"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[FlightlessDuck]

The flip side of that however is that when a civilian kills a cop there is no way that was just an honest mistake or an accident. However if an officer shoots a suspect it could be:

Either way, a human being is still dead.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I guess you can call it what you want, but the proof is that what BLM is doing is NOT accomplishing anything helpful. As shown here on the DIS, BLM is not held in high regard. The CAUSE is, but not the group due to their methods. And maybe it would be better if they were called Association of Americans for Equality in Police Treatment. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but it would fit. Then blacks, lgbt, sherpa's and anyone else would be represented by the word "American".

There's no way you can think the DIS( a predominantly white, middle class, conservative group) is representative of how the rest of the country views this.

 

[kamik86]

Either way, a human being is still dead.

However as said above sometimes the best thing an officer can do is kill someone before they cause any futher damage. Sometimes that really is the only option and you don't want to make policies that make them more likely to hestitate to do that if that is what needs to be done. So you have to take each case as it comes and investigate it. Which means that looking at if the victium provoked the attack and made the officer act rationally.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

There's no way you can think the DIS( a predominantly white, middle class, conservative group) is representative of how the rest of the country views this.

Don't forget female. I think I remember reading we were 32% male. That might have been 5 or 6 years ago.

 

[kellyjeanie]

That's true. Show an example of some good that has come from their protests. I'm asking seriously, because while I admittedly do not live in a large city, I have seen nothing to indicate there have been any real changes to anything due to their style of protesting. Maybe there have been changes, and if so, I'd like to know what they are.

We're all talking about it. Without the protests making national news, this issue would still be below the radar, with those of us that it doesn't affect still unaware of the issues they are bringing to light.

 

[pat fan]

Perhaps this has been posted before I started reading hte thread--but in light of several posters saying the official BLM movement condones violence and incites it I looked it up a little bit (given that I had not even realized it was an official group and not just a phrase being adopted by many protestors) and here is, at least, their statement about the Dallas police shooting as reported by CNN.

I don't think anyone thinks BLM had anything to do with, nor condones (except one or two nutcases) what happened in Dallas. In the very first hours I am sure there was speculation about it having ties to the rally, but I think it was cleared up pretty quickly that he wasn't involved with them.

Now as for other rallies and spokespeople not condoning violence. I don't know. There seems to be an awful lot of them that wind up with looting, things being thrown (from bottles to bricks to rocks) etc...I understand there is frustration, but how does screaming in an officers face, who is doing nothing but his/her job, doing anything to encourage a change in behavior? Or more importantly, a change in the heart?

 

[taitai]

That's true. Show an example of some good that has come from their protests. I'm asking seriously, because while I admittedly do not live in a large city, I have seen nothing to indicate there have been any real changes to anything due to their style of protesting. Maybe there have been changes, and if so, I'd like to know what they are.

Well, people are talking about the issues for one. This 25 page DISNEY board discussion of the issues is a great example. How many people reading this and posting had their eyes opened about the every day issues Black Americans face when dealing with law enforcement? As many people on this discussion have stated, especially those who espouse an All Lives Matter movement, we all need to discuss the issues and work toghether. This has been a start.

All Presidential candidates are now talking the issue and highlighting it in their campaign platforms. So, that is something.

Black Americans have discovered that they need to provide witness to these actions and hence you are seeing more and more videos and photos of the times they have been treated unfairly. I don't know if that would have happened had the BLM movement not encouraged them to do so. That also helps educate and highlight the issues so they are easier to address.

 

[cabanafrau]

We have somewhere close to a million sworn law enforcement officers in this country, and it's likely that there are going to be some that make errors. It's also impossible to know for sure - regardless of how effective their training - how every officer is going to react under the pressure of every possible unique scenario. So as a society we are going to have to accept that accidents and some errors in judgment are going to occur. You can't have a million employees that all perform flawlessly.

So we have to be careful about any urge to make sweeping changes based solely on a handful of specific events. We have to make sure we don't put more officers at risk by making them take greater risks before they can use deadly force - or criminalize errors in judgment or accidents.

What's sure to be helpful to everyone, law enforcement included, is to try to select the best possible people to put into the job of law enforcement, and then train them the best we possibly can. That should help avoid as many errors as possible. I agree, even a good officer can make mistakes and we cannot simply punish every legitimate mistake. Doctors frequently have to make judgment calls and take actions that have the potential for life and death also. Sometimes the best efforts and the best judgment will have tragic results that shouldn't automatically make them criminally liable.

I think it can potentially help a lot if our law enforcement officers can be more woven into the fabric of the communities they serve as much as possible. I'm not sure exactly how best to achieve that, but I do think there is less potential to see a motorist pulled over in a traffic stop as a potential threat when the officer walks up to see the guy he doesn't "know" but sees at the diner several mornings a week reading his newspaper and having breakfast or the kid from the Cyclone soccer team at the wheel. If officers have more opportunity to see citizens they come across on patrol in a neighborly light, and vice versa, it can only help to avoid the feelings of anxiety, fear and menace that result in tragedy too often.

 

[ASchwa]

Perhaps this has been posted before I started reading hte thread--but in light of several posters saying the official BLM movement condones violence and incites it I looked it up a little bit (given that I had not even realized it was an official group and not just a phrase being adopted by many protestors) and here is, at least, their statement about the Dallas police shooting as reported by CNN. it does not sound like inciting violence to me at all:

"Black Lives Matter protesters condemned the Dallas killings, calling the attack on law enforcement a tragedy not just for those affected but also for the nation.
"Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. (Thursday's) attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman," the group said.
"To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us."


and you know, many people claimed the civil rights movement of the 60s and the women's rights movements at the turn of the last century and again in the 70s devisive---often those who like the status quo see anything aimed at changing it as devisive--so far I see more devisive rhetoric from the side that wants to protect teh status quo than otherwise--and while that may be in reaction to the BLM movement, I don't think that makes the movement devisive--it just means people who are already included tend to get defensive when told they might be being exclusionary.
Though, again, I admit to not having looked into specific people and leaders in any sort of detail.

Let me tell of an incident that led to no one being killed, but a police officer lost his job anyway due to BLM. June 2015 in McKinney, Texas. School year ended that day. In a gated community one of the home owners had a party. According to the poster shared on social media about the party was food, music and pool. Loads of kids came to this party, and when they wanted to go to the pool, they were using the same card to get into the pool area. Being kids they acted out. When it got out of hand the security for the gated community called Police. When one officer got there he told the kids to get out and those that didn't listen he handcuffed. One of the first to be handcuffed was a white girl. This is on video that a couple of teenage boys were handcuffed were black and on the video you hear the officer saying why didn't you leave instead of coming back. Then the video documents a girl in a bikini being handcuffed. She is crying for her mama and what everyone didn't notice was that three times before she was told to leave, she came back anyway. The officer does take out his gun because two young men were behind him and touched him. They arrested those men.

Few facts about what happened that weren't evident. The officer had come from two incidents. One was an attempted suicide, the other was a death. The person giving the party had no permission from the HOA of the community to use the pool. She never asked. So to excuse what she did she blamed racism on the people who lived in the community, that she got into an altercation with someone because of racist attitudes. BLM came in because a father in that community, his daughter is seen in the video, she was not handcuffed, and kept up the cry that the officer was racist. Then when the video was shown, over and over on all the news outlets, there were opinions that instead of looking at what actually happened started about the racism that like in the 1950s how Blacks were not allowed in the pool. After 2 days of this the officer was fired. At the time BLM was protesting and saying that the officer was out of control. All this is documented, and people were riled up, but all of it was a lie and a person lost his job and some residents of that community were harassed. This is what BLM does.

 

[pat fan]

There's no way you can think the DIS( a predominantly white, middle class, conservative group) is representative of how the rest of the country views this.

Well, I don't consider the DIS to be conservative, but yes, I do assume it's mostly female which I have always thought was a group much more inclined to want to stop unwarranted violence than men, and more sensitive to oppression than men.

I guess I never thought about what % of certain races people on the Dis were. I know they come from everywhere and assumed (bad on me) that color was across the board. I tend not to think in terms of race and color, people are people, and in previous discussions I was in there seemed to be a good representation of white/black perspectives.

Maybe I should clarify that in my day to day conversations, in real life and on the internet, BLM is not generally viewed as "helpful" in achieving much in the way of progress.

 

[Hikergirl]

ASchwa, was that the incident where the girl was thrown down violently, and I believed kneeled on her back by the PO? If so he didn't lose his job because of BLM, he lost his job because he used excessive force on a teen girl.

He resigned, he didn't lose his job, he left it.

Here is the video
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/7/8744011/mckinney-texas-police-officer

How can anyone that watches this and sees what he does to that girl think somehow BLM was the cause of him "losing" his job. He should have been fired, but he probably knew that and resigned first.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Let me tell of an incident that led to no one being killed, but a police officer lost his job anyway due to BLM. June 2015 in McKinney, Texas. School year ended that day. In a gated community one of the home owners had a party. According to the poster shared on social media about the party was food, music and pool. Loads of kids came to this party, and when they wanted to go to the pool, they were using the same card to get into the pool area. Being kids they acted out. When it got out of hand the security for the gated community called Police. When one officer got there he told the kids to get out and those that didn't listen he handcuffed. One of the first to be handcuffed was a white girl. This is on video that a couple of teenage boys were handcuffed were black and on the video you hear the officer saying why didn't you leave instead of coming back. Then the video documents a girl in a bikini being handcuffed. She is crying for her mama and what everyone didn't notice was that three times before she was told to leave, she came back anyway. The officer does take out his gun because two young men were behind him and touched him. They arrested those men.

Few facts about what happened that weren't evident. The officer had come from two incidents. One was an attempted suicide, the other was a death. The person giving the party had no permission from the HOA of the community to use the pool. She never asked. So to excuse what she did she blamed racism on the people who lived in the community, that she got into an altercation with someone because of racist attitudes. BLM came in because a father in that community, his daughter is seen in the video, she was not handcuffed, and kept up the cry that the officer was racist. Then when the video was shown, over and over on all the news outlets, there were opinions that instead of looking at what actually happened started about the racism that like in the 1950s how Blacks were not allowed in the pool. After 2 days of this the officer was fired. At the time BLM was protesting and saying that the officer was out of control. All this is documented, and people were riled up, but all of it was a lie and a person lost his job and some residents of that community were harassed. This is what BLM does.

I recall that situation quite clearly--and it made international headlines. I am not aware of the BLM organization spefically calling for that officer to be fired, but perhaps they did? Do you have a link?

What i do know is that m any officers wrote about it and MANY stated this person was out of line in how he performed. MANY tha i read (and the few i know personally, all felt tehy did not want to be represented by someone who can snap like that in a nonviolent basic event invovling teens. Were the kids brats? Yes. Would I have nsappedß Probably--but then I am not a police officer for many reasons: I get that he snapped after other hard things on teh job. personally--if you go back and find hte DIS thread here about it, I am almost positive that I did not necesairly think he should be fired (unless there was more history I was unaware of) but that he clearly needed some time off from working with the public, more trianing and that there needs ot be a system for police who have been through such trying daysand need a break to get one BEFORE they snap--he made a bad situation much worse, rather than better, IMO.

 

[gwynne]

Well, I don't consider the DIS to be conservative, but yes, I do assume it's mostly female which I have always thought was a group much more inclined to want to stop unwarranted violence than men, and more sensitive to oppression than men.

I guess I never thought about what % of certain races people on the Dis were. I know they come from everywhere and assumed (bad on me) that color was across the board. I tend not to think in terms of race and color, people are people, and in previous discussions I was in there seemed to be a good representation of white/black perspectives.

Maybe I should clarify that in my day to day conversations, in real life and on the internet, BLM is not generally viewed as "helpful" in achieving much in the way of progress.

While posting on the DIS is fun, it's in no way a statistically correct sampling.
And for the part in boldface, self-segregation is nothing new. It's been around a long time.

 

[taitai]

Let me tell of an incident that led to no one being killed, but a police officer lost his job anyway due to BLM. June 2015 in McKinney, Texas. School year ended that day. In a gated community one of the home owners had a party. According to the poster shared on social media about the party was food, music and pool. Loads of kids came to this party, and when they wanted to go to the pool, they were using the same card to get into the pool area. Being kids they acted out. When it got out of hand the security for the gated community called Police. When one officer got there he told the kids to get out and those that didn't listen he handcuffed. One of the first to be handcuffed was a white girl. This is on video that a couple of teenage boys were handcuffed were black and on the video you hear the officer saying why didn't you leave instead of coming back. Then the video documents a girl in a bikini being handcuffed. She is crying for her mama and what everyone didn't notice was that three times before she was told to leave, she came back anyway. The officer does take out his gun because two young men were behind him and touched him. They arrested those men.

Few facts about what happened that weren't evident. The officer had come from two incidents. One was an attempted suicide, the other was a death. The person giving the party had no permission from the HOA of the community to use the pool. She never asked. So to excuse what she did she blamed racism on the people who lived in the community, that she got into an altercation with someone because of racist attitudes. BLM came in because a father in that community, his daughter is seen in the video, she was not handcuffed, and kept up the cry that the officer was racist. Then when the video was shown, over and over on all the news outlets, there were opinions that instead of looking at what actually happened started about the racism that like in the 1950s how Blacks were not allowed in the pool. After 2 days of this the officer was fired. At the time BLM was protesting and saying that the officer was out of control. All this is documented, and people were riled up, but all of it was a lie and a person lost his job and some residents of that community were harassed. This is what BLM does.

Well, if he was not fit to serve that day, he should have been pulled. The Chief of the McKinney Police Department himself said the officer was out of control and his actions were indefensible and did not reflect the high standard the police department had with all of the obscenities he shouted at the black kids at the party as well as, obviously, pulling out his gun, shoving the girl to the ground, etc. Some of the white kids at the party indicated that the officer treated the black kids much more harshly. Also, the officer resigned (probably under pressure) but was not fired.

 

[pat fan]

And for the part in boldface, self-segregation is nothing new. It's been around a long time.

Clarify, please. I assume you mean this at me and I'm trying to figure out why and to what purpose without jumping to conclusions.

 

[CPanther95]

Well, I don't consider the DIS to be conservative

I don't think even Hugo Chavez would consider the DIS conservative.

 

[kamik86]

Well, if he was not fit to serve that day, he should have been pulled. The Chief of the McKinney Police Department himself said the officer was out of control and his actions were indefensible and did not reflect the high standard the police department had with all of the obscenities he shouted at the black kids at the party as well as, obviously, pulling out his gun, shoving the girl to the ground, etc. Some of the white kids at the party indicated that the officer treated the black kids much more harshly. Also, the officer resigned (probably under pressure) but was not fired.

How many communitees would be ok with their taxes being raised to hire more officers so they can be pulled? Officers sometimes have to work crazy overtime and they really don't get the option to say "I'm having a really bad day I can't deal with that call".

This actually reminds me of something I read from a nurse that said that although it sounded great to make a mandatory nurses can only work X number of hours per day that the result of that was actually more mistakes espeically for a while. Places were grossly understaffed and they didn't have enough time to explain what had happened that day with all the patients and some really bad mistakes were made, much worse then the ones that were being made due to overtired nurses. Now eventually it got better and maybe that is a good thing... but don't think its so easy to just say the officer shouldn't have been there.


Then there is the idea that many people have diffiferent views of reasonable. What should he have done arrested her? You do realize some teenagers have realized that no one can really actually do anything to you if you misbehave so they can do whatever they want. "If they call the police they won't arrest me unless I go over X line and they can't do anything but tell me to leave and I can just keep coming back.... "

 

[cabanafrau]

There's no way you can think the DIS( a predominantly white, middle class, conservative group) is representative of how the rest of the country views this.

I'd love to know how you can possibly know each of those factors predominate this site and would suggest you've displayed an interesting insight into bias right there. Reading quite a few threads here I absolutely find liberal viewpoints strongly represented and supported. Judging by a wide amount of what I've seen on the budget board and theme parks board I'm not so sure a lot of people are in fact middle class. As far as the racial makeup, I'm not always sure about what race someone is unless they specifically identify themselves, which is similar to evaluating gender.

 

[ASchwa]

ASchwa, was that the incident where the girl was thrown down violently, and I believed kneeled on her back by the PO? If so he didn't lose his job because of BLM, he lost his job because he used excessive force on a teen girl.

He resigned, he didn't lose his job, he left it.

He was forced to resign, and look at the video, she kept coming back when she was told to leave. Also, read about Tatiana Rhodes, she was grooming that girl to become a prostitute. She resisted being handcuffed. BLM was there, look it up. They were protesting and the department gave in forcing the officer to resign. Apparently you missed the coverage that showed BLM there, and the fact that the father was on MSNBC with his daughter. Maybe you ought to read what actually happened instead of a video which shows nothing.

 

[disneyjunkie]

%

Let me tell of an incident that led to no one being killed, but a police officer lost his job anyway due to BLM. June 2015 in McKinney, Texas. School year ended that day. In a gated community one of the home owners had a party. According to the poster shared on social media about the party was food, music and pool. Loads of kids came to this party, and when they wanted to go to the pool, they were using the same card to get into the pool area. Being kids they acted out. When it got out of hand the security for the gated community called Police. When one officer got there he told the kids to get out and those that didn't listen he handcuffed. One of the first to be handcuffed was a white girl. This is on video that a couple of teenage boys were handcuffed were black and on the video you hear the officer saying why didn't you leave instead of coming back. Then the video documents a girl in a bikini being handcuffed. She is crying for her mama and what everyone didn't notice was that three times before she was told to leave, she came back anyway. The officer does take out his gun because two young men were behind him and touched him. They arrested those men.

Few facts about what happened that weren't evident. The officer had come from two incidents. One was an attempted suicide, the other was a death. The person giving the party had no permission from the HOA of the community to use the pool. She never asked. So to excuse what she did she blamed racism on the people who lived in the community, that she got into an altercation with someone because of racist attitudes. BLM came in because a father in that community, his daughter is seen in the video, she was not handcuffed, and kept up the cry that the officer was racist. Then when the video was shown, over and over on all the news outlets, there were opinions that instead of looking at what actually happened started about the racism that like in the 1950s how Blacks were not allowed in the pool. After 2 days of this the officer was fired. At the time BLM was protesting and saying that the officer was out of control. All this is documented, and people were riled up, but all of it was a lie and a person lost his job and some residents of that community were harassed. This is what BLM does.

I saw that video and the way that young lady was treated was WRONG. A teenager in a bikini is not a threat to a grown *** man with a gun. The other officers there were calm but stern.