Boston Globe Article: WDW trip planning

[Cormoran]

This is an interesting article that appeared in the Boston Globe about planning a WDW vacation. It is obvious that the author is a DisBoard follower and a Disney Fan. I thought it was a well balanced article about what’s needed to plan a WDW vacation. I would recommend it to anyone who was planning a vacation.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine...BIMqxyMM6qJ/story.html?event=event25#comments

For me, however, I found the reader feedback the most interesting part of the whole piece. On these boards, there are an awful lot of mega vacation planners who love being able to reserve their ADR’s and Attractions before they arrive in the parks. But it appeared to me, that most of the readers found the level of planning required for a Disney vacation to be too much.

I know that a lot of people on the boards are happy with the level of planning required for a Disney vacation. But are the comments following this article more indicative of how the general public views a WDW vacation?

 

[ArwenMarie]

When I talk to people IRL, most people have one opinion of WDW...."Too many lines! I hate lines! I don't want to stand in lines!"

Whether they have been there yet, or not, that is the image they have of WDW. And they are right IMO.

I think that FP+ is sort of an answer for these folks. Having three reserved rides, and in some cases, sort of forcing them to do even a minimal amount of planning, can help improve their experience there.

On the other hand, I think that three rides, even for these types of visitors, is way too low. When they are done with those three, and see the lines at the rest of the attractions, and wait in some of them, I don't think they will walk away that impressed.

I guess it all comes back to ride capacity. I think if they could give everyone 5 prebooked rides (desirable rides, not Captain EO), I do think that most people would be satisfied with that, after you add in a parade or a show or some second-tier attractions, characters etc. Three rides is just too low, whether you are a return customer or a first-timer. But that would involve building more rides and/or limiting attendance, neither of which is going to happen.

Anyway, back to your question! I think that the general public thinks Lines! when they think of WDW and they go because they think it's something nice to do with their kids. The ones who keep going back take the time to learn to hack WDW to make it fun for them.

 

[SmithSmith]

About a third of those comments were from people who clearly despise Disney. At least 2 of them compared WDW to "hell". I really don't think a lot of those comments could be construed as anti-FP+... more like anti-Disney. So I would take what's said there with a HUGE grain of salt.

 

[mshanson3121]

Agree. Most of the comments were from people who obviously hate Disney - and most I would bet have never been. Do some people avoid Disney because of all the planning it requires? Yes, I'm sure there are. Let's face it - Disney is not relaxing. And many people want to go on vacation for relaxation, so more power to them. Disney is not the place for them. And I would even agree that your family can have a wonderful vacation elsewhere, at other theme parks for a fraction of the cost. We've done it, year after year. But I admit that there's just something about Disney.... and those who have never been, will never get it.

But I do agree a bit with the sentiment of "over-planning". Disney has sort of killed the magic and spontaneity. It's hard to stop and smell the roses when you have a reservation that has to be met for a ride that you will never get on, otherwise.

 

[Cormoran]

But I do agree a bit with the sentiment of "over-planning". Disney has sort of killed the magic and spontaneity. It's hard to stop and smell the roses when you have a reservation that has to be met for a ride that you will never get on, otherwise.

So, we are obviously big Disney fans on these boards. I agree that there were some throw away comments about hating Disney, that followed the Globe article. But there were also comments from people who were planning their visits or had already booked their vacation. These were the comments that I found interesting, because they addressed the level of planning required. I really think some of the commentators were surprised by this level of planning.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But there were also comments from people who were planning their visits or had already booked their vacation. These were the comments that I found interesting, because they addressed the level of planning required. I really think some of the commentators were surprised by this level of planning.

These were also the comments I took note of, and IME these comments were very similar to the comments that my friends came to me with when they were totally overwhelmed by the planning and MDE and asked for my help.

I can't make the leap to the entire general public feeling this way, but the people I've come across who want to go to Disney, but who don't *love* it like DISers do, have had similar responses.

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

Definitely an interesting article. It highlights the extreme level of planning and lack of spontaneity associated with WDW and the new FP+ system. The comments were a wide range. If you overlook the "I hate Disney" comments and focus on the others- it's a common thread of the *too much over-planning* sentiment shared by many DISers.

I know whenever I mention to people about what's needed to have a successful WDW trip these days, they're floored by the extent to which Disney has taken it. Friends of ours who are Florida residents, haven't been to WDW in many years and wanted to go back this May- coinciding with our trip. Their not sure yet exactly who in their family will be going, so therefore haven't bought their tickets yet. For them, as with many others, they will most likely finalize their plans very last minute because it's unavoidable. When we shared with them the details of FP+ and all it entails, their reaction was not one of joy and excitement.

 

[Shaden]

Definitely an interesting article. It highlights the extreme level of planning and lack of spontaneity associated with WDW and the new FP+ system. The comments were a wide range. If you overlook the "I hate Disney" comments and focus on the others- it's a common thread of the *too much over-planning* sentiment shared by many DISers.

I know whenever I mention to people about what's needed to have a successful WDW trip these days, they're floored by the extent to which Disney has taken it. Friends of ours who are Florida residents, haven't been to WDW in many years and wanted to go back this May- coinciding with our trip. Their not sure yet exactly who in their family will be going, so therefore haven't bought their tickets yet. For them, as with many others, they will most likely finalize their plans very last minute because it's unavoidable. When we shared with them the details of FP+ and all it entails, their reaction was not one of joy and excitement.

So, we are obviously big Disney fans on these boards. I agree that there were some throw away comments about hating Disney, that followed the Globe article. But there were also comments from people who were planning their visits or had already booked their vacation. These were the comments that I found interesting, because they addressed the level of planning required. I really think some of the commentators were surprised by this level of planning.

These were also the comments I took note of, and IME these comments were very similar to the comments that my friends came to me with when they were totally overwhelmed by the planning and MDE and asked for my help.

I can't make the leap to the entire general public feeling this way, but the people I've come across who want to go to Disney, but who don't *love* it like DISers do, have had similar responses.

Shhhhhh, guys, you are ruining the narrative that this planning is super easy and doesn't increase the stress level of a trip or that FP+ hasn't added a level to the planning which just makes it too detailed. Oh and first timers will LOVE this right ? Because its only a vocal minority here on the boards, where people only voice their complaints, never anything positive, that people don't like the planning involved with FP+. Everyone else will or does love it !

Seriously though, interesting article, and very interesting responses, I wonder if that is more "real world" for some of the people who constantly tell others on the boards that all the negativity is undeserved or isn't reflective of the majority of people, or is only because people are more likely to complain, etc etc. I mean, I am sure its not, nothing would be, Disney is just always fantastic and everyone should love everything and stuff.

Have mentioned this before but had an experience which reflects these responses, had a friend ask me about going to WDW, told her it is awesome, she should totally do it blah blah blah, I do love me some WDW after all. Anyway so she starts asking about what she needs to do and I am excitedly going over it, answering questions, giving her the low down on Booking, differences between on and off site, crowd calendars, FP+ the whole deal. All very positive, literally nothing negative said, this is someone who could join our WDW adventuring crew. And she just stopped me, and told me she had no intention of doing that much planning for a trip. Done. Her family will not be going to wdw.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I've stopped talking up Disney vacations to friends and family. We still enjoy it, but I don't want to vouch for it anymore with FPP and the ever increasing crowds. Especially if they say things like my husband hates crowds, we hate standing on line (who doesn't!), etc.

 

[Jennytoon]

I know that a lot of people on the boards are happy with the level of planning required for a Disney vacation. But are the comments following this article more indicative of how the general public views a WDW vacation?

My father was unhappy with the level of planning required for a Disneyworld vacation in 1988. Yet, he acknowledged then and acknowledges now that we would have done less without it.

These were also the comments I took note of, and IME these comments were very similar to the comments that my friends came to me with when they were totally overwhelmed by the planning and MDE and asked for my help.

I can't make the leap to the entire general public feeling this way, but the people I've come across who want to go to Disney, but who don't *love* it like DISers do, have had similar responses.

I truly think what articles like this and MyMagic+ have done is not to increase the level of planning required for a Disneyworld vacation. I truly believe that it *is* possible to still go to Disneyworld and have a good time without *any* advance planning at all. It always was. The trade-off is obvious -- if you go without planning you will be more subject to the constraints of park conditions when you arrive then the person who planned in advance. Whatever the SB line happens to be, you will wait in it if you can't score a sdfp. Under FP- if the return time was 8 PM because you didn't get to the park until noon and you didn't want to stay that long, your choice was ride standby or skip it. If there are no walk-ups or same-day ADRs at the restaurant you wanted to eat at, you will have to eat somewhere else. This was true when I went in 1988 & 1997 in the pre-any-FP era, and also in 2009, 2011, and 2013 in the FP- era. Although I have not (yet) been in the FP+ era, I don't believe the fundamental truth of these statements has changed -- the penalty for not planning in advance is the potential to have to wait in longer lines (attractions) or have some options completely unavailable (dining). Even a "simple" plan to manage crowds and lines by going at rope drop is still a plan -- and by the way, it's one that still by all reports works even for the visitor that has purchased their ticket the night before.

I think what MM+ and all the publicity and information around it has done, is to expose to a wider audience the truth that has always been there -- DisneyWorld is a destination where a significant amount of effort put into planning in advance has the potential to greatly improve the vacation experience. It has always been the case that knowledge about what attractions were the most popular, and utilizing that knowledge in a plan, was necessary to experience them with minimal wait. It has always been the case that knowledge about how lines tend to build over the course of the day was beneficial and could be used to one's advantage by planning. However in the past, I think more (not all, more) first-timers were less aware of how planning could affect their experience. MM+ makes newly aware people feel that they have to schedule FP+ 30 or 60 days in advance if they want to get on any good rides without a long wait. Based on what I've seen posted here, that feeling does not generally reflect reality. Note I do not say never true or that this applies to every headliner ride -- please do not nitpick the point I am trying to make with the exception case.

I wonder how much of the confusion and overwhelmed feeling of first-timers that is cited by Angel Ariel and others would be highly alleviated if it were made more clear to first time visitors that they actually do not need to make any ADRs at all or schedule any FP+ in advance. Certainly, that they don't need to schedule FP+ for every single day of their trip in advance. I wonder how many would be more ready to accept and explore the ability to book FP+ as a tool that offers positive value, if it were not presented so frequently in the media and by Disney as a tool that must be used to ensure the success of a vacation. If they felt they could say "maybe I'll give that a try" instead of "ugh, and I have to figure out how to do that."

But I do agree a bit with the sentiment of "over-planning". Disney has sort of killed the magic and spontaneity. It's hard to stop and smell the roses when you have a reservation that has to be met for a ride that you will never get on, otherwise.

mshanson3121, I'm not picking on you, it's just that I think you've expressed so perfectly the mindset I feel that the overwhelmed first-timer must have. I do question though some of the accuracy of your statement:

1) Is it really true that you will never get on the ride otherwise? Or is it just that you will have to take the trade-off of waiting in line?
2) Assuming you took the trade-off of waiting in line -- how easy is it to stop and smell the roses from a queue?

I suspect you know that in most cases the answer to #1 is yes, you can get on the ride by waiting in line. I wonder if many first timers though, overwhelmed by MDE and told they need to schedule FP+, forget that they can always make that choice instead if they feel it is more suitable to their vacation style. And you know, by most reports I've seen the standby lines for the big headliners have actually decreased somewhat since FP+, making those rides more available without any plan at all than they were before.

 

[Cormoran]

I have adopted of policy of don't ask don't tell. Unless I am asked a direct question about a WDW vacation, I keep my mouth shut. Then if I'm asked a question, I avoid giving opinions. I think this is a great article for anyone who is planning to visit the parks. I think it will tell people what they need to know and then they can decide if a Disney vacation is right for them.

I'm wondering how the average guest is responding to MDE and FP+. I remember several months ago that the MB's for some guests weren't allowing them to enter the park. Guests were stuck standing in long lines, and Disney CM's started selling bottled water to the guests in line. Then last week they had another problem and people couldn't use their MB's for charging. But in response to this, Disney comped meals. Here's the thread:

http://www.disboards.com/threads/major-magic-band-failure.3391617/

It seems that Disney is working harder at guest recovery when situations with MDE and FP+ arise. But I wonder if they will be able to take this a step further by convincing guests (not Disboarders) that their new system is great. I get the feeling that they're trying to convince guests that all of this planning builds anticipation for an upcoming trip. I think that's true for some people , but not for me.

 

[Cormoran]

My father was unhappy with the level of planning required for a Disneyworld vacation in 1988. Yet, he acknowledged then and acknowledges now that we would have done less without it.



I truly think what articles like this and MyMagic+ have done is not to increase the level of planning required for a Disneyworld vacation. I truly believe that it *is* possible to still go to Disneyworld and have a good time without *any* advance planning at all. It always was. The trade-off is obvious -- if you go without planning you will be more subject to the constraints of park conditions when you arrive then the person who planned in advance. Whatever the SB line happens to be, you will wait in it if you can't score a sdfp. Under FP- if the return time was 8 PM because you didn't get to the park until noon and you didn't want to stay that long, your choice was ride standby or skip it. If there are no walk-ups or same-day ADRs at the restaurant you wanted to eat at, you will have to eat somewhere else. This was true when I went in 1988 & 1997 in the pre-any-FP era, and also in 2009, 2011, and 2013 in the FP- era. Although I have not (yet) been in the FP+ era, I don't believe the fundamental truth of these statements has changed -- the penalty for not planning in advance is the potential to have to wait in longer lines (attractions) or have some options completely unavailable (dining). Even a "simple" plan to manage crowds and lines by going at rope drop is still a plan -- and by the way, it's one that still by all reports works even for the visitor that has purchased their ticket the night before.

I think what MM+ and all the publicity and information around it has done, is to expose to a wider audience the truth that has always been there -- DisneyWorld is a destination where a significant amount of effort put into planning in advance has the potential to greatly improve the vacation experience. It has always been the case that knowledge about what attractions were the most popular, and utilizing that knowledge in a plan, was necessary to experience them with minimal wait. It has always been the case that knowledge about how lines tend to build over the course of the day was beneficial and could be used to one's advantage by planning. However in the past, I think more (not all, more) first-timers were less aware of how planning could affect their experience. MM+ makes newly aware people feel that they have to schedule FP+ 30 or 60 days in advance if they want to get on any good rides without a long wait. Based on what I've seen posted here, that feeling does not generally reflect reality. Note I do not say never true or that this applies to every headliner ride -- please do not nitpick the point I am trying to make with the exception case.

I wonder how much of the confusion and overwhelmed feeling of first-timers that is cited by Angel Ariel and others would be highly alleviated if it were made more clear to first time visitors that they actually do not need to make any ADRs at all or schedule any FP+ in advance. Certainly, that they don't need to schedule FP+ for every single day of their trip in advance. I wonder how many would be more ready to accept and explore the ability to book FP+ as a tool that offers positive value, if it were not presented so frequently in the media and by Disney as a tool that must be used to ensure the success of a vacation. If they felt they could say "maybe I'll give that a try" instead of "ugh, and I have to figure out how to do that."



mshanson3121, I'm not picking on you, it's just that I think you've expressed so perfectly the mindset I feel that the overwhelmed first-timer must have. I do question though some of the accuracy of your statement:

1) Is it really true that you will never get on the ride otherwise? Or is it just that you will have to take the trade-off of waiting in line?
2) Assuming you took the trade-off of waiting in line -- how easy is it to stop and smell the roses from a queue?

I suspect you know that in most cases the answer to #1 is yes, you can get on the ride by waiting in line. I wonder if many first timers though, overwhelmed by MDE and told they need to schedule FP+, forget that they can always make that choice instead if they feel it is more suitable to their vacation style. And you know, by most reports I've seen the standby lines for the big headliners have actually decreased somewhat since FP+, making those rides more available without any plan at all than they were before.

You are very articulate and no, all of this planning is not required.

But I remember my first trip to WDW that I booked through Disney on the telephone. The CM was telling me about the"not to be missed" attractions and table service restaurants. So a first time guest may already have the expectation of experiencing certain popular attractions and dining based on what a CM told them. I think it would be very disappointing if it were my first time and I could not get FP+ reservations for the most popular attractions. Additionally, I think guests staying off site might not even be aware of FP+ and the ADR reservation system.
No, planning is not required, but If you want to ride: Soarin', TT, TSMM, RNR, TOT, Space, Splash, BTMRR without waiting in a long SB line, advance planning is required.

 

[minnie mum]

I know that a lot of people on the boards are happy with the level of planning required for a Disney vacation. But are the comments following this article more indicative of how the general public views a WDW vacation?

Our family, friends and even casual acquaintances have always thought of me as the resident WDW cheerleader. But in the last few years that has changed. Like you, I pretty much keep my opinions to myself now. Because, while I don't hate Disney ( contrary to the opinions of some blinkered, narrow minded koolaid sippers), I am not enamoured of the changes that MDE and FP+ has wrought on our WDW vacations.

I can't speak for the general public. But in my tiny slice of the real world, the most common response from people who ask me about planning a WDW trip now is "Are you kidding me? I'm not spending that kind of money and that amount of time planning just for a trip to a glorified amusement park". And then a lot of them ask me if Universal is the same....

 

[mrzrich]

I think that article would make a first timers eyes glaze over.

 

[hoosll]

I thought the article was terrific. It was balanced by experiences from the past and expectations. The writer was knowledgeable and fair.

I still think the new system is designed to make it necessary for anyone to plan for 6-7 days at the parks to have a good experience. I also liked the strong message about the necessity of having a smart phone with all the apps to access. She has also summed up free dining and the dining plan perfectly!

My advice to first-timers has always been - WDW is not like any other park you have ever experienced - it's huge, most of the best rides are inside where you cannot see them unless you know they are there - the best restaurants are the ones with great theming, again without research you won't know which ones to visit without research. Buy a guide book so that you can find out about rides, meals and transportation around the parks.

 

[Jing]

I am a guide-book, travel-forum, documentary junkie when it come to going places. Disney helps me appear to be a functioning addict more so than other travel destinations.

I don't really go on and on about travel plans, but I am amazed at the negative reaction I get from colleagues regarding going to Disney. I have noticed the majority have girls, so maybe part of it is princess aversion. I know another chunk of it is money, others it's resentment of self-imposed obligation to take the kids, and for a smaller group it is the commercialism/"manufactured" destination aspect (because Sandals and similar at a beach resort or big cities aren't manufactured!?!?).

To each their own. How people decide to spend their vacation time effects me 0%.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Again, can't speak for anyone else, but the people who have spoken to me are aware that the preplanning isn't a requirement (either on their own, or because I have told them it isn't required). That said, none of them were comfortable with the potential trade offs for not doing so. So they did understand it wasn't necessary, but didn't want to risk the trade off, and overall felt it was overwhelming.

 

[mshanson3121]

mshanson3121, I'm not picking on you, it's just that I think you've expressed so perfectly the mindset I feel that the overwhelmed first-timer must have. I do question though some of the accuracy of your statement:

1) Is it really true that you will never get on the ride otherwise? Or is it just that you will have to take the trade-off of waiting in line?
2) Assuming you took the trade-off of waiting in line -- how easy is it to stop and smell the roses from a queue?

I suspect you know that in most cases the answer to #1 is yes, you can get on the ride by waiting in line. I wonder if many first timers though, overwhelmed by MDE and told they need to schedule FP+, forget that they can always make that choice instead if they feel it is more suitable to their vacation style. And you know, by most reports I've seen the standby lines for the big headliners have actually decreased somewhat since FP+, making those rides more available without any plan at all than they were before.

The answer to 1 isn't always yes. Some people may be able/willing to wait, many others won't/can't. So yes, there could be times where FP is the difference between getting on a ride or not for certain families. My husband would NEVER, in a million years, wait an hour or more in line for a ride. He just flat out would refuse. So... you have those type of people. Then there's those that have children that just can't wait in line. Or even the situation of, because they skipped FP and they've spent more time standing in line, waiting, unfortunately, they have to miss certain rides because they've run out of time, energy etc...

As for number 2, no, you're not going to smell the roses in the queue But my point was, when you don't have to be anywhere at a specific time, then it doesn't matter what detours etc... you take.

 

[mshanson3121]

My MIL who is going on the trip with us, is constantly amazed at the amount of planning that is going into this trip. She had no idea about the FP system etc... She has been several times before, but not in the last 5 or 6 years, and never with children. Special needs children at that. We are putting a lot of planning into this - to make sure that we are able to give our children the best trip possible - some of that means giving them some of those "extras" like BBB/CRT and Pirates League, which you just cannot do without pre-planning. It means planning FP to make sure they get on the rides that they will enjoy the most because there's no way in heck they can manage a 30+ minute wait in line. And even if we decided to skip FP+ and just use our DAS and wing it, even then we would be trying to strategically plan our rides so that we minimize the amount of walking they have to do. Standing around looking at a map does not work well with our daughter who would be trying to run away.

I love Disney. I have been before. I am a kid at heart. To me Disney isn't about the rides - I can get rides anywhere, for far cheaper. It's about the magic, the fantasy of the place, the shows and extra experiences that they will not get anywhere else. I have ALWAYS wanted to take my kids to Disney World, it's always been a dream of mine, and they are at their Disney prime right now - DD is huge into princesses, DS still has that fantasy, and they see the commercials on tv and jump up and down asking when can we go to Disney. They will love it. And yet... even now, with the house booked, with the tickets bought etc... I'll admit there are still times when I wonder if we're crazy, and a part of me that could probably be talked into canceling it all, part of me that knows a beach vacation would have been much simpler, cheaper and far more relaxing. Or, going to some other theme park where we could spend a day or two at the park, some place that would not require any planning and then we could just spend the rest of our time relaxing at a lake, beach etc... A trip where the most "planning" you have to do is booking your hotel/condo and that's it.

I can truly see both sides of it.

 

[Jennytoon]

The answer to 1 isn't always yes. Some people may be able/willing to wait, many others won't/can't. So yes, there could be times where FP is the difference between getting on a ride or not for certain families. My husband would NEVER, in a million years, wait an hour or more in line for a ride. He just flat out would refuse. So... you have those type of people. Then there's those that have children that just can't wait in line. Or even the situation of, because they skipped FP and they've spent more time standing in line, waiting, unfortunately, they have to miss certain rides because they've run out of time, energy etc...

But see, this is exactly the point I was trying to make (and note that I did say most cases).

In 1988, the solution for riding headliners given your husband's decision about personal vacation style that he is unwilling to wait more than an hour in line for a ride was to plan. For a first timer, this meant before arriving on Disney property, since it required reading guidebooks to understand what was required.

In 2011, the solution for this was still to plan -- although FP- was available, it would be untrue to state that all the features of FP- worked for everyone without any planning at all, even if there was (possibly) more flexibility to do that planning on the way to the park or reassess at various points during the day. And as a first timer ... if you wanted to understand how to plan, yep, do it before you arrived.

In 2015 ... yep, the best solution is still to plan. Before you arrive.​

So the question is, what happens when you don't plan ... ?

In 1988 ... maybe wait in a line, maybe get lucky, maybe skip it.

In 2011 ... maybe score a FP- that works with your desires, maybe wait in a line, maybe get lucky, maybe skip it.

In 2015 ... maybe score a SDFP that works with your desires, maybe wait in a line, maybe get lucky, maybe skip it.​

I'm not going to argue about SDFP availability for A&E, or TSMM. I have participated in the TSMM running of the bulls in the FP- days. These rides, which require the most planning in the FP+ era ... also required the most planning in the FP- era. And for most other rides, I see enough posts of reasonable SDFP availability (or even the night before) to convince me that in the absence of advance planning it's not so different from FP- that it doesn't work better for just as many people as it works less well for.