Bus and shuttles to Disney do not have seatbelts

[CleveRocks]

I realize that what you're about to read is a hypothetical, but I just can't resist.

So Edd, I'm curious ... what if Van Hool, Neoplan, MCI and the rest of the major motor coach and transit bus manufacturers all got together next week and announced that all buses are being recalled to be retrofitted with state-of-the-art seat belts, side curtain airbags, fire retarding systems and personal guardian angels for each passenger, and that in addition, all buses rolling off the assembly lines from now on will be equipped with all of the above? Will you all of a sudden say, "You know what, nevermind, Disney's Magical Express is actually safer than all other forms of transportation and for the lives of your children and grandmothers I INSIST that all WDW-bound guests take DME from MCO."

Somehow, I think if the bus manufacturers made that announcement, Edd would move on to other scare tactics about what poor service he purports DME has. His safety screeds are just a desperate tactic.

Anyone who wants to read Edd in rare form, in attack dog mode, PM me and I'll send you the link to the thread on the other board where he attacked me and refused to listen to reason (I'm all for respectful disagreement, debate, and honest differences of opinion -- GOD BLESS AMERICA -- but I can't tolerate dishonesty and misleading statements). I don't think DISboards would appreciate a publicly-posted link to another message board (even if it's a pathetic little message board with, I think, 11 members or something like that).

And to everyone else, I am SO SORRY for feeding the troll. My bad. I should have just kicked pepperw23's dog instead.

 

[Edd]

I would compliment the bus industry on the move to passenger safety. That goes for Disney or Mears who provide the transportation to the parks. Commercial busses are the only hold outs on installing better safety equipment aboard public transportation. It is not for the reason everyone thinks. It is money. The school bus industry is also fighting regulation in favor of passenger safety. Again money over passenger safety.

 

[Edd]

Sorry I hit the button before I corrected my statement. I was about to finish it up by saying it would be a bold move for Disney to tell Mears to make seat belts available to riders of the DME and the shuttles. I have no war with the DME, my business has picked up tremendously since the advent of the DME.

 

[Edd]

One small tidbit to this whole article. CleveRocks is the Shawn Hannitty of the Disboards. You can take this comment whatever way you want.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I got harrassed at MCO by a limo driver who felt the need to tell me that "if you are going to ME you will never get to Disney"

Now, that's funny! No, there are now thousands of DME buses driving around Florida and the rest of the country, keeping millions of riders hostage and NEVER arriving at Disney. Disney, in turn, has become the largest bus-fleet owner in the world, since they have to keep buying new buses - and hiring new drivers - to replace the ones that are preventing Guests from arriving at Walt Disney World...

When the first bus or van turns over and kills 5 - 10 kids plus adults, I will bet the next day the busses are equipped with seat belts.

No, actually there HAVE been relatively devastating bus accidents - to whit, a tour bus taking students from Massachusetts to Canada overturned. Several years ago. STILL no seat belts on school, tour or public transit buses.

Claim: Anti-seat belt law advocate is killed in automobile accident.
Status: True.

That person made a CHOICE, knowing the possible outcome. Bus riders at Disney make a CHOICE to use that mode of transportation, knowing the possible outcome). Any Guest can CHOOSE not to ride a bus. Rent a car or take a cab - they have seatbelts.

Unfortunately, there have been posts on this board and other boards that try to make DME sound dangerous, unreliable, overcrowded, and "horrible"

I don't recall reading such posts BUT - as far as I know, DME buses transport no more than the number of passengers for which there are seats.... so how can they be considered overcrowded?

Instead of barraging us with "possibilities", why not give us some real facts. Tell us when was the last Disney bus crash and how many adults and children were killed on it. My guess is you won't be able to come up with one.

Summary: About 4:05 a.m. on June 20, 1998, a 1997 Motor Coach Industries 47-passenger motorcoach, operated by Greyhound Lines, Inc., was on a scheduled trip from New York City to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

Not a Disney bus.

Executive Summary: At 10:50 a.m. on October 13, 2003, a 1992 Neoplan USA Corporation 49-passenger motorcoach, owned and operated by the First Baptist Church of Eldorado, Texas

Still not a Disney bus.

Coaches are not protected from accidents. The DME is not protected from accidents. All passenger vans are violating the laws, even Florida law, because they are required to have seat belts for passengers and shuttles vans do not.

Disney's Magical Express does not operate vans, therefore the so-called argument is invalid. Take it up with the companies that DO run shuttles/vans.

One small tidbit to this whole article. CleveRocks is the Shawn Hannitty of the Disboards. You can take this comment whatever way you want.

 

[Lewisc]

One small tidbit to this whole article. CleveRocks is the Shawn Hannitty of the Disboards. You can take this comment whatever way you want.

That's not the correct spelling of the conservative radio personality so I take your comment to mean you're a complete idiot who doesn't have the slightest idea what you're saying.


I asked you if limo drivers are insisting their customers rent cars at WDW to avoid "unsafe" bus transportation to theme parks. I haven't seen a reply.

I sometimes wonder if seat belts belong in buses, including school buses, but that has nothing to do with your point regarding DME

I never noticed but how many towncar drivers would you say allow infants and toddlers to ride without approved car seats?

How many towncar drivers insist all passengers "buckle up" ?

 

[CleveRocks]

One small tidbit to this whole article. CleveRocks is the Shawn Hannitty of the Disboards. You can take this comment whatever way you want.

To riff on lewisc's comment about Edd's spelling, I guess this makes Edd the Dann Quail of the DISboards.

I'm not sure how to take the Hannity comment. I know nothing about him except that he's an arch-conservative. OUCH. Okay, Edd, you finally got me, that one did sting a little bit .... I guess the important part is, I couldn't care less. You know, I say that phrase a lot, but geez, it feels good to say it and REALLY mean it for a change!

 

[Edd]

Cleve,

With your 1550 posts in a year and 3 months, that is averaging at least 3 a day, you must be a Disney advocate. Actually I am too, not an anti-Disney person. I have been in the parks over 400 times, starting with my 3 year old son, since the 3rd day they opened in 1971. I was in the parks 3 times last year, with my grandson, and will be cruising next year on the Disney cruise lines with my grandson. So you might understand my concern for safety. So you are not talking to a Disney hater, just an advocate against Disney Corporate trying to control the local community scene. Big corporations tend to get overbearing at times.

 

[CleveRocks]

Cleve,

With your 1550 posts in a year and 3 months, that is averaging at least 3 a day, you must be a Disney advocate. Actually I am too, not an anti-Disney person. I have been in the parks over 400 times, starting with my 3 year old son, since the 3rd day they opened in 1971. I was in the parks 3 times last year, with my grandson, and will be cruising next year on the Disney cruise lines with my grandson. So you might understand my concern for safety. So you are not talking to a Disney hater, just an advocate against Disney Corporate trying to control the local community scene. Big corporations tend to get overbearing at times.

I say this with no sarcasm at all ...

Edd, THANK YOU for making a post that was civil and personal.

As for me being a Disney advocate? Maybe, I don't know. I'm a big fan of going to the theme parks, of helping my kids and my wife and me enjoy our time there, and sharing that enthusiasm (as well as any knowledge gained) with others via the Internet. I really know nothing about Disney as a company. But I know that even though I'm a liberal, I'm all for capitalism, I'm all for corporations as well as mom-and-pop operations making an honest profit for honest work. I mean, I despise the fact that Wal-Mart puts mom-and-pop stores out of business or severely cuts into their livelihoods, but on the other hand, the market decides who lives and who dies. As much as I despise the IDEA of Wal-Mart choking off the independent retailers, when there was a hurricane possibly bearing down on the Jersey Shore and I wanted a Shop-Vac to help me with any potential clean-up, I bought it at Wal-Mart because I didn't want to pay $20 more for the exact same product at the local hardware store. That $20 is one day of groceries for my family. Do I give it to my neighbor the hardware store owner with a sense of charity, or do I keep that money to feed my own family?

Okay, I do believe you're a big believer in safety. Me too. Every day I earn a living treating very unfortunate people who sustained devastating, life-shattering injuries, mostly in motor vehicle accidents. I'd much rather there was no need for me in this job. Believe me, I see the human cost every day, and it's both heart-breaking and ugly.

So here's an honest question I'd love to hear the answer to, man to man, father to father. It's lewisc's question. Do you recommend that WDW resort guests rent cars so that they can have safe conveyance between their WDW resorts and the theme parks? Since Disney Transport is as unsafe as DME, in your estimation, then wouldn't the best thing be for all of us to rent cars at MCO? I say at MCO and not at WDW for the sake of convenience as well as cost -- why pay for a limo/town car ride if you're already going to be paying for a rental car a few minutes later, know what I mean? Seriously ... I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not challenging you, I'm just asking you this honest question to understand where you're really coming from.

It's a respectful question. Please honor me with a respectful answer. Thank you, Edd.

 

[grimley1968]

Most bus systems, including WDW's and most school systems, do not have safety belts. The reason: your safety.

In the 1980's the worst school bus accident in US history occurred in my state of Kentucky, near Carrolton. A drunk driver, in a pickup truck, hit a school bus carrying an athletic team back home. The impact occurred near the fuel line and it caught fire. Many students died, and many others were badly burned. However, as bad as this was, it would have been even worse, had they been wearing seatbelts. At least the ones who were not burned to death immediately were able to fairly quickly exit through the door. If they'd been wearing seatbelts, there would not have been time for them to unbuckle them and get out. This crash is a big reason why buses are built to withstand crashes, rather than confine passengers. This crash also made us far more aware of the value of a working rear door in buses. I think in the Carrolton crash that the rear door may have been blocked or something.

If we're going to talk about BUS safety, let's do it. But don't throw in all these stories about people dying in car crashes because they weren't wearing seatbelts. Believe me, I personally know several people who have died this way. But this thread is NOT about cars, it's about buses.

Given the above example, and the fact that buses are engineered to survive big-time crashes more than cars ever could be, I prefer belts not to be used on buses. They can be more a danger than a life-saving device on a bus.

 

[Edd]

Cleve,
Here is the deal. The DME at the present time is the most economical way to get to Disney. Currently people think it is free. I personally differ with that because I feel the price is thrown in the package. Nevertheless most people think it is free. You don't even have to sign up to get on the DME. If you didn't sign up just go down to the Welcome center and they take care of you. The ride is bus transportation. It takes a little while for the Disney people to get you ready and than depending on the load there are the stops at the different hotels. So it is not the fastest way out there.
The rental cars go through the same process. There and again it is time spent finding the car and dropping it back off. If you stay on the Disney property 90% of the time the car sits in a parking lot the time you are there. Why pay $8.00 to park the car in a theme park lot when bus transportation is good at Disney.
Demand transportation (taxi) is the fast transportation and when it comes to families, cheapest way out to the Disney resorts. It is a $100 to $120 roundtrip ticket in the taxis. Of course you have to sign up with the driver if you want him to return you, otherwise all Disney hotels have taxis on the stands. They are on meters so passengers should tell the driver to use the meter before they depart the airport, some drivers try to flat rate a passenger and if so the passenger should point it out to the taxi starter. There are taxi vans that are available to carry up to 9 passengers for the same meter price as one. They can be requested by the passenger. I don't positively know what you pay for a rental car per week, but I assume it is something like $250 to $350. So you do save on the taxi price. By the way if you are assigned a taxi in disrepair or not up to your specifications you can step out and request a better taxi. There are companies who keep absolutely nice taxis at the airport.
The third way is to set up transportation through the internet (prepaid), Actually some companies do not require you to prepay, just collect when you reach your destination. Prices may be cheaper than taxis because those drivers don't pay the astronomical rates for their vehicles the taxi drivers have to pay for theirs. There are town cars, SUV's and vans involved. Many of these drivers go out of their way to take care of you. You are met at baggage claim, helped with your luggage and loaded into absolutely clean vehicles. You leave the airport immediately after you get your luggage. Some companies offer intermediate stops at grocery stores, liquor stores or whatever else comes to mind. The dress is even different. Generally these drivers offer roundtrip fares so you can schedue to be picked up when you are ready to head back to the airport. These are usually the best vehicles on the line as individual drivers keep them up.
Advertising on the web is funny. Many companies think they have to advertise as big fleets and offer all kinds of transportation when in reality they are one or two vehicle operations. These you may have to watch out for as the vehicles may not be what is pictured on the web site. There is a few sites that offer the drivers pictures for the passengers to view and the passenger can either call that driver or request that driver.
In the case of the demand and prepaid vehicles the passenger sets his time to leave the resort and the driver is right there to pick him up. The passenger is also dropped off about 30 feet from the ticket counters on the third floor. No messing around with turning vehicles in, and waiting for a bus to return you to the airport, Get out of the vehicle and present your ticket to the outside check-in stands and you are on your way.
Not everyone will take the DME because it cannot offer the advantages other transportation companies can. If you traveled on Mears Shuttles, the DME vehicles are Mears Transportation vehicles and drivers, under contract to Disney.
I advocate against Disney Corporate at times because the Disney Magic and money seems to envelope community leaders a little to much at times. I do enjoy the parks and the cruising. Disney is tops.

 

[grimley1968]

Cleve,
Here is the deal. The DME at the present time is the most economical way to get to Disney. Currently people think it is free. I personally differ with that because I feel the price is thrown in the package. Nevertheless most people think it is free. You don't even have to sign up to get on the DME. If you didn't sign up just go down to the Welcome center and they take care of you. The ride is bus transportation. It takes a little while for the Disney people to get you ready and than depending on the load there are the stops at the different hotels. So it is not the fastest way out there.
The rental cars go through the same process. There and again it is time spent finding the car and dropping it back off. If you stay on the Disney property 90% of the time the car sits in a parking lot the time you are there. Why pay $8.00 to park the car in a theme park lot when bus transportation is good at Disney.
Demand transportation (taxi) is the fast transportation and when it comes to families, cheapest way out to the Disney resorts. It is a $100 to $120 roundtrip ticket in the taxis. Of course you have to sign up with the driver if you want him to return you, otherwise all Disney hotels have taxis on the stands. They are on meters so passengers should tell the driver to use the meter before they depart the airport, some drivers try to flat rate a passenger and if so the passenger should point it out to the taxi starter. There are taxi vans that are available to carry up to 9 passengers for the same meter price as one. They can be requested by the passenger. I don't positively know what you pay for a rental car per week, but I assume it is something like $250 to $350. So you do save on the taxi price. By the way if you are assigned a taxi in disrepair or not up to your specifications you can step out and request a better taxi. There are companies who keep absolutely nice taxis at the airport.
The third way is to set up transportation through the internet (prepaid), Actually some companies do not require you to prepay, just collect when you reach your destination. Prices may be cheaper than taxis because those drivers don't pay the astronomical rates for their vehicles the taxi drivers have to pay for theirs. There are town cars, SUV's and vans involved. Many of these drivers go out of their way to take care of you. You are met at baggage claim, helped with your luggage and loaded into absolutely clean vehicles. You leave the airport immediately after you get your luggage. Some companies offer intermediate stops at grocery stores, liquor stores or whatever else comes to mind. The dress is even different. Generally these drivers offer roundtrip fares so you can schedue to be picked up when you are ready to head back to the airport. These are usually the best vehicles on the line as individual drivers keep them up.
Advertising on the web is funny. Many companies think they have to advertise as big fleets and offer all kinds of transportation when in reality they are one or two vehicle operations. These you may have to watch out for as the vehicles may not be what is pictured on the web site. There is a few sites that offer the drivers pictures for the passengers to view and the passenger can either call that driver or request that driver.
In the case of the demand and prepaid vehicles the passenger sets his time to leave the resort and the driver is right there to pick him up. The passenger is also dropped off about 30 feet from the ticket counters on the third floor. No messing around with turning vehicles in, and waiting for a bus to return you to the airport, Get out of the vehicle and present your ticket to the outside check-in stands and you are on your way.
Not everyone will take the DME because it cannot offer the advantages other transportation companies can. If you traveled on Mears Shuttles, the DME vehicles are Mears Transportation vehicles and drivers, under contract to Disney.
I advocate against Disney Corporate at times because the Disney Magic and money seems to envelope community leaders a little to much at times. I do enjoy the parks and the cruising. Disney is tops.

Uh, thanks for the summary of transportation options. A) I think just about anyone who has read the DIS for more than a month realizes these options. B) Just what in the world does this summary of transportation options have to do with the safety of buses and shuttles? I thought safety was the reason for this thread. Apparently, it is not the true focus of this thread. So, just what is the agenda here?

 

[CarolA]

I have Edd on ignore.

However, since the above poster quoted him perhaps someone could point out to him that you do HAVE to reserve ME in advance. Otherwise it's not free, you have to buy a ticket from Mears.... his "buddies" the "safe" limo drivers saw to that. The above quoted post pretty much wiped out ALL thoughts I might have had that he is not a shill for a limo company. As such he should be banned... (Best cars?? Yeah that would explain the reports of dirty cars. Drivers that go out of thier way??? Late and rude is out of thier way???? And pickup for return?? If they don't forget!)

 

[grimley1968]

I have Edd on ignore.

However, since the above poster quoted him perhaps someone could point out to him that you do HAVE to reserve ME in advance. Otherwise it's not free, you have to buy a ticket from Mears.... his "buddies" the "safe" limo drivers saw to that. The above quoted post pretty much wiped out ALL thoughts I might have had that he is not a shill for a limo company. As such he should be banned... (Best cars?? Yeah that would explain the reports of dirty cars. Drivers that go out of thier way??? Late and rude is out of thier way???? And pickup for return?? If they don't forget!)

There ya go. Now, just in case Edd had you on "ignore", he can read your information right here via my post. Consider me the "good offices" of the DISboards.

Yes, those limo drivers are much, much safer than those WDW bus drivers. It would be interesting to see (without occupants in them and via remote control operation) the results of a collision between a limo van/car and a DME/WDW bus, travelling at a differential speed of about 40 MPH. I'm betting the bus comes out of it much better for wear than the van/car.

 

[CarolA]

There ya go. Now, just in case Edd had you on "ignore", he can read your information right here via my post. Consider me the "good offices" of the DISboards.

.

I appreciate the help

As I read about "safe" limos I always remember reading those stories about the high school kids a few years ago who got a limo to the prom and the driver was DRUNK!!!

I don't know about Orlando, but in MOST places there are NO special tests etc to drive a "town car" . So the assumption of saftey is limited. You have no way of knowing the driver qualification and or the vehicle maintenance. I have to figure that as BIG companies with DEEP pockets Mears and Disney are going to keep those brakes in good condition for example...

 

[Shannon G]

Cleve,
The rental cars go through the same process. There and again it is time spent finding the car and dropping it back off. If you stay on the Disney property 90% of the time the car sits in a parking lot the time you are there. Why pay $8.00 to park the car in a theme park lot when bus transportation is good at Disney.

But hasn't this whole thread been about you telling us how dangerous busses are because there are no seatbelts? But now we should take a limo service instead of renting a car because the bus transportation at Disney is so good? So, apparently, taking a bus from MCO to WDW is VERY DANGEROUS, due to the lack of seatbelts, but once you are actually ON Disney property the buses become magically much safer? Must be something to do with all the pixie dust floating around...

Not to mention that if you're staying on Disney property, it won't cost you $8/day to park...

 

[grimley1968]

But hasn't this whole thread been about you telling us how dangerous busses are because there are no seatbelts? But now we should take a limo service instead of renting a car because the bus transportation at Disney is so good? So, apparently, taking a bus from MCO to WDW is VERY DANGEROUS, due to the lack of seatbelts, but once you are actually ON Disney property the buses become magically much safer? Must be something to do with all the pixie dust floating around...

Well, pixie dust allows Peter Pan and friends to fly around, defying multiple laws of physics. I guess the law of physics that dictates that WDW buses will come out of crashes better than any other vehicle but an 18-wheeler is magically heightened on-property with the pixie dust. I guess the buses float to their destinations while within WDW property, but are prisoners to the laws of physics elsewhere, and oh so dangerous compared to limo SUVs. As we all know, SUVs are not prone to rollover accidents. Buses are.

Thanks, Tinkerbelle.

{Boy, my eyes are killing me from all the rolling they're doing following the logic of this thread. They're permanently stuck near the upper eyelids now. }

 

[CarolA]

But hasn't this whole thread been about you telling us how dangerous busses are because there are no seatbelts? But now we should take a limo service instead of renting a car because the bus transportation at Disney is so good? So, apparently, taking a bus from MCO to WDW is VERY DANGEROUS, due to the lack of seatbelts, but once you are actually ON Disney property the buses become magically much safer? Must be something to do with all the pixie dust floating around...

Not to mention that if you're staying on Disney property, it won't cost you $8/day to park...

Maybe I should take Edd off ignore. Statements like this are just too funny... Edd thinks it's OK to drive on a bus INSIDE Disney??

SHILL ALERT... (If you get a limo driver named Edd RUN!!!!)

 

[grimley1968]

SHILL ALERT... (If you get a limo driver named Edd RUN!!!!)

It's funny how this little agenda of his has been swatted away on the DISboards like a weak move by a 6'2" guard to the basket would be swatted away by a 7' center.

Good catch, folks! Logically and ethically, I salute you.

Just to sum up, reasons why EDD is wrong-o:

- Disney uses no vans or SUVs that I know of with DME or onsite. Only buses. Buses do not need seatbelts, and seatbelts, as I pointed out above with the Carrolton crash, can be a hindrance rather than a help in any kind of situation, like fires, where buses are truly as vulnerable as smaller vehicles.

- Limo companies may well use vehicles that have seatbelts installed, but that is because SUVs and cars are so much more inherently dangerous to their occupants, in their design, than buses are. SUVs are vehicles that are more prone to rolling over than any other kind of vehicle. You'd darn well better have seatbelts fastened in a situation like that.

- Logically, Edd has gone off the safety reservation big time. He talks about prices, etc. when ME is free. You read right: free. No two ways about it. There was no corresponding increase in resort rates when ME was introduced. Whether Disney is making less profit with their resort ressies or not, it is still free to guests. Maybe they charged more than necessary for years prior to ME beginning, to build up a fund to start ME. I don't know. The point is, guests paid no more for a resort ressie after ME started than before. Maybe they will charge someday, but that's not relevant to this thread. For now, it's a free ride.

 

[tribus121]

While I dont have the stats right in front of me . I have read several studies stating that " Buses " have the lowest Fatality rate per person mile traveled .If eather of the accdents that where Quoted had happend in any other type of vehichle " All " Occupants probably would have been kiled seatbelts or not . I am a bus driver ( but have also drove both taxi and Limo )for a small bus company in Canada . And will be using ME and and disney transportation feeling very safe .

I any one would like me to find stats I will