BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[set88]

Or maybe those of us who have the “wrong attitude” of not wanting to wait 2 hours in line on a VACATION have always been around but we just spend our vacation dollars elsewhere. Before 2016 I had never been to Disney World. We’d taken our kids on day trips to local theme parks on the weekend, but disliked the experience and went very infrequently, and never spent a vacation at a theme park. We did all inclusive beach resorts in the caribbean or cruises instead. We did a weekend trip to Disney just to give our kids the experience and were blown away with how easy and fun the experience was. We never waited in any lines and could set our own pace and schedule FP at the time that worked for us, planning around meals, lazy mornings and afternoon pool breaks. I came home and immediately booked a weeklong trip a couple months from then, and between then and 2020 we did 3-4 trips per year. But today’s prices are more than double what we paid then, and for a lesser experience. We hated the lack of FP on our mid-2021 trip and have not been back to Disney World since—instead we’ve done three cruise vacations and they were all cheaper and far more enjoyable than our last disney trip. We have a trip booked in Nov. but the thought of waking up before 7 each day only to potentially be stuck with a ride at an inconvenient time, or lose out altogether and have to wait standby, already is making me feel exhausted. I am pretty sure we will be skipping 2023 altogether and just do other vacations.

Errr... I never said anyone who doesn't want to stand in lines on vacation has the "wrong attitude." What I HAVE said is that coming to a theme park at busy times and expecting not to stand in line for popular rides is unreasonable. Lines are part of the theme park experience. In fact, I was pretty clear that if you don't want to stand in lines, you should choose another type of vacation. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just personal preference.

I've said it so many times, I don't want to keep repeating it, but, FP+ worked well for those it worked for, and I do understand why it's frustrating that a system that worked well for you no longer exists. HOWEVER.... FP+ had a MAJOR cost in enjoyment for the average parkgoer. Standby lines were proven to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher as a result of the existence of FP+.

Everyone who enjoyed their time with FP+ needs to understand that their enjoyment came at the direct cost of enjoyment for many others.

The reason for this is that Disney does not have the ride capacity to offer everyone skip the line passes. For everyone that got good FPs, there was someone that did not, and had a much worse time as a result.

Understanding this, it should be understandable why FP+ no longer exists. It was never a sustainable system to start with and was bound to be removed/replaced. Genie+ is likely not the long term answer, but that doesn't mean that FP+ is what should come back.

 

[CeeCee101]

We haven’t been back in 13 years and are headed down next month. We used to go 2x per year and had APs even though we live far away. We remember the days before any passes. You just gritted it out BUT it never seemed too bad. I remember once and only once did we wait 90 minutes for a ride. There were definitely slower times of the year in those days and from what I keep reading slower times are gone. Then came paper FPs and we thought they were great. we missed the whole FP+ deal. Our biggest concern now is timing. I keep reading about getting up at 7 to book something like Rise and not getting a return time until 7 pm or 12 hours later. Never once did this happen with paper FP. And that’s not something we view as a benefit. yes, we can rope drop and do standby lines, but we never had a paper FP that gave a return time of more than a few hours out. Ever. Nevertheless we bought Genie+ for length of trip, and we will buy ILLs. But our experiment of trying WDW again after 13 years I guess will be interesting. If it doesn’t work out we will be back to Europe, it’s been much cheaper than WDW all these years. Anyway I do thank the boards for all the tips but I worry about what it’s going to be like….

 

[leeniewdw]

We did a weekend trip to Disney just to give our kids the experience and were blown away with how easy and fun the experience was. We never waited in any lines and could set our own pace and schedule FP at the time that worked for us, planning around meals, lazy mornings and afternoon pool breaks. I came home and immediately booked a weeklong trip a couple months from then, and between then and 2020 we did 3-4 trips per year. But today’s prices are more than double what we paid then, and for a lesser experience.

We're taking our grown DSs in their 20s with SOs next month. They haven't been since they were in middle school (all 4 of them). So we're spending all this money and something as simple as letting them pick which park we re-visit on the 3rd day (we're doing MVMCP, so we'll hit 4 parks in 2 days) may not be possible due to park reservations filling up (2 parks did last year on that same day). That alone is pretty frustrating. (Then add in work around returns times , 2pm PH time, and dining etc)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Before 2016 I had never been to Disney World.

I think the key part of your argument though about taking your vacation dollars elsewhere is did you specifically and primarily choose Disney to vacation at because they had FP+? Did you choose Disney over any other vacation destination knowing exactly how it worked and were completely aware with picking your FPs (3 of them and working around tiers) 60 days in advance at IDK what was 6 or 7am or 30 days in advance if offsite.

There's some truth to the PP's point about patience and waiting in lines. My parents took me to parks when I was a young kid (think 2 and 3 year old). I went to all sorts of parks and the experience is pretty easy to see the difference in pictures. The simplest detail such as the extremely basic type of stroller used would show you what people used to do over the years is different now. For a long time waiting in lines is what you did. The other truth is that just like how we've all gotten used to cell phones it's hard to look at how it was before then. Now, well now we have products that allow us to skip the line. Most are a high priced paid system but they are there none the less. But my experience is people have less patience at Disney than the other parks I've been to and it didn't use to feel quite as bad. I remember our 2011 trip where we hardly used Legacy FP, people were not as grouchy back then from what I remember, and a lot more people were unaware/didn't use Legacy FP compared to FP+ at least it seems to me but that's my perception. The vibe at other parks does seem to be more of an understanding towards waiting in line. No one is saying you actually love love love that experience though just that the perspective seems to be different.

 

[scrappinginontario]

I'm looking at the MDE app and I cannot find Genie+ prices for future dates. I don't think it's available. Wouldn't you know we leave in two days.

Since this change was made Tuesday, prices are only known day-of. That may change in the future but for now Disney is not displaying future dated Genie+ prices.

 

[Kingoglow]

I also don't think it's an issue that is any worse with Genie+ than it was with FP+. It should be significantly better because 50% less people are using Genie+ than were using FP+.

I don't understand where you are getting these numbers.

 

[OffToDWD]

With the dynamic pricing for Genie+, would they predetermine the price for the day? Or would they adjust the pricing throughout the day (depending on the volume sold at that point in time)?

 

[set88]

I don't understand where you are getting these numbers.

It's an approximation based on the stat that around 40-50% of people are buying Genie+ daily.

 

[Kingoglow]

I get that - but the problem there is lack of perspective.

FP+ only worked well for the minority of park guests that knew how to and were able to use it to their advantage. For your average parkgoer, especially those not doing long onsite stays, the lines were made MUCH worse by FP+.

I wish everyone who feels like you're saying about FP+ would take the time to understand that their enjoyment came at a HUGE cost to the enjoyment of many, many others.

For an illustration of exactly how that is true, with concrete evidence, I highly recommend watching Defunctland's YouTube video on the history of Fastpass.

Seen the video. Still prefer FP+.

You continue to post these statements again and again, and I just don't think as many people understand G+ as you say they do. If we trust the numbers that Disney has released, that most G+ guests get 2-3 attractions out of it, then no, G+ users do not understand how to use the product anymore than they did with FP+.

So in this regard, G+ is no better than FP+ at alleviating the problem you describe in this quote; that enjoyment for some comes at the cost of enjoyment from others. Turns out, it is the same. But now we all suffer and we all have to pay money for it.

 

[Smugpugmug]

It's an approximation based on the stat that around 40-50% of people are buying Genie+ daily.

Didn't Chapek himself say that 50% of guests buy Genie+? I know recently he said 70% of guests that bought it plan on buying it again but that doesn't mean 70% of people are using it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If we trust the numbers that Disney has released, that most G+ guests get 2-3 attractions out of it,

I think that points to people actually knowing how to use it or at the very least actually using it. There's been many reports that on low to even moderate crowd days with less people typically using it people are able to get more rides. Disney put the disclaimer out there about the 2-3 attractions for the very reason that people were getting so upset at having purchased something and yet not having many rides they got with it. They put the disclaimer to lower people's expectations of just what the average guests should think about when purchasing it.

 

[DavidNYC]

Errr... I never said anyone who doesn't want to stand in lines on vacation has the "wrong attitude." What I HAVE said is that coming to a theme park at busy times and expecting not to stand in line for popular rides is unreasonable. Lines are part of the theme park experience. In fact, I was pretty clear that if you don't want to stand in lines, you should choose another type of vacation. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just personal preference.

I've said it so many times, I don't want to keep repeating it, but, FP+ worked well for those it worked for, and I do understand why it's frustrating that a system that worked well for you no longer exists. HOWEVER.... FP+ had a MAJOR cost in enjoyment for the average parkgoer. Standby lines were proven to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher as a result of the existence of FP+.

Everyone who enjoyed their time with FP+ needs to understand that their enjoyment came at the direct cost of enjoyment for many others.

The reason for this is that Disney does not have the ride capacity to offer everyone skip the line passes. For everyone that got good FPs, there was someone that did not, and had a much worse time as a result.

Understanding this, it should be understandable why FP+ no longer exists. It was never a sustainable system to start with and was bound to be removed/replaced. Genie+ is likely not the long term answer, but that doesn't mean that FP+ is what should come back.

Do you know what FP+ was???? Your statement that Disney does not have capacity to offer it to everyone is just flat out wrong. FP+ was offered to everyone for free. The "average" parkgoer had access to it as well. And while standby lines may have been a bit longer - that is offset by the lines you got to skip . . . without a cost. I have no idea where you're pulling out this downside to the average parkgoer when there really was no such thing under that any more than there was under any prior system available to all. Genie+ does not change the downsides you listed - it just adds a lot more of them. The ONE thing I will say I consider fair (although I don't like it) is that you can use it only once per day per ride. That is logical to make sure as many people as possible can use it on a ride. FP+ worked perfectly well and there have been threads and threads about how all it needed was minor tweaks to solve nearly every problem that people had with it.

What is comes down to is this has nothing to do with a "sustainable system" or "guest benefit". It's 100% about money regardless of how it detracts from the guest experience. This should be painfully obvious by MASSIVE flaws which they could have fixed but didn't (i.e. not holding the times the show you for even 10 seconds resulting in you getting assigned a time hours different from what it said) or taking away major guest conveniences (such as picking your own time). The not holding a time to me shows a massive contempt for the guests - it shows they don't care about allowing a guest to plan a day or providing accurate info to them. It says that they want you to pay all this money and then dictate to you how they want you to tour the parks. They make you pay for a system and then don't even give you accurate info on it because they don't care.

They used to - every other system added flexibilty to many different types of touring styles. This is the first one that has removed them and done so in a way that you can't even plan around them. They get you there and you're stuck with what you get.

 

[lugnut33]

We're taking our grown DSs in their 20s with SOs next month. They haven't been since they were in middle school (all 4 of them). So we're spending all this money and something as simple as letting them pick which park we re-visit on the 3rd day (we're doing MVMCP, so we'll hit 4 parks in 2 days) may not be possible due to park reservations filling up (2 parks did last year on that same day). That alone is pretty frustrating. (Then add in work around returns times , 2pm PH time, and dining etc)

Remember the days when you could wake up and decide which park to go to based on which bus showed up first?

 

[Miffy]

Oh, no, it doesn't assume that at all. FP+ being an unsustainable and unfair system doesn't mean that Genie+ is somehow a sustainable or fair system.

I would say that Genie+ is definitely better than FP+ for more people overall. It still favors advanced knowledge, but it does not mean you're out of luck for your whole trip if you didn't do major planning months in advance (or if you didn't have a long onsite hotel stay). Every single person is on a level playing field every single day - so if you didn't understand Genie+ or use it well on the first day of your trip, you could learn to use it by the second day of your trip. It also levels the playing field between offsite and onsite guests.... which is nice for people that want to save money by staying offsite, but put some money toward Genie+.

I think Genie+ works fine for most in mid to lower crowds. I've seen fairly positive things about it from those that used it over the summer. The majority of major complaints about it were from people trying to use it in peak times like last holiday season or Spring Break, when the ride capacity simply isn't there for Genie+ to offer a good value. And unfortunately, it is peak times where skipping the line is most needed.

I've said it a few times, but I genuinely believe the best system for Disney to offer would be a very expensive skip the line pass that lets people skip the line at each attraction once - and cap sales to no more than 10-15% of guests per day. That's the same exact system that every other theme park uses, for good reason.

The advantage of this for everyone is that standby waits are not significantly higher due to so many LL entries via either FP+ or Genie+.

I will say that I think if Genie+ was capped at just high crowd times, it might work fine and be a sustainable system. The only downside to that I see is people's uncertainty with whether they will be able to get it on a day to day basis.

You may be correct about this. My only experience of WDW without any skip-the-line system was in May last year, and some of the lines were so long, we just didn't do the attraction at all.

If WDW does do this, though, I simply won't be able to afford it and that might affect my desire for visits, since waiting in 2-hour-long lines is not my idea of a good time.

 

[set88]

Seen the video. Still prefer FP+.

You continue to post these statements again and again, and I just don't think as many people understand G+ as you say they do. If we trust the numbers that Disney has released, that most G+ guests get 2-3 attractions out of it, then no, G+ users do not understand how to use the product anymore than they did with FP+.

So in this regard, G+ is no better than FP+ at alleviating the problem you describe in this quote; that enjoyment for some comes at the cost of enjoyment from others. Turns out, it is the same. But now we all suffer and we all have to pay money for it.

I've explained several times that one major advantage to Genie+ is that if you didn't understand it on day 1, you could learn to use it by day 2 and be at the same advantage as everyone else. Versus FP+ where it was far too late long before you ever stepped foot in the park.

Genie+ also doesn't rely on someone to have booked a long onsite hotel stay. As I've also said a few times - both systems create monetary divisions. The source of those divisions is just different, and I personally think not having the system tied to the hotel stay is more fair overall.

Where are the stats that most people using Genie+ only book 2 or 3 rides? I know Disney has stated that as a disclaimer for people purchasing Genie+, but where have they stated that this is the average number a user actually gets? Genuinely curious.

Because FP+ was available for everyone and Genie+ is available only to those who buy it, there should be significantly less of an effect on the standby line from Genie+ vs FP+. AFAIK, there is no data on whether standby wait times are as drastically affected with Genie+ as they were with FP+, so there's no way to say that Genie+ is having a negative impact on standby lines to the same degree.

Does it impact standby lines? Of course it does. Is it as bad as it was with FP+? That depends on whether having significantly less people using the system has meant that Disney has significantly cut the available number of passes for each ride down as well. If there is data out there about that, I'd be very curious to see it.

I am assuming that there are less passes available overall since less people are using the system. Meaning Genie+ should not impact the enjoyment of those not using it nearly as much as FP+ did.

 

[projectx3]

I didn't realize the $15-$22 range was just the increase for October. I would be stunned if it isn't at least in the $25-$30 range over Thanksgiving and Christmas.

 

[DCLMP]

Do you know what FP+ was???? Your statement that Disney does not have capacity to offer it to everyone is just flat out wrong. FP+ was offered to everyone for free. The "average" parkgoer had access to it as well. And while standby lines may have been a bit longer - that is offset by the lines you got to skip . . . without a cost. I have no idea where you're pulling out this downside to the average parkgoer when there really was no such thing under that any more than there was under any prior system available to all. Genie+ does not change the downsides you listed - it just adds a lot more of them. The ONE thing I will say I consider fair (although I don't like it) is that you can use it only once per day per ride. That is logical to make sure as many people as possible can use it on a ride. FP+ worked perfectly well and there have been threads and threads about how all it needed was minor tweaks to solve nearly every problem that people had with it.

What is comes down to is this has nothing to do with a "sustainable system" or "guest benefit". It's 100% about money regardless of how it detracts from the guest experience. This should be painfully obvious by MASSIVE flaws which they could have fixed but didn't (i.e. not holding the times the show you for even 10 seconds resulting in you getting assigned a time hours different from what it said) or taking away major guest conveniences (such as picking your own time). The not holding a time to me shows a massive contempt for the guests - it shows they don't care about allowing a guest to plan a day or providing accurate info to them. It says that they want you to pay all this money and then dictate to you how they want you to tour the parks. They make you pay for a system and then don't even give you accurate info on it because they don't care.

They used to - every other system added flexibilty to many different types of touring styles. This is the first one that has removed them and done so in a way that you can't even plan around them. They get you there and you're stuck with what you get.

Fast pass plus did not work perfectly well. The standby lines were insanely long. I would not call that a successful system. Our trip in May I never saw a standby line over 60 minutes. I'm not saying genie+ is great, but it was certainly better than the 3 hour standby lines we saw February of 2019. Our best trips were in 2021 without either.

 

[set88]

Do you know what FP+ was???? Your statement that Disney does not have capacity to offer it to everyone is just flat out wrong. FP+ was offered to everyone for free. The "average" parkgoer had access to it as well. And while standby lines may have been a bit longer - that is offset by the lines you got to skip . . . without a cost. I have no idea where you're pulling out this downside to the average parkgoer when there really was no such thing under that any more than there was under any prior system available to all. Genie+ does not change the downsides you listed - it just adds a lot more of them. The ONE thing I will say I consider fair (although I don't like it) is that you can use it only once per day per ride. That is logical to make sure as many people as possible can use it on a ride. FP+ worked perfectly well and there have been threads and threads about how all it needed was minor tweaks to solve nearly every problem that people had with it.

What is comes down to is this has nothing to do with a "sustainable system" or "guest benefit". It's 100% about money regardless of how it detracts from the guest experience. This should be painfully obvious by MASSIVE flaws which they could have fixed but didn't (i.e. not holding the times the show you for even 10 seconds resulting in you getting assigned a time hours different from what it said) or taking away major guest conveniences (such as picking your own time). The not holding a time to me shows a massive contempt for the guests - it shows they don't care about allowing a guest to plan a day or providing accurate info to them. It says that they want you to pay all this money and then dictate to you how they want you to tour the parks. They make you pay for a system and then don't even give you accurate info on it because they don't care.

They used to - every other system added flexibilty to many different types of touring styles. This is the first one that has removed them and done so in a way that you can't even plan around them. They get you there and you're stuck with what you get.

Sigh.

Watch the Defunctland Fastpass video on YouTube. He explains exactly what Disney did to try to account for the fact that they did not have the capacity to offer meaningful Fastpasses to every single guest.

The fact that every guest could get some Fastpasses is not, in any way, an indication that everyone's Fastpasses were of the same value. Because they clearly and unequivocally were not. Some guests - those with the best Disney knowledge and those that booked longer onsite hotel stays - had access to the most beneficial Fastpasses. Those not staying onsite and those planning trips less far in advance got much less useful consolation Fastpasses.

So, no, those with the consolation Fastpasses to much less popular rides that typically don't get long waits anyway did not have their extra wait time offset compared to those who got the best Fastpasses to the attractions with the longest waits.

I'm genuinely surprised that this needs to be explained.

I am not saying Genie+ is a great system. I have never said that. That does not mean that FP+ was a great system either - it was not. That has been proven based on actual data.

 

[wilkydelts]

Can we please stop posting the same things over and over to this thread. After three times your point was made.

 

[PaladinButters]

Didn't Chapek himself say that 50% of guests buy Genie+? I know recently he said 70% of guests that bought it plan on buying it again but that doesn't mean 70% of people are using it.

Also where is the data showing 100% of guests were using FP+ just because it was available? How many of those guest that did use it planned 3 and that's it meaning they weren't taking capacity from other rides? How many people re-rode things taking "double" capacity out of a different ride? Why is Gamora? Nobody knows.