Bus and shuttles to Disney do not have seatbelts

[freckles and boo]

I understand why you may reject the messenger, especially if there is a history of unpleasantness. The point about vehicle passenger safety, however, is a valid one and shouldn't be rejected out of hand. My father was a first responder for years and as kids we heard a lot of sad and gory crash details.

That said, tens of millions of people use public transportation safely on a daily basis. Most trains, school buses, interstate buses, trolleys, etc. provide no restraints - perhaps they should but even if they did many people wouldn't use them. We always buckle up in a car and a cab, but do people really do it in a limo? (I honestly don't know ) I get more riled by the people who are willing to hold infants on their laps while zipping through the air at 500mph...

I will be using the Magical Express and the Disney Transportation buses because statistically they are safe, they are complimentary (goodness knows you get charged for everything else) and they are convenient. If there was evidence that the drivers were reckless or the buses were unsafe I would definitely reconsider my decision.

 

[Edd]

All towncars have seat belts installed. If the guest is silly enough not to use the seat belt that is his problem. The fact remains there is a seat belt for the guests asking or if not another town car that will provide the seat belt. Rentals also have seat belts. Again it is the passengers perogative whether to use or not. SEATBELTS SAVE LIVES DAILY.

 

[Dan Murphy]

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I even suggested to them that instead of complaining about DME they should market their strengths, which are personalized service and direct, private transportation that can be tailored to that exact customer's needs rather than to the masses. I was then told by this poster and others than I must dine on steak and caviar every night, which I guess is a way of slamming wealthy people. The irony is, since DME is free, the towncar and limo companies should be marketing themselves TO the more well-to-do crowd, a crowd that at least some posters on that board seemed to despise. Not good for business!

Exactly!

There are plenty of WDW guests who stay in $400-per-night rooms, spend hundreds each evening on fancy dinners with fine wines, and are willing to pay for an end-to-end deluxe experience with a high degree of personal service. The towncar and limo companies need to market to such guests, and to provide service at a level that such guests expect — impeccably clean vehicles, highly professional drivers, and absolute reliability. $120 or even $200 is a drop in the bucket for such guests.

Yes, that's a smaller market than the former price-sensitive — "a towncar is a cheap alternative to a rental car, taxi, or Mears" — market. But there's no way that the towncar companies can win on price against Disney's Magical Express. The Orlando-area towncar and limo industry is different than it was a year ago. Drivers have had to find new jobs; owners have had to reduce their livery fleets; and I would think there are now fewer companies.

Unfortunately, there have been posts on this board and other boards that try to make DME sound dangerous, unreliable, overcrowded, and "horrible" — clearly posted by individuals who think they'll benefit economically if they defame DME. Such posts reflect badly on the whole Orlando-area towncar and limo industry (which is unfair to the companies that do not engage in deception to win business).

There have also been legitimate, credible complaints about DME on this board, but these have been greatly outnumbered by very positive reviews of DME.

 

[CleveRocks]

Edd is right about seat belts. He's correct. But here's where he's being deceitful -- everything he cited and quoted about seatbelt use, the dangers of not wearing seatbelts, has to do with cars, SUVs, vans, etc. He has cited NOTHING, NADA, about the supposed lack of safety of lack of seatbelts ON BUSES. He made no mention about whether lack of seatbelts on large buses is unsafe.

Such a pattern of posting denotes one of two things:
1) a lack of adequate reasoning skills
2) a lack of respect for the readers' intelligence

Either he does not understand that there is an inherent difference in how a small vehicle and its contents are acted upon in a collision, or he knows there's a difference but believes we won't notice.

Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, and I'll believe you. EVERYONE knows how dangerous cars/vans/SUVs are without seatbelts. Most of the people I treat were injured in serious motor vehicle accidents. None of them were wearing seatbelts. I've never worked with someone with a serious brain injury who WAS wearing a seatbelt. Seatbelts save lives. In smaller vehicles. Let's see some data on how dangerous it is for BUSES to not have seatbelts. I've never worked with someone injured in any type of bus accident. I'm not exaggerating and saying anything like it's impossible to be injured in a bus accident. What I am saying is that buses are so large and so high that the physical forces upon the vehicle itself and upon the contents of the cabin are not as severe in an accident as they would be in a smaller, lower vehicle. All this being said, I would not sit in the front seat of a bus, with no barrier between me and the windshield; for the same reason, I'm glad the driver has a seatbelt. In a terribly catastrophic accident such as an explosion or a multiple rollover (brought about by, say, driving off a large embankment), the only thing that may protect anyone in any type of vehicle is prayer.

Edd, if private transportation companies serving MCO are to succeed, they will succeed because they will tout their own service and value, they will tout what makes them great. They will not succeed with smear campaigns, fear campaigns, and false accusations.

I had to have some work done on my house a few years ago. I got estimates from two contractors, one well-known in the area and one fairly new. The first contractor, the well-known one, didn't tell me how great his work was, but instead spent his time in my house telling me this guy's a crook, that guy's a crook, the other guy's incompetent, some other guy isn't qualified to build a dog house, and so on. The second contractor told me he's run his own business for the past 5 years, ever since he left the employment of the first guy. I asked what he thought of the first guy, and he smiled briefly and then looked uncomfortable and eventually told me he didn't want to say anything bad about the other guy, and that the other guy's company did fine work, but that his own newer company also does good work, and then began to tell me how good his own work was. I went with the second guy.

Why did I go with the second guy? Because he seemed genuine. The first guy turned me off because all he was was negative -- he had nothing good to say about himself, but only told me how terrible the other guys were. Oh, here's a little footnote. What happened to the first guy? He was later indicted for fraud and theft by deception, and pleaded guilty a few months ago. Seems he saw in others what he actually saw within himself.

 

[Bo'sMom]

I may be a troll, but I remember the seat belt (black and blue) marks across my body when I was pushed off the right side of the road, traveling 55 miles per hour on Highway 4 in Winter Park, by a truck and than swerved across the road head-on into a concrete barrier in 1995. The vehicle was totaled. I walked away unhurt. Yes, I wore a seat belt, lap and shoulder.
I questioned a driver of a Disney bus on Friday and this was his answer. "In the event of a crash the people in the front seat will go through the front window. I tell all the mothers to hold onto the children in case of a crash." By the way, the driver wears a seatbelt. Of the possible 50% kids aboard each bus, how many would be killed in a head-on or a tip over. It would be tragic to have 10 children die when a death could have been prevented by a seat belt. This is a known fact.
Seat belts are not required on commercial busses because lobbiests for that industry have defeated any efforts to ammend the regulations to put seat belts on their vehicles. Their excuse was it was to costly to install seat belts aboard their vehicles, not that the busses and vans were any safer.
So I am a troll trying to point out the fact the busses do not run without accidents. Already there have been numerous accidents and a few cases of fire gutting those busses. It is just not printed. Six years ago no one ever thought planes would destroy skyscrapers, but it happened. When the first bus or van turns over and kills 5 - 10 kids plus adults, I will bet the next day the busses are equipped with seat belts.
This is not a case of anti-Disney. I enjoy the parks and will be cruising on the ships. This is a case of common sense. Seat belts are lifesavers and I will bet 2000 to 4000 kids ride those busses each day. Is Disney telling you seat belts don't save lives. I am sorry, for you, if that is a fact. Is this not another Katrina waiting to happen.

Instead of barraging us with "possibilities", why not give us some real facts. Tell us when was the last Disney bus crash and how many adults and children were killed on it. My guess is you won't be able to come up with one. <snicker>

 

[Edd]

Executive Summary: On February 14, 2003, about 9:59 a.m., central standard time, a 1996 Dina Viaggio motorcoach, operated by Central Texas Trails, Inc., and occupied by a driver and 34 passengers, was traveling northbound on Interstate 35 near Hewitt, Texas. The weather was overcast with reduced visibility due to fog, haze, and heavy rain. As the motorcoach approached the crest of a hill, the bus driver said he observed brake lights ahead of him and began to brake lightly. The bus driver said that as he moved from the right lane into the left lane, another vehicle ahead of the bus also moved over, so he braked harder and the rear of the bus skidded. The bus driver was unable to maintain control of the bus as it departed the left side of the roadway, crossed the grassy median, entered the southbound lanes, and collided with a 2002 Chevrolet Suburban sport utility vehicle (Suburban) occupied by a driver and two passengers. The right mirror of a southbound 1996 Chevrolet C1500 Z71 pickup truck, occupied by a driver, was also struck by the motorcoach. The motorcoach then overturned on its right side, rotated, and slid to final rest facing south against a concrete embankment on the side of the road. The Suburban rotated 180 degrees, began to climb the embankment, slid back down, and came to rest facing north and against the roof of the bus.

Five motorcoach passengers, the Suburban driver, and one Suburban passenger sustained fatal injuries. The bus driver sustained serious injuries; the remaining passengers on the bus and in the Suburban sustained injuries ranging from minor to serious. The pickup truck driver was not injured.

 

[Edd]

Summary: About 4:05 a.m. on June 20, 1998, a 1997 Motor Coach Industries 47-passenger motorcoach, operated by Greyhound Lines, Inc., was on a scheduled trip from New York City to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, traveling westbound on the Pennsylvania Turnpike near Burnt Cabins, Huntingdon County, Pennsylvania. As the bus approached milepost (MP) 184.9, it traveled off the right side of the roadway into an “emergency parking area,”1 where it struck the back of a parked tractor-semitrailer, which was pushed forward and struck the left side of another parked tractor-semitrailer. Of the 23 people on board the bus, the driver and 6 passengers were killed; the other 16 passengers were injured. The two occupants of the first tractor-semitrailer were injured, and the occupant of the second tractor-semitrailer was uninjured.

 

[Edd]

Executive Summary: At 10:50 a.m. on October 13, 2003, a 1992 Neoplan USA Corporation 49-passenger motorcoach, owned and operated by the First Baptist Church of Eldorado, Texas, was traveling eastbound on Interstate 20 near Tallulah, Louisiana. The motorcoach, carrying 14 passengers, was en route from Shreveport, Louisiana, to Tuscaloosa, Alabama, as part of a multicity sightseeing tour that had originated in Eldorado. As the motorcoach approached milepost 168, it drifted rightward from the travel lanes and onto the shoulder, where it struck the rear of a 1988 Peterbilt tractor semitrailer operated by Alpha Trucking, Inc., which was stopped on the shoulder at milepost 167.9. As both vehicles moved forward, the motorcoach rotated clockwise slightly and the semitrailer rotated counter-clockwise slightly; the vehicles remained together. They traveled approximately 62 feet and came to rest, still oriented to the east, adjacent to the right side of the interstate on the outside shoulder. Eight motorcoach passengers sustained fatal injuries, the motorcoach driver and six passengers received serious injuries, and the Peterbilt driver was not injured.

 

[pugdog]

I just wanted to get on here to watch EDD stick his other foot in his mouth with unrelated and misinformed info. Your comparing apples to monkeys. Not even in the same fruit family here EDD.

 

[Edd]

Coaches are not protected from accidents. The DME is not protected from accidents. All passenger vans are violating the laws, even Florida law, because they are required to have seat belts for passengers and shuttles vans do not. It is our job to protect all people to the best we can. Have you ever noticed that airline passengers are in seat belts until after takeoff and before landing. In other words while they are moving on the ground. Are we giving busses the chance to skirt an obvious "error" in the protection of their passengers.

 

[Lewisc]

It's certainly possible passengers would be safer if buses have seat belts.

Some questions:

Do limo drivers suggest guests rent a car after they get to WDW to avoid the dangers of Disney buses?

Every DME bus I've been on observes the speed limit and drives in a safe matter. You can't say the same for many of the limo drivers.

Most of us think your only motivation is to promote limo as an alternative to DME. How involved are you with trying to change the law requiring seat belts in all buses including school buses? What are you doing to communicate the danger of Disney bus transportation to limo passengers?

Sorry but we all see through your BS.

 

[pugdog]

Ok EDD NOBODY is protected from accidents. They can and do happen to anyone at any time. If your going to try to compare what might happen to DME and WDW buses then you need to find stories that actually are simular to what might happen to them. Not a bus traveling to fast in heavy fog. It's the apple and monkey again.
And last time I road a Mears shuttle van they DID have seatbelts. So getr your info correct before you start bashing the other companies.

 

[pepperw23]

I may be a troll, but I remember the seat belt (black and blue) marks across my body when I was pushed off the right side of the road, traveling 55 miles per hour on Highway 4 in Winter Park, by a truck and than swerved across the road head-on into a concrete barrier in 1995. The vehicle was totaled. I walked away unhurt. Yes, I wore a seat belt, lap and shoulder.
I questioned a driver of a Disney bus on Friday and this was his answer. "In the event of a crash the people in the front seat will go through the front window. I tell all the mothers to hold onto the children in case of a crash." By the way, the driver wears a seatbelt. Of the possible 50% kids aboard each bus, how many would be killed in a head-on or a tip over. It would be tragic to have 10 children die when a death could have been prevented by a seat belt. This is a known fact.
Seat belts are not required on commercial busses because lobbiests for that industry have defeated any efforts to ammend the regulations to put seat belts on their vehicles. Their excuse was it was to costly to install seat belts aboard their vehicles, not that the busses and vans were any safer.
So I am a troll trying to point out the fact the busses do not run without accidents. Already there have been numerous accidents and a few cases of fire gutting those busses. It is just not printed. Six years ago no one ever thought planes would destroy skyscrapers, but it happened. When the first bus or van turns over and kills 5 - 10 kids plus adults, I will bet the next day the busses are equipped with seat belts.
This is not a case of anti-Disney. I enjoy the parks and will be cruising on the ships. This is a case of common sense. Seat belts are lifesavers and I will bet 2000 to 4000 kids ride those busses each day. Is Disney telling you seat belts don't save lives. I am sorry, for you, if that is a fact. Is this not another Katrina waiting to happen.

Okay, I don't normally respond to trolls, but I am in a bad mood today and kicking you seems like more fun than kicking my dog.

I just have one question: When was the last time a life was saved by a seatbelt during a fire on a bus? Matter of fact, it is actually more dangerous to have seatbelts on busses. With all the chaos going on after an accident, people jumping over seats, stepping on each other, smoke...can you imagine trying to not only unbuckle yourself but your child as well? By the time you do that (if they are not melted to the seat) you and the child will be up in flames.

9-11??? Katrina??? I am not even going to respond. Both events were not only tragedies for those poor families involved, but for the whole country. To use them to prove a point on a Disney World message board, by a disgruntled limo driver is just pitiful, and I will not take part in it.

If you want to get on here and talk about "facts" I suggest you research them first. Seatbelts on busses have been a debate for many years and each time it is decided/proven they are more dangerous than helpful.

Now if you will excuse us, we have a vacation at an evil empire to plan.

 

[CleveRocks]

It truly is a tragedy that 20 people lost their lives while riding in motorcoaches between 1998 - 2003. Every innocent death is a tragedy.

In that same 6 year span, about 300,000 people died on the USA's highways and streets, about 50,000 per year (check out NHTSA's website if you don't believe me). If only 20 out of those 300,000 were on motorcoaches, I'm going to save my pennies and buy a motorcoach to drive my kids around in. It's not that the bus will be so expensive, but the fuel costs will be murder.

 

[helenk]

I've ridden in buses here in PA and in NJ and NY and none of the buses have seat belts...Like the other posters I am not sure what the OP is trying to do, but why single out ME and/or the Disney buses. Do the Lynx buses have seat belts? What about the buses or shuttles that the other hotels run to the Disney parks?

 

[CleveRocks]

pepperw23, I don't recall reading any of your posts before this one, but I hope I read a lot more of them in the future. Evil Empire. I love it!

 

[freckles and boo]

I just came from the NHTSA site because I was looking for stats as well.

The safety issues identified in the two crashes cited by Edd are...

Driver fatigue,
Adequacy of State and Federal oversight of motor carriers,
Identification and appropriate use of speed-restricted tires on motorcoaches,
Criteria for State and Federal annual inspections of motorcoach passenger seating anchorage points,

and

Performance standards for motorcoach passenger seating anchorages.
Sight distance and speed as they relate to roadway design;
Roadway and tire friction interaction, particularly between commercial vehicle tires and wet pavement;
Effect on vehicle stability of differing front and rear tire tread depths; and
Need to better identify areas with a high risk of wet weather accidents and implement the necessary roadway improvements.

The focus of the NHTSA appears to also be on containing passengers within the body of the bus, since getting pitched out a window seems to be the main reason folks die in accidents involving motorcoaches.

NHTSA met in spring 2002 with the motorcoach manufacturers to discuss a cooperative research program to address the issue of bus window retention and release, including hold-open devices for breakout windows. NHTSA also met with motorcoach operators in August 2002, but no research plan was agreed upon at that meeting. In June 2004, NHTSA indicated that they are focusing their efforts on roof crush and window retention technology, with a goal of keeping occupants in the vehicle, due to the fact that the vast majority of motorcoach fatalities occur when passengers are ejected from the vehicle. NHTSA indicates that they have chosen this approach rather than seat belts on buses because increasing roof crush strength and the structural integrity of buses, as well as improving glazing retention technology for windows are all safety improvements that require no action by passengers, yet improve their safety.

I would definitely wear a seat belt on a bus if one was available, but I feel safe enough to ride without.

 

[pepperw23]

pepperw23, I don't recall reading any of your posts before this one, but I hope I read a lot more of them in the future. Evil Empire. I love it!

Ditto to your posts. Of course, mine are usually a little more positive lol.

 

[Bo'sMom]

I just wanted to get on here to watch EDD stick his other foot in his mouth with unrelated and misinformed info. Your comparing apples to monkeys. Not even in the same fruit family here EDD.

BAHAHAHHAHAH LOL! Too funny!