Boston Globe Article: WDW trip planning

[volfan1978]

I have some friends who are taking their families in June...I've tried to tell them that they're already way behind on planning, but they insist that they're fine "winging it".

When they return and they complain about having to wait for two hours so their princesses could meet Anna and Elsa, I'm going to have to fight hard against the urge to be "I told you so" guy...

 

[mesaboy2]

OK, I'll take a stab at it and suggest that like so many other things, spontaneity is in the eye of the beholder ... and perhaps the wall here is between quantity and quality ... that's not exactly it, but hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Group 1 spends 6 hours in the park with 3 FP planned. They spend a total of 1 hr in transit to / in line for / waiting for FP. In the remaining 5 hours (non-consecutive time), Group 1 makes roughly two spontaneous decisions about what to ride / where to go in each hour. Some of these may have factors associated with general location "I'll spontaneously choose a ride in Tomorrowland because I want to be in the area for an overall park logistics reason that may include FP+", but I think it's still fair to call these decisions spontaneous because those kinds of factors crop up all the time, including with FP- planning.

Group 2 spends 6 hours in the park with no FP planned (we'll say they're there in 1997). To ride the same rides as Group 1, they spend a total of 3 hours in line. Their per hour rate of spontaneous decisions is otherwise similar, except that they only have a total of 6 (as opposed to 10) spontaneous decisions made.

Group 3 spends 6 hours in the park in the FP- era. Because they are riding major headliners, we will assume that all their return times are 1-2 hours in the future (for simplicity, and not an unrealistic assumption). They spend the same 1 hr transit to / in line for / obtaining their FP-. They have the same 10 other spontaneous experiences as Group 1.

I think most people would argue that Group 2 has a completely spontaneous experience, but could also see how the people in Group 2 might have thought that Group 1's experience is more spontaneous as it allows more opportunities for spontaneous decisions even though part of the day is planned.

I think most people would also agree that Group 3 has spontaneously made all their decisions whereas Group 1 has not. For some people this means that Group 3 has unequivocally had a more spontaneous experience, as an external observer. However, I think there are a significant body of people who, as the participant, would say that the Group 1 experience feels more spontaneous to them than the Group 3 experience. These are the people (and I can be one of them so this is not a statement made to be negative) who can't just "Let It Go". While they are waiting out their first FP- window and doing their first set of spontaneous things, they are thinking about and weighing the various options for what FP- to get after they use the first one. This is not a choice. This is the way their brains work. While they are waiting out their second FP- window, they are, at least part of the time and at least partly consciously, planning out what to do after the second FP- is used. For these people, the fact of having the FP+ rides already set allows them to feel the spontaneity that applies to the rest of the decisions, instead of feeling that even when choosing things on the spur of the moment part of their brain is busy making plans, backup plans, and backup plans to the backup plans.

Okay. I think I've digested this, but using so many words to explain how some might feel more spontaneous with FP+ is not a good sign.

I've bolded some portions of your post pertaining to, I think, the people you suggest who would consider FP+ spontaneous. Aren't these people innately unspontaneous? And if so, is that not a poor sample group to judge what spontaneity is? (Please don't these take the questions negatively, I don't mean them that way.)

I'm a planner by nature, in some ways at least like you. I'm not a very spontaneous person most of the time--people who know me personally would be shouting "Amen!" right now if they read this. I often play the long game. But I can be spontaneous--just last month at Universal I asked the family "which park?" while on the bus to...the parks. Granted Universal is a different animal in important ways affecting spontaneity (the two parks are literally next to each other), but my point remains the same. Because of FP+, it is harder to do that at WDW these days without losing something, maybe it's the chance to ride Splash without waiting 90 minutes in July. FP+ reduces spontaneity ipso facto by planning out more of your days--and I don't think the point of view of a group of hard-wired planners changes that. I have nothing against that point of view, I just don't understand it and certainly don't share it.

FP+ is many things good, bad, and indifferent. I completely agree it works great for many and not so well for many others. In certain circumstances it works great, in others not so much. But I still cannot fathom how it enables spontaneity. I do appreciate the attempt though.

 

[kmoore7]

If I focused in high school like I focus on planning a Disney World vacation, you would all be working for me right now. I actually enjoy all the work and planning that goes into it. I drank the Disney koolaid after my first visit,so I have no room to complain. Can't go there enough. I know families who went once and hated every minute. To each his own. I know it's a couple years till my next trip,but here I am,talking Disney. But hey,this site is what tides me over till my next trip

 

[Cormoran]

I think that article would make a first timers eyes glaze over.

Agreed, but I don't think it's the article that's responsible for the effect, it's the amount of pre planning Disney recommends so that you can maximize your WDW vacation.

 

[Cormoran]

This spontaneity concept has come up before recently, but I don't buy it because I don't understand it. I would not mind an explanation that makes sense to me, but I haven't seen one yet. The whole FP+ concept runs almost completely contrary to what I've always thought of as spontaneity.

That's because in the Wired propaganda piece Tom Staggs said, “It lets people’s vacations unfold naturally,” Staggs says. “The ability to plan and personalize has given way to spontaneity.” IMO the biggest load of garbage ever used to describe FP+

 

[mom2rtk]

That's because in the Wired propaganda piece Tom Staggs said, “It lets people’s vacations unfold naturally,” Staggs says. “The ability to plan and personalize has given way to spontaneity.” IMO the biggest load of garbage ever used to describe FP+

My mind is still sending all sorts of "this does not compute" signals in response to that statement.

Perhaps their "lock it in" ad campaign didn't quite garner the results they were after, so they decided to go the polar opposite direction?

 

[Cormoran]

So perhaps it's not necessarily the amount of planning one needs to do for a WDW vacation that bothers people, but that the planning is different from what they're used to. I have friends who plan international vacations, have stacks of guide books, etc (so they obviously aren't averse to planning), but they just wouldn't have the first clue how to plan a WDW vacation. I think MDE, magic bands, FP+, etc, all sounds complicated, but it's just because it's new to most people - in practice, I've found them to be very easy to use.

But when I've planned and gone on a trip to Europe, I make day before or same day restaurant reservations. I also like comparing making FP+ ride reservations to reserving a viewing time to see one famous painting. Really, I think WDW requires a lot more minute-by-minute planning than a WDW vacation.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Every vacation that involves sightseeing (as opposed to sitting by the beach or lake for a week) does involve planning.

I think the difference here is the name...."The WDW RESORT"

The use of the word resort has a specific connotation. It evokes a feeling of relaxation, of going at your own pace. When you book a week in Manhattan, you don't get that same feeling.

So they market it under the name Resort, but then there is all of this micro-planning that has to happen if you want to get the most out of your days there. I think this is what trips people up, especially first-timers.

It's easy to giggle at the people who walk into MK at 10:30 AM, grab a guide map and start looking around, like where do we go now. But why else would they think otherwise? They are at a resort! They booked their vacation online, possibly as a package, with hotel, food and tickets all together.

So I agree with the previous comments that at least FP+ encourages first-timers to do a bit of planning. The problem is still the number of FP+s that is distributed to each person IMO.

 

[Cormoran]

Every vacation that involves sightseeing (as opposed to sitting by the beach or lake for a week) does involve planning. Especially if you are visiting a city let's say, with a long list of attractions you want to see.

I think the difference here is the name...."The WDW RESORT"

The use of the word resort has a specific connotation. It evokes a feeling of relaxation, of going at your own pace. When you book a week in Manhattan, you don't get that same feeling.

So they market it under the name Resort, but then there is all of this micro-planning that has to happen if you want to get the most out of your days there. I think this is what trips people up, especially first-timers.

It's easy to giggle at the people who walk into MK at 10:30 AM, grab a guide map and start looking around, like where do we go now. But why else would they think otherwise? They are at a resort! They booked their vacation online, possibly as a package, with hotel, food and tickets all together.

So I agree with the previous comments that at least FP+ encourages first-timers to do a bit of planning. The problem is still the number of FP+s that is distributed to each person IMO.

But even when I've been to NY, I haven't planned a minute to minute itinerary. With FP+, I feel that I must plan at that level. I realize it is only for 3 attractions, but it's my perception of FP+.

I agree with you on the "Resort" connotation.

 

[ArwenMarie]

But even when I've been to NY, I haven't planned a minute to minute itinerary. With FP+, I feel that I must plan at that level. I realize it is only for 3 attractions, but it's my perception of FP+.

I agree with you on the "Resort" connotation.

I agree, it's not a minute-to-minute plan. But you do have pre-purchase tickets months in advance for some shows. You probably want to map out each day. There are other tickets you can pre-purchase, tours etc. You might want to grab dinner reservations before you go if you have specific restaurants in mind. DC, as another example, takes some planning too.

But I hear your point, you might say we are going to this museum on this day, but you aren't making a appointment down to the minute to look at a painting.

 

[SmithSmith]

But even when I've been to NY, I haven't planned a minute to minute itinerary. With FP+, I feel that I must plan at that level. I realize it is only for 3 attractions, but it's my perception of FP+.

I agree with you on the "Resort" connotation.

Could you explain how 3, hour long FP+ reservations makes you feel you need to schedule down to the minute?

 

[luvsJack]

And yet you can go without one ADR or one FP anf still have a great tIme. I kniw because I watched a bunch of kids do it. They all rode the headliners and met characters. A couple even went to see Anna and Elsa. They all rode the Mine Train and none had a fp for that. Out group had 3 FP each day but still had spontanity before, after and between.

If someone wants to go without all the preplanning, I would simply suggest they get there as close to rd as possible.

Now I plan to take my dgds in about 20 months. And I will plan ADRs as I want them to experience the character meals. And I will do Fp because their parents will want to ride headliners and be with the little ones when they meet Mickey so to make sure both happen I will Fp whatever seems needed.

If someone asked me I would explain the two scenarios of ways to do it and let them decide.

 

[han22735]

The planning for me is part of the excitement about Disney. Starting at 11 months and booking our resort, then trying to switch at 7 months, to having a spread sheet with all of our ADR's ready to go by at 6:00am 180 days out. Then the tweaking and changing based on different menus we research to get our "plan" down. So for me and my family this so called "stressful" planning is just part of the fun of WDW. I can't wait till July 11th for my FP selections.

 

[Cormoran]

The planning for me is part of the excitement about Disney. Starting at 11 months and booking our resort, then trying to switch at 7 months, to having a spread sheet with all of our ADR's ready to go by at 6:00am 180 days out. Then the tweaking and changing based on different menus we research to get our "plan" down. So for me and my family this so called "stressful" planning is just part of the fun of WDW. I can't wait till July 11th for my FP selections.

That's the funny thing about the planning. For you planning this far out builds your excitement, for me it increases my concerns. I have stopped making ADR's and I still had a hard time choosing a particular park on a particular day to make FP+ reservations 60 days before arrival. Right now, I am 3 weeks out from my next visit and I am finally getting excited about our vacation. But it's been so long since I made my FP+ reservations, I can't even remember what I reserved and my reasoning behind the choices I made. Even if I wanted to make changes now, I wouldn't for fear of losing what I've already reserved. I just don't like this level of pre planning.
.

 

[mshanson3121]

Every vacation that involves sightseeing (as opposed to sitting by the beach or lake for a week) does involve planning.

.

We have never done any planning outside of making our lodging reservation. That was it. We'd wake up in the morning, decide what we wanted to do. Sometimes we'd just get in the car and drive, see where we ended up. Eat wherever. It was great.

 

[JimmyV]

I thought the article was very fair. The author obviously spent a lot of times weeding through the debates/arguments on this Board. What I find really interesting are the comments. The people who made those comments might be:

• "wrong"
• Disney haters
• Ill-informed
• narrow minded

or a whole host of other adjectives. But irrespective of what and who they are, the Disney Company would be foolish to ignore such comments. That level of backlash cannot be good for a "game changing" technological rollout. And if nothing else, such comments should lay to rest any notion that the only people who hate FP+ are former FP- "abusers." I didn't get the sense that any of the people who wrote comments to that article fell into that camp. Perhaps a couple. But no more than that. The people who do not like the pre-planning aspect of FP+ come from many diverse camps.

 

[capegirl]

That's the funny thing about the planning. For you planning this far out builds your excitement, for me it increases my concerns. I have stopped making ADR's and I still had a hard time choosing a particular park on a particular day to make FP+ reservations 60 days before arrival. Right now, I am 3 weeks out from my next visit and I am finally getting excited about our vacation. But it's been so long since I made my FP+ reservations, I can't even remember what I reserved and my reasoning behind the choices I made. Even if I wanted to make changes now, I wouldn't for fear of losing what I've already reserved. I just don't like this level of pre planning.
.

Totally agree. I really had to trim ADR's on our park days, it was a royal pain to work around them, and impossible to change times. When you make ADR's months in advance it's like working with a blindfold on. Until the 60/30 day window opens you have no clue if FP+ times will conflict with ADR's.
We are going with extended family; and because there are very young children in our group I had to give top priority to FP+.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

But when I've planned and gone on a trip to Europe, I make day before or same day restaurant reservations. I also like comparing making FP+ ride reservations to reserving a viewing time to see one famous painting. Really, I think WDW requires a lot more minute-by-minute planning than a WDW vacation.

First, I agree with an above-poster's statement that it's not a 'minute-by-minute' plan since FP+ reservations are hour-long time slots. But I understand what you're saying with respect to FP+ involving a more detailed daily plan than what's involved in other vacations.

However, you don't HAVE to make ANY FP+ reservations (or ADRs, for that matter). With the exception of AK and special events at MK, the parks are generally open from early morning until night - plenty of time to see and do many different things on a standby basis. FP+ is just a way to do a few things with a minimal wait.

If you go to a museum in a city, they might only be open until 3 pm, and you have to know that you can't just show up at noon and see everything you want to see. I've stood in enough lines at the Louvre, Smithsonian museums, etc, to know that sometimes making the equivalent of FP+ reservations would be welcome. At least then I wouldn't be 10 rows back, trying to crane my neck to see the Mona Lisa.

 

[ArwenMarie]

We have never done any planning outside of making our lodging reservation. That was it. We'd wake up in the morning, decide what we wanted to do. Sometimes we'd just get in the car and drive, see where we ended up. Eat wherever. It was great.

I believe you but I'm just curious, where are you speaking of?

 

[Cormoran]

First, I agree with an above-poster's statement that it's not a 'minute-by-minute' plan since FP+ reservations are hour-long time slots. But I understand what you're saying with respect to FP+ involving a more detailed daily plan than what's involved in other vacations.

However, you don't HAVE to make ANY FP+ reservations (or ADRs, for that matter). With the exception of AK and special events at MK, the parks are generally open from early morning until night - plenty of time to see and do many different things on a standby basis. FP+ is just a way to do a few things with a minimal wait.

If you go to a museum in a city, they might only be open until 3 pm, and you have to know that you can't just show up at noon and see everything you want to see. I've stood in enough lines at the Louvre, Smithsonian museums, etc, to know that sometimes making the equivalent of FP+ reservations would be welcome. At least then I wouldn't be 10 rows back, trying to crane my neck to see the Mona Lisa.

First of all, no I don't have to make FP+ reservations, ADR's , or even go on vacation to WDW. No one is arguing with those points. But if I want to avoid some long SB lines it is in my best interest to make FP+ reservations.

Also, I have lined up for museum exhibits, but I have lined up or reserved a time to enter a specific exhibit that usually takes about 2 hours to explore. A FP+ attraction takes 10 minutes at most. Nothing longer. I'm sorry I used the term minute-by-minute, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel the amount of pre-planning for a WDW visit is ridiculous IMO.

According to the comments at the end of the article there are people who share my opinion.