BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I admit I'm not that smart, and I understand how a ton of LL people make the Standby line slow, but how does shifting people from the LL to Standby reduce wait time. Isn't this just an offset?

I know Disney has stats and researchers and experts in queueing theory but I've always wondered what the goal is -- how long do they expect people paying just the entrance fee to wait? What is acceptable. Same for G+, what are the parameters that define a "successful" balance of revenue and ride availability?

The priority is given to LL. It was a high ratio with FP+ and by all accounts is even higher with Genie+. It was also a high ratio with MP over at DLR. Many theme parks give priority to the get ahead of the line (as they realistically should) but there's more out there that utilize a better ratio. Disney is notorious for using a poor ratio that predates Genie+.

I've stood in line at Disney in the SB lane when no one absolutely no one was in the LL line and they wouldn't move anyone from SB. I watched as 2 people would go through the SB line and person after person after person through LL. And when I was at DLR during MP days it was like this as well. TSMM I remember being in line and 4 or so people from standby could go and 30+ from MP line would go.

It's a bit of a two fold. There needs to be a better ratio and less people going through. If Disney refuses to let people go through the SB line when no one is in the LL line it won't do much if there's less people.

 

[Jrb1979]

I know people reference fastpass+ and how it didn't work or wasn't fair. I watched the defuntland video on fastpass+ and did find it interesting. I just can't believe they couldn't make some tweaks to improve it.

I would also argue that the guest who is planning their vacation and staying on-site should have some sort of advantage... hence why you stay on-site, plan a little (I don't think 2 months is crazy, but hey change the booking windows to 30 days), or stay longer. I would have thought those were all positives to Disney? Just like now the guest who wants to get up at 7am and pay extra should be at an advantage with genie+. I just don't feel like there is much advantage with genie+. Who wants to get up at 7am every day of vacation and participate in some sort of gambling like rat-race to hopefully get some rides at times that work with whatever else you had planned that day.

Your average guest didn't like the amount of planning. They created Genie+ to lessen the planning. Like I posted earlier, the way it was supposed to work is no matter when you opened Genie+ there should be lots of availability. That would still be the case if less people had Genie+ each day. From things I have heard the optimal number of guests using Genie+ daily should be around 10%.

I get it, nobody likes waiting in long lines for rides. My question is what do most of you do when you visit other parks? Do you spend the hundreds of dollars each time to buy the skip the line pass or you do you wait in line?
The reason I ask is why is it acceptable to wait in lines at other parks but it's not at Disney?

 

[cakebaker]

I wasn’t food stamp poor, but just a level above that. We still went to Disney in my childhood. It consisted of driving all night and only going to MK for a day and staying in a cheap motel in Kissimmee, but we did it. I’m certain we weren’t the only working class family who sacrificed to do it. It’s unobtainable by the lower class now, and soon to be for lower middle and middle class.

I'd venture to say that most people who are near not being able to feed their families on their own don't consider WDW as a possibility.

Regardless, this is supply and demand. For however many people can still afford to, it's too many. Raising prices is the only sensible thing to do. I can't begin to list all the things I cannot do because I can't afford them.

 

[nikem3]

The priority is given to LL. It was a high ratio with FP+ and by all accounts is even higher with Genie+. It was also a high ratio with MP over at DLR. Many theme parks give priority to the get ahead of the line (as they realistically should) but there's more out there that utilize a better ratio. Disney is notorious for using a poor ratio that predates Genie+.

I've stood in line at Disney in the SB lane when no one absolutely no one was in the LL line and they wouldn't move anyone from SB. I watched as 2 people would go through the SB line and person after person after person through LL. And when I was at DLR during MP days it was like this as well. TSMM I remember being in line and 4 or so people from standby could go and 30+ from MP line would go.

It's a bit of a two fold. There needs to be a better ratio and less people going through. If Disney refuses to let people go through the SB line when no one is in the LL line it won't do much if there's less people.

I'm not discounting your scenario, but that is incorrectly done by cast members. They aren't waiting for LL guests to come into line. They DO have a ratio of LL to Standby which is heavily favored for LL, but they aren't sending out empty carts or holding ride trains for no reason. If that happened, there was either a problem with the line or someone was doing something very incorrectly.

 

[HopperFan]

Of course not. There is no meaningful capacity on it. If Disney cared about guest satisfaction, they would have meaningful limits on the amount of G+ available.

There are none except where there is legal occupancy/capacity limits. The term capacity in relation to Disney only means "whatever they decided for that day and that product." It can vary day to day and likely based more on staffing than anything.

I don't think DIsney is dependent on middle class visitors. They are doing fine attracting upper income visitors who pack the parks and think nothing of spending $1,000 per night on a standard hotel room.

2/3rds of park guests are staying offsite and likely paying $250 and much less per night, probably middle class. Likely most your value and moderate resort guests are middle class visitors. I would imagine on a dollar scale many of your international visitors are middle class. Disney could never run that large of a resort without the middle class. I'm not sure they can even fill the Starcruiser with upper class guests.

I get that upper class guests spend lots of money at Disney - the ones that go - but I'd venture most upper class guests do not spend vacations at Disney World. The see the rest of the world

I just hope this lightens some of the LL lines. My son has DAS and we aren’t getting Genie + (mainly because it gives me a headache thinking about yet another thing) and the LL lines have been so long.

So you think there are volumes more people paying for LL than used FP+ for free? The lines are not longer because of LL, they are longer because Disney has chosen to not fully staff the parks like before. They are enjoying the savings to bulk up the profits and guests are paying the price for that.

PS My son had a DAS.

So, you get DAS, for free, which allows you access to even the paid lightning lane for free AND access front of the line at places like the People Mover where there isn't even a LL (or at least we did in August with the exception of Guardians), and don't NEED G+, and you're complaining about the people who ARE paying for the product?

Gotcha.

No DAS user should be getting front of the line. We had the GAC and now the DAS and have NEVER been permitted front of the line. We have been told at Peoplemover that we couldn't use a DAS there so we came back later when line was less. Sometimes there are CMs that just let things happen. My point in commenting is I don't want others to think we get Front of the Line because that brings all kinds of issues out. Front of the line is for Make a Wish kids.

I came to this discussion totally fresh this year - I hadn't been to Disney since 2004 and saw a lot of hate to Genie +. My first reaction was that they would obviously need to make it more expensive and scarcer otherwise it'll never work. This comes as no surprise and I suspect it will get more and more expensive. Genie + only works as an elite product. The further away they move from it as a mass product, satisfaction will go up. Those who can afford get a great product. Those who don't can be like 'well, fair enough to those who can afford' and their wait times will be more reasonable overall. That's how I felt at Universal.

Disney monetized the product to make money. They would have to raise the price considerably to make the money they want to make. At that point you are right only the few will be able to afford the add on. You know what that means? LINES, lots of LONG lines. You know what that means? No one is in the stores shopping (already an issue right now), no one is grabbing snacks (they can't take in the lines), no one is have 3 meals in the parks because there is no time because they are line. The whole reason they had the FP to begin with was keep folks out of lines and spending money. There is a fancy algorithm that will tell them at which point it works for them or against them, dollar wise.

I also don't understand this Genie+ needs to be more expensive to work when FP+ was FREE and worked fine.

They could have taken FP+, eliminate the 3 pre-booked ones, limit one per ride and have you just roll one all day and it would be worth paying for. It came with flexibility to manage your day while Genie+ is a clunky app that is highly rigid and inflexible.

It didn't, though.

It only worked well for those savvy enough to know they had to book rides 60 days in advance, and those staying on site with long enough stays to get good selections early on.

If you planned a trip with short notice or didn't do a ton of research, you showed up to the park with no good fast passes booked and had a miserable time in standby lines that were much higher than they would have been without fast pass existing.

The system heavily favored those in the know and those booking long on site stays over everyone else. It wasn't fair to the majority and it was not free of all elements of "pay to play".

If you don't believe this, I highly recommend watching Defunctland's fast pass video on YouTube. He ran several computer simulations proving exactly how broken the system truly was. The history he goes through is also fascinating.

Genie+ is far from perfect but it not being free isn't its problem. Keep in mind - the ride capacity isn't there for it to work well when 50% of people use it. If it was free, 100% of people would use it. It would be much worse.

The system worked. If it didn't work that was 100% the guest's fault. Why is Disney to blame if guests didn't want to book advance (I often didn't) or want to check and spin the dial during the day. Genie+ you get none in advance and spinning the dial brings you less offers for inflexible times so you have to constantly have your nose in the phone. FP+ was a smooth system that we rolled all day long with little effort. You could pick times that worked with your ADRs and plans for the day. Now you have to plan around Genie+.

If you are going to book an expensive luxury vacation and don't do a little reading and planning on how to tour the parks, that is not FP+ problem, that is a guest problem.

Is it true that they have never limited sales for G+? There were rumors that they might be sold out occasionally. Express Pass at Universal is capped, I think.

They were trying to create demand. That would have been a driving force in buying in advance. But maybe it's to get you buying before you get in park and maybe find out lines aren't bad or the system isn't giving you good times. My son bought it at 7 am a couple weeks ago, got to the park and found out he didn't even need it. Low crowds meant he could get some good ones and have a great day across three parks.

They should just let you prepay for Genie+ based on a WDW resort reservation. Do it like they used to do dining plan. That way they would know how many folks are paying for the plan on any given day and can adjust pricing based on that usage.

Disney relies primarily on off site hotel guest to fill their parks. Eliminating them from buying in advance may dissuade them from buying at all. Just like Disney letting pirates buy dozens of specialty items to resell without stopping it - THEY DON'T CARE, THEY JUST WANT THE MONEY.

And if they let you do it in advance they just lost all that MONEY they will get with dynamic pricing. Why would they do that, I wouldn't. Who knows what the future brings but if I were Disney I wouldn't offer advance set prices.

It didn't work fine though. It just changed the dynamic and people complained about it as well all the time. You'd wake up at midnight 30-60 days ahead of your vacation and be scrambling to grab a fast pass to ONE of the good rides. People complained about it, so then Disney changed to a system where they had tiered rides. And then people complained about THAT. So they moved to Genie+, and now people complain about this, so they will adjust the system or raise the prices.

Again the system itself worked well. If it didn't work for someone that was their problem, not the systems. It was free, take it or leave it. If you wanted 3 in advance, book them. Honestly the ONLY attraction we never got was 7DMT. We could get everything else by spinning the dial day of. Eating a snack, spin the dial - waiting in a line, spin the dial.

 

[ajollyholidaywithjo]

Your average guest didn't like the amount of planning. They created Genie+ to lessen the planning. Like I posted earlier, the way it was supposed to work is no matter when you opened Genie+ there should be lots of availability. That would still be the case if less people had Genie+ each day. From things I have heard the optimal number of guests using Genie+ daily should be around 10%.

I get it, nobody likes waiting in long lines for rides. My question is what do most of you do when you visit other parks? Do you spend the hundreds of dollars each time to buy the skip the line pass or you do you wait in line?
The reason I ask is why is it acceptable to wait in lines at other parks but it's not at Disney?

I think we should address the other point this commenter made; where are the additional benefits for on-site guests? The hotel costs continue to go up and the perks go down. All you get is 30 minutes extra time, compared to when it used to be one or two hours. But oh, you can get an hour, but only if you’re Deluxe. Yeah, there’s transportation, but that’s it. Why not allow on site guest to book Genie in advance? I think that would be a good incentive for people to stay on-site. Same thing with dining. I used to love staying on-site because of the benefit of being able to book earlier. They talk about wanting to make money, those two things are incentive enough for people to spend money for their resorts.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'm not discounting your scenario, but that is incorrectly done by cast members. They aren't waiting for LL guests to come into line. They DO have a ratio of LL to Standby which is heavily favored for LL, but they aren't sending out empty carts or holding ride trains for no reason. If that happened, there was either a problem with the line or someone was doing something very incorrectly.

My sister used to work at the merge point for Big Thunder at MK and she had to do this often so that the two lines could clear out to make room for more people to go through. She also said the ratio she had to do often was 10 LL to 1 standby but this was back when Fastpass+ was around and not current Genie+.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not discounting your scenario, but that is incorrectly done by cast members. They aren't waiting for LL guests to come into line. They DO have a ratio of LL to Standby which is heavily favored for LL, but they aren't sending out empty carts or holding ride trains for no reason. If that happened, there was either a problem with the line or someone was doing something very incorrectly.

I never said nor insinuated they are sending empty carts, ride vehicles, etc. So with all due respect I think you've misunderstood what I was describing.

I said they won't let those from the SB go and halt them when no one is in the LL and they favor that line typically way heavy.

Let's say you have no one in line in the LL but you have people in the standby line. If you don't let anyone from the SB line go then they cannot move on through the queue after the merge point. So let's say it's been a few minutes, and now you've got people in the LL coming through so instead of the queue after the merge point being filled with some SB people they are now filled with more LL people. And the cycle continues. Some rides don't have much of a queue after the merge point but enough do.

As far as incorrect I have no doubt some CMs aren't always the best at it but it was a consistent experience across 7 park days in May 2022 in all 4 parks. It was a consistent enough experience two separate trips in 2019 at DLR (a main reason we broke down and paid for MP 5 out of the 6 days because the 1 day we didn't have it was awful).

 

[SLThomas318]

Your average guest didn't like the amount of planning. They created Genie+ to lessen the planning. Like I posted earlier, the way it was supposed to work is no matter when you opened Genie+ there should be lots of availability. That would still be the case if less people had Genie+ each day. From things I have heard the optimal number of guests using Genie+ daily should be around 10%.

I get it, nobody likes waiting in long lines for rides. My question is what do most of you do when you visit other parks? Do you spend the hundreds of dollars each time to buy the skip the line pass or you do you wait in line?
The reason I ask is why is it acceptable to wait in lines at other parks but it's not at Disney?

I agree genie+ is not working the way they intended. I also have no problem paying when I know what I'm getting. I am not a gambler and genie+ has always felt like gambling to me. I am a planner Fastpass+ spoiled us lol!

We don't go to other parks, but I would consider line skipping programs based on price vs what you get for sure.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree genie+ is not working the way they intended. I also have no problem paying when I know what I'm getting. I am not a gambler and genie+ has always felt like gambling to me. I am a planner Fastpass+ spoiled us lol!

We don't go to other parks, but I would consider line skipping programs based on price vs what you get for sure.

First I will say your last paragraph is partly why IMO many have a hard time understanding why a some say Genie+ should be limited. It's how the skip the line systems work. It's not made for everyone to have.

Second, your average price at most parks usually start at $100 a person for skip the line passes.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

I think Disney over time has created this culture of exclusivity and limited quantities, and people willing to jump thru hoops just to claim superiority in acquiring those items. But at the same time reducing what you actually get.

exclusive ADRs like CRT, then Limited Fastpass slots (both free) and now 7AM- LL, Genie + for fee. Its a frenzy of I got the golden ticket..works for a while until guests start to realize they are getting much less than they used too and working harder for it and now paying extra.

I saw this a few years ago for the Cantina in Galaxies Edge.. Very hard reservation got it a 6 months out of something, I had visions of an old adventures club experience, only to wait in line for reservation, be told I needed to be out in 45 mins and then to have them lead me to a ledge under and exit sign for my husband and I to stand...and be told don't leave your spot or we will give it to another. WTH?? and people are not complaining in droves

I just wish people would start pushing back by not paying for this crap.

 

[DCLMP]

What economic crisis? The investors who put their money where their mouth is are all piling into the US.

A strong dollar is not good for the global economy. A strength of a currency has no correlation to the strength of economy, but yeah investors have no where else to go.

 

[xdan0920]

First I will say your last paragraph is partly why IMO many have a hard time understanding why a some say Genie+ should be limited. It's how the skip the line systems work. It's not made for everyone to have.

Second, your average price at most parks usually start at $100 a person for skip the line passes.

Correct. Disney doesn’t want a skip the line pass. They want as many people as possible to pay as much as possible for paid FP aka G+

 

[Jrb1979]

Correct. Disney doesn’t want a skip the line pass. They want as many people as possible to pay as much as possible for paid FP aka G+

I don't know about that. From what I have heard they didn't expect this many people to buy it each day. Don't get me wrong they love the money coming in from it which is why they don't want to change it.

I will add that they don't get it. They see other parks charge for it but didn't look to see why they work. IMO they can have the same revenue charging $50 a day and limiting it to 25% of guests.

 

[DCLMP]

I'd venture to say that most people who are near not being able to feed their families on their own don't consider WDW as a possibility.

Regardless, this is supply and demand. For however many people can still afford to, it's too many. Raising prices is the only sensible thing to do. I can't begin to list all the things I cannot do because I can't afford them.

I think a lot of people that could afford Disney three years ago can’t today. I’m not ashamed to say I cannot afford the type of WDW vacation I took in 2019. It’s totally out of reach now.

 

[SLThomas318]

First I will say your last paragraph is partly why IMO many have a hard time understanding why a some say Genie+ should be limited. It's how the skip the line systems work. It's not made for everyone to have.

Second, your average price at most parks usually start at $100 a person for skip the line passes.

I think genie+ should be limited and I understand the price needs to be wayyyyyyy higher for it to work the way they intended. Whatever that price/scenario ends up being then each person can decide if it's worth it (something that will vary greatly from person to person).

 

[Jrb1979]

I think a lot of people that could afford Disney three years ago can’t today. I’m not ashamed to say I cannot afford the type of WDW vacation I took in 2019. It’s totally out of reach now.

I agree. I think where the issue is that Disney is the only parks they visit and know. They don't have that other park to fill the void.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think a lot of people that could afford Disney three years ago can’t today. I’m not ashamed to say I cannot afford the type of WDW vacation I took in 2019. It’s totally out of reach now.

I agree with you but also would say "I can afford" is usually a bit hard to pin down when more generally speaking, I know you were giving your personal feelings just sorta expanding on that one. A lot of people can afford stuff but it crosses the threshold of comfortability and I often think that's mostly what people are talking about unless people are in different financial situations than they are portraying on the Boards (totally possible and not my business if it is the case).

I could afford a $10K WDW vacation, which is an often quoted amount of costs on these Boards, but I wouldn't want to spend it. Not at WDW.

Most of our vacations my husband and I have we can afford a lot more than we're spending but we have a sorta general feeling we go with on the costs. We may say "I'd like lodging to be below X" for instance and it's relative to the place we're visiting. This was the case even in 2011 when we were just out of college (well I had graduated the year before) on a Disney vacation together. We weren't nearly as stable as we are now but we could have afforded (and not regretted it later) more than we spent but it was just not how have vacationed together.

I think even at the prices they are now you'd probably find more people than not that could afford Disney if they had gone before but it may cross into that "nope no way that's just not worth it" line than in the past.

 

[HopperFan]

I think we should address the other point this commenter made; where are the additional benefits for on-site guests? The hotel costs continue to go up and the perks go down. All you get is 30 minutes extra time, compared to when it used to be one or two hours. But oh, you can get an hour, but only if you’re Deluxe. Yeah, there’s transportation, but that’s it. Why not allow on site guest to book Genie in advance? I think that would be a good incentive for people to stay on-site. Same thing with dining. I used to love staying on-site because of the benefit of being able to book earlier. They talk about wanting to make money, those two things are incentive enough for people to spend money for their resorts.

But Disney has removed so much - even housekeeping! - and they still have an industry high occupancy rate. If the guests don't care and keep booking - why would Disney need to do anything at all to give them extra? The guests did this to themselves.

When security checks impacted my stay and things started disappearing - I moved offsite where I get way more for my money. Somebody filled my room before I left the parking lot so it mattered not to Disney that after about 140 stays on property I have gone elsewhere.

Disney is laughing that they have removed so much, jacked up prices and it didn't hurt them. The only thing I think MIGHT come back hotel exclusive is Dining Plan. But they need all dining locations open and operating. Disney made bank on that and it keeps folks from leaving property.

My sister used to work at the merge point for Big Thunder at MK and she had to do this often so that the two lines could clear out to make room for more people to go through. She also said the ratio she had to do often was 10 LL to 1 standby but this was back when Fastpass+ was around and not current Genie+.

My DD worked at Soarin' (the good one - not the one now) when it was one of the hardest to get FP. She ended up FP entry or the merge most the time because guests were so nasty or bullied and she could handle it. So many of her CM mates ended up in tears because of guests. She said there the ratio was constantly changing based on the length of both lines. But she had some good stories - the power that CM has.

 

[nikem3]

Again the system itself worked well. If it didn't work for someone that was their problem, not the systems. It was free, take it or leave it. If you wanted 3 in advance, book them. Honestly the ONLY attraction we never got was 7DMT. We could get everything else by spinning the dial day of. Eating a snack, spin the dial - waiting in a line, spin the dial.

I know, I did the same thing, but one of the complaints about Genie+ is that you have to constantly be on your phone. Which is no different than having to do exactly what you are explaining. I've had good success with every system they've announced. But I'm also aware of how often people complained heavily about every single system as well. Its the old adage "you don't know what you got 'til its gone". I'd obviously love the free fast pass to still exist, but regardless of what system they bring in and introduce, people will complain about it and raise hell.