BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[cakebaker]

But Disney has removed so much - even housekeeping! - and they still have an industry high occupancy rate. If the guests don't care and keep booking - why would Disney need to do anything at all to give them extra? The guests did this to themselves.

We still want to be on site- I am simply not dealing with having to drive into WDW every day and especially what has to be dealt with just getting in and out of the MK- plus we like to go back to our resort each afternoon and make use of the amenities there. That said, it's beyond ridiculous that Disney has not brought real housekeeping back. To pay what it costs to stay at a deluxe and all we see of housekeeping is emptying our trash every other day. We had to ask for towels and washcloths several times and making a bed hasn't happened since before Covid. Much as I hate to say it, Universal resorts are doing full service. So, we're dropping back from our usual deluxe resorts and going to moderates. It's a huge savings for us and we still get the on site feel.

 

[Genie+]

They created G+ to maximize spend per guest. That's it. It's a way to get people to spend more without having to shop.

Also a way to equalize the playing field in more than one way.

Onsite guests had an advantage to book FP+ 60 days out and offsite had a hard time at 30 days picking over the little availability left on high demand rides.

Offsite guests had an advantage of paying less than onsite yet still were able to ropedrop parks that did not have morning EMH.

So offsite got ropedrop removed, but they can take the money saved staying offsite to buy Genie+ and ILLs. And onsite guests got best picks of FP+ removed, but they can enter all parks 30 minutes early. Equalizer.

 

[Kingoglow]

I think we should address the other point this commenter made; where are the additional benefits for on-site guests? The hotel costs continue to go up and the perks go down. All you get is 30 minutes extra time, compared to when it used to be one or two hours. But oh, you can get an hour, but only if you’re Deluxe. Yeah, there’s transportation, but that’s it. Why not allow on site guest to book Genie in advance? I think that would be a good incentive for people to stay on-site. Same thing with dining. I used to love staying on-site because of the benefit of being able to book earlier. They talk about wanting to make money, those two things are incentive enough for people to spend money for their resorts.

I was thinking the same. Make Genie+ a (paid) perk for on-site guests only. Make it much more expensive though so it is painful enough that not everyone buys it.

 

[set88]

Your average guest didn't like the amount of planning. They created Genie+ to lessen the planning. Like I posted earlier, the way it was supposed to work is no matter when you opened Genie+ there should be lots of availability. That would still be the case if less people had Genie+ each day. From things I have heard the optimal number of guests using Genie+ daily should be around 10%.

I get it, nobody likes waiting in long lines for rides. My question is what do most of you do when you visit other parks? Do you spend the hundreds of dollars each time to buy the skip the line pass or you do you wait in line?
The reason I ask is why is it acceptable to wait in lines at other parks but it's not at Disney?

Disney fans often seem to know and visit only Disney. I think you're hitting the nail on the head by identifying that as an issue seriously affecting perspective. If people regularly went to other amusement parks, they would know how absolutely unusual it was that Disney ever offered "free" skip the lines passes.

I genuinely feel like showing up at a high quality amusement park and expecting it to be very affordable and not too crowded and not to have to stand in longer lines is flat out unreasonable. Lines exists. They are a part of visiting an amusement park. All of these problems Disney is facing with Genie+ and guest satisfaction really stem from the unreasonable expectation that lines should be easily skippable.

 

[RamblingMad]

Also a way to equalize the playing field in more than one way.

Onsite guests had an advantage to book FP+ 60 days out and offsite had a hard time at 30 days picking over the little availability left on high demand rides.

Offsite guests had an advantage of paying less than onsite yet still were able to ropedrop parks that did not have morning EMH.

So offsite got ropedrop removed, but they can take the money saved staying offsite to buy Genie+. And onsite guests got best picks of FP+ removed, but they can enter all parks 30 minutes early. Equalizer.

The onsite advantage is why I switched from WDW to DL. But now, do I really want to spend for G+ given how spread out the parks are in Orlando? And I can't park hop until 2p, which is also nuts. I liked walking between Hollywood Studios and EPCOT for lunch since EPCOT had better lunch options.

 

[RamblingMad]

Disney fans often seem to know and visit only Disney. I think you're hitting the nail on the head by identifying that as an issue seriously affecting perspective. If people regularly went to other amusement parks, they would know how absolutely unusual it was that Disney ever offered "free" skip the lines passes.

I genuinely feel like showing up at a high quality amusement park and expecting it to be very affordable and not too crowded and not to have to stand in longer lines is flat out unreasonable. Lines exists. All of these problems Disney is facing with Genie+ and guest satisfaction really stem from the unreasonable expectation that lines should be easily skippable.

I blame all of the kids the boomers had. Back in the 90s, waiting in line wasn't that big of a deal. Lines weren't that long. And then paper fastpasses came out that worked great.

Now, it's all about guest spend. Back then the parks were growing and resorts were being built to grow the bottom line. Unless another gate opens or more resorts open, Disney needs to find a way to continue to grow their revenue. G+ works perfectly for this since Disney doesn't need to physically build anything.

 

[Kingoglow]

Have you watched the Defunctland video on fast pass? He offers concrete evidence that FP+ significantly increased standby wait times across the board. That's not better for literally anyone.

People that defend FP+ do so because it worked well for them. And they tend to blame the people it didn't work for rather than acknowledge that the system was inherently unfair and increased wait times overall. That's something also talked about in the video.

It is also pointed out in the video that that the people that FP worked for, worked very very well. The video directly places blame for not getting more out of it on the people that didn't use it at all or didn't use it well. It is an acknowledge feature of the system. Genie+ has the same problem.

I guess my point is that it is not just something 'people tend to blame' the bad users of FP+. It is a proven point.

 

[xdan0920]

I feel like they had to know genie+ wasn't going to work at $15 per person? It will be interesting to see how quickly they raise the price...

It does work. For Disney. That’s the point I’ve been arguing for 20 pages.

 

[set88]

It is also pointed out in the video that that the people that FP worked for, worked very very well. The video directly places blame for not getting more out of it on the people that didn't use it at all or didn't use it well. It is an acknowledge feature of the system. Genie+ has the same problem.

I guess my point is that it is not just something 'people tend to blame' the bad users of FP+. It is a proven point.

I agree that it worked very well for a tiny percentage of people. What I don't agree with is that it only working well for those people, and ignoring the majority it didn't work for and discounting their experience, is somehow acceptable.

If your argument is that anyone could have used FP+ well if they'd only done the research... that would fall apart extremely quickly if everyone actually did that. Because again, the biggest issue here is that the ride capacity simply is not there for everyone to have equal value skip the line passes.

If every guest was equally knowledgeable, it would come down to heavily favoring onsite guests with the longest stays first (which is a monetary division) and/or pure luck. Someone has to be excluded by nature of the system because the ride capacity is not there to offer ALL guests skip the line passes. That, more than anything else, is what the video proved.

I'm also pretty sure that he was very clear in the video to not put blame on guests for not being knowledgeable. Not at all. He was pretty clear in saying that passionate fans of the system who made it work for them were the ones putting the blame on others for not making it work. He himself was not doing that.

 

[nikem3]

Yeah but why Disney? I think a lot of people didn’t want the hassle associated with cruising or international travel. It’s only been a couple of months since most countries dropped all restrictions. Japan just reopened, but most of Asia is still closed. Now there’s an energy crisis and war in Europe.

I think you nailed it on the head. First off, its Disney, secondly restrictions for things like cruising or international travel causes people to want to do SOMETHING. And best option for them is Disney or other theme parks. We will see how it continues through next year.

 

[HopperFan]

I think this will happen for a lot of people. They will cancel ADRs to pay for G+, or not buy as many souvenirs. They will just shift their spending around instead of increasing their spending. Especially for a surprise cost increase and especially for larger families. G+ increase won't affect solo or couple travelers as much as it will hurt families or large traveling groups.


Oh man, I would love to hear those stories!!

ME Cancelled all my ADR next week, even our beloved Sci Fi Dine In. Interesting that every day I look it has times open so I must not be the only one. I only kept our Rose & Crown Fireworks Package and that will be it going forward. No more TS except for a special one like the fireworks package. Food is average the prices are too much. Last trip I wasn't hungry much at lunch (the heat was bad) so I opted to order a side salad ($4) and ice water than grab one of DS chicken fingers and a few fries. I found that we could eat well for $20 total by sharing, and we wasted less time. My food budget went WAY WAY down so now I can get Genie+ if I want. Since TiW is gone we have cut our alcohol budget to almost nil now - just in time since they announced alcoholic drinks are going up too! DS will drink more ice water and less soda. The fact that I am now thinking more about the costs of things, I'll likely spend much less more. Perhaps where they might have messed up - by making the increasing costs of EVERYTHING a forefront story and folks might now be making less impulse buying so they can focus on what is the most important.

Have you watched the Defunctland video on fast pass? He offers concrete evidence that FP+ significantly increased standby wait times across the board. That's not better for literally anyone.

People that defend FP+ do so because it worked well for them. And they tend to blame the people it didn't work for rather than acknowledge that the system was inherently unfair and increased wait times overall. That's something also talked about in the video.

I disagree. And a system that was offered to EVERYONE for free is completely fair and an even playing field. It couldn't get more even than that. If someone didn't want to put in the effort, that doesn't mean the system wasn't fair.

We still want to be on site- I am simply not dealing with having to drive into WDW every day and especially what has to be dealt with just getting in and out of the MK- plus we like to go back to our resort each afternoon and make use of the amenities there. That said, it's beyond ridiculous that Disney has not brought real housekeeping back. To pay what it costs to stay at a deluxe and all we see of housekeeping is emptying our trash every other day. We had to ask for towels and washcloths several times and making a bed hasn't happened since before Covid. Much as I hate to say it, Universal resorts are doing full service. So, we're dropping back from our usual deluxe resorts and going to moderates. It's a huge savings for us and we still get the on site feel.

I hear you, I was on property for many many years. But the perks were diminishing for me. When I can get a 1-2 bedroom condo or hotel suite for less than a value resort WITH kitchen and laundry (pack less) it is hard. When security checks started, they stepped over the line. I did stay at Sports last month because we were doing a Halloween Party and I wanted the bus back.

But we are long past room breaks and we are park centric. We tend to stay very close to Disney but here is a story. Was at MK with two sons and a friend. One son and I were staying past the Outlet Mall and the other & friend staying at POP Century. We all left park. DS and I rode the ferry, walked to our car, drove out (with delay due to police situation in parking lot), drove to hotel and as I was getting ready for bed DS & friend texted that the bus for POP had just arrived. I for the most part stay no more than 15 minutes parking lot to parking lot. There isn't even a Disney bus ride that short.

The only way for me to keep going as much as I wanted (6x a year) the best place to save money was the hotel.

I was thinking the same. Make Genie+ a (paid) perk for on-site guests only. Make it much more expensive though so it is painful enough that not everyone buys it.

Given that most park guests are not staying onsite I think this could be PR problem. Traditionally all park guests have been treated fairly equally given they are all paying the same to enter that gate. It's one thing to allow hotel guests to say get it included (like Universal) but to not offer at all to offsite guests is probably not feasible. AND that is lots of money lost. Bottom line ALL OF THESE DECISION is to make Disney more money. It has nothing to do with the guest experience.

I think this will happen for a lot of people. They will cancel ADRs to pay for G+, or not buy as many souvenirs. They will just shift their spending around instead of increasing their spending. Especially for a surprise cost increase and especially for larger families. G+ increase won't affect solo or couple travelers as much as it will hurt families or large traveling groups.


Oh man, I would love to hear those stories!!

Not the thread but I'll say one thing ....
While Disney does not have as many cameras as people think they do there are cameras fairly up close on the guests flying on Soarin'. There is a person that sits there and watches the cameras so if they see an issue they can E-Stop. You wouldn't believe the gross behavior they see.

Also a way to equalize the playing field in more than one way.

Onsite guests had an advantage to book FP+ 60 days out and offsite had a hard time at 30 days picking over the little availability left on high demand rides.

Offsite guests had an advantage of paying less than onsite yet still were able to ropedrop parks that did not have morning EMH.

So offsite got ropedrop removed, but they can take the money saved staying offsite to buy Genie+ and ILLs. And onsite guests got best picks of FP+ removed, but they can enter all parks 30 minutes early. Equalizer.

Nothing equal about Genie+ ....

 

[set88]

I disagree. And a system that was offered to EVERYONE for free is completely fair and an even playing field. It couldn't get more even than that. If someone didn't want to put in the effort, that doesn't mean the system wasn't fair.

It blatantly was not, though.

If your argument is that anyone could have used FP+ well if they'd only done the research... that would fall apart extremely quickly if everyone actually did that. Because again, the biggest issue here is that the ride capacity simply is not there for everyone to have equal value skip the line passes.

If every guest was equally knowledgeable, it would come down to favoring onsite guests with the longest stays first (which is a monetary division) and/or pure luck. Someone has to be excluded by nature of the system because the ride capacity is not there to offer ALL guests skip the line passes.

That is not, at all, by any stretch of the imagination, an even playing field. Someone HAS to be excluded.

And a monetary division based on the amount of money spent on the hotel stay is not inherently more fair than a monetary division based on paying per day for that specific perk. It is still a monetary division. Absolutely no less so than Genie+.

What Genie+ does that FP+ didn't do, in addition to having cut down from almost everyone using it to only 50% using it, is allow a guest who arrives with no knowledge on day 1 to catch up and use the system well by day 2 or 3 if they want to. Whereas with FP+, it was already too late weeks in advance. Again, this is more fair to more people.

If you don't agree with that, you are saying that you deliberately favor a system which actively relies on many people being excluded due to lack of knowledge... because if everyone had the same knowledge, it would come down to amount of money spent on hotel stay and/or luck.

By far the most fair system would be no system at all.

 

[DCLMP]

I think you nailed it on the head. First off, its Disney, secondly restrictions for things like cruising or international travel causes people to want to do SOMETHING. And best option for them is Disney or other theme parks. We will see how it continues through next year.

It’s really cheap to cruise right now and with the cost of food it’s the currently the most affordable vacation . I’m not sure how long that will last either. I’ll enjoy it while it does.

 

[HopperFan]

It blatantly was not, though.

If your argument is that anyone could have used FP+ well if they'd only done the research... that would fall apart extremely quickly if everyone actually did that. Because again, the biggest issue here is that the ride capacity simply is not there for everyone to have equal value skip the line passes.

If every guest was equally knowledgeable, it would come down to favoring onsite guests with the longest stays first (which is a monetary division) and/or pure luck. Someone has to be excluded by nature of the system because the ride capacity is not there to offer ALL guests skip the line passes.

That is not, at all, by any stretch of the imagination, an even playing field. Someone HAS to be excluded.

And a monetary division based on the amount of money spent on the hotel stay is not inherently more fair than a monetary division based on paying per day for that specific perk. It is still a monetary division. Absolutely no less so than Genie+.

What Genie+ does that FP+ didn't do, in addition to having cut down from almost everyone using it to only 50% using it, is allow a guest who arrives with no knowledge on day 1 to catch up and use the system well by day 2 or 3 if they want to. Whereas with FP+, it was already too late weeks in advance. Again, this is more fair to more people.

By far the most fair system would be no system at all.

I agree that the fairest system of all would be no system.

BUT as a whole I disagree otherwise.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think you nailed it on the head. First off, its Disney, secondly restrictions for things like cruising or international travel causes people to want to do SOMETHING. And best option for them is Disney or other theme parks. We will see how it continues through next year.

Majority of people aren't just up and deciding to go to Disney because lack of other options (because there are absolutely many other places to go to domestically). They appear to be up and deciding to go to Disney because it appeals to them in the first place and more than likely have been visitors before. It could very well be people who are replacing that international trip with another Disney trip instead of doing both in a normal/average year.

You had people who were fine going to Disney with covid restrictions blurring right into people who had canceled trips that were rescheduled which had blurred into people traveling like they usually would these days. It's really just been a constant stream.

I agree about international and cruise travel although I believe it was pointed out it was cheaper to do a DCL cruise than to go to WDW. My FL DISer friends have taken multiple cruises (one is about to be on another one).

I've been to Vegas 3 times during this pandemic and each trip has been subsequently busier than the one before. I don't really believe the restrictions in Vegas were that much of a deterrent but I do believe the lack of shows did hurt them. Having spacing in the casinos and masks did not seem to affect people's desire to gamble though lol.

 

[Eastern]

Yeah but why Disney? I think a lot of people didn’t want the hassle associated with cruising or international travel. It’s only been a couple of months since most countries dropped all restrictions. Japan just reopened, but most of Asia is still closed. Now there’s an energy crisis and war in Europe.

Yes, I didn't cruise with my family because we all weren't vaccinated. Cruising out of some ports has just dropped the vaccine restriction and so we were able to go. It was a very nice vacation at a very nice price, much cheaper than Disney. During the pandemic we did Disney several times because they didn't have restrictions. The price hurt but we valued the convenience of not jumping through hoops.

And as you said, a lot of people just didn't want to deal with international travel and the possibility of being stranded/quarantined. Disney is still benefitting from people who need to use points and planned trips but I don't see the mania lasting. The prices (of everything Disney) are ridiculous.

 

[MEC004]

So, you get DAS, for free, which allows you access to even the paid lightning lane for free AND access front of the line at places like the People Mover where there isn't even a LL (or at least we did in August with the exception of Guardians), and don't NEED G+, and you're complaining about the people who ARE paying for the product?

Gotcha.

So many people get DAS and G+. I’m not going to because it would just be another thing to keep up with. Which you would have read in my post if you actually took the time. The paid LL and the G+ has caused an increase in LL which impacts DAS users (which are issued due to a disability). DAS users cannot go to the front of the line and our LL time is for only one ride and we can’t stack. It is for the posted standby time and in that 60+ we are waiting to return to the LL we are then having to wait another 60+ in some cases. When you have a person using DAS those LL times defeat the purpose and a lot of people are having to just cancel.

If my son didn’t qualify I would happily pay for G+ and even pay LL. All I said is I’m hoping it does decrease the line and help mitigate the issue.

Anyway you seem like a wonderful person who understands the DAS system perfectly and can navigate how I am complaining about my “free” service that is for my disabled son.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

Love this guy. Highly recommend this video

 

[DCLMP]

I really didn’t think the crowds were bad at all this year. Much better than 2019. The cost on the other hand was way higher.

 

[projectx3]

G+ was priced too low from day one. Once they announced guests would no longer be able to reserve G+ in advance it was obvious to me price increases were on the way. I locked in G+ for our November trip for all 5 park days. I'll admit, it felt like overkill at the time but it turned out well. I'm now getting 5 days of G+ for what will be the new price of 3.5 days.
On the surface going from $15 to $22 doesn't sound like that much. But for a family that extra $7 per person per day adds up quick for a multi-day vacation.

While I don't think it will make a huge dent in the number of sales, it will pass a threshold for more than the $15 mark did.

Now, the ILL going from $15 to $22? That's significant. For my family of five, $75 stings but worth for rides like RotR, which I haven't been on yet.. Now it will be $110, and that gives me pause.