Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[phillybeth]

A couple of points regardin the homosexuality issue.

First, it was said "Sexual orientation is rooted in biology----the scientific evidence is overwhelming".

Well, I would not say that the evidence is overwhelming. It does appear that there is a strong genetic influence in sexual preference (twin studies, etc). However, I do think that the homosexual lifestyle is a choice that some people make. Note I did not say people choose homosexuality, but that some individuals choose that way of life. I have known too many homosexuals to think that 100% of them 'choose' to be gay when such hatred and abuse is heaped upon them. In fact most struggle from an early age to NOT give in to what society sees as abberant and abnormal.

But to get back to the topic at hand in re: the science of homosexuality. There is conclusive evidence that other species exhibit homosexual behavior- see the widely publicized 'gay' swans from earlier this week. They exhibited mating behavior, laid (sterile) eggs and incubated them to the point where even trained biologists had to perform DNA tests to determine their true sexes. Chimps and porpoises are two other higher mammals that I have read studies on observed homosexual behavior in the wild (I discount captive experiments or observations, god help us if aliens are studying human prison culture ). In fact, our closest primate relative, the bonobo chimp, has pretty much a 'free-love' society.

 

[luvthatduke]

ANNFMUR, yes we pray about every decision,
and if we're like most families going to WDW it is a
major decision! Financially, timewise, safety (we drive), etc.
God wants us to bring everything to Him!


lukenDC, I for one am not represented necessarily
by Pat Robertson, et al. There are many times I cringe at
what he says and how he says it, thinking of the damage
he may be doing to the image of Christ in America.
I also cringe at the televangelists who claim many things,
but I believe them to be the "wolves in sheep's clothing"
the N.T. warned us about.
I also cringe at myself, BTW... I make too many mistakes
that I'm certain have created stumbling blocks for non-Christians.

I definitely agree with you about the focus not being on divorce,
I really think you made an excellent point.
In answer to your question, I believe it is because
the Gay Agenda has been so agressively promoted
for the past decade (especially), that that has become the prime
focus for the Christian conservative movement.
I, for one, do not like that entire cities have been able to
pass discrimination laws that will literally wipe out any business
that refuses to hire a self-described gay or lesbian person,
who lives the "lifestyle", and even more obnoxious to me is the
same cities defending the rights of drag queens to be hired
"just as they are." These are real laws being forced onto good
people, who simply want to run their business as they believe
God wants them to. They especially do not want to be forced to provide
benefits for a same-sex couple.
The lawsuits alone could effectively wipe out these relatively
small businesses, as they will be forced to use their resources
and time away from their business to answer an legal maneuvers
brought on by gay/lesbian/transgender individuals and/or organizations
who claim discrimination under the blanket laws now being put into place.
This is especially difficult for Christian non-profit organizations
like the Salvation Army, which had to fight hard in New York City
to be granted the right to continue their work as they have for decades.
I am a Christian conservative, BTW, but I do think for myself
and try hard to compare everything to God's Word, which is
what He directed us to do (not necessarily to blindly follow
the media's attention to the "Christian Leader d'jour").

Sorry to be so long-winded...

 

[phillybeth]

I, for one, do not like that entire cities have been able to
pass discrimination laws that will literally wipe out any business
that refuses to hire a self-described gay or lesbian person,
who lives the "lifestyle", and even more obnoxious to me is the
same cities defending the rights of drag queens to be hired
"just as they are." These are real laws being forced onto good
people, who simply want to run their business as they believe
God wants them to. They especially do not want to be forced to provide
benefits for a same-sex couple.

Hmm. You know, just about a century ago, my grandparents were the subjects of discrimination, unable to find decent jobs or housing because of their perceived 'threat' to decent, upstanding, moral christian society. Their sin? Being Irish Catholic.
Do you really think that the loving Son of god portrayed in the bible would turn away the outcasts of society? He welcomed the tax collectors, the most hated jews in society, and preached that church and state are separate (render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's).

 

[Albertan mom]

I don't think that the loving son of God would reject the outcasts of society. But most of those 'outcasts' in the bible came to him. They asked for his help. They wanted Jesus to help them either with their sinful ways, wanted forgiveness, wanted answers, wanted deliverance, wanted healing etc...

The ones that rejected His teaching?? Rejected Jesus? Rejected the prophets/religious leaders? -- God had very little patience for them.

 

[Aidensmom]

Hmm. You know, just about a century ago, my grandparents were the subjects of discrimination, unable to find decent jobs or housing because of their perceived 'threat' to decent, upstanding, moral christian society. Their sin? Being Irish Catholic.
Do you really think that the loving Son of god portrayed in the bible would turn away the outcasts of society? He welcomed the tax collectors, the most hated jews in society, and preached that church and state are separate (render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's).

I agree with you in that Christians should not turn away the "outcasts" (your word) of society, as my religious view. Jesus loved and accepted everyone, and so should we. I believe Jesus lived among sinners so that he could expose them to his word, many of the apostles were not the "holiest" of people before they knew Jesus.

(Just want to qualify that the following are my POLITICAL beliefs, and they are not representative of any other group of people.) I do believe that in a free country, people should be able to hire whoever they want in their own business. If someone does not want to hire a gay person, they should have that right, just as they should have the right not to hire a Christian if that is their desire, be that right or wrong. Wouldn't telling someone that they need to hire a certain group of people because Jesus would be "legislating morality"? I just believe that someone should be able to make their own decisions about their own business. I don't see where the constitution grants us the right to work for a particular company. Just something I don't think the government should be involved with. Would I refuse to hire someone because they were gay, or a different religion, etc.? No, but that is my personal belief (mind you, as a Christian, because it IS how I believe Jesus would act), one that I have should have the freedom to have.

 

[luvthatduke]

I knew someone would bring up a past wrong
in order to defend the current agenda.

I agree with Aidensmom in that it should not
be legislated and forced on someone to hire
a person or persons who do not reflect a business'
vision or approach to the public.

Phillybeth, as I stated in my post,
it isn't only about someone's sexual preference.
The same cities that make demands on businesses
to hire anyone who walks in their door, are also demanding
a business to hire a drag queen, or someone who is in
the midst of having their sex changed, or a transvestite, etc.
They are also demanding that those businesses provide
benefits to same-sex couples.
These are not just simple dilemmas, and I think it is wrong
to automatically say they are going against the teachings of Jesus.

People love to bring up the tax collector as the
"fill in the blank" to any type of sinner that is being discussed.
Didn't that same tax collector voluntarily go back
to every person he had robbed and return the money to them?
Jesus loved him and other sinners who came to Him,
but He didn't excuse their behavior.
He made it clear, again and again, that to follow Him
meant giving up one's life - which can certainly mean a lifestyle.

I would not reject the application of an openly gay person from a place
of business I might own, but I reserve the right to hire
anyone I want to according to the current laws,
not new ones enacted solely to protect one group of people,
(a group of people that constantly adds to their description!).

As I pointed out, an excellent group like the Salvation Army,
(who were the first volunteers inside Ground Zero and the last ones out),
were subsequently threatened with closure if they did not abide
by the extremely liberal blanket laws enacted by the same city
they had served so diligently.
They were honest in their response, stating there was no way
they could continue to serve God while giving in completely
to the new laws of the city that held the people they loved to serve.
It took them money, time and other resources to reach an agreement
with the city of New York - resources that could have been used
to serve the city's poor, whether they were gay or straight.

 

[lawman1986]

ANNFMUR, yes we pray about every decision,
and if we're like most families going to WDW it is a
major decision! Financially, timewise, safety (we drive), etc.
God wants us to bring everything to Him!


lukenDC, I for one am not represented necessarily
by Pat Robertson, et al. There are many times I cringe at
what he says and how he says it, thinking of the damage
he may be doing to the image of Christ in America.
I also cringe at the televangelists who claim many things,
but I believe them to be the "wolves in sheep's clothing"
the N.T. warned us about.
I also cringe at myself, BTW... I make too many mistakes
that I'm certain have created stumbling blocks for non-Christians.

I definitely agree with you about the focus not being on divorce,
I really think you made an excellent point.
In answer to your question, I believe it is because
the Gay Agenda has been so agressively promoted
for the past decade (especially), that that has become the prime
focus for the Christian conservative movement.
I, for one, do not like that entire cities have been able to
pass discrimination laws that will literally wipe out any business
that refuses to hire a self-described gay or lesbian person,
who lives the "lifestyle", and even more obnoxious to me is the
same cities defending the rights of drag queens to be hired
"just as they are." These are real laws being forced onto good
people, who simply want to run their business as they believe
God wants them to. They especially do not want to be forced to provide
benefits for a same-sex couple.
The lawsuits alone could effectively wipe out these relatively
small businesses, as they will be forced to use their resources
and time away from their business to answer an legal maneuvers
brought on by gay/lesbian/transgender individuals and/or organizations
who claim discrimination under the blanket laws now being put into place.
This is especially difficult for Christian non-profit organizations
like the Salvation Army, which had to fight hard in New York City
to be granted the right to continue their work as they have for decades.
I am a Christian conservative, BTW, but I do think for myself
and try hard to compare everything to God's Word, which is
what He directed us to do (not necessarily to blindly follow
the media's attention to the "Christian Leader d'jour").

Sorry to be so long-winded...

very well put, I see this every day in civil service. It sometimes becomes an outrageous appalling situation.

 

[lawman1986]

I don't think that the loving son of God would reject the outcasts of society. But most of those 'outcasts' in the bible came to him. They asked for his help. They wanted Jesus to help them either with their sinful ways, wanted forgiveness, wanted answers, wanted deliverance, wanted healing etc...

The ones that rejected His teaching?? Rejected Jesus? Rejected the prophets/religious leaders? -- God had very little patience for them.

correct. and another point that was missed her is that Jesus expected sinners to repent and follow him. he didnt say, continue sinning and he clearly expected a sinner to repent. heaven rejoices over one sinner who repents.....

 

[cra-z-4-dizney]

I saw this thread and being a BAC it of course caught my eye. I accepted the Lord in February of 1996 after the birth of my first daughter and was baptized that same year in April. I wanted my children to grow up in a good christian home...which I did not. Accepting the Lord into my heart was the best thing I have ever done...I am at such peace.

The love of the Lord amazes me...no matter what I do I know that the Lord will always love me...

I was just curious to know why whenever someone starts a thread...about anyhting, it always has to turn into a debate??? I don't know about everyone else, but if I see a thread I don't agree with I usually just skip over it. The OP wasn't asking any questions about homosexuality, so why would it even be brought up????? I don't know, it just seems there is always someone who wants an arguement about something...we all have our own beliefs, and Christians believe(well most of them anyway) that homosexuality is a sin. It says in the bible God made women for man and man shall leave his mother and go with his wife.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful.

 

[ead79]

Welcome to the thread, cra-z-4-dizney! We’re glad to have you join us! Don’t worry, the overall tone of this thread is not that of debate. We welcome folks to ask questions about our beliefs in respectful ways. You just jumped in during a particular discussion. We’re glad to have you share your experiences with us.

 

[Grandma Bear]

Welcome cra-z-4-disney

I agree getting saved is the best thing that ever happens to us! For the rest of our livese are never alone and always have the best possible resource to help us through the storms of life. The longer I serve him;the sweeter he grows!

 

[pdchris]

ANNFMUR-we prayed about every aspect of our Disney trip. We prayed for monthes that we would all be healthy for the trip, no flus, colds, injuries etc.. We prayed for a good safe flight (it was the first time the kids and I have ever flown-so I prayed for my nerves too!!)
We prayed for good weather. We prayed that we would get along great with the other people with us (in-laws!)
We prayed that we wouldn't get lost. We prayed for safety on the rides. We prayed for good ticket/hotel deals. We prayed for EVERYTHING!!
And we had a great, safe, healthy, happy, sunny trip!!!
There was many hallelujahs! and Praise God! going on after that!

Reading about your praying for a wonderful and safe trip reminded me of what happened when my DS, DD and I flew to Orlando in the first weekof May. This was my first time flying in about 3 years. Anyway, the couple in front of us were concerned because there was a clunking noise coming from the plane. I had been on enuff flights to know that sound wasn't unusual. However, it started to make me nervous, really nervous. So I said, silently, a prayer for a safe trip. Amazingly, right afterwards a feeling of calm came to me and I was totally relaxed on this flight and the flight home. It was quite remarkable how fast my prayer was answered.
Now, if that one about the lottery....And the Lord said, "Meet me halfway. Buy a ticket."

 

[acrucifer]

I saw this thread and being a BAC it of course caught my eye. I accepted the Lord in February of 2006 after the birth of my first daughter and was baptized that same year in April. I wanted my children to grow up in a good christian home...which I did not. Accepting the Lord into my heart was the best thing I have ever done...I am at such peace.

The love of the Lord amazes me...no matter what I do I know that the Lord will always love me...

I was just curious to know why whenever someone starts a thread...about anyhting, it always has to turn into a debate??? I don't know about everyone else, but if I see a thread I don't agree with I usually just skip over it. The OP wasn't asking any questions about homosexuality, so why would it even be brought up????? I don't know, it just seems there is always someone who wants an arguement about something...we all have our own beliefs, and Christians believe(well most of them anyway) that homosexuality is a sin. It says in the bible God made women for man and man shall leave his mother and go with his wife.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful.

welcome to the thread craz4disney we are happy to have you. Being saved is truly a wonderful and life altering experience that certainly I will never forget and I have never been the same. anyway, it is quite right what others were saying about the topic, this was discussed much earlier, your timing simply coincided with it. But your interpetation is a good one, God loves all Gays, but not the sins. just as he loves all of us but not our sins. anyway, please enjoy your visit here and feel free to witness and share any testimony you might if is you wish to.

 

[ead79]

Reading about your praying for a wonderful and safe trip reminded me of what happened when my DS, DD and I flew to Orlando in the first weekof May. This was my first time flying in about 3 years. Anyway, the couple in front of us were concerned because there was a clunking noise coming from the plane. I had been on enuff flights to know that sound wasn't unusual. However, it started to make me nervous, really nervous. So I said, silently, a prayer for a safe trip. Amazingly, right afterwards a feeling of calm came to me and I was totally relaxed on this flight and the flight home. It was quite remarkable how fast my prayer was answered.
Now, if that one about the lottery....And the Lord said, "Meet me halfway. Buy a ticket."

I can totally relate to this--I hate flying, so I always pray my way through it. I wish I could just relax and trust, but when flying I have a super hard time doing that.

 

[Albertan mom]

Welcome crazy4dizney!!!

Every few pages or so, a non-christian comes on and asks a few questions. Homosexuality seems to be their favorite topic!

Glad to hear your testimony. You said you became a Christian in 2006.... did you mean 2005?

 

[luvthatduke]

Welcome, cra-z-4-dizney.
Yep, you happened to start reading during
a recent debate, but rest assured not
all discussions turn into debates.
I recommend you take the time to peruse
the other posts, lots of things have been discussed.

 

[cra-z-4-dizney]

Glad to hear your testimony. You said you became a Christian in 2006.... did you mean 2005?

Nope duh OMgoodness I just realized I put that...no I meant to say in 199(6)not 2006...let me go back and fix that...I have been walking with the Lord for almost 10 years now...not bad considering I am only 28 huh. oh, and I just wanted to add the daughter that was born in 96 accepted Jesus into her heart and was saved 2 years ago....praise God!!! Now I just have to keep working with the little one. She will be 5 in September so I still have time with her. Anyway, thanks for all the welcomes!!!!!

 

[ead79]

Nope duh OMgoodness I just realized I put that...no I meant to say in 199(6)not 2006...let me go back and fix that...I have been walking with the Lord for almost 10 years now...not bad considering I am only 28 huh. oh, and I just wanted to add the daughter that was born in 96 accepted Jesus into her heart and was saved 2 years ago....praise God!!! Now I just have to keep working with the little one. She will be 5 in September so I still have time with her. Anyway, thanks for all the welcomes!!!!!

Thanks for sharing about your DD’s salvation as well. I always get a little choked up when little ones at church come to know Christ. I was saved at a young age, so I think it reminds me of myself. Plus, it always reminds me about having faith like a child. There’s something so wonderful about the faith of little ones.

 

[cardaway]

Every few pages or so, a non-christian comes on and asks a few questions. Homosexuality seems to be their favorite topic!

Just following the lead given to us by the Christian right.

 

[acrucifer]

Just following the lead given to us by the Christian right.

well, if its the christian right, then its coming from christians rather than non christians. let us remember, the christian right are still good christians. none of us has the right to judge who is fit to be christian and who is not. nor is it our purview to judge who is a good christian and who is not, that s Gods domain, that said perhaps we should move on from this topic. has anyone read any good books lately??