Buyer pays 2016 MF?

[PSUDinsey]

The buyer accepted my offer but countered with me paying his MF for 2016. August use year?

Thoughts?

 

[CarolMN]

Depends - are you getting the full complement of 2016 use year points? Most brokers seem to believe the buyer should pay if he/she is getting the points for that year. If you aren't getting the full complement, I personally wouldn't be willing to pay / reimburse for 2016 dues. Dues are by calendar year, not use year. But that's me, not you.

The "neutral" position (for August use years), as Dean would say, is the seller pays dues for Jan - July and the buyer pays for Aug - Dec.

In the end it's all negotiable. No right, no wrong. Just what you & seller agree on. My advice is to look at the total cost out of your pocket and decide if that amount is what you think the contract is worth.

Good luck!

 

[Sandisw]

When I bought resale, I took the approach based on calendar year. I bought in August/September and asked to have the fees covered since by the time I would own the contract, the year would be 3/4's over. I was getting points as that was a Dec UY. When I made the offer, I took that into account when I submitted the bid for price per point. As a seller, I did the same thing. I looked at what I was ending up with from the offer, paying the fees (I was asked to pay them) and decided it was within what I wanted, so I accepted.

 

[disneynutz]

IMO the person who get the points, pays.

Bill

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'd also likely want to at least have the dues pro-rated but would consider the overall deal and not get to hung up on where the $$$'s were allocated in the purchase. At a minimum all the 2016 points would have to be there. If there were banked 2015 points that would make me a tiny bit more accepting but as Carol said and I agree that isn't how DVC calculates and charges for the dues. It's all negotiable with resale though and you should do the best possible to get the overall deal you want.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

The buyer accepted my offer but countered with me paying his MF for 2016. August use year?

Thoughts?

All of the above responses are helpful/correct, but in the end it doesn't really matter who pays what as much as it matters if you've achieved your desired "out the door" cost. There are three components to the sale: cost per point, MF, and closing costs. All are negotiable. Don't get hung up on who is paying what. You should instead focus on the final cost of the deal. Was your cost per point offer lower than market? If so, the seller may have just to decided to accept that, but ask you to pay the MF in order to bring up the effective price of the contract. Focus on the end result and if it's more than you're willing to pay, counter, or move on.

 

[Dean]

All of the above responses are helpful/correct, but in the end it doesn't really matter who pays what as much as it matters if you've achieved your desired "out the door" cost. There are three components to the sale: cost per point, MF, and closing costs. All are negotiable. Don't get hung up on who is paying what. You should instead focus on the final cost of the deal. Was your cost per point offer lower than market? If so, the seller may have just to decided to accept that, but ask you to pay the MF in order to bring up the effective price of the contract. Focus on the end result and if it's more than you're willing to pay, counter, or move on.

I agree, I wouldn't complicate things. It really just comes down to price per point, UY and points accounting. If you're getting all of the 2016 and future points, it's not that big of a difference and if you're getting banked points, it's even less of an issue.

 

[PSUDinsey]

I agree, I wouldn't complicate things. It really just comes down to price per point, UY and points accounting. If you're getting all of the 2016 and future points, it's not that big of a difference and if you're getting banked points, it's even less of an issue.

SSR - August use year - 143 points left for 2016, all 150 for 2017

70 bucks per point, I pay closing and MF for 2016

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

SSR - August use year - 143 points left for 2016, all 150 for 2017

70 bucks per point, I pay closing and MF for 2016

Quickly looking at the ROFR thread, your $70 per point is on the lower end. By asking you to pay 2016 MF on 143 points, they have increased your total cost by $778 (143 points X $5.44), or in other words, you're getting an effective price per point of $75.18 plus your closing costs. If that's where you want to be "out the door", then run with it. If you have some leeway on your initial offer and the $70 per point was just you starting low, then you could always counter. Some might say that countering in the form of a higher price per point versus paying the MF may be something to think about to increase your chances, albeit a small increase, of making it through ROFR. I think Disney is pretty good at figuring out the total contract cost, so the ball is in your court of how you want to proceed.

You may find that over the next few months, more contracts will be listed with the 2016 UY points (and even 2015 UY) being included with no MF requested.....the price per point will be the deciding factor in those contracts, but will most likely yield a better deal as loaded contracts often do.

 

[PSUDinsey]

Quickly looking at the ROFR thread, your $70 per point is on the lower end. By asking you to pay 2016 MF on 143 points, they have increased your total cost by $778 (143 points X $5.44), or in other words, you're getting an effective price per point of $75.18 plus your closing costs. If that's where you want to be "out the door", then run with it. If you have some leeway on your initial offer and the $70 per point was just you starting low, then you could always counter. Some might say that countering in the form of a higher price per point versus paying the MF may be something to think about to increase your chances, albeit a small increase, of making it through ROFR. I think Disney is pretty good at figuring out the total contract cost, so the ball is in your court of how you want to proceed.

You may find that over the next few months, more contracts will be listed with the 2016 UY points (and even 2015 UY) being included with no MF requested.....the price per point will be the deciding factor in those contracts, but will most likely yield a better deal as loaded contracts often do.

Some good Intel there thank you-

Do you think there are better deals to be had than SSR at 75.18 per point?

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

Some good Intel there thank you-

Do you think there are better deals to be had than SSR at 75.18 per point?

Somebody else more familiar with SSR pricing trends will have to chime in. Just quickly looking at the ROFR threads for this year, an effective price of $75.18 isn't bad, however, I personally like to look for contracts that are as fully loaded as possible and have found those to yield the lowest effective price per point (I picked up 2 fully loaded contracts last year at the end of August). FWIW, there was an Aug UY 150 point SSR contract almost identical to the one you've mentioned here that was taken by Disney on April 30 at $82 per point.

 

[Dean]

SSR - August use year - 143 points left for 2016, all 150 for 2017

70 bucks per point, I pay closing and MF for 2016

Sounds fair, just look at the overall package and decide if it's right for you. If 150 SSR points is right for you, I think you're fine.

 

[MouseOfCards]

SSR - August use year - 143 points left for 2016, all 150 for 2017

70 bucks per point, I pay closing and MF for 2016

Actually, that sounds like a great deal, based on the ROFR thread and our own recent experience. Hopefully, it will pass ROFR, since a PP mentioned Disney taking an SSR contract at $82/point. Also you might want to compare all closing costs, as some title companies may charge different fees, some require title insurance and some offer it as an option (at different costs as well), and some resale brokers may charge an additional "administrative fee". For example, for our 3 most recent transactions (for similar costing contracts), we were charged between $420 - $695. And that's not including the broker fee.

 

[msjprincess]

That sounds like a great deal to me. I wouldn't expect the seller to pay the MFs.

 

[Dean]

In that situation the buyer would be overpaying by about 7/12 on the dues by reimbursing for the entire year. The dues paid by the seller in Jan were for 7 months of the 2015 points and 5 months of the 2016 points and they are not getting use of any of the 2015 points they are paying part of the dues on.

 

[PSUDinsey]

I couldn't sign- it's probably a fair deal and I'm probably just at 51% against 49% for- and against is even a way too harsh word to use - the unknowns can i book at 7 months, can I rent if not, is going value at SSR the right choice for me, is renting really all that bad, is my time share at blue tree in buena vista not enough? So yeah I didn't sign. I am on a trip home to the east coast now and travel to Disneyland staying at the DLH the first week of August maybe I'll take a tour of the grand Californian and reconsider again- when I didn't sign i also put in for a wait list for the Marriott next to Aulani and the Westin on St. John- if those fall through I'll be looking for a split stay renting points at the grand Floridian and wilderness lodge. I will continue to lurk both here and at the resale sites- thanks everyone.

 

[Dean]

I couldn't sign- it's probably a fair deal and I'm probably just at 51% against 49% for- and against is even a way too harsh word to use - the unknowns can i book at 7 months, can I rent if not, is going value at SSR the right choice for me, is renting really all that bad, is my time share at blue tree in buena vista not enough? So yeah I didn't sign. I am on a trip home to the east coast now and travel to Disneyland staying at the DLH the first week of August maybe I'll take a tour of the grand Californian and reconsider again- when I didn't sign i also put in for a wait list for the Marriott next to Aulani and the Westin on St. John- if those fall through I'll be looking for a split stay renting points at the grand Floridian and wilderness lodge. I will continue to lurk both here and at the resale sites- thanks everyone.

Those are tall orders with Blue Tree for several reasons. The resort quality likely falls too low to make it workable through II, Orlando in general trades relatively poorly in II (it's still an issue in RCI but less so) and the Marriott & Westin internal trading priority limits the number of deposits potentially available. I'm of the opinion that owning Orlando as a trade or use/trade villa is not a great option unless it's a specialty unit (3 BR or so), fixed week for about 4 weeks a year that one will use or it has other value such as an internal trading preference (Marriott/Starwood (Westin)) or it is part of a mini system. Other than short notice (inside 60 days) or going to a studio, I doubt one will have much chance of getting a larger villa at the Westin or Marriott properties.

The other issue is one can't trade it to DVC. You may want to consider a non DVC timeshare that trades well in RCI and that is not in Orlando while not listing the BT week in that RCI account if you haven't already. Owning outside Orlando and trading in to great options is very workable with planning 52 weeks of the year and workable without much advance planning for many weeks. A good non Orlando RCI points resort is likely the single best option for that situation if trading to DVC is a major goal. Lot's of variable, good luck.

 

[PSUDinsey]

Those are tall orders with Blue Tree for several reasons. The resort quality likely falls too low to make it workable through II, Orlando in general trades relatively poorly in II (it's still an issue in RCI but less so) and the Marriott & Westin internal trading priority limits the number of deposits potentially available. I'm of the opinion that owning Orlando as a trade or use/trade villa is not a great option unless it's a specialty unit (3 BR or so), fixed week for about 4 weeks a year that one will use or it has other value such as an internal trading preference (Marriott/Starwood (Westin)) or it is part of a mini system. Other than short notice (inside 60 days) or going to a studio, I doubt one will have much chance of getting a larger villa at the Westin or Marriott properties.

The other issue is one can't trade it to DVC. You may want to consider a non DVC timeshare that trades well in RCI and that is not in Orlando while not listing the BT week in that RCI account if you haven't already. Owning outside Orlando and trading in to great options is very workable with planning 52 weeks of the year and workable without much advance planning for many weeks. A good non Orlando RCI points resort is likely the single best option for that situation if trading to DVC is a major goal. Lot's of variable, good luck.

I've never not gotten a Marriott that I requested including the one mentioned last year so hopefully- never tried for a Westin before so we will see. I have a two bedroom in what they call red week so I can book any week of the year.

Do you think after MF's the RCI membership fee plus the fee to trade it's still worth it to buy a RCI tradable resort?

 

[Brian Noble]

Do you think after MF's the RCI membership fee plus the fee to trade it's still worth it to buy a RCI tradable resort?

I generally discourage people from buying specifically to trade---in RCI or anywhere else. It's much safer to buy something you would be wiling to use most years---and buying in a mini-system makes that easier to do. This is because the exchange "game" is always changing, and what works today might not work tomorrow. For example, right now it is essentially impossible to get a 2BR at an Orlando DVC through RCI, though I've done that a number of times in the past.

 

[Dean]

I've never not gotten a Marriott that I requested including the one mentioned last year so hopefully- never tried for a Westin before so we will see. I have a two bedroom in what they call red week so I can book any week of the year.

Do you think after MF's the RCI membership fee plus the fee to trade it's still worth it to buy a RCI tradable resort?

The way Westin and Marriott work with II it's an uphill battle. For Ko Olina if one is off season (Jan, late April to early June, late Aug to mid Dec) it's certainly possible. Marriott holds the units for 24 days if it's outside the flexchange time when they are ONLY available to other Marriott owners, I think Starwood is only 3 days though I'm less familiar with that. I'll address the other question under Brian's post.

I generally discourage people from buying specifically to trade---in RCI or anywhere else. It's much safer to buy something you would be wiling to use most years---and buying in a mini-system makes that easier to do. This is because the exchange "game" is always changing, and what works today might not work tomorrow. For example, right now it is essentially impossible to get a 2BR at an Orlando DVC through RCI, though I've done that a number of times in the past.

I would generally agree with Brian but I think there are exceptions. Things like a Marriott to trade to other Marriott's, that it's often better to own elsewhere and trade to Orlando due to availability and the relatively poor trade power of Orlando for nicer properties and when the upside is so great such as trading to DVC. I would agree that just a single exchange plan, like to DVC, is high risk, best to own something that works on a larger scale. But for those that are sufficiently educated, owning to exchange can be a good option. One just needs to make great choices on the front end. As to whether having to pay for RCI and an exchange fee is worth it, it depends. If one is focused on DVC it can be. Also if one has sufficient volume that helps as well. But the mini systems like Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott points, and Bluegreen do offer significant advantage and tend to provide free access to at least one exchange company. For Marriott it's II, for Wyndham and BG it's RCI, I'm not sure about Hilton and others (Diamond, VRI, Shell etc). I tend to think that a high yield RCI points option with relatively low fees is still one of the better options where trading to DVC is a major focus.

On a side note, having something that's red time or even highly rated is not sufficient to be a good trader in II. II puts a LOT more emphasis on the demand of the area (not a specific resort, DVC was relatively low demand when in II) than RCI does and they put a lot more emphasis on the rating of a resort independent of exchange power. And they won't tell you that a given exchange may be out of bounds even if you ask most of the time.