Booted from AKL Club Level for 50th Celebration Week…*update page 15*

[Sandisw]

No you don't seem to understand. Disney trying to shut down rooms so they can do some maintenance somewhere completely different is their issue coming to me to shutdown my rooms as DVC. As such as DVC management I should be pushing on Disney to change policies on how they do this maintenance (so this is never an issue again like when they do it or how far out they plan) in addition I should be pushing on them to provide more than adequate options to my members for various options knowing a hotel rooms =/= DVC room.

Just like at my house. If the town came to me (or the HOA when I use to live in a HOA) and wanted to change things I can absolutely push back on them. That should be happening for us by DVC which we pay MFs to in order to deal with those "issues". Also I would find it completely unacceptable for the Town, HOA, Apartment Owner, or anyone else to simply say "we are doing something don't ask any questions". In addition everywhere I have ever lived/owned (owned 3 houses in last decade and live in like 13 different locations in past 17 years) they have always proactively reached out with information, had a township/city meeting where questions could be asked, and took feedback (even if they decided to stay with original planned thing).

Again like said previously as well possibly they do end up doing this but there is always going to be give and take and by not pushing here to hard they get some other benefit in exchange for the AKV membership.

The property management agreement the condo associations have with Disney gives them explicit right to manage the property.

It puts a lot of control in their hands. If you haven’t read it, it’s eye opening.

Point is that we, as owners, by way of contract with Disney to maintain the property, have given that authority, not to mention that AKL Jambo is a shared resort which gives them say into decisions as well.

 

[sethschroeder]

In 20 years of owning DVC, the only "successful" pushbacks I've seen were the points allocations a few years ago and the Aulani dues fiasco.

Again you are not getting my point.

DVC management is failing for not actively looking after owners interest.

You keep saying I can bang my head against the wall or whatever else. I am saying that's why DVC is being paid to manage our interests appropriately.

 

[crisi]

Again you are not getting my point.

DVC management is failing for not actively looking after owners interest.

You keep saying I can bang my head against the wall or whatever else. I am saying that's why DVC is being paid to manage our interests appropriately.

Are they failing by their standards? They are failing by your standards - that is why it is your problem. They aren't failing by mine. And they sure aren't failing by their own. Moving people order to do maintenance is exactly what I'd expect them to do when looking after my interests. Not giving them a choice keeps my dues lower. That's in my interest.

 

[sethschroeder]

It puts a lot of control in their hands. If you haven’t read it, it’s eye opening.

Never said anything different it also doesn't mean you roll over on every decision either.

There are lots of things Disney could do likely. Doesn't mean we cant expect DVC to push on Disney and watch out what is in our best interest.

 

[Sandisw]

Never said anything different it also doesn't mean you roll over on every decision either.

There are lots of things Disney could do likely. Doesn't mean we cant expect DVC to push on Disney and watch out what is in our best interest.

Probably where we differ then because I’m fine with what has happened because I believe it falls within what we want as owners to ensure the resorts are maintained.

 

[Lolaura84]

It did add more points to the system and exceeded the 1:1 point to use match for the year. However, DVC owns points at those resorts as well so it is very possible that they simply decided not to use them to turn into cash rooms. It is one of the things we just don't have specific information on how they handled it.

With the extension of points, they used their own points to do that, so I wonder if they did that with this situation as well.

Thanks, that makes sense. I wasn't aware DVC used their own points for the extension, and it would make sense if they were doing the same thing here with club level refunds. I, like everyone, am hoping that Club amenities will return soon so that there isn't a need for anybody's points to go to waste!

 

[Chumpieboy]

Probably where we differ then because I’m fine with what has happened because I believe it falls within what we want as owners to ensure the resorts are maintained.

No one is questioning the need for maintenance. People are (rightly IMO) pushing back on the idea that their reservations are being modified at the last minute, with minimal/no explanation why, with no alternatives offered.

I mean is it even confirmed (like from an official source like a bus driver or someone high up in the chain like that? ) that these reservation modifications are due to planned/unplanned maintenance? This thread veered in that direction but is it officially confirmed?

 

[sethschroeder]

Are they failing by their standards? They are failing by your standards - that is why it is your problem. They aren't failing by mine.

Except just like Covid19 it's not about mine or your standards it's about the best interest of the membership of the whole.

DVC should be making sure Disney is not pulling any funny business and looking out for all members including the roughly 0.001% impacted by this movement at AKV this fall.

No one is questioning the need for maintenance. People are (rightly IMO) pushing back on the idea that their reservations are being modified at the last minute, with minimal/no explanation why, with no alternatives offered.

Exactly Disney can do lots of things it's DVC that needs to keep them in check that what they are doing is allowed and pushing back on them.

I also feel bad for people being moved here and the unfortunate over booking it sounds like at CCV.

 

[robinb]

I think that what bothers me about this approach to the renovation moves is that Disney sells DVC as being a valued member of "The Club". You don't feel particularly valued when you are told to "like it or lump it". They don't usually treat their own guests resort that way. I have been moved from a closed resort twice (CBR->Polynesian and POFQ->AKL (the reason why we own at AKV ) and I was always given options when I got the call that I had to move. I would expect no less from DVC if they had availability somewhere else for people. Telling people that the only choices are to take the AKL room or cancel their reservation is not treating DVC members with the same consideration they extend to resort guests.

Now, I've been a DVC Member for a long time and I understand that DVC is not all Mickey Mouse, puppy dogs and rainbows no matter how they sell it. They are a timeshare with rules and regulations that allow them to make choices. But, just because DVC can do something doesn't mean that they should. And for those of you who think this is perfectly OK because it doesn't affect you personally or your bottom line, you are sorely short sighted.

 

[holyrita]

Apologies for interrupting the current discussion..

Just saw on a DVC Facebook group someone in a Jambo club level 1 bedroom with my exact dates, Sept 18-25, was called and told they were being moved.

I'm in a value studio, not CL or 1 bedroom, and I didn't think I was going to be moved, but maybe there's still a chance I will be.

 

[Sandisw]

No one is questioning the need for maintenance. People are (rightly IMO) pushing back on the idea that their reservations are being modified at the last minute, with minimal/no explanation why, with no alternatives offered.

I mean is it even confirmed (like from an official source like a bus driver or someone high up in the chain like that? ) that these reservation modifications are due to planned/unplanned maintenance? This thread veered in that direction but is it officially confirmed?

People being moved have reported that they have been told it is due to rooms taken out of service for maintenance reasons. I was told the same thing.

Again, IMO, these thing happen and the two month interruption based on dates shared supports that.

All my responses really were in response that it was done for nefarious reasons ( I don’t believe this) or that it should have been done at a different time as though the impact to those owners because it didn’t coincide with the 50th is any less of an issue.

In the end, no matter what has taken the rooms out of service or when, owners are impacted and that is something as owners we need to expect will happen from time to time.

 

[Sandisw]

Except just like Covid19 it's not about mine or your standards it's about the best interest of the membership of the whole.

DVC should be making sure Disney is not pulling any funny business and looking out for all members including the roughly 0.001% impacted by this movement at AKV this fall.



Exactly Disney can do lots of things it's DVC that needs to keep them in check that what they are doing is allowed and pushing back on them.

I also feel bad for people being moved here and the unfortunate over booking it sounds like at CCV.

Again, DVCMC manages our program. They have gotten into a contract with Disney for certain things. For example: Disney controls the running of the resorts and DVCMC can’t force Disney to do anything outside of that current contract.

You may not like the terms of those contracts as an owner, but they have hired Disney to perform certain tasks.

DVCMC doesn’t have the authority based on the documents I have to simply ignore or demand Disney services their own hotels based on what DVCMC wants.

I’ll just agree to disagree.

 

[crisi]

Except just like Covid19 it's not about mine or your standards it's about the best interest of the membership of the whole.

But how is this Disney's problem? You keep saying this is Disney's problem. But at best you've now stated its a problem for the membership as a whole (which I don't agree with). So why should Disney solve this issue? People buy the product without them solving this issue. Most of us add on points, and this issue has been happening for 30 years. Even if members are disappointed enough over this (and they won't be) to sell their contracts - they just resell them to another willing and eager Disney fan. Make a case for why when you push back you aren't just pushing against a brick wall.

 

[wnielsen1]

But how is this Disney's problem? You keep saying this is Disney's problem. But at best you've now stated its a problem for the membership as a whole (which I don't agree with). So why should Disney solve this issue? People buy the product without them solving this issue. Most of us add on points, and this issue has been happening for 30 years. Even if members are disappointed enough over this (and they won't be) to sell their contracts - they just resell them to another willing and eager Disney fan. Make a case for why when you push back you aren't just pushing against a brick wall.

I agree with this. If I'm going to pick a hill to make my last stand on, it won't be Jambogate part 2. Especially when there are points chart shenanigans going on.

 

[sethschroeder]

But how is this Disney's problem? You keep saying this is Disney's problem. But at best you've now stated its a problem for the membership as a whole (which I don't agree with). So why should Disney solve this issue?

I am not sure what you are not following. DVC should be pushing on Disney instead they are just pushing it on members instead.

Make a case for why when you push back you aren't just pushing against a brick wall.

Make what case? DVC should be like expected watching out for members best interest with their actions. Make a case where DVC should be looking to side with Disney on everything and look to take from members where ever they can?

Its a fairly simple: DVC should be looking out for membership and pushing on Disney /end

When members ask why they are being moved DVC should be able to outline what actions were taken and if its part of the contract that Disney can shut it down at their will for any reason then state that as such.

So I am not pushing against anything simply stating DVC right now seems to not be looking out for members best interest. Just goes along with other things like point inflation, ect.

I agree with this. If I'm going to pick a hill to make my last stand on, it won't be Jambogate part 2. Especially when there are points chart shenanigans going on.

Who is making a last stand? Its just part of the DVC is not looking out for the best interest of the membership. I didn't realize we could only have a single example at a time.

 

[crisi]

I am not sure what you are not following. DVC should be pushing on Disney instead they are just pushing it on members instead.



Make what case? DVC should be like expected watching out for members best interest with their actions. Make a case where DVC should be looking to side with Disney on everything and look to take from members where ever they can?

Its a fairly simple: DVC should be looking out for membership and pushing on Disney /end

When members ask why they are being moved DVC should be able to outline what actions were taken and if its part of the contract that Disney can shut it down at their will for any reason then state that as such.

So I am not pushing against anything simply stating DVC right now seems to not be looking out for members best interest. Just goes along with other things like point inflation, ect.

DVCMC is Disney. Why should Disney push Disney? Again - make a case that this is in DISNEY'S best interest. Not "would make members happy." That's a secondary factor.

 

[New Mouse]

DVCMC is Disney. Why should Disney push Disney? Again - make a case that this is in DISNEY'S best interest. Not "would make members happy." That's a secondary factor.

If you paid a lawyer to represent you in court and instead they just accepted the other sides answer, no questions or cross examination, would you still pay them?

 

[Eldon32]

I think the bottom line here is that technically DVC can close the rooms whenever they want to perform maintenance and do not have to offer you anything in regards to compensation or an explanation.

PDF (https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/en/collateral-docs/dakv-pos-rev-12_30_13.pdf) page 99, section 3.3.1: HDWHRC Rights gives the hotel part of AKV the ability to do *whatever* they want without restriction; regardless of how it affects DVC units.

Sometimes it can be confusing that member think they bought a hotel room; when you bought a lease on a property and all the risks that are associated with it. You get a discount on your accommodations for assuming the risks the hotel would normally. If the room is inhabitable due to adjacent construction - it's the responsibility of the member (as per the TOS) to take out their own insurance (PDF page 108, section 4.5).

In my opinion, if Disney is offering a hotel room at short notice out of their pocket (which they are not obligated to) for the purpose of maintaining the room - they've gone further then they need to. You would have to assume the reason they are even offering this is because they have nearly 1,000 hotel rooms to fill and the image protection is probably worth about the same as the room cost on the hotel side to them.

I would also offer that there are thousands of timeshares available that don't do maintenance on their properties; and they are virtually worthless. You can't give them away. I'm no Disney apologist by any means (see my posts on the increased points thread) - but I rather have them inconvenience a few (even if it's me) to protect the integrity and value of the program.

 

[crisi]

If you paid a lawyer to represent you in court and instead they just accepted the other sides answer, no questions or cross examination, would you still pay them?

Yes, because I contracted to. Hopefully, before I signed the contract, I did a bunch of research on the attorney and discovered that he was lousy in court and did this every single time - and would have picked a different attorney. Just like you have contracted to pay DVCMC. If you guys want to try and fire DVCMC over this, give it a go. If you want to withhold dues, you can try that as well. I don't think either of those things will end well for you. And if you want to complain, complain away - but don't think you are making this Disney's problem or doing anything other than wasting your breath. Hey, it can be fun to complain.

It would be career suicide for DVCMC customer satisfaction management to go up against Hotels over this. They wouldn't win, and they'd gain a reputation of not being a team player. While each of these divisions is different operating companies, management moves between operating companies as opportunities arise. It is in the personal interest of DVCMC management to make other Disney managers happy long before they make members happy.

The reality is that these issues will come up from time to time over the course of your membership, and Disney has a standard way of dealing with it that doesn't involve compensation or choice. That membership has complained about it each time it comes up, and to date, it hasn't changed. Disney has a solution they are happy with. Maybe this time it will be different.

Its disappointing to plan a big trip and secure a great reservation and have it not happen. I bet most of us cancelled something over Covid (my husband will not be taking his mother back to his birthplace in the Netherlands - the trip was supposed to be last year, and she aged a lot over the past fifteen months), we all know the feeling. But despite you wanting to make this Disney's problem, they aren't going to see it that way. Expecting more than you are offered is really only going to increase your dissatisfaction.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, because I contracted to. Hopefully, before I signed the contract, I did a bunch of research on the attorney and discovered that he was lousy in court and did this every single time - and would have picked a different attorney. Just like you have contracted to pay DVCMC. If you guys want to try and fire DVCMC over this, give it a go. If you want to withhold dues, you can try that as well. I don't think either of those things will end well for you. And if you want to complain, complain away - but don't think you are making this Disney's problem or doing anything other than wasting your breath. Hey, it can be fun to complain.

It would be career suicide for DVCMC customer satisfaction management to go up against Hotels over this. They wouldn't win, and they'd gain a reputation of not being a team player. While each of these divisions is different operating companies, management moves between operating companies as opportunities arise. It is in the personal interest of DVCMC management to make other Disney managers happy long before they make members happy.

The reality is that these issues will come up from time to time over the course of your membership, and Disney has a standard way of dealing with it that doesn't involve compensation or choice. That membership has complained about it each time it comes up, and to date, it hasn't changed. Disney has a solution they are happy with. Maybe this time it will be different.

Its disappointing to plan a big trip and secure a great reservation and have it not happen. I bet most of us cancelled something over Covid (my husband will not be taking his mother back to his birthplace in the Netherlands - the trip was supposed to be last year, and she aged a lot over the past fifteen months), we all know the feeling. But despite you wanting to make this Disney's problem, they aren't going to see it that way. Expecting more than you are offered is really only going to increase your dissatisfaction.

Which doesn’t that mean it still comes down to that no matter what pushback they did to change the time it was done owners are impacted?

Owners are all entitled to that same “membership first” so just not sure how the argument that doing it in the fall was worse for owners vs summer since the impacted rooms run 100% year round. No matter when some owners would need to be moved.