Booted from AKL Club Level for 50th Celebration Week…*update page 15*

[zavandor]

Yes, because I contracted to. Hopefully, before I signed the contract, I did a bunch of research on the attorney and discovered that he was lousy in court and did this every single time - and would have picked a different attorney. Just like you have contracted to pay DVCMC. If you guys want to try and fire DVCMC over this, give it a go. If you want to withhold dues, you can try that as well. I don't think either of those things will end well for you. And if you want to complain, complain away - but don't think you are making this Disney's problem or doing anything other than wasting your breath. Hey, it can be fun to complain.

It would be career suicide for DVCMC customer satisfaction management to go up against Hotels over this. They wouldn't win, and they'd gain a reputation of not being a team player. While each of these divisions is different operating companies, management moves between operating companies as opportunities arise. It is in the personal interest of DVCMC management to make other Disney managers happy long before they make members happy.

The reality is that these issues will come up from time to time over the course of your membership, and Disney has a standard way of dealing with it that doesn't involve compensation or choice. That membership has complained about it each time it comes up, and to date, it hasn't changed. Disney has a solution they are happy with. Maybe this time it will be different.

Its disappointing to plan a big trip and secure a great reservation and have it not happen. I bet most of us cancelled something over Covid (my husband will not be taking his mother back to his birthplace in the Netherlands - the trip was supposed to be last year, and she aged a lot over the past fifteen months), we all know the feeling. But despite you wanting to make this Disney's problem, they aren't going to see it that way. Expecting more than you are offered is really only going to increase your dissatisfaction.

You are 100% right. But...

What's the cost for DVCMC of publishing a news on the website saying:

From 8/20 to 10/15 urgent maintenance work will be performed on Jambo house. This will impact all club level rooms and 15 rooms on the 5th floor. Members impacted will be contacted by members services before 7/15 to find a replacement. We apologize etc etc
(All dates and numbers are random, just for the sake of making an example)

This would make clear of the reason of the displacement, the impact, remediation and that people who haven't been already contacted are safe.
What's in for Disney?

• Fewer calls to MS. That news requires 5 minutes to write. I bet they've received dozens of calls from members asking if they are impacted. We pay a flat amount for MS, if they handle all such things in this chaotic way they might be forced to hire more CM
• Less noise, conspiracy theories and such. While we are a small minority, episodes like this compound over time to lower trust and tarnish the brand

DVCMC don't have a culture of transparency, even on things like this that are just stupid to try and hide (or just not care enough to handle properly).
They should start communicating more and better.

 

[crisi]

Which doesn’t that mean it still comes down to that no matter what pushback they did to change the time it was done owners are impacted?

Owners are all entitled to that same “membership first” so just not sure how the argument that doing it in the fall was worse for owners vs summer since the impacted rooms run 100% year round. No matter when some owners would need to be moved.

I think it depends on what individual pushback they are doing. If the pushback is "just not then" - then yep, you are right. Some people here want choices in moving. Others are looking for compensation.

Honestly, I think the pushback with the most chance of success is that if membership were to send a unified "unless its an emergency, please plan maintenance eleven months out and block the rooms up front." That is one area where I think I've noticed (perhaps you have too?) that we have had success - this sort of thing happens a lot less often than it did ten or twenty years ago. The snafu of the Boardwalk residing project hasn't been repeated. (They still can't schedule pool maintenance out far enough to plan around). It won't be perfect because as anyone who has ever undertaken a project knows, there are delays as well as opportunities to move faster - and sometimes everything just happens two months later than you hoped. (I worked a construction project once as a project manager for a non-profit that had U.S. Senators and the Governor showing up to the opening - and we had to fake the opening gala because the occupancy certificate was still two weeks away due to supplier issues with the elevator and ADA access). And I think the next several cycles are going to be bumpier than the last decade - due to pandemic supply chains, staffing, and scheduling as Disney delayed some cash outlays, and moved the maintenance staff and dollars they did have around to take advantage of lowered capacity. I think the pandemic likely messed up maintenance schedules like it messed up everything else. But expecting them to communicate that out to the membership would be - a significant change in how they communicate to the membership. And I suspect there are a lot of reasons for that. They see their decision making process as a competitive advantage - and their specific plans for spending money also are likely confidential. Their legal department probably doesn't want them to communicate unnecessarily. And they don't need the constant questioning from the membership "I think you should move this schedule out" that comes from communication.

 

[RoseGold]

Wow, this thread is a cluster. And I see a lot here that I don't see as good practice for a product that requires 11 month booking. If this product had more flexibility, then maybe I'd be more generous with situations like this. I'm disappointed in the "solutions" offered. I'd be furious if it were my reservation.

The silver lining I see in this thread is that NOBODY has been willing to say that CL will still be closed in October. To me, that means Disney is getting ready to print some cash on the cash side by opening club level! This is good long term, because club level will be back!

 

[crisi]

You are 100% right. But...

What's the cost for DVCMC of publishing a news on the website saying:

From 8/20 to 10/15 urgent maintenance work will be performed on Jambo house. This will impact all club level rooms and 15 rooms on the 5th floor. Members impacted will be contacted by members services before 7/15 to find a replacement. We apologize etc etc
(All dates and numbers are random, just for the sake of making an example)

This would make clear of the reason of the displacement, the impact, remediation and that people who haven't been already contacted are safe.
What's in for Disney?

• Fewer calls to MS. That news requires 5 minutes to write. I bet they've received dozens of calls from members asking if they are impacted. We pay a flat amount for MS, if they handle all such things in this chaotic way they might be forced to hire more CM
• Less noise, conspiracy theories and such. While we are a small minority, episodes like this compound over time to lower trust and tarnish the brand

DVCMC don't have a culture of transparency, even on things like this that are just stupid to try and hide (or just not care enough to handle properly).
They should start communicating more and better.

I agree with this. I don't think it would much impact though, because my experience with that sort of communication (IT Infrastructure Project Management for 20 years) is that people don't read it. But Disney should still do it - just like the schedule and communicate attraction closures.

What I don't agree with is the idea that membership is able to change schedules, demand compensation, or get to choose what sort of room they get moved to. That all has costs. Nor do I agree that this is "Disney's problem." I don't think that they are honestly that concerned about this tarnishing the brand - since modern corporations operate on short term projections, and tarnish takes too long to build for it to be on current management's radar.

 

[crisi]

Wow, this thread is a cluster. And I see a lot here that I don't see as good practice for a product that requires 11 month booking. If this product had more flexibility, then maybe I'd be more generous with situations like this. I'm disappointed in the "solutions" offered. I'd be furious if it were my reservation.

The silver lining I see in this thread is that NOBODY has been willing to say that CL will still be closed in October. To me, that means Disney is getting ready to print some cash on the cash side by opening club level! This is good long term, because club level will be back!

I don't think Disney knows when their club level facilities will be open or closed. If we get a fall hotspot in the Orlando area, with Delta or another variant loading up hospitals, all bets are off on what will happen. Its hard to plan when we don't know what the next variant will look like.

My youngest's college is planning on in person classes this Fall and a return to normal - with the caveat that it could all change - and this is a college on a fairly closed campus in a highly vaccinated state that is requiring students to be vaccinated.

This is one of the reasons communicating is so difficult right now. As I said, with any project, timelines are hard to hold to.....add in a pandemic with an ever evolving virus and its even harder. Not that, as zavandor said, DVCMC has ever been ANY good at communicating.

 

[RoseGold]

What I don't agree with is the idea that membership is able to change schedules, demand compensation, or get to choose what sort of room they get moved to. That all has costs.

These owners booked these rooms 11M+ ahead of time. Yes, something should be done to get them what they booked or better. This thread is what I would expect defending a sleazy timeshare, not a five figure Disney product.

This thread is two weeks old, and there's still no communication from DVC. That is disappointing. Like the VGC double bookings, which were all completely Disney's fault.

 

[crisi]

These owners booked these rooms 11M+ ahead of time. Yes, something should be done to get them what they booked or better. This thread is what I would expect defending a sleazy timeshare, not a five figure Disney product.

This thread is two weeks old, and there's still no communication from DVC. That is disappointing. Like the VGC double bookings, which were all completely Disney's fault.

I'm not defending it. It sucks. But this is the reality - and has been the reality with maintenance issues and DVC for thirty years. And that reality is highly unlikely to change.

 

[Sandisw]

I think it depends on what individual pushback they are doing. If the pushback is "just not then" - then yep, you are right. Some people here want choices in moving. Others are looking for compensation.

Honestly, I think the pushback with the most chance of success is that if membership were to send a unified "unless its an emergency, please plan maintenance eleven months out and block the rooms up front." That is one area where I think I've noticed (perhaps you have too?) that we have had success - this sort of thing happens a lot less often than it did ten or twenty years ago. The snafu of the Boardwalk residing project hasn't been repeated. (They still can't schedule pool maintenance out far enough to plan around). It won't be perfect because as anyone who has ever undertaken a project knows, there are delays as well as opportunities to move faster - and sometimes everything just happens two months later than you hoped. (I worked a construction project once as a project manager for a non-profit that had U.S. Senators and the Governor showing up to the opening - and we had to fake the opening gala because the occupancy certificate was still two weeks away due to supplier issues with the elevator and ADA access). And I think the next several cycles are going to be bumpier than the last decade - due to pandemic supply chains, staffing, and scheduling as Disney delayed some cash outlays, and moved the maintenance staff and dollars they did have around to take advantage of lowered capacity. I think the pandemic likely messed up maintenance schedules like it messed up everything else. But expecting them to communicate that out to the membership would be - a significant change in how they communicate to the membership. And I suspect there are a lot of reasons for that. They see their decision making process as a competitive advantage - and their specific plans for spending money also are likely confidential. Their legal department probably doesn't want them to communicate unnecessarily. And they don't need the constant questioning from the membership "I think you should move this schedule out" that comes from communication.

I definitely agree more choices and a notice on website should be happening. In that they have failed.

My only concern with taking out way out is if delays happens, or they can start earlier, it could end up with moves anyway.

Plus, you see these rooms go out based on speculation would cause uproar too. Not sure there is anything win win.

 

[crisi]

I definitely agree more choices and a notice on website should be happening. In that they have failed.

My only concern with taking out way out is if delays happens, or they can start earlier, it could end up with moves anyway.

Plus, you see these rooms go out based on speculation would cause uproar too. Not sure there is anything win win.

I don't think there is without spending a ton of money to keep schedules....that means having excess maintenance staff to throw at delays, and letting them sit idle rather than accelerating the schedule, over ordering supplies and having them delivered far in advance so supply delay risk is reduced, etc. That wouldn't be a dues expense I'd be excited about.

 

[robinb]

I'm not defending it. It sucks. But this is the reality - and has been the reality with maintenance issues and DVC for thirty years. And that reality is highly unlikely to change.

I don't think that anyone is questioning the need for maintenance or that rooms may need to be taken out of commission when that maintenance is done. For me, it's a combination of the timing and the fact there are no choices being offered.

I find the timing particularly suspect to coincide with the re-opening of Jambo House. It's as if they waited until Jambo was reopened to do the maintenance to shuttle people over to the regular resort rooms. If they had taken those villas out of inventory earlier and contacted those guests, then people may have had a chance to book another resort. But that would mean that DVC would lose the point "income" for the Jambo villas. This way, they still have people spending points at Jambo and they sell out the other resorts too. I do understand that there is a point glut, but it's rather a coinkydink that maintenance suddenly needs to be done now after Jambo sat empty for over a year. My guess is that this was the plan all along as they accepted reservations at Jambo.

 

[crisi]

I don't think that anyone is questioning the need for maintenance or that rooms may need to be taken out of commission when that maintenance is done. For me, it's a combination of the timing and the fact there are no choices being offered.

I find the timing particularly suspect to coincide with the re-opening of Jambo House. It's as if they waited until Jambo was reopened to do the maintenance to shuttle people over to the regular resort rooms. If they had taken those villas out of inventory earlier and contacted those guests, then people may have had a chance to book another resort. But that would mean that DVC would lose the point "income" for the Jambo villas. This way, they still have people spending points at Jambo and they sell out the other resorts too. I do understand that there is a point glut, but it's rather a coinkydink that maintenance suddenly needs to be done now after Jambo sat empty for over a year. My guess is that this was the plan all along as they accepted reservations at Jambo.

And those are the things I do not think that they can control - or should spend either money or political capital controlling. Disney Hotels controls the timing of maintenance at the hotel/DVC resorts, and as Sandi said upthread - if it isn't this week and these people, its some other week and some other members. My room may get pulled out from under me for the 50th, but it might get pulled out of me for a terminal cancer trip, or a honeymoon - or something equally important to me as an individual. And as for choices, the problem is that if they offer you a choice, then they don't have that choice available for me when I need to move, and we all come here and talk about what we are offered, there is a lot of "unfair!" and "if they can't give everyone the same choices, they shouldn't offer any." So they are offering none. That means no one is getting choices someone else isn't.

 

[New Mouse]

Yes, because I contracted to. Hopefully, before I signed the contract, I did a bunch of research on the attorney and discovered that he was lousy in court and did this every single time - and would have picked a different attorney. Just like you have contracted to pay DVCMC. If you guys want to try and fire DVCMC over this, give it a go. If you want to withhold dues, you can try that as well. I don't think either of those things will end well for you. And if you want to complain, complain away - but don't think you are making this Disney's problem or doing anything other than wasting your breath. Hey, it can be fun to complain.

It would be career suicide for DVCMC customer satisfaction management to go up against Hotels over this. They wouldn't win, and they'd gain a reputation of not being a team player. While each of these divisions is different operating companies, management moves between operating companies as opportunities arise. It is in the personal interest of DVCMC management to make other Disney managers happy long before they make members happy.

The reality is that these issues will come up from time to time over the course of your membership, and Disney has a standard way of dealing with it that doesn't involve compensation or choice. That membership has complained about it each time it comes up, and to date, it hasn't changed. Disney has a solution they are happy with. Maybe this time it will be different.

Its disappointing to plan a big trip and secure a great reservation and have it not happen. I bet most of us cancelled something over Covid (my husband will not be taking his mother back to his birthplace in the Netherlands - the trip was supposed to be last year, and she aged a lot over the past fifteen months), we all know the feeling. But despite you wanting to make this Disney's problem, they aren't going to see it that way. Expecting more than you are offered is really only going to increase your dissatisfaction.

It is DVCMCs job and contractual obligation to represent the member.

You talk as if DVC hasnt lost lawsuits or had to back pedal before.

 

[New Mouse]

When DVC moves people to the hotel side, are they paying the hotel for that lost revenue?

 

[crisi]

It is DVCMCs job and contractual obligation to represent the member.

You talk as if DVC hasnt lost lawsuits or had to back pedal before.

They have - they aren't over this. Pick your battles.

 

[crisi]

When DVC moves people to the hotel side, are they paying the hotel for that lost revenue?

By U.S. GAAP, they have to compensate between subsidiaries when anything of value is transferred at a fair rate or they are in violation of SEC rules (they would be breaking the law). That fair rate may be discounted off rack if the rooms are going unused - but some accounting must happen. So yes, we - the membership - pays for those rooms.

 

[Sandisw]

When DVC moves people to the hotel side, are they paying the hotel for that lost revenue?

The contract specially address these things as to remedies when a resort is out of service. With rooms, it’s why DVCMC retains about 2% or rooms for these reasons.

 

[sethschroeder]

Nor do I agree that this is "Disney's problem."

Except that's the point DVC is supposed to be fighting the battles for membership not just rolling over.

Just because you are fine with it doesn't make it the correct action. Also by accepting it as "they can do whatever they want" it does continue to set a precident that questions can not be asked by the membership.

You seem completely set to say DVC can do zero wrong though which is your choice. Guess you did your research on the lawyer and never asked them a question or asked them to ever change anything they ever did in a 50 year partnership.

 

[Sandisw]

Except that's the point DVC is supposed to be fighting the battles for membership not just rolling over.

Just because you are fine with it doesn't make it the correct action. Also by accepting it as "they can do whatever they want" it does continue to set a precident that questions can not be asked by the membership.

You seem completely set to say DVC can do zero wrong though which is your choice. Guess you did your research on the lawyer and never asked them a question or asked them to ever change anything they ever did in a 50 year partnership.

So help me understand what fight you believe they should have done in this case?

Things need to be done, Disney seems to have hired people to do it and they told DVC that the rooms would be impacted.

 

[limace]

I think they could have offered folks equivalent lodging using some of the undeclared RIV inventory.

 

[sndral]

I'm not defending it. It sucks. But this is the reality - and has been the reality with maintenance issues and DVC for thirty years. And that reality is highly unlikely to change.

I definitely agree more choices and a notice on website should be happening. In that they have failed.

My only concern with taking out way out is if delays happens, or they can start earlier, it could end up with moves anyway.

Plus, you see these rooms go out based on speculation would cause uproar too. Not sure there is anything win win.

I haven’t been following DVC for 30 years, but I’ve been around for a few of these unexpected oops that villa you booked 10 months ago is suddenly not available incidents & what strikes me as different this time is the take it or leave it we are moving you to here or you can cancel that folks are getting. If they’re unable to offer a same sized villa elsewhere, at a minimum they should offer to extend the points impacted if the owner opts to cancel, after all they are extending that courtesy to folks who own DVC in travel banned countries.
Good thing our MFs went up 8% this year so we can afford to pay the hotel folks for all of those rooms they’re moving people to & how convenient to schedule the maintenance right when they’re finally re-opening the resort which has been shuttered due to lower demand for months. Hotel side gets to up it’s occupancy % and bottom line to keep the bean counters happy w/ good news for earnings calls & DVC burns through some of that point glut - win/win…not.