Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[live4christp1]

Just wanted to mention on the topic of divorce, these are some very good books.....they are worth a read, if not for yourself, may give you some knowledge to help someone else down the road. We went through a very rough point several years ago and I really struggled with this topic.....God kept directing me back to a couple of verses.

Mark 10
2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Malachi 2
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Those bolded words seared my spirit, I decided that no matter what, the vow I took not only to my DH but the vow was also with the Lord and I would not break it. I knew I could not force DH to stay, but I would not be the one to pursue a divorce and that I would lean on God and trust Him to work out His plan for our lives. Well, God restored our marriage and our family and we are happier now than we have ever been.

The books I would like to recommend are - The Power of a Praying Wife by Stormie Omartian (ladies this is great for everyone, even if you have a wonderful marriage), A Marriage Without Regrets by Kay Arthur, and Staying Close by Dennis & Barbara Rainey.

Another good book by Kay Arthur is As Silver Refined by Kay Arthur......not really dealing with the divorce issue, but why we struggle with trials and conflicts. She compares our Christian walk to that of a silver smith, as the smith refines the silver he heats it up really hot and all the impurities rise to the surface, he skims these off, allows the silver to cool and repeats the process until when he looks into the vat of silver, he doesn't see any impurities only a perfect reflections of himself. That is what God does with trials and difficulties in our life......He is refining us until He can see a perfect reflection of Himself in our lives.

 

[LukenDC]

IMHall2000, I respect your right to your beliefs and we will have to agree to disagree. My beliefs are rooted in the fact that we live in a democracy, where we must co-exist with all different types of people whether we like them or not. I become quite concerned when I hear people suggesting that gays and lesbians should not participate in public discourse because their "lifestyle" is against God's word. Our society has many laws and freedoms, some of which correlate with the Bible, some of which do not. Homosexuals have just as much right to be visible as any other demographic group, including Christians.

People of faith have every right to shun homosexuals. However, in the past the Biblical arguements against homosexuality have been codified in civil laws governing even the most private, consensual adult conduct. While most of these laws have been overturned by the courts, conservative Christians are attempting to get them reinstated. I'm referring to sodomy laws, hospital visitation rights, contract law. Setting aside a class of people for discrimination is unacceptable in a democracy.

Lastly, I have heard many posters on this thread say that homosexuality is just like any other sin. If that is so, then why do religious right organizations make that the focal point of their fundraising operations? Groups like the Moral Majority and Traditional Values Coalition have demonized homosexuals with accusations that are so obscene and vulgar that I cannot repeat them on a family-friendly fourm. The right-wing political organizations are not focusing on overeating, lying, or even divorce, which has had an incredibly destructive influence on society. They are focusing on homosexuality and hurting millions of people in the process.

 

[Aidensmom]

We already have gone through a couple of homosexuality discussions/questions earlier on the thread. I feel the same suspiciousness as Luvthatduke on why/how this subject was brought up again. I like having this thread as a place to be able to peacefully discuss things, and we all know this one can get heated. I really don't want to see the thread closed. Perhaps it could be started as a new thread?

Lastly, I have heard many posters on this thread say that homosexuality is just like any other sin. If that is so, then why do religious right organizations make that the focal point of their fundraising operations? Groups like the Moral Majority and Traditional Values Coalition have demonized homosexuals with accusations that are so obscene and vulgar that I cannot repeat them on a family-friendly fourm. The right-wing political organizations are not focusing on overeating, lying, or even divorce, which has had an incredibly destructive influence on society. They are focusing on homosexuality and hurting millions of people in the process.

Yes, it is just like any other sin, that is why you have heard that many times on this thread. All Christians do not belong to right-wing political organizations. I, and many others here, cannot speak for the organizations to which you refer because I don't belong to them. I don't mean this to sound disrespectful in any way, but perhaps this thread may not be the best place to find that answer.

 

[ANNFMUR]

Hi,

I am a Roman Catholic. My faith and prayer have been a huge part of my life.
I am wondering did any of you pray about your trip to Disney.
It seems like such a fluff thing to pray about but it is very big to me. From financing to making the right choices. I guess since I pray about everything else why wouldn't I pray about this.

 

[disneyaggie]

We already have gone through a couple of homosexuality discussions/questions earlier on the thread. I feel the same suspiciousness as Luvthatduke on why/how this subject was brought up again. I like having this thread as a place to be able to peacefully discuss things, and we all know this one can get heated. I really don't want to see the thread closed. Perhaps it could be started as a new thread?



Yes, it is just like any other sin, that is why you have heard that many times on this thread. All Christians do not belong to right-wing political organizations. I, and many others here, cannot speak for the organizations to which you refer because I don't belong to them. I don't mean this to sound disrespectful in any way, but perhaps this thread may not be the best place to find that answer.

Well said. I totally agree.

 

[LukenDC]

[/QUOTE]Yes, it is just like any other sin, that is why you have heard that many times on this thread. All Christians do not belong to right-wing political organizations. I, and many others here, cannot speak for the organizations to which you refer because I don't belong to them. I don't mean this to sound disrespectful in any way, but perhaps this thread may not be the best place to find that answer.[/QUOTE]


Very true. I did not mean to generalize. Unfortunately, there are many people who believe that, for example, Pat Robertson speaks for all Christians. Such a misconception is very unhealthy for the Christian/non-Christian dialogue.

 

[llyolf]

Hi,

I am a Roman Catholic. My faith and prayer have been a huge part of my life.
I am wondering did any of you pray about your trip to Disney.
It seems like such a fluff thing to pray about but it is very big to me. From financing to making the right choices. I guess since I pray about everything else why wouldn't I pray about this.

yup... "Lord, Please let us go! Please let us go! Please let us go!"

Now it's "Lord let it come soon! pleeeeeze!!"

seriously.... we've prayed about our cruise... and the timing of getting our airfares so that we pay the least amount (still waiting on God and SW).

Later,
Paul

 

[lawman1986]

IMHall2000, I respect your right to your beliefs and we will have to agree to disagree. My beliefs are rooted in the fact that we live in a democracy, where we must co-exist with all different types of people whether we like them or not. I become quite concerned when I hear people suggesting that gays and lesbians should not participate in public discourse because their "lifestyle" is against God's word. Our society has many laws and freedoms, some of which correlate with the Bible, some of which do not. Homosexuals have just as much right to be visible as any other demographic group, including Christians.

People of faith have every right to shun homosexuals. However, in the past the Biblical arguements against homosexuality have been codified in civil laws governing even the most private, consensual adult conduct. While most of these laws have been overturned by the courts, conservative Christians are attempting to get them reinstated. I'm referring to sodomy laws, hospital visitation rights, contract law. Setting aside a class of people for discrimination is unacceptable in a democracy.

Lastly, I have heard many posters on this thread say that homosexuality is just like any other sin. If that is so, then why do religious right organizations make that the focal point of their fundraising operations? Groups like the Moral Majority and Traditional Values Coalition have demonized homosexuals with accusations that are so obscene and vulgar that I cannot repeat them on a family-friendly fourm. The right-wing political organizations are not focusing on overeating, lying, or even divorce, which has had an incredibly destructive influence on society. They are focusing on homosexuality and hurting millions of people in the process.

no one here is saying all this, you seem to be reacting to something else. certainly noone has said gays shouldnt participate in public discourse. you seem to be doing alot of projection here. calm down. hey this is just a discussion. a topic like any other and many have been discussed here, looking over the different pages of postings.

 

[ANNFMUR]

yup... "Lord, Please let us go! Please let us go! Please let us go!"

Now it's "Lord let it come soon! pleeeeeze!!"

seriously.... we've prayed about our cruise... and the timing of getting our airfares so that we pay the least amount (still waiting on God and SW).

Later,
Paul

Thanks.
I believe God is in everything and this is a big deal for us.

 

[WDWHound]

A couple of points regardin the homosexuality issue.

First, it was said "Sexual orientation is rooted in biology----the scientific evidence is overwhelming". I have heard this claim on several threads on the DIS, and, while I am not against the idea, I have never seen an actually study that proved this conclusively (and yes, I have looked). I have asked on other threads for people to provide me links to studies that prove this and no one ever has. In my opinoin, the theory of genetic causation of homosexuality could be true, but it has not been proven. If there are studies that prove this, I would honestly be interested in reading them

As for people of faith having the right to "shun" homosexuals, God forbid that we ever do that. We are called to love people as God loves people. Being gay or staight should not enter into that. I would not be in favor of allowing gay clergy, as if feel that any sin that is a lifestyle, including homosexuality,drug addiction or spousal abuse should disqualify one for the clergy, but I respect the opinions of others who feel differently.

As to why Christians like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson focus so much on this particular sin? I honestly don't know. That makes no sense to me. I also don't beleive in religious beliefs making their way into laws as long as a church is never forced to change its beleifs to conform to the government. This is why I favor civil unions for everyone. It lets the church maintain the religious aspect of marraige, and the government maintain the legal rights.

 

[cardaway]

unfortunately, liberals and politicians have made it fashionable for Gay sex and the lifestyle to be socially acceptable.

Yes, quite unfortunate that the gay lifestyle is getting closer to being socially accepted.

 

[ead79]

A couple of points regardin the homosexuality issue.

First, it was said "Sexual orientation is rooted in biology----the scientific evidence is overwhelming". I have heard this claim on several threads on the DIS, and, while I am not against the idea, I have never seen an actually study that proved this conclusively (and yes, I have looked). I have asked on other threads for people to provide me links to studies that prove this and no one ever has. In my opinoin, the theory of genetic causation of homosexuality could be true, but it has not been proven. If there are studies that prove this, I would honestly be interested in reading them

As for people of faith having the right to "shun" homosexuals, God forbid that we ever do that. We are called to love people as God loves people. Being gay or staight should not enter into that. I would not be in favor of allowing gay clergy, as if feel that any sin that is a lifestyle, including homosexuality,drug addiction or spousal abuse should disqualify one for the clergy, but I respect the opinions of others who feel differently.

As to why Christians like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson focus so much on this particular sin? I honsetly don't know. That makes no sense to me. I also don't know beleive in religious belifs making their way into laws as long as a church is never forced to change its beleifs to conform to the government. This is why I favor civil unions for everyone. It lets the church maintain the religious aspect of marraige, and the government maintain the legal rights.

Very well said, Hound. The most important thing is loving the Lord and the second is loving others like yourself. That's what I choose to focus on. How will anyone ever come to know Him if they can't see His love through us?

 

[Albertan mom]

I think that the reason that those guys and organizations are making such a big deal out of the homosexual thing right now is because it is THE BIG THING of the times.

They aren't going to spend time and money talking about swearing or something smaller that only affects the actual people doing the sin. They use their resources on the big things-abortion, homosexuality, etc... that affect many people.


ANNFMUR-we prayed about every aspect of our Disney trip. We prayed for monthes that we would all be healthy for the trip, no flus, colds, injuries etc.. We prayed for a good safe flight (it was the first time the kids and I have ever flown-so I prayed for my nerves too!!)
We prayed for good weather. We prayed that we would get along great with the other people with us (in-laws!)
We prayed that we wouldn't get lost. We prayed for safety on the rides. We prayed for good ticket/hotel deals. We prayed for EVERYTHING!!
And we had a great, safe, healthy, happy, sunny trip!!!

There is no thing to small to pray for. My kids are great at reminding me of this too! Last night my son couldn't find his Game Boy. He thought he left it at the restaurant we were at for lunch. This is at 9pm. I searched the van. I called the restaurant. I looked everywhere. My son was sobbing and sobbing (he just got it for his birthday a month ago, and had all 6 games with it too). He went into his room, and came out about 3 minutes later.
He says "I prayed and prayed and asked God to help me find it, and then I just sat there. Then I remembered that I left it outside on the back step!"

I went out, and there it was.

There was many hallelujahs! and Praise God! going on after that!

 

[LukenDC]

I think that the reason that those guys and organizations are making such a big deal out of the homosexual thing right now is because it is THE BIG THING of the times.

They aren't going to spend time and money talking about swearing or something smaller that only affects the actual people doing the sin. They use their resources on the big things-abortion, homosexuality, etc... that affect many people.


::

I wish that Americans, including, conservative Christians, spent more time focusing on divorce. That has changed society more than any other sexual/family trend. I see divorce as the big thing of the times. The number of broken families in this country is tragic.

 

[Albertan mom]

I wish that Americans, including, conservative Christians, spent more time focusing on divorce. That has changed society more than any other sexual/family trend. I see divorce as the big thing of the times. The number of broken families in this country is tragic.

I agree LukenDC. Divorce is a horrible thing. My parents divorced when I was 15, and it is very hard. I think my mom did the right thing in leaving my dad, because of the lifestyle he was living then. But I see the lasting effects it has had on all 4 of us kids, especially my younger siblings. Marriage should not be entered into lightly, and with a "well, if it isn't working, I will leave" attitude-especially where kids are involved.
I think alot of churches/Christian organizations spend alot of time on marriage counselling and encouraging couples to stay together.
The breakdown of families these days is really devastating.

 

[lmhall2000]

Amen! Luken! I am especially reminded of the divorce issue hitting me square in the eyes. Tonight at my son's football practice a mother came to the coach and said she was pulling her son off the team...apparently, a scene had occurred the previous week where the boy's stepmom horrendously and maliciously reamed the boy in front of the whole team. The "birth mom" and his dad are divorced, the father is remarried with a son from his second wife who is also on my son's team thought they're not "brothers" (yes, even I got lost on that one)...but tonight I was sad to see the mother pull the son off the team because the boys really liked him. I think it was more of a control issue between the mother and father of the boy...well, after the father arrived with the other son for practice, he was unaware she was taking him off the team...he didn't cause a scene. But they got into some bickering about something or other and they both got a little heated. The father told his birth son that he could stay at the field while his stepbrother practiced and he would watch him...so the boy went to the car and got some skates to skate around the track. His mother did not want him skating around the track (a control issue) and told him to not put his skates on...he said his Dad said he could...her words EXACTLY were "Your father doesn't want anything to do with you, he told me he didn't want you here and you're going to do what he says and not what I say, well, you just @#$^" It got worse...my heart was breaking and I could see the child suffering and just focusing on putting those skates on trying to block out his mother's crippling words. I wanted to grab her arm forcefully and pull her away from her son and tell her what a cruel and unusual excuse she was for a mother. But, something in me grabbed me and told me to pray right there for this child (only 9 years old) and his mother and father. That's all I could do.

My question is....what would you have done? Granted, if I would have approached her I wouldn't have told her how I really felt, I would have tried to calm her down and ask her if she realized what a precious boy she had there and she had no right to tell him his father did not want him. I just am still sick about it...I try not to act when I'm hot about something..and I'd like to be prepared the next time it happens...I'm almost certain it will. The man's new wife treats her son who is still on the team the same manner. I'm going to try my best to encourage the boy still on the team and try to help somehow...sorry, had to vent.

Tara

 

[Albertan mom]

Ugh. That breaks my heart. Poor kid. I hate when parents go through the kids to fight with their ex's. I hate when kids get humiliated by their parents.
That poor child.
Brings a tear to my eye....

 

[Aidensmom]

My parents are divorced, and the marriage was annulled in the Catholic Church when I was 15, we are all better off for it.

 

[LukenDC]

My parents are divorced, and the marriage was annulled in the Catholic Church when I was 15, we are all better off for it.

I agree that sometimes divorce is for the best. I worry, however, that many people get married for the wrong reasons or do not have the conflict resolution skills to make a marriage work.

 

[LukenDC]

ImHall2000, I suggest that you speak to the mother the next time you see her in a calm setting. Explain your concerns and express empathy regarding the difficult time that she is experiencing. Even if she brushes you off, your words will stick in her head.

Hopefully the father will speak to his son and assure him of his love.