Boycott EMM or...

[KrazeeK120]

But the number of attractions in MK in 2010 was very different from the number of attractions in 2015. So if there's "room" to expand, there's nothing wrong with that. This company exists to make money. It's like you're holding a grudge against a company for finding more way to make money... I'm a stockholder, and I am all for them finding more ways to bring in revenue.

Yes. This. Vacations aren't a necessity, they are a luxury. Disney's reason for existence is to make money. If they can find enough people willing to pay for any given product/activity/dessert party/opportunity to meat the real Mickey Mouse/chance to smell actual pixie dust, you bet they'll charge for it. If something becomes unprofitable, they'll change or cancel it.

2 other, semi-unrelated thoughts.

-My guess is that the "average" Disney guest really doesn't care that these "extras" are being offered or have any idea if or how it will impact their touring. Just because us Dis-ers spend at least a moderate amount of time scouring crowd calendars and wait times in order to set up our optimal trip doesn't mean the "average" guest does the same thing. On my first adult trip, I got the Birnbaum guide and read through it, and that was it. As I've taken more trips, I've learned more and more about how to optimize my experience. I'd be willing to put money on an average first-time guest not having a clue as to how EMH affects day-to-day touring patterns. (My point here is that a boycott of any of these "extras" would likely never happen because there wouldn't be enough people informed enough to want to boycott.)

-I like the brand Coach. However, I only have 3 coach bags. 1 I purchased with gift cards I got for my birthday, 1 I purchased on sale at 30% off, and the third I purchased on sale at 70% off. Why? Of course, because the bags are expensive. The bags I have aren't necessarily my first choice in style, but I like them and could afford them. Should I be mad at Coach for not offering their product at a lower price point at which I would be more comfortable purchasing? Of course not. They sell their products at a price which nets them the profit they desire. Disney does the same thing.

(I'm a stockholder too and anything Disney does to make money also makes me money so I say...go for it, Disney!)

 

[GPC0321]

OK , well maybe boycott was not the right word for my post title . I don't mean to tell anyone how or where to spend their money . The purpose of my OP was to point out that we could be looking at a situation where Disney execs decide that this model , EMM , is a way to give anyone early access to the parks (and that is the way they will sell it ) , not just resort guests getting EMH , which will be phased out not only saving them money but making them more money . Basically a bait and switch , selling exclusivity that gradually becomes more and more crowded and less exclusive . In other words just like EMH .

But, with all due respect, it doesn't make sense that Disney would do this. All this scenario would do is possibly drive people away from staying on property, and then if the EMM becomes less exclusive and therefore not worth as much, people would stop paying the extra for that too. So Disney is left with less rooms being filled on property and less people buying the EMM option. Why would they do that?

I also wonder...will this EMM thing go on during other seasons, or is it just a summer thing. I think another added benefit is starting the day long before the wretched heat gets too terrible. Ride 7DMT, Peter Pan, and Pooh as many times as you want, then grab some breakfast, and by the time the park opens for the rest of the public, you can be poised and ready to hit BTMRR or Splash (or whatever) ahead of the stampede. Then use your 3 FP+ and you'll have had a nice day before the sweltering afternoon heat and thunderstorms. Go back to the resort, eat lunch, rest, swim, whatever, and come back out for nighttime fun.

I can see paying $69 for it. It's more valuable to me than any of the dessert parties.

 

[Regan117]

And we're all free to sit on the sidelines and express our opinions about those offerings.

Yes you are, just as much as we are entitled to think these events are GREAT and want more. I don't begrudge anyone for not liking these extras. But don't make us feel like criminals because we don't have a problem paying for them.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

What is a bonus for one person is the entire reason for attending to another.

But I get it. EMM offers nothing in addition to the attraction access and breakfast. You want with all your heart to believe they won't ruin it by diluting the experience with more bodies. I believe with all my heart they won't be able to resist the temptation of inching those numbers up (assuming it remains popular).

Only time will tell.

From many years of past experiences with WDW, my money is on your heart.

 

[YawningDodo]

Thoughts about armchair analysis of Disney's business practices -- warning that this giant wall of text consists of nothing more than one (1) example of hidden costs for the sole purpose of pointing out that we don't know the full story and can't say it would only cost Disney $X.XX to open the park for everyone at 7:45.




So in my earlier example, the CM (ickle college!me) assigned to do laundry could be scheduled for 5:00 rather than 6:00 on a regular basis. Presume that there is an unknown but significant number of cast members in other roles on the same schedule that similarly get bumped an hour earlier every morning because Disney has decided to fully open the parks at 7:45 on a daily basis. That's perfectly feasible, but there are some hidden costs involved (and this example won't even take into account the higher number of on-stage cast members that need to be scheduled to cover a longer park day).

When I worked at WDW, I was there on the Disney College Program. Fairly typically for a CP who had come from far out of state, I did not bring a car with me, and relied on the Disney-provided CP buses for all my transportation (Disney does not operate these buses themselves, but contracts with another company -- same as they contract with a property management company to operate the CP apartment complexes). In order to arrive on time for my 6:00 shift, I had to catch the 5:15 DHS bus, which was (as far as I can recall) the first DHS bus of the day back in 2009.

When a CP is scheduled for a shift that begins before the regularly scheduled buses could get her or him to the work site on time (or will be kept at work later than the last bus back), that CP calls the bus company ahead of time and requests a special pickup. Someone then schedules all these special requests, vans pick the CPs up at their various complexes and ferry them to the primary complex to be split up into irregularly scheduled buses and vans, and off they go.

Why does this matter? Well, if the park opens earlier every morning, cast members have to be there earlier to open it. The regularly scheduled CP buses run when CPs are expected to need to get to and from work. If they start scheduling more positions earlier in the morning and/or later at night, there are three options:
1.) Pay the company that provides the CP buses more money to run more irregular buses at odd hours
2.) Pay the company that provides the CP buses more money to start the regular buses earlier/run them later
3.) Stop scheduling CPs for early shifts, thereby artificially limiting the pool of cast members and putting strain on schedulers/increasing reliance on permanent cast members, who probably get paid more (at least I hope they do; my pay was atrocious).

Is any of this insurmountable? Of course not! All three of those options are perfectly doable. Disney isn't looking for "is this possible to do," though. They're looking for "is this this profitable?" And yeah, in the grand scheme of things this specific example is almost certainly a drop in the bucket. I'm not trying to provide you with a breakdown of exactly what is and is not financially viable for Disney. I'm just trying to point out that there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes and on the ledgers that most guests don't know about, and that armchair analysis of Disney's operations is just that: armchair analysis.

 

[Lalalyn]

Everyone has their breaking point. I'm neutral on EMM. Would maybe do it at Epcot depending on the offerings. Only one of my three kids is tall enough for Soarin' and TT so maybe just her and I do it. But those would have to be included.

But then again, I worry it will be so popular at Epcot that they will tier all the parks to make EMMs more attractive. Tiering at MK might push me over the edge. Having to pay for FP+ while staying onsite absolutely would.

Eliminating EMHs might, depending on whether they are replaced with other perks of staying onsite.

We are going for a week at the end of January 2017. Will be our third year in a row. I'm very close to saying we will find another winter vacation in 2018. Disney, you are on notice!

 

[Planogirl]

Everyone has their breaking point. I'm neutral on EMM. Would maybe do it at Epcot depending on the offerings. Only one of my three kids is tall enough for Soarin' and TT so maybe just her and I do it. But those would have to be included.

But then again, I worry it will be so popular at Epcot that they will tier all the parks to make EMMs more attractive. Tiering at MK might push me over the edge. Having to pay for FP+ while staying onsite absolutely would.

Eliminating EMHs might, depending on whether they are replaced with other perks of staying onsite.

We are going for a week at the end of January 2017. Will be our third year in a row. I'm very close to saying we will find another winter vacation in 2018. Disney, you are on notice!

I'm with you. I agree with others that everyone has the right to like or not like this stuff but where if anywhere will it lead?

 

[IrishNYC]

As for attraction capacity, there are lots of ways for them to massage that. "So the guest ends up waiting in line 20 minutes instead of our current 10? Still a great deal for them. If not, they'll quit buying tickets. Make it happen. And while you're up, pass me some more cash to fondle."

The way EMM is now, by all reports I've seen, is that there is zero wait. That's the hook. That's why people are willing to pay for this. Not a 10 minute wait, no wait. Many have reported they didn't even have to get off the ride and re-queue. I am very willing to pay for a no wait experience, not a 10 minute wait, and definitely not a 20 minute wait.

 

[JimmyV]

That's why people are willing to pay for this. Not a 10 minute wait, no wait.

10 minute wait, plus one minute boarding time plus 3 minute ride plus one minute to exit and get back into the end of the line = one ride every 15 minutes. That is 4 or 5 rides during the EMM time period. That translates to 2 or 3 rides on 7DMT, 1 or 2 on PP and 1 on Pooh. People would pay for that. Maybe it bounces you out of contention. But it would attract 500-1,000 people per day.

 

[BookGirl305]

q

 

[Regan117]

A couple of random thoughts:

- Christmas let me say something nice about the Christmas party- a couple of years ago, I was in town for a conference and got cut out of there about 2pm. Took me until 3 to check into my hotel and 4pm to hit the front gate at MK. I LOVED the fact that for a $75 ticket, I was good to go for 8 hours at the right 8 hours. I don't know if I would have paid $100 for that. I certainly would not have paid for a day ticket and then a night ticket, but for that night, the Christmas party was the right choice. All I did was ride the rides. No characters, no stuff- food and rides before 7, cookies and rides after 7.

- $69 seems to be the price point people will pay before saying no- desert parties, pirate cruises, extra hours, character breakfasts, reserved seating shows. And over and over, people continue to spend an entire park ticket admission price for a 13 -60 minute event. That's a massive no-brainer for Disney. As one person upthread said, for $276, they can buy an extra night at the hotel, an additional day on each ticket, meals, or they can buy 4 tickets for cupcakes and a place to stand for a show.

- everyone has a different reference in mind on what a bargain constitutes. This year (2016) I went to Disney and went to Europe- because I traveled value-style to both. Others would consider each trip too expensive and once in a lifetime trips. I did them both in one year using the same budgeted money. It's all in what is more important to you. For the price of a dessert party, I can buy a night in a European hotel. For me, that's more important. YMMV.

But some of us can pay for that extra night in the hotel or an extra day on a ticket AND attend the EMM/dessert party/etc. Some of us can go to both Europe AND Disney in the same year, and not need to budget for it or sacrifice anything. I get it. I spent my years as a college student on a budget. But I didn't get angry at people who could afford to do more things than I could. Or even if they can afford it, but don't feel it's worthwhile, that's fine. Ultimately, it's up to us to decide what's right for us and what we each can individually afford. Can I afford a ticket, 4 cupcakes and a place to stand for the show? Sure. But my perspective is why stand when I can have a table waiting for me? Why go buy the cupcakes when someone will provide them for me? That's just how WE see it. I don't begrudge anyone for thinking anything is overpriced or a waste of money. But it's OUR money. No one is taking anything away from you. Your trip is only as enjoyable as YOU choose to make it. You're only as happy as YOU choose to be. Stop making people feel bad about spending the money on these events. Some of us like them and we are just as entitled to like them as you are to think they're dumb.

 

[BookGirl305]

q.

 

[Paigesmom2013]

My two cents is that if you plan right and stay on property, you don't really need EMM to have a good time. You can use your FP on the headliners and do ok. Plus, I can wait 5-10 minutes in a Fastpass line for a ride. That's fine. It's a theme park. I'm not making a pit stop at the Indy 500. What I try to tell friends planning a trip is to do a couple days at MK. I guess for people who can't, EMM is a good idea.

 

[Regan117]

Wow.
Pretty surprised by the above poster. I never criticized anyone for doing extra events, simply commented that I found it interesting that some of the very people who say Disney is too expensive are the same people who buy all these extras (so perception is skewed in my mind), also said I liked (and paid for) the Christmas party, that there seems to be a price point that people find comfortable and that value was a perception.
How you pulled out of that that I was angry or bitter or thought you were dumb...not sure. But obviously tempers are flaring, so I'm out. Have a good night.

I didn't pull out that you were angry or bitter. I used your post as an example based on all of the other comments in this post.

The example you used was a value budget for your Disney trip so you could also go to Europe. My point was that not all of us have to cut back to do both. So maybe don't judge how people spend their own money and if you don't like these events just don't pay for them.

Everyone takes everything Disney does so personally, like Disney owes it to them to be fair. No, they don't owe you anything. They're in business to make money. And every time I see one of these events I say, "take my money please".

 

[Regan117]

My two cents is that if you plan right and stay on property, you don't really need EMM to have a good time. You can use your FP on the headliners and do ok. Plus, I can wait 5-10 minutes in a Fastpass line for a ride. That's fine. It's a theme park. I'm not making a pit stop at the Indy 500. What I try to tell friends planning a trip is to do a couple days at MK. I guess for people who can't, EMM is a good idea.

You sure can. But I'd rather pay for the convenience. I'm basically paying for more fast passes, and I'm ok with that.

 

[Planogirl]

You sure can. But I'd rather pay for the convenience. I'm basically paying for more fast passes, and I'm ok with that.

I think that there are two groups of people that might question some of this. There are those who just simply can't afford so many of the add-ons and worry that some of this will cut into what they have come to expect at WDW. Then there are those who can afford it but just don't see the value in potentially paying extra for something that used to be part of the overall experience.

I can understand both feelings. That doesn't make those who can afford the upsells and find value in them bad people but it is true that if no one would pay for these extras then Disney wouldn't likely keep creating them. It's also true that no one is forced to buy any of this but if some things that were formerly part of a day's admission fee becomes upsells then it does get tiresome.

Besides many people don't like to hyperplan what is supposed to be a vacation. In my opinion some planning is fine and even fun but planning every second of the day isn't for everyone.

 

[JimmyV]

It's also true that no one is forced to buy any of this but if some things that were formerly part of a day's admission fee becomes upsells then it does get tiresome.

So true. Let's look at the crescendo of changes that has caused the frustration.

• EMHs reduced in both hours and number of times per week.
• Introduction of FP+ with tiering and the reduction in number of times that savvy users (which includes many here) can get FPs for headliners.
• Reduced overall hours.
• Increased admission prices
• Increased prices for Party tickets
• Loss of prime viewing spots for fireworks and parades

In the aggregate, people are paying more and getting less. To fill these gaps, Disney has decided to sell back to the customer much of what has been lost. You can buy more hours, more quasi-FPs and prime viewing areas. And obviously some people are doing so. But where does it end? As an extreme example, (or at least I hope it is extreme), Disney could institute a Super Extra Hours Pass that allows 5,000 people exclusive access to the MK from 8:00 a.m. - 11:00 a.m. and then again from 7:00 p.m. - midnight with "regular" guests having access to the park limited to 11:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m.. And they could sell this ticket for $500 per day. And certain people would buy it. I am guessing that even some of the people who currently love the idea of EMM would move over to the side of "they've gone too far." Well, some of us are already there. And the concern is that Disney only knows one thing...sales numbers. People stayed away from the Late Night money grab and it ended. And if people stay away from EMM it too will end. And maybe we will get our "paid for" hours back. And maybe even our old EMH schedule instead of the crumbs that we get now.

I really don't think that EMM would raise a single eyebrow if it weren't for the things set out in the bulletpoints above. But when prices go up, hours go down, and we have to pay almost $300 for a family of four to repair the erosion, nerves will be rubbed raw.

 

[Regan117]

I think that there are two groups of people that might question some of this. There are those who just simply can't afford so many of the add-ons and worry that some of this will cut into what they have come to expect at WDW. Then there are those who can afford it but just don't see the value in potentially paying extra for something that used to be part of the overall experience.

I can understand both feelings. That doesn't make those who can afford the upsells and find value in them bad people but it is true that if no one would pay for these extras then Disney wouldn't likely keep creating them. It's also true that no one is forced to buy any of this but if some things that were formerly part of a day's admission fee becomes upsells then it does get tiresome.

Besides many people don't like to hyperplan what is supposed to be a vacation. In my opinion some planning is fine and even fun but planning every second of the day isn't for everyone.

I don't like to hyper plan my vacations either, which is another reason EMM is just delightful. My 3 kids are small. They're awake early and there aren't a lot of things they can ride in other parks besides MK. We pay that much for breakfast anyway. I'd much rather get the breakfast, utilize the god awful early hours they're already awake, and get the must have rides out of the way early. My son threw a tantrum last time we were in MK a couple weeks ago because he didn't understand we simply couldn't just get back on SDMT. Same for TSMM. He's 3...he just wanted to ride the Buzz ride again.

This makes his experience better and allows us to utilize more time relaxing at our very expensive resort. You talk about too much planning but this actually is more relaxing and requires LESS planning because now they can get their fill of the rides, not be in crowded parks, and get to enjoy the resort. After a nice nap we are free to have dinner in the evening and use some fast passes in another park. All around winning.

I'm not going to stop paying for these experiences. We like them, and if that isn't fair to others, oh well. Every other park charges for "fast pass" types of experiences and it's a LOT more than $69/$59 (Universal, Hershey, Sesame Place). I have no problem with paying more for a better overall experience.

 

[whiporee]

So true. Let's look at the crescendo of changes that has caused the frustration.

• EMHs reduced in both hours and number of times per week.
• Introduction of FP+ with tiering and the reduction in number of times that savvy users (which includes many here) can get FPs for headliners.
• Reduced overall hours.
• Increased admission prices
• Increased prices for Party tickets
• Loss of prime viewing spots for fireworks and parades

In the aggregate, people are paying more and getting less. To fill these gaps, Disney has decided to sell back to the customer much of what has been lost. You can buy more hours, more quasi-FPs and prime viewing areas. And obviously some people are doing so. But where does it end? As an extreme example, (or at least I hope it is extreme), Disney could institute a Super Extra Hours Pass that allows 5,000 people exclusive access to the MK from 8:00 a.m. - 11:00 a.m. and then again from 7:00 p.m. - midnight with "regular" guests having access to the park limited to 11:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m.. And they could sell this ticket for $500 per day. And certain people would buy it. I am guessing that even some of the people who currently love the idea of EMM would move over to the side of "they've gone too far." Well, some of us are already there. And the concern is that Disney only knows one thing...sales numbers. People stayed away from the Late Night money grab and it ended. And if people stay away from EMM it too will end. And maybe we will get our "paid for" hours back. And maybe even our old EMH schedule instead of the crumbs that we get now.

I really don't think that EMM would raise a single eyebrow if it weren't for the things set out in the bulletpoints above. But when prices go up, hours go down, and we have to pay almost $300 for a family of four to repair the erosion, nerves will be rubbed raw.

But what you're not acknowledging -- or you believe differently -- is the inevitability of almost all the things you've mentioned.

1) I thought we'd shown that EMHs haven't actually been reduced by a significant amount.
2) I know tiering sucks, but it's a capacity issues at Epcot and DHS. If they didn't make people choose between the top tier rides, they would not have capacity to allow everyone who wanted a FP to ride them. It's not cruelty, it's logistics. And the point of FP+ was to take away the savvy users ability to get more FPs than the ordinary visitor. If nothing else, FP+ makes it so everyone at least as a degree of equal opportunity for rides without having to be there at Rope Drop. Because WDW does not like chaos, and RD has become chaotic. Were the system still FP-, it would be even moreso. When you have a small minority of visitors getting a majority of opportunity, overall guest satisfaction drops. WDW would rather sacrifice the magnificent day for a few in order to give the rest of the crown a good one. And as the internet and touring plans and strategies become more common and commonplace, the battle for those limited opportunities would become even greater. As much as we may not like it, rides (and FPs) are a zero-sum game. There are only so many spots in a day. if you let a minority of people get more than their share of those opportunities, other people are denied them. WDW prefers not to operate that way.
3) Like I said in the other thread, i think this is an attempt to take pressure off MK. And, like has been pointed out in the other thread, overall WDW hours increased this year. maybe not where we'd like them to increase, but the fact is they increased.
4) and 5) In any high demand situation -- and park admission is high demand -- prices go up. Always.
Imagine what they could charge for a Pokeman Go download now that the entire nation is hooked on it.
6) I think this is back to reducing the effect of the savvy visitor. It's not good for WDW for people to stake out viewing spots early. They aren't spending money, and they're clogging up the walkways. In addition, it causes the perception that the only way to get a good spot is to waste your time getting a good spot, which breed dissatisfaction. WDW would greatly prefer everyone go about their business, find a spot 15 minutes before the show begins and watch it then. But savvy visitors make that an impossibility. So WDW offers the chance to pay in order to assure yourself a good view without having to give up a decent percentage of your park time to do it.

To me, all of the things listed are attempts to deal with the crowds and the internet. i don't think either of them is going away any time soon.

 

[LiveYourLife]

This makes his experience better and allows us to utilize more time relaxing at our very expensive resort.

You had a solid case up until this.