Buying a puppy online???

[princessmom29]

It's not the mix breed that is a gamble to me. I have no issue with having a dog that isn't a purebred. I do feel, that I need to know the dogs history and the way it's been cared for and handled since birth. Even a puppy that has been miss handled at a few weeks old, is starting to learn it's defense mechanisms. I felt it was safer for my kids, that I deal with a breeder that has children in the puppies lives from only a few days old.

I do hear what you are saying, about doxies being a little tempermental. I have just never experienced it. My vet has 6 in her office, that wander freely. All the kids that come in, head over, pick them up, twirl them around and they have no issues with it.

Actually the meanest dog I have ever encountered, was a Golden Retriever......the breed that is supposed to be EXCELLENT with kids!

Exactly. It is not the idea of a mixed breed that bothers me. Not at all. I don't know where anyone got that? It is not knowing the history of the dog, regardless of breed.

 

[princessmom29]

I know! As I said, I am very familiar with dachshunds and them being referred to as doxies, but I was like she picked THAT breed specifically because of safety issues with a small child? Wow. I even thought MAYBE she just happened to pick that name for her dog which was a breed known for its patience with kids and gentle nature. Apparently not!

Even lovers of dachshunds freely acknowledge the breed's inclination towards possessiveness and irritability with children and strangers. Here's just one reference online, but there are tons of them, and it is really common knowledge.

http://www.dachworld.com/dispositiontemperament.htm

I dunno, I just don't get "I don't want to gamble on a mixed breed; let me buy a purebred dog that is more difficult with children than most." LOL

I didn't say I didn't want a mixed breed. In fact I would have preferred a small mixed breed of known parentage. What I didn't want was a dog with a traumatic past I didn't know about. As for doxies being more difficult with children than most, my vet, who happens to have raised doxies for 20 plus years is another one who would disagree with you. She has 2 young children and says doxies are very good with kids when they have been raised with them. The only issues she has seen is with a dioxe who grew up in a house with one elderly lady who never took her out anywhere. That one old lady was the only person she ever saw, so she didn't care for the vet. My BIL is a vetrinary internist and we also consulted with him before purchasing a dog. He told us that doxies were a great breed in ahouse with kids. I trust thier judgment much more than some stranger on the internet. My bil is not gonig to suggest a breed that puts his niece at risk.

 

[Melissa]

I was worried too we have a 9 month old Golden Doodle ( No shedding) found them online and it was great, it is a family they live on a farm and have lots of kids and do breeding for college money. I talked to the mom a lot and I felt good about it. I checked out their vet they used before hand too. Simon is the best 1200 dollars I ever spent. If you want their website Pm me I am not sure if I can post it here. They are in Kentucky.

 

[dixonismydog]

ours is an English Cream. She is the sweetest girl ever and very good with kids. The whole neighborhood loves her.

I know right?! Dixon is our EC and he is adored wherever we go! The kids at school love when the weather is nice, so I can bring him after school for a visit! EC's rock...wish I could have more!

 

[princessmom29]

I know right?! Dixon is our EC and he is adored wherever we go! The kids at school love when the weather is nice, so I can bring him after school for a visit! EC's rock...wish I could have more!

She gets a lot of attention wherever we go b/c they are not that common here. The first thing out of everyone's mouth is "is that a doxie", and then "can we pet her?" both answers are always yes. In my experience, they have a more laid back personality than other doxies. Our Bella is a lap dog if ever there was one.

 

[EMom]

Pit bulls were once called the nanny dogs... they were war heros. Until the media and irresponsible owners painted such a negative picture of them...

Cocker Spaniels send more people to the hospital with bite wounds than pits do each year. Even fighting pits are bred so that in the middle of a bloody (disgusting) fight, a human can reach between and separate the dogs without being bit.

Please don't use pits as the example of a biting dog. That only ads to the problem many of us who know and understand the breed are trying to fight.

People who want a certain breed and want to go to a breeder for it but "don't care about breed standards" baffle me. It is clear you are not supporting a responsible breeder if don't even care about standards to the characteristics of that breed, is it not??

Seriously? I know that makes all the pit-mauled people and animals feel better. Again, to some, it seems nothing is EVER a pit's fault.

 

[princessmom29]

Seriously? I know that makes all the pit-mauled people and animals feel better. Again, to some, it seems nothing is EVER a pit's fault.

exactly.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I don't think it is ridculous. To be honest. I just took a quick look on petfinder and most all of the breeds that came up are pitbulls I saw maybe one or two dogs there that i would recommend for a friend with kids to consider, most of them, no way.
They maybe sweet dogs, but I would not own a pitbullor a pit mix. To each there own.
To be fair I only looked at the first two pages go look yourself zip is 08840.

Off to dog handling class.

I put in your zip code and the first dog that shows up is a Chihuahua, then a dachshund, then a pug beagle mix, wheaten terrier, then another Chihuahua. True after those and especially the second page there were a few pit bulls or terriers of sorts. But they weren't the only dogs available. There were 443 pages of dogs in your zip code.

 

[cnlmom]

well drat it all....I checked that zip in petfinder cause I could not believe all she saw was pits....and she is right at that particular shelter there seemed to be an abundance of them. It was listed as a municipal animal control...so they take in everything, they have to as a municipal shelter. However they also had several chis, a french bulldog, a dachie, a pug, several labs, a golden, a jrt, a cattle dog, a wheaten terrier and several other small to medium size mixes.

My point, is yes, there unfortunatly is an abundance of pits, chows, large mixes of various temperments at municipal animal controls, but there are also diamonds in the rough to super bright already perfect diamonds there as well. Animals that are wonderful, who through no fault of their own ended up there. People die, people move, people's lives change...there are a zillion reasons.

There are also thousands of grassroots type rescue groups such as the one I belong to who have many wonderful dogs of all sizes and breeds available. Check out zip code 28115 and look at the rescue with the word Lake in it...you will not see a pit in the bunch, although to be honest it is not our most glorious group at the moment. You can go and check out all our previously adopted animals to see what we have already saved.

I used to be a stand on my soapbox and yell my beliefs on animal rights to everyone, but found when I took a softer approach it worked better for me. People were willing to listen when I was less angry. Does not mean I am less angry, I just present myself differently.

No sense of yelling at someone who has obviously not neutered his dog....(although it is fun to yell out balls are for fetching....but I digress) offer info on the health benefits, tell them where to get neutering done at low cost, discuss how neutering reduces aggression, let the human men know it is not as tramatic as they think it will be. Plant a seed, educate, they might not want to today, but they may think about it and come back later.

There are numerous issues with large scale backyard breeders, petshops and puppy mills, dogs not healthy, not breed well, sketchy backrounds...yada yada yada...but the bottom line is the animals are NOT treated humanely in general. I am not talking about giving the silk pillows and designer biscuts. I mean basic needs such as food, water, and shelter are not met. They live in their own feces in tiny cages for their whole lives and dogs that come out of those situations have many issues. All that said, it is NOT THE DOGS fault...that is why I rescue.

A few pages ago the comment was made that if we rescue we in essence are supporting puppy mills. I want to say NONONONO we are not, and we are not directly. Puppy milll, petstore and large scale backyard breeders who do not sell their "stock" need to "cull" to make room for more puppies these animals either end up being disposed of by death or discarded in a shelter. Just like livestock needs to be culled when they are no longer producing. Not pleasant to think about, but is reality. When I rescue from the shelter I am doing it for the animal. The breeder, petshop or puppy mill has wrote it off as a loss so he has not "made money".

The only instance that I can see where rescue inadvertenly helps a bad breeder is when we take their culls....by this I mean a bad breeder has a bunch of older "used up" animals usually around age 5 or 6...they have been breed out, went crazy due to being crated, are sick, ...whatever. Rescuers doing what is best for an animal and having huge hearts will "rescue" these discards for the sake of the animals welfare. However the backlash of this is it just cleans out house for them to start "fresh". These situations are not frequent, but happen. The goal of course would be to have the law step in and put the bad breeder out of business, but this is difficult and time consuming to build a case.
Others will disagree this, but I have seen it happen. I stuggled with this exact situation. Ultimatly we took the "culls" because we had pity for them. Let Karma or whomever handle dealing with the bad breeder when he has to answer his/her maker.

I am not anti-breeder...I am a humanitarian and want to see all creatures treated with kindness and dignity...this is not what happens in many many many circumstances and it is well documented.

This is what riles up the feathers of rescuers and makes us so passonate.

There are good breeders out there that are caring people who love their breeds and take excellent care of their animals, but for every one of them there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other people who are simply out to make a quick buck off the backs of a living creature. Sometimes their intentions are good, particulary in the case of the occassional breeder who just wants to "let their dog experience just a litter or two" and think it is win win cause in the process "we can make a few bucks". But these are not what I would call quality breeder level dogs.


In my other post I talked about how bad breeders trick or fool potential buyers. Just beware like anything else. Histories of animals can be created out of thin air, what you think are the puppies parents might not be in reality. Know that AKC does NOT regulate their breeders.

 

[CinRell]

Seriously? I know that makes all the pit-mauled people and animals feel better. Again, to some, it seems nothing is EVER a pit's fault.

I'm sure this statement makes all the people who own wonderful pits who are therapy dogs, loved family members, great dogs... don't blame the breed as a whole. More people kill people than pits... does that make all people murderers??

Sorry this is OT but the generalizations aren't fair... blame the deed, not the breed...

 

[dixonismydog]

well drat it all....I checked that zip in petfinder cause I could not believe all she saw was pits....and she is right at that particular shelter there seemed to be an abundance of them. It was listed as a municipal animal control...so they take in everything, they have to as a municipal shelter. However they also had several chis, a french bulldog, a dachie, a pug, several labs, a golden, a jrt, a cattle dog, a wheaten terrier and several other small to medium size mixes.

My point, is yes, there unfortunatly is an abundance of pits, chows, large mixes of various temperments at municipal animal controls, but there are also diamonds in the rough to super bright already perfect diamonds there as well. Animals that are wonderful, who through no fault of their own ended up there. People die, people move, people's lives change...there are a zillion reasons.

There are also thousands of grassroots type rescue groups such as the one I belong to who have many wonderful dogs of all sizes and breeds available. Check out zip code 28115 and look at the rescue with the word Lake in it...you will not see a pit in the bunch, although to be honest it is not our most glorious group at the moment. You can go and check out all our previously adopted animals to see what we have already saved.

I used to be a stand on my soapbox and yell my beliefs on animal rights to everyone, but found when I took a softer approach it worked better for me. People were willing to listen when I was less angry. Does not mean I am less angry, I just present myself differently.

No sense of yelling at someone who has obviously not neutered his dog....(although it is fun to yell out balls are for fetching....but I digress) offer info on the health benefits, tell them where to get neutering done at low cost, discuss how neutering reduces aggression, let the human men know it is not as tramatic as they think it will be. Plant a seed, educate, they might not want to today, but they may think about it and come back later.

There are numerous issues with large scale backyard breeders, petshops and puppy mills, dogs not healthy, not breed well, sketchy backrounds...yada yada yada...but the bottom line is the animals are NOT treated humanely in general. I am not talking about giving the silk pillows and designer biscuts. I mean basic needs such as food, water, and shelter are not met. They live in their own feces in tiny cages for their whole lives and dogs that come out of those situations have many issues. All that said, it is NOT THE DOGS fault...that is why I rescue.

A few pages ago the comment was made that if we rescue we in essence are supporting puppy mills. I want to say NONONONO we are not, and we are not directly. Puppy milll, petstore and large scale backyard breeders who do not sell their "stock" need to "cull" to make room for more puppies these animals either end up being disposed of by death or discarded in a shelter. Just like livestock needs to be culled when they are no longer producing. Not pleasant to think about, but is reality. When I rescue from the shelter I am doing it for the animal. The breeder, petshop or puppy mill has wrote it off as a loss so he has not "made money".

The only instance that I can see where rescue inadvertenly helps a bad breeder is when we take their culls....by this I mean a bad breeder has a bunch of older "used up" animals usually around age 5 or 6...they have been breed out, went crazy due to being crated, are sick, ...whatever. Rescuers doing what is best for an animal and having huge hearts will "rescue" these discards for the sake of the animals welfare. However the backlash of this is it just cleans out house for them to start "fresh". These situations are not frequent, but happen. The goal of course would be to have the law step in and put the bad breeder out of business, but this is difficult and time consuming to build a case.
Others will disagree this, but I have seen it happen. I stuggled with this exact situation. Ultimatly we took the "culls" because we had pity for them. Let Karma or whomever handle dealing with the bad breeder when he has to answer his/her maker.

I am not anti-breeder...I am a humanitarian and want to see all creatures treated with kindness and dignity...this is not what happens in many many many circumstances and it is well documented.

This is what riles up the feathers of rescuers and makes us so passonate.

There are good breeders out there that are caring people who love their breeds and take excellent care of their animals, but for every one of them there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other people who are simply out to make a quick buck off the backs of a living creature. Sometimes their intentions are good, particulary in the case of the occassional breeder who just wants to "let their dog experience just a litter or two" and think it is win win cause in the process "we can make a few bucks". But these are not what I would call quality breeder level dogs.


In my other post I talked about how bad breeders trick or fool potential buyers. Just beware like anything else. Histories of animals can be created out of thin air, what you think are the puppies parents might not be in reality. Know that AKC does NOT regulate their breeders.

Well said....I absolutley agree....and admire your passion and dedication to rescue! Kudos to you!

 

[marie1203]

I am sorry but the argument that a shelter puppy is not as save as a breeder puppy is just a lie. You really do not know how that shelter dog was handle and you also do not know how the breeder puppy was handle unless you were there 100% of the time. There are dogs that come pregnant to the shelter and are handle with care and love since the begging so it is just an excuse. Especially in really young dogs. We have our own very small rescue and we have 5 dogs of our own. Three of them were rescue as puppies right before they were going to be put down (ages were 12 weeks -16 weeks ) it is such a short amount of time that really will not impact on the dog behavior unless it is a breeding problem. From that day they been socialize, train, etc and they are wonderful dogs. Most trainers will say there is not such a things as a bad dog just a bad dog owner or an owner that doesn't understand their dog (or genetic problems). I could understand the argument in adopting an older dog from the shelter but not a puppy. Our dogs range from 3 years to 6 and we never ever had a problem. They been around babies, kids, older people, other dogs, cats.

 

[tammymacb]

I put in your zip code and the first dog that shows up is a Chihuahua, then a dachshund, then a pug beagle mix, wheaten terrier, then another Chihuahua. True after those and especially the second page there were a few pit bulls or terriers of sorts. But they weren't the only dogs available. There were 443 pages of dogs in your zip code.

But it's much easier on the conscience to say, "I can't adopt, all they have at the pound are pit bulls."

 

[jodifla]

Yes, cockers have been overbred and can be nippy. The cocker puppy I got from a family breeder (oh, the horror!) never bit anyone in his 16 years; the cocker adult I got from a rescue was a snapper and actually bit my husband. I always had to worry when people were around her.

Do cockers bite, yes, but getting KILLED by one is exceedingly rare, like one report in 20 years. In 30 years in journalism, I've never written the headline, "Cocker spaniel kills child." I've written several pit bull headlines.....including ones where the people were killed. And there was a terrible case just last month: (not our story though)

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2011/02/infants_death_spurs_debate_on.html
Monday, February 21, 2011
KALAMAZOO — The death of a 10-day-old infant in Kalamazoo who was attacked by the family's pit bull terrier has added fuel to an ongoing debate about whether pit bulls are dangerous animals.





http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

The deadliest dogs

Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

 

[jodifla]

I am sorry but the argument that a shelter puppy is not as save as a breeder puppy is just a lie. You really do not know how that shelter dog was handle and you also do not know how the breeder puppy was handle unless you were there 100% of the time. There are dogs that come pregnant to the shelter and are handle with care and love since the begging so it is just an excuse. Especially in really young dogs. We have our own very small rescue and we have 5 dogs of our own. Three of them were rescue as puppies right before they were going to be put down (ages were 12 weeks -16 weeks ) it is such a short amount of time that really will not impact on the dog behavior unless it is a breeding problem. From that day they been socialize, train, etc and they are wonderful dogs. Most trainers will say there is not such a things as a bad dog just a bad dog owner or an owner that doesn't understand their dog (or genetic problems). I could understand the argument in adopting an older dog from the shelter but not a puppy. Our dogs range from 3 years to 6 and we never ever had a problem. They been around babies, kids, older people, other dogs, cats.

A shelter puppy is likely as SAFE as a breeder puppy, because you can socialize them yourself, but you have ZERO medical history on them normally, so you can get a quite sick dog...straight out of one of those puppy mills.

 

[jodifla]

I have to say. ( And I know the warning is coming ) that last statement was possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on the Dis. And I've read some stupid things.

Completely, and totally uncalled for.

 

[jodifla]

But do you not see the issue here? You're saying we should care about those issues, should care very much about them, but then should ignore them. Don't buy from backyard breeders! Their dogs are unhealthy! Unless you find one in a shelter, then they're fine! Don't buy a dog of unknown or nonstandard parentage because there's no telling what horrible things are hidden in its DNA! Unless you find it in a shelter, then it's fine!

exactly.

 

[jodifla]

There's nothing about this thread that convinces me that it's a good idea for my family to use a rescue again (since we were lied to about age and health - and they want to give us a hard time about our child). It's clear from reading the responses that people who are so wrapped up in animals' care lose all their perspective.

Luckily, I've already found a good breeder for the type of dog we want when I was at the big dog show in town recently.

 

[Swalphin]

I want to make it clear nobody here has convinced me to ever buy a dog.

If someone wants to pay thousands of dollars so be it. I know for myself I never would buy a dog and I certainly would never expect anyone to convince me otherwise. Why breed or buy while a shelter dog dies.

 

[dixonismydog]

And there will be a point in my life, where I will only have a shelter dog as well. That won't be until my kids are much older, or out of the house. I then won't have the small kids around, that I do now. I just can't risk putting a shelter dog into a situation, where he will be uncomfortable enough to snap at someone.

We need to also remember, that as many horror stories as there are from puppy mills......like a PP said.....get your pet spayed or neutered. It's simple people. I will never understand these people, that think their females have to have "just one litter" of puppies. Like it's doing the dog some kind of favour?

I want to say too.....that I have had experience, with a stray dog in our family. Perhaps that is why I won't again, while the kids are young. We fostered a border collie (smart, beautiful, WONDERFUL dog)......until we could find him a home. He was very abused and negelected. We found out his story, after we had him for a couple of weeks. The Dad was in jail for spousal/child abuse....and the dog got some too, by his actions. Honestly funny thing is....he was excellent with the kids, it was my husband and I he had issues with. We found that out one day, when we were wrestling with the kids a bit. He thought we were hurting them, and bit both of us on the upper arms. He didn't even flinch. You could tell, he'd been in that situation before. He was doing what he thought he should....he was such a smart dog. SO......we found him a home with a guy in his early 20's, that was so eager to gain his trust and teach him life wasn't so scary.