Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[luvthatduke]

Hi Everyone!

We had a great Wednesday night service. We have been going through the book Exodus and studying the 10 commandments......last night was Honour your Father and Mother. Our pastor used many verses to explain honour from a Biblical perspective. To honour means to be obedient, to put someone before yourself, to show respect too......it was very good...

liv4christp1, whenever I hear a reference to that commandment
I remember that it's the only one with a promise given,
(and just for obeying!)

I heard some great sermons & teachings very similar to what you
talk about re:Clinton (or anyone!) and God's divine purpose.
So many times as Christians we take on a mob mentality towards
someone or perhaps a group of people we dislike or that we fear.
One thing I've learned is how important it is to pray especially hard
for those who mistreat me or those that do things that I don't agree with,
- i.e. bless your enemies and do not curse them.
It is so much more than obeying God's command to pray for them,
it brings my heart into a more humble state and God's wisdom
always stands out when I obey Him and truly bend my will to His.

 

[Aidensmom]

Just want to pose a question - why do you think so many other people on the DIS see BAC's as judgemental and non-accepting?

I understand that some people may be offended by us saying that we know we are going to heaven (wrongly interpreting that as arrogance rather than the exact opposite of us realizing that it is only through accepting that we are not worthy of God without Jesus), but why is there such harsh criticism? I just feel like we are doing something wrong, and I would really like to figure out what it is. I don't have people in real life react to me in the same way.

 

[luvthatduke]

Just want to pose a question - why do you think so many other people on the DIS see BAC's as judgemental and non-accepting?

I understand that some people may be offended by us saying that we know we are going to heaven (wrongly interpreting that as arrogance rather than the exact opposite of us realizing that it is only through accepting that we are not worthy of God without Jesus), but why is there such harsh criticism? I just feel like we are doing something wrong, and I would really like to figure out what it is. I don't have people in real life react to me in the same way.

Excellent question, and one every Christian should think about.

I was going to give a knee-jerk response,
having just read Snoopy's and Elisabeth's conversation on
another thread (a thread which I'm assuming influenced your post?),
but I want to ponder it a while...
I'll be very interested to read other's responses.

 

[Aidensmom]

having just read Snoopy's and Elisabeth's conversation on
another thread (a thread which I'm assuming influenced your post?),

That was one of a few today, yes.

 

[pogopossum]

we just did a study of that subject in our adult bible fellowships at church. you know how can we say that Jesus is the only way? and the thing is we just quote him and leave it to him, They made the rules we just report them. it is not up to us bacs to judge, but God. i always like to take it back to the red letters in my Bible, whenever i get into sticky discussions with anyone over those stumbling block questions. He never seemed to shy away from the hard question.

 

[ead79]

Aidensmom, I have often wondered the same thing. I think there is no one reason, but rather a set of different reasons. Here are some of my thoughts…

--Some people tend to judge BAC’s harshly because just as you pointed out, we believe in moral absolutes and that we can know that we are going to heaven. This is very counter-cultural (as my pastor would say) and against the current mainstream thinking in America today. There is a major trend toward universalism (the all roads lead to Rome school of finding salvation), and what we believe is very much at odds with the concept of universalism that so many have embraced today. Just as was pointed out, having a firm belief in Jesus’ statement that He is the Way, Truth, and Life and that no one finds salvation without him flies in the face of what many people have chosen to believe today. I think that it’s a newer trend to not believe in absolutes, just that everybody should do what they think is right. And I think it’s a sad trend.

--Some people have been hurt deeply by someone claiming to be (or someone who was) a Christian. Unfortunately when people are deeply and painfully hurt by someone, I think it’s easy to judge the whole group as all being bad.

--Some people don’t like organized religion. Some people would prefer to make their own belief set based on what they think is right. This goes hand in hand with the universalism a bit. Since God is too big for us to fully understand, some people prefer to mold Him into what they think He should be like. They disregard what the Bible says about certain issues if they disagree.

--This reason is a little bit more philosophical than the others, but I think that mainstream society will always be at war with the truth. Jesus did tell us that the world will hate us too since it hated Him. This goes to the whole concept of spiritual warfare. There is a battle being waged that we cannot see for the souls of people.

I’m sure those are just some of the reasons, and I’m sure there are many more. Those are just some reasons I’ve thought of.

 

[WDWHound]

Outstanding post, ead79!!!

 

[Grandma Bear]

ead70 I totally agree with what you said! There are many who prefer the darkness so they do not have to deal with the problem but can pass the blanme and justify themselves!

 

[WDWHound]

OK folks, heres another question for you. How do you feel about the Apostle Paul. Someone on another thread said they beleived Paul was "on crack". While they didn't mean it litterally, they certainly did not give much authority to Paul's teachings. I understood to a degree, because I too used to find Paul a bit hard to swallow, but when I finally broke down and studied what the man really had to say (not simply what other people had told me had to say) and the contexts in which he said it, I found that Paul is not nearly the extremist he is so often made out to be.

So I am curious, how you feel about Paul and why do you think he has fallen so much out of favor recently?

 

[Beauty]

I've never been on this thread but I think I should have posed my Divorce thread here....LOL! We are taking Creative Counterparts on our Thursday night small class and it teaches STAY TOGETHER PERIOD which is what brought on my thread yesterday. I think I'm probably hated now and I'm so unconfrontational. So what do you all think of the teachings of NO DIVORCE with the exception of Death and Adultery?

 

[Galahad]

OK folks, heres another question for you. How do you feel about the Apostle Paul. Someone on another thread said they believed Paul was "on crack". While they didn't mean it literally, they certainly did not give much authority to Paul's teachings. I understood to a degree, because I too used to find Paul a bit hard to swallow, but when I finally broke down and studied what the man really had to say (not simply what other people had told me had to say) and the contexts in which he said it, I found that Paul is not nearly the extremist he is so often made out to be.

So I am curious, how you feel about Paul and why do you think he has fallen so much out of favor recently?

My experience with Paul has been similar to yours Hound. I think some if it an ambivalence born of the realization that Paul is "once-removed". In these days of reform movements ("getting back to what Jesus said") it seems natural to regard a secondary source askance. Add to that the fact that our religion was in a very real sense developed by Paul ABOUT Jesus rather than developed by Jesus ABOUT himself it makes, I think, our relationship with Paul's writing more complicated. To be sure, Paul seems to have been merely shepherding what the church was evolving into in the first century. But I am often quite tempted, when reading Paul to wonder how far afield he really got. There are reasons to argue that Jesus was not after the creation of a Church in the way that it turned out, even the way it turned out in those early days.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Elisabeth, that was so nicely stated.

I've never been on this thread but I think I should have posed my Divorce thread here....LOL! We are taking Creative Counterparts on our Thursday night small class and it teaches STAY TOGETHER PERIOD which is what brought on my thread yesterday. I think I'm probably hated now and I'm so unconfrontational. So what do you all think of the teachings of NO DIVORCE with the exception of Death and Adultery?

I am guessing you mean Abuse and Adultery. I think there are other circumstances when divorce is the only logical answer. Unless both people want to work on a marriage it will not work. I don't believe people should be miserable just for the sake of religion.

 

[Grandma Bear]

WDWHound I think that Paul addressed many ills of our society not only in his time; but those that prevail today. He spoke out on them as Jesus would have and just as in the past, mant people were opposed to what he said.
Paul's messages were not only to the everyday man but to the church as well.

 

[Aidensmom]

OK folks, heres another question for you. How do you feel about the Apostle Paul. Someone on another thread said they beleived Paul was "on crack". While they didn't mean it litterally, they certainly did not give much authority to Paul's teachings. I understood to a degree, because I too used to find Paul a bit hard to swallow, but when I finally broke down and studied what the man really had to say (not simply what other people had told me had to say) and the contexts in which he said it, I found that Paul is not nearly the extremist he is so often made out to be.

So I am curious, how you feel about Paul and why do you think he has fallen so much out of favor recently?

I didn't realize he had fallen out of favor, other than by that poster on the other thread!

I think a lot of the problem of why people may have a hard time with some of Paul's writings is that they don't understand the context in which he is writing them. By that I mean that many things were written to specific churches, to sort of bring them back on the path from which they may have strayed. If you don't know the history/problems of those specific churches, it can be hard to understand what Paul is talking about.

 

[Beauty]

I don't believe people should be miserable just for the sake of religion.

See thats what I always believed as well, until this class. This class teaches us to be more Godly in our marriage and that means staying together no matter what. The Bible does specifically say that there is NO other reason to divorce and if you are going to try your best to be like Jesus and follow God's rules.........Thats where I get confused. There is a women in my class that her husband doesn't even talk to her, they don't sleep in the same bed, shes misrable, but yet GOD says don't leave and GOD is the boss.

Just like the Bible says plain and simple that Homosexuality is WRONG. PERIOD.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

See thats what I always believed as well, until this class. This class teaches us to be more Godly in our marriage and that means staying together no matter what. The Bible does specifically say that there is NO other reason to divorce and if you are going to try your best to be like Jesus and follow God's rules.........Thats where I get confused. There is a women in my class that her husband doesn't even talk to her, they don't sleep in the same bed, shes misrable, but yet GOD says don't leave and GOD is the boss.

Just like the Bible says plain and simple that Homosexuality is WRONG. PERIOD.

In the bible it also talks about what constitutes a healthy marriage, how we are to serve each other. That is not a healthy marriage and sounds like it could be mentally/emotionally abusive. For goodness sakes the husband is not talking to the wife. THAT IS WRONG.

 

[Beauty]

Nope he isn't talking to her at all. He works on a tow-boat and is gone for 2 weeks then home for 2 weeks then gone again. She is a super sweet girl and I feel horrible for her. I'm a fairly new Christian though and don't feel it my place to question the teachings of the Bible and what the older Christian ladies are saying to her. I don't know about the Bible enough yet to dictate to anyone. I'm just so confused on it. They tell her to stay no matter what as long as he isn't abusive or committing adultery and I think she should be happy. I think I'm trying to understand God's take on this, but of course we will never fully understand God.

 

[Aidensmom]

I've never been on this thread but I think I should have posed my Divorce thread here....LOL! We are taking Creative Counterparts on our Thursday night small class and it teaches STAY TOGETHER PERIOD which is what brought on my thread yesterday. I think I'm probably hated now and I'm so unconfrontational. So what do you all think of the teachings of NO DIVORCE with the exception of Death and Adultery?

I probably have a different defination of adultery in this context than most people do, so I don't expect a lot of agreement. I see it, besides the literal sex with another person, as when one spouse is, in essence, "married" to something other than their spouse, be that alchohol, drugs, pornography, strip clubs, something that has taken over their lives and they are unwilling or unable to give up. If spending all night on the computer on porn sites is more important than sleeping with your spouse, I would consider that cheating on that spouse, or adultery. There are a lot of these types of things that goes on within Christian marriages. Amy Grant divorced her husband because of his drug problems. Sure I think that you should try, and try hard, to overcome these things, but sometimes the spouse with the problem is not willing to overcome them.

 

[Beauty]

I have never looked at it that way but I definately can see your point. I'm so confused on the whole issue. I don't think there is anything in this marriage like that though. I think he simply doens't love her or I don't know. Its not drugs, or alcohol, its just simply NOT A MARRIAGE. Its not a marriage in any sense of a marriage. He doesn't want to go to counseling and refuses to come to church.

The older ladies (who have had hard times in their marriage) keep telling her to hang in there that eventually God will deal with him. It's so confusing to me.

I could go on and on about questions I have. My tattos, yes the Bible clearly states not to mark your body because it's God's temple, but the verses right under that state that men shouldn't shave their facial hair and that we shouldn't eat red meat. It's all so confusing.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Ephesians 5:22-33

18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Colossians 2:18-19

Does it sound like this husband is doing those things?