVC discounts such as on merchandise or at restaurants). In fact, the lowest cost AP, the Gold pass, which excludes a couple weeks around both of Easter and Christmas, will be unavailable to you entirely absent that 100 point purchase from Disney.
     
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    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    I am with you on Boardwalk OP, I’d 100% have bought there had they offered a contract extension. But I cannot bring myself to buy a resort with only 22 years left for the prices being charged. Luckily I stay in 1 beds and so getting in Boardwalk never seems to be a problem (and you can score studios in off DVC peak times like summer).

    I am with Bing- no way would I want to be in a studio with my two kids all the time. If you buy enough points for a 1 bed you get vastly superior accommodation but also great flexibility at 7 months.
     

    mattpeto

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2019
    To get the DVC AP you have to purchase your points directly from Disney. You have gone very careful calculating the value of BWV based on a direct purchase, because you will pay thousands more for your contract for the privilege of the AP purchase at DVC rate.

    Boardwalk is currently $200 per point direct. On 100 points you will save $5000+ resale.

    The AP benefit is not guaranteed for life of contract.
    I didn’t realize to get the Gold AP, you had to be Direct. That’s a bummer.
     

    mattpeto

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2019
    This feedback was unfortunately very helpful. Maybe it's not for my family.

    I'd like to visit Boardwalk average every 1.5 years. I thought that buying a DVC would make it more affordable to do so instead of getting rack rate, but way more to consider before that.
     

    MICKIMINI

    Love the Mouse!
    Joined
    Sep 6, 2003
    Owning DVC IMO seems to be a lifestyle choice. We bought OKW in 1996 when our friends were having in ground pools installed or were buying boats or bikes. To us, the flexibility makes total sense in that we can go where we want, when we want (within restrictions and availability) and in any size villa we want depending on who comes with us. Our son and DIL are enjoying trips with us now and we have enough points so that they can take a couple 3-4 day trips a year as well. We aren't big spenders the rest of the year - which I believe is our secret as I tuck money away so our trip is paid for before we go each year. It has turned into a 25 year family tradition with us and it still makes us happy! I would take a hard look at your finances and travel patterns to see how much you spend a year and work backwards. You can start with a small, loaded contract and then buy another down the road. It isn't do or die right now - get what you can afford.
     

    TexasChick123

    Always Dreaming of Our Next Vacation
    Joined
    Feb 19, 2017
    DVC doesn’t save any money because we all end up traveling to Disney more than we would if we didn’t own DVC. If you’re a person who travels to WDW several times a year and stays in moderates or deluxe hotels, then DVC saves you money. If not, then you’ll spend more money owning DVC.

    I love owning DVC because I can now travel to Disney more than in the past without it breaking the bank. I’m still spending more money overall, but I get to go more without the eye rolls from my DH. ;) For us, it also gives me a place to go when he wants to go hunting or fishing for a long weekend. My DD and I go to Disney while he and my DS go hunting. We’re all getting to do our own things that we love. :)
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Thanks so much for the info. Guess I really should look into getting at a minimum of 150 points.

    Regarding the annual pass, that’s a typical strategy, correct?

    Fixed the typo too, thanks
    You are only eligible for the annual pass discount if you buy direct, Buying resale won’t get you thst, or the ability to stay at RIV or future resorts,

    Buying BWV direct is $190/pt. Resale is around $120 to $125/point. So, thats about $10K more. With the family of 4, it’s about $2k savings with the pass. If you went ever other year, it will take about 10 years to break even on that difference. It could end up worth it in the long run, especially if after owning, you end up going yearly...which does happen!
     

    mattpeto

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2019
    My original idea was go twice in a 11 month period, using the Annual Pass. Then take a year off (essentially not return for nearly 2 years).

    The non Gold AP are expensive and I think ROI was around 12 days or so before it made sense to get it.
     

    CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Aug 18, 1999
    This feedback was unfortunately very helpful. Maybe it's not for my family.

    I'd like to visit Boardwalk average every 1.5 years. I thought that buying a DVC would make it more affordable to do so instead of getting rack rate, but way more to consider before that.
    You sound like a good candidate to rent DVC points. Give some thought and research time to that option. It will be less expensive than paying cash via Disney and will avoid the need to finance as well as the necessity of making a long term commitment. But it will allow you to stay in larger accommodations than a basic hotel room while paying "moderate" prices. It will also allow you to try other DVC resorts as your tastes and needs change.

    Here are a few threads to help you get started on that:



    Good luck with your research!
     

    mattpeto

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2019
    You sound like a good candidate to rent DVC points. Give some thought and research time to that option. It will be less expensive than paying cash via Disney and will avoid the need to finance as well as the necessity of making a long term commitment. But it will allow you to stay in larger accommodations than a basic hotel room while paying "moderate" prices. It will also allow you to try other DVC resorts as your tastes and needs change.

    Here are a few threads to help you get started on that:



    Good luck with your research!
    Thanks, I've kind of hedged away from doing that maybe that's a good strategy, at least for next trip.
     

    Matty B13

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 13, 2016
    I second the renting points idea, BWV is very expensive right now and only has 22 years left. Depending on your ages and your kids this might now be the best idea.

    I would look into SSR resale or even buying direct at Riviera. You may also want to look into buying enough points to get a 1 bedroom unit at most resorts you will have a pretty good chance of getting what you want.
     

    4luv2cdisney

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 30, 2008
    We are a family of 4 “living on” 60 points. We have direct benefits because we bought before the 100 point minimum.

    My daughters are 17 and 21 and we have no issues staying in a studio together.

    We went in December 2018 and November 2019 with annual passes.

    We were able to secure standard studios both trips (don’t count on this) AND we only do 5 (or 6) nights. If you arrive in the morning on day 1 and take a red-eye home on last day... well... it’s a way to stretch your points. Yes, you are homeless for a bit on each end. We find it’s not a big deal if you plan accordingly.

    Remember timing is everything. If you bought an Oct UY contract in the next few months and aren’t planning a trip until 2021, you can bank your 2019 points and they are good until September 30 2021. If you don’t need them, rent them to offset your purchase price. For a December 2021 trip use your 2020 points (banked) and s few from 2021. November 2022, use the remaining 2021 points (banked) and again some from current UY (2022). Now you’ve got some 2022 to bank (New expire September 30 2024) or rent if you don’t need. Personally, I think you’re fine with 100 if you are looking at times when 7 nights in a p/g view costs 100 -120 points.

    Our plan has always been to add on but we started with the bare minimum to get our foot in the door. Wish we’d done it 10 years ago.

    Direct is costly. We have absorbed the premium we paid for ours already with just 2 sets of APs (one set purchased but not yet used). For you, at 100 points, it will likely take 3 sets. ($475 x 4 x 3). We find it to be worth it, but many do not.

    Life changes a lot in 20-30-40 years. We are now looking for a SSR resale contract. We love love love BWV despite the annoying 2042 expiration but we would also like to try other resorts sometimes by split stay or rotating (although it pains me to think of not staying at BW for at least a few nights). If I could go back in time, I would have bought SSR OR BLT direct first To secure my direct benefits until 2054 / 2060 and been looking for a BWV resale but the reality is, we wouldn’t have gotten our last 2 trips at BWV standard studios....so... eh.

    IMO, your issue is that you don’t have 20K for your buy in. There are ways to finance for free or near free for probably 2 years, but if you can’t pay it off in that time frame, it’s really tough to justify a purchase.
     

    mattpeto

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2019
    We are a family of 4 “living on” 60 points. We have direct benefits because we bought before the 100 point minimum.

    My daughters are 17 and 21 and we have no issues staying in a studio together.

    We went in December 2018 and November 2019 with annual passes.

    We were able to secure standard studios both trips (don’t count on this) AND we only do 5 (or 6) nights. If you arrive in the morning on day 1 and take a red-eye home on last day... well... it’s a way to stretch your points. Yes, you are homeless for a bit on each end. We find it’s not a big deal if you plan accordingly.

    Remember timing is everything. If you bought an Oct UY contract in the next few months and aren’t planning a trip until 2021, you can bank your 2019 points and they are good until September 30 2021. If you don’t need them, rent them to offset your purchase price. For a December 2021 trip use your 2020 points (banked) and s few from 2021. November 2022, use the remaining 2021 points (banked) and again some from current UY (2022). Now you’ve got some 2022 to bank (New expire September 30 2024) or rent if you don’t need. Personally, I think you’re fine with 100 if you are looking at times when 7 nights in a p/g view costs 100 -120 points.

    Our plan has always been to add on but we started with the bare minimum to get our foot in the door. Wish we’d done it 10 years ago.

    Direct is costly. We have absorbed the premium we paid for ours already with just 2 sets of APs (one set purchased but not yet used). For you, at 100 points, it will likely take 3 sets. ($475 x 4 x 3). We find it to be worth it, but many do not.

    Life changes a lot in 20-30-40 years. We are now looking for a SSR resale contract. We love love love BWV despite the annoying 2042 expiration but we would also like to try other resorts sometimes by split stay or rotating (although it pains me to think of not staying at BW for at least a few nights). If I could go back in time, I would have bought SSR OR BLT direct first To secure my direct benefits until 2054 / 2060 and been looking for a BWV resale but the reality is, we wouldn’t have gotten our last 2 trips at BWV standard studios....so... eh.

    IMO, your issue is that you don’t have 20K for your buy in. There are ways to finance for free or near free for probably 2 years, but if you can’t pay it off in that time frame, it’s really tough to justify a purchase.
    Thanks so much for that info.

    With 318 points over 3 years (106 points per year), I should be able to bank, borrow and have two full weeks at Boardwalk within those 3 years, correct?
     

    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Thanks so much for that info.

    With 318 points over 3 years (106 points per year), I should be able to bank, borrow and have two full weeks at Boardwalk within those 3 years, correct?
    The big risk of trying to use 3 years at once are cancellations or orphan points.
     

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