"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[bcla]

They weren't on duty as officers. Different story entirely.

They HAD signed up for this voluntary job providing security. As I said, I think they should have followed through with this one despite the players' "statement", for the sake of everyone at the event. Then be removed from the list for future events if they choose (which I would understand as a legitimate statement for them to make).

They were wearing the uniform of their department, which is allowed by policy. They weren't serving as mall security with outside uniforms. The public saw uniformed officers of the Minneapolis Police walking out, and that's what the Mayor responded to. And the Chief of Police.

http://www.startribune.com/minneapo...s-for-walking-off-job-at-lynx-game/386506061/

In a separate statement, [Chief] Harteau said that although the officers were off-duty at the time, she expects “all officers to adhere to our core values and to honor their oath of office” when in uniform.

“Walking off the job and defaulting on their contractual obligation to provide a service to the Lynx does not conform to the expectations held by the public for the uniform these officers wear,” she said. “While I do not condone the actions of the officers, I realize how every member of law enforcement throughout this country, including myself, is feeling right now.”

Minneapolis Police spokesman Scott Seroka said he did not know if the officers will face discipline. He added that police department administration can approve contracts for off-duty employment, but the chief cannot order officers to work those jobs.​

I've heard about these assignments. It's supposed to be a privilege and can be taken away. They can probably nix the ability of any officer who walked off from taking another off-duty job. They might even be discliplined officially. Here's their specific policy:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/policy/mpdpolicy_3-800_3-800

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

My Dad worked MANY an anti-police demonstration in his day. He was often called and asked to come in when they were short-staffed for these, and went every time.

The restraint that took on his part -- with people shouting and spitting in his face, calling him and his fellow officers all sorts of names, people sometimes throwing things at him -- I can't fully imagine it. He was adamant that this is part of what democracy is about, and that he played a critical role in helping to safeguard it.

And even with all of this -- and the back injuries, sleepless nights, etc, etc -- he always said about being an officer: "C'est la plus belle job au monde." -- "It's the best job in the world."

HOWEVER -- would he have signed on to do security work again (beyond that one job) for the WNBA in this case? I doubt it -- and I'd hope not. He handled enough on the job.

 

[bcla]

I think that assuming this would be a MASSIVE leap.

They walked off that contracting job; and won't return to it. In that sense it parallels anyone walking off a job for personal reasons and never intending to go back or get rehired. Because it's a security gig, while not REQUIRED for them to stay, I think they should have -- for this one.

They were wearing police uniforms. They might have even been using marked police cars. Won't department policy typically allow for departmental discipline for acts done (or not done) during off-duty work in uniform?

I've worked a job under contract before. I could have been sued for breach of contract for walking off on my own accord.

 

[Unas]

The WNBA is Pro.

That was an interesting miscue.

It's interesting . . . Lynx play in Minneapolis and their best player is from Baton Rouge. No surprise that those events were important to them. The shirt also included the several Dallas police departments.

I'm pleased the Chief spoke out against their behavior.

 

[bcla]

That was an interesting miscue.

It's interesting . . . Lynx play in Minneapolis and their best player is from Baton Rouge. No surprise that those events were important to them. The shirt also included the several Dallas police departments.

I'm pleased the Chief spoke out against their behavior.

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that somehow it's not related to their employing department or that walking off the job doesn't discredit their department. While theoretically a police officer must receive approval to work any off-duty assignment (even as a mall cop), this assignment required they work in uniform. Nobody looks at them as independent contractors upset about the conditions of their employment. The public sees police officers in department-issued uniforms and carrying department-issued equipment walking out because their feelings were hurt. This brings discredit to the department.

If anyone officer did this at a Timberwolves game as a protest of a player making a statement about the same incidents, I wouldn't be surprised if anyone was demoted, suspended, or possibly even fired. OTOH, unions are probably involved.

 

[roseaster]

CNN did a great job covering this situation today. They had the acclaimed civil rights activist, rapper Q Tip to analyze the situation.

Are you at all familiar with QTip and A Tribe Called Quest and their music and their messages? Do you dismiss him out of hand because he is a hip hop artist?

You might actually be quite surprised. He is very active in the community, and very active in Russell Simmons' Foundation for Ethnic Understanding.

It is a non profit that seeks to improve relations among different ethnic communities. Their hashtag is #wewillnotbeenemies.

It's a very positive organization.

 

[PollyannaMom]

That's because for good, better, or worse, I've never experienced an obviously "black" neighborhood that wasn't also a "bad" neighborhood. You can label that any way you wish, but it is what it is.

That's really sad.

As for clothing & such, please. We judge people we see based on their clothing, looks, the type of car they drive, the age & condition of the car, the people they associate with, etc, etc. We all do it. Is it wrong? Sure. But, the fact remains were I to see identical twins - one dressed like a gang banger & one like s school teacher, I'm not having identical initial reactions to them.

I agree that most people do judge based on clothes, but I don't think it's always wrong. If you are a shop keeper and give better service to someone in expensive clothes than to someone whose clothes are less expensive, yes, that's snobbish. But think being more scared of someone (of any color) dressed in gang insignia than of someone of the same color dressed in a suit is a different story. I don't think I could just override that instinct in order to be politically correct. (But it isn't about skin color. I'd still be way more scared of the self-identified gang member than the suit wearer if the gang member was white and the suit-wearer was black.)

Holding grudges for things that didn't happen to you against people that didn't do it, that's part of why society isn't moving forward.

I agree to a point. But I think it's important to realize that those old injustices caused a whole group of people who all of a sudden became "equal" to actually start off way behind. It takes a long time to catch up from that. Just because you theoretically have the same opportunities does not mean you're actually prepared to take advantage of them. I think many people do find a way, but that it's something we still need to work on.

I also believe that I said upthread that EVERYONE needs to examine their own ingrained prejudices, not just the police. It is a systemic and societal problem.

Good point. And it reminds me of question I've never felt comfortable asking. But I feel like a lot of people are being very honest here and wanting to help each other understand, so I'm going to try (for anyone to answer). Please forgive me if I don't word it exactly right:

My son told me one of his black friends was teased by another black student for "acting white" by trying to do well in school. Is this really a thing? And how do you feel about it?

 

[L&Lfan]

CNN did a great job covering this situation today. They had the acclaimed civil rights activist, rapper Q Tip to analyze the situation.

SHADE!

 

[JimMIA]

On the police "walkout" at the basketball game, the chief, mayor, and union president all said exactly what they get paid to say. The chief addressed the breach of discipline, the mayor spoke for the city administration, and the union guy stuck up for his officers.

I'm quite sure the police department will take a look at this situation. They can't just say "Oh well..." And I'm equally sure the officers knew that when they made the decision to walk out.

One of the things the chief will look at is whether there was any real effect of the officers walking out. Usually, athletes speak to the media after a game. If the officers just left 15 minutes early and there was no compromise of security, their actions were more theatrical than anything else. Still a breach of discipline, but not much real effect, if any.

I think the department will also realize that this action is an accurate reflection of the frustration their officers are feeling. I'm sure all of the police in the Twin Cities area are catching hell from all sides right now, and some of the frustration was bound to surface.

That's the part of this that worries me -- it's obvious to me that the officers and their families are under tremendous pressure right now. They're having to work a lot of overtime because of the potentially violent demonstrations, having dozens of officers injured by protesters (27 in one protest), being criticized by everyone who can draw a crowd of reporters, etc. If this incident is the worst of the reaction from the LE community, the community will be lucky.

If things get much worse, the police agencies in the Twin Cities area will see an exodus of officers -- and many who leave will be their best people. And as someone correctly observed above, this will also haunt the police recruiting effort for years to come in that area. Who wants to be a cop there??? We had both of those scenarios here in Miami in the 1980's and it took us more than ten years to recover.

So if the chief is smart, he'll take a deep breath, wait until things settle down a bit, and then take some minor, symbolic action -- like maybe temporarily suspending the officers from off duty work for a while.

The department will also be constrained by city and departmental disciplinary protocols and their union contract. Minnesota is a VERY strong union state, particularly in the public sector -- so there will be some significant limits on what they can do and how they do it.

In the grand scheme of the cosmos, this is not that big a deal and probably will not be treated as more than it really is.

 

[gwynne]

The Denver Post has a series of photographs from the memorial yesterday. I think the photos do a very nice job of capturing both the grace and unity of purpose that was central to the day.
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/12/memorial-for-police-officers-killed-in-dallas-photos/

 

[bcla]

On the police "walkout" at the basketball game, the chief, mayor, and union president all said exactly what they get paid to say. The chief addressed the breach of discipline, the mayor spoke for the city administration, and the union guy stuck up for his officers.

I'm quite sure the police department will take a look at this situation. They can't just say "Oh well..." And I'm equally sure the officers knew that when they made the decision to walk out.

One of the things the chief will look at is whether there was any real effect of the officers walking out. Usually, athletes speak to the media after a game. If the officers just left 15 minutes early and there was no compromise of security, their actions were more theatrical than anything else. Still a breach of discipline, but not much real effect, if any.

I think the department will also realize that this action is an accurate reflection of the frustration their officers are feeling. I'm sure all of the police in the Twin Cities area are catching hell from all sides right now, and some of the frustration was bound to surface.

That's the part of this that worries me -- it's obvious to me that the officers and their families are under tremendous pressure right now. They're having to work a lot of overtime because of the potentially violent demonstrations, having dozens of officers injured by protesters (27 in one protest), being criticized by everyone who can draw a crowd of reporters, etc. If this incident is the worst of the reaction from the LE community, the community will be lucky.

If things get much worse, the police agencies in the Twin Cities area will see an exodus of officers -- and many who leave will be their best people. And as someone correctly observed above, this will also haunt the police recruiting effort for years to come in that area. Who wants to be a cop there??? We had both of those scenarios here in Miami in the 1980's and it took us more than ten years to recover.

So if the chief is smart, he'll take a deep breath, wait until things settle down a bit, and then take some minor, symbolic action -- like maybe temporarily suspending the officers from off duty work for a while.

The department will also be constrained by city and departmental disciplinary protocols and their union contract. Minnesota is a VERY strong union state, particularly in the public sector -- so there will be some significant limits on what they can do and how they do it.

In the grand scheme of the cosmos, this is not that big a deal and probably will not be treated as more than it really is.

The Chief of Police in Minneapolis is a she.

The speech was before the game started, on the playing floor, and not at a post-game press conference. The players wore those black shirts during their warmup session. The walkout happened before the game started.

I realized that the union could possibly affect how much discipline could be applied, but at the very least I would think their privilege to work off-duty jobs could be rescinded. It's a bad look when it appears that uniformed police officers can walk off a job at will.

 

[JimMIA]

The Chief of Police in Minneapolis is a she.

Ooops...my bad!

The speech was before the game started, on the playing floor, and not at a post-game press conference. The players wore those black shirts during their warmup session. The walkout happened before the game started.

OK. The timing is a minor issue anyway; more something they might say as a defense that really wouldn't matter anyway. The key issue is their abandoning their positions, and the challenge that represents.

I realized that the union could possibly affect how much discipline could be applied, but at the very least I would think their privilege to work off-duty jobs could be rescinded. It's a bad look when it appears that uniformed police officers can walk off a job at will.

Not "could possibly affect..." Definitely will affect -- as they should. Protection from management is one of the main reasons workers form unions.

And from the management side, the walkoff is a breach of discipline and a challenge to the management of the department -- so yeah, the chief definitely has to respond in some manner. Hopefully she'll keep her perspective and make her response a positive part of the community healing that must take place.

 

[phillyprincess39]

Its funny, I keep reading the same adjectives being used throughout this thread to put down Black Lives Matter: violent, disrespectful, unlawful, divisive, aggressive, rowdy, criminal. Do you think it is a coincidence that these are the same prejudices often associated with blacks, and black men in particular? The same prejudices in fact, that BLM is trying to address? The same prejudices that may lead to, consciously or subconsciously, black men being treated differently in similar situations, and even killed in some instances? The same prejudices that may have led to Trayvon Martin's death?

Speaking of which, I also see the same specific instances being b

With this thread - especially the title - you are proving exactly why there needs to be BLM movement. Racism at it's finest.

Yes I dont understand we cant talk politics or religion but this thread just keeps going....and its really pointless because the BLM mivement is not going to stop because some butt hurt white people dont believe in the cause....actually in trying to prove how bad BLM movement is you really just solidified the need for the movement.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes I dont understand we cant talk politics or religion but this thread just keeps going....and its really pointless because the BLM mivement is not going to stop because some butt hurt white people dont believe in the cause....actually in trying to prove how bad BLM movement is you really just solidified the need for the movement.

???

4 out of your 5 TOTAL posts are in this thread... trolling to shut it down??

 

[bcla]

Not "could possibly affect..." Definitely will affect -- as they should. Protection from management is one of the main reasons workers form unions.

And from the management side, the walkoff is a breach of discipline and a challenge to the management of the department -- so yeah, the chief definitely has to respond in some manner. Hopefully she'll keep her perspective and make her response a positive part of the community healing that must take place.

It depends though. Near where I live there was an interesting issue with a small department, a personal trip to Reno, a $75 hooker, and a stolen badge and gun that ended up in the hands of a pimp who proceeded to shoot his foot with it. I mean really small with less than 15 officers. And they had a union, which I thought this officer headed. This guy lost his detective status, but is still employed as a sergeant. Strike that, he just got demoted again, but still has his job.

I'm not making this up.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

This is incorrect. There are three ways someone can be charged -- the most common way is an arrest by a law enforcement officer, a prosecutor can directly file charges, or a grand jury can return a true bill (indictment). But even if a grand jury declines to indict, either the prosecutor or police could still file charges.

True, but it will be an uphill battle.

You only need a majority for a grand jury. And the defense doesn't present their side of the case.

Take it to petit jury, where you need it to be unanimous, and the defense is there?

Well, most prosecutors know that they will have to be on their toes to try something like that.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well, thought everyone hated cancer. Maybe, they don't

..and its really pointless because the BLM mivement is not going to stop because some butt hurt white people dont believe in the cause....actually in trying to prove how bad BLM movement is you really just solidified the need for the movement.

What has this movement accomplished?

 

[DizBelle]

First of all, THANK YOU for pondering my post. The fact that you are thinking about the issue, and about your perspective and feelings, and why you feel the way you do... we all have to do that. That is the only way we are going to move forward in this conversation. In regards to your statement, thats exactly my point... I don't think Black Lives Matter is blaming another race. We aren't saying racist cops are murdering black men for no reason. I think they are saying that the for many reasons, police officers might approach or react differently to different people for different reasons. A lone, thin, beautiful white woman in her mid 20's being pulled over in a 1996 honda civic is unlikely to raise apprehension in an approaching officer. But a lone. black male, large and tattooed driving a 1996 honda civic might raise different feeling in the officer. Does this mean he is racist? No. We are human beings. Lets be clear, Blacks, and Black Men particularly, have been portrayed in a very specific way over the last 300 years. There are certain connotations and perceptions we all have... that we are ALL responsible for. This is what we need to address. Personally I believe it all comes down to fear. I believe many of these police truly fear for there lives when committing these murders. But why? Why are they more likely to fear a Black man? What can we do to help change that? What can we all do? Individually and as a nation?

Regarding your statistics... you said about 120 officers die a year in the line of duty. THIS YEAR ALONE 123 BLACK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHOT AND KILLED BY POLICE. There have been 512 shooting deaths total that law enforcement is responsible for!!! And the year is barely halfway over....

I've heard that Black Lives Matter is racist, divisionist, violent and evil. But to me this is what Black Lives Matter keeps screaming, "Please help us. We are being treated unfairly and we need your help. Lets all come together. PLEASE HELP US ALL TRULY BECOME EQUALS."

TD Jakes said it better than I ever could. We want peace and healing. For people to stop dying. We HAVE to work TOGETHER in order to make that happen.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/article88614297.html


View attachment 181022View attachment 181023

Wait, of the 512 shooting deaths by police this year, 123 have been black. That means that 389 were NOT black. Does that mean that BLM has succeeded and they can go away now?

 

[DizBelle]

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech. BLM started as a hashtag to bring awareness to the unnecessary violence, pro-filing, and unfair due justice of the court system and became a platform or movement to demand due process of the law. Not all people who associate with the BLM are right and some are plain wrong, but it doesn't detract from the fact that racial profiling and unfair due process of African American by police officers and the justice system exists. Until you live 1 day in our lives, how could you make that judgement and say that this issue doesn't exists. This forum is one of the only places I have left to escape from the daily humdrum life. Please dont let this thread become a platform for hate.

This is a discussion forum. If you don't want to discuss, you don't have to. Move along to some other thread.

I feel that the discussion in this thread has been civil and that's saying something for a 43 page thread.

 

[DizBelle]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The movement itself excludes:

"Black Lives Matter activists are slamming the Nashville Public Library’s anti-discrimination policies as racist after they were banned from holding meetings that excluded white people."

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/22/black-lives-matter-slams-public-librarys-racist-ba/

The organization (or at least this group) that says it's against racism is racist itself? But they are saying that the library is racist? Do they really not get it?