"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[tinatark]

Freddie Gray, Walter Scott, Rumain Brisbon, Tamir Rice, Akai Gurley, Tanisha Anderson, Dante Parker, Ezell Ford, John Crawford, Eric Garner to name a few. Not warranted.

Of the cases listed, two, maybe 3 were criminal offenses. Most of them, although sad cases, were warranted.

 

[kandb]

Trayvon Martin is actually very important in terms of pointing out institutional racism in law enforcement.

On February 26, 2012 Trayvon Martin was, initially, thought to be suspicious because he was a young, black man walking, unarmed, in a neighborhood where someone didn't think he belonged. He was, ultimately, killed because of it.

George Zimmerman was subjected to only routine questioning and released, on the night of Trayvon's murder because it was accepted by law enforcement that a young black man walking in that neighborhood was suspicious and warranted shooting.

There was no decent investigation started until there was public outrage. George Zimmerman was not charged until April 11th. A month and a half after the murder of Trayvon, and then onl

Trayvon Martin is actually very important in terms of pointing out institutional racism in law enforcement.

On February 26, 2012 Trayvon Martin was, initially, thought to be suspicious because he was a young, black man walking, unarmed, in a neighborhood where someone didn't think he belonged. He was, ultimately, killed because of it.

George Zimmerman was subjected to only routine questioning and released, on the night of Trayvon's murder because it was accepted by law enforcement that a young black man walking in that neighborhood was suspicious and warranted shooting.

There was no decent investigation started until there was public outrage. George Zimmerman was not charged until April 11th. A month and a half after the murder of Trayvon, and then only after public outcry.

Had Trayvon Martin been a young, unarmed white man does anyone truly believe that Zimmerman would have strolled out of the police station free as a bird on the same night he killed him?

Had Trayvon been white does anyone really believe that the Sanford PD wouldn't have launched a thorough investigation into the murder immediately?

Had Trayvon been white does anyone truly believe it would have been a month and a half before any charges were brought against George Zimmerman? Especially since the police knew he instigated the encounter because they have the 911 transcripts where he was clearly told not to approach him?

I, honestly, cannot believe the blatant prejudice and bigotry that has been displayed on this thread. People of color, and people who know people of color have repeatedly tried to illustrate real life instances of institutional racism in law enforcement and have been called liars.

The whole purpose of this thread was to tell people who want to remind people that their life matters, too, that they are "crap."

Many, many people from many walks of life are telling you, "This is my experience, these are my feelings because of it," and you are telling them it is "crap."

I wish a lot of posters on this thread could read what they wrote and see what is truly in their hearts.

George Zimmerman was not White. He was also not convicted of the crime against Trayvon Martin. You can't blame the police, he was not convicted by a jury of his peers.

 

[JimMIA]

Trayvon Martin is actually very important in terms of pointing out institutional racism in law enforcement.

On February 26, 2012 Trayvon Martin was, initially, thought to be suspicious because he was a young, black man walking, unarmed, in a neighborhood where someone didn't think he belonged. He was, ultimately, killed because of it.

George Zimmerman was subjected to only routine questioning and released, on the night of Trayvon's murder because it was accepted by law enforcement that a young black man walking in that neighborhood was suspicious and warranted shooting.

There was no decent investigation started until there was public outrage. George Zimmerman was not charged until April 11th. A month and a half after the murder of Trayvon, and then only after public outcry.

You obviously have never served as a homicide investigator and have no idea what goes into a murder investigation -- and that is not your fault.

But you're making the same faulty assumptions that the Mayor and State Attorney in Baltimore made...although you are making those mistakes in good faith, with honest intent, not for political gain.

The Sanford, FL police did exactly what they should have done with George Zimmerman -- get his initial story and evaluate. They had ONE witness, and it was too early to have any physical evidence...which is everything in a murder investigation.

You don't make a murder case in one night -- you make it over time...if, in fact, there is a case.

Zimmerman gave an account that he was acting as a volunteer crime watch person , saw Martin acting strangely, called the police (true) and followed him. Zimmerman said Martin surprised him, attacked him, and was on top of him beating him with his fists. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense.

At that very early point in the investigation, the police had nothing further to go on. They needed to do a lot of further investigation. Their assessment the night of the shooting was that they did not have sufficient probable cause to charge Zimmerman with anything. And they were right -- they had no case at that point. None.

They released Zimmerman, and that was absolutely the right thing to do -- even if they didn't believe him at that point. If they had arrested him at that point, they would have trashed their case completely.

They continued their inquiry -- but unfortunately there was a great public outcry, including political interference at the highest possible level.

Eventually the physical evidence came in, and it showed the following: Zimmerman was lying on his back with Martin on top of him. A physical struggle had occurred and Zimmerman had suffered minor injuries consistent with his account of the struggle. The gunshot that killed Martin was fired upward, at close range but not hard contact -- again, exactly consistent with Zimmerman's story.

Absent any eyewitnesses who actually saw the struggle (and there were none), the police had no case and they knew it. They completed their investigation and took their findings to the State's Attorney, which was the proper thing to do.

The State Attorney was in an awkward position. There was a lot of publicity, the President had made some terribly unwise statements prejudicial to the potential defendant, and all of the physical evidence supported the defendant's statements.

But still...there was the matter of public trust. The State Attorney did the right thing. He took the case to a Grand Jury, knowing they would indict an innocent man, who would be acquitted, because public trust outweighed justice. It was an awful decision to have to make, but it was the right decision.

Not surprisingly, the jury acquitted George Zimmerman. They had no choice -- he committed no crime. He acted in legitimate self-defense, regardless of how stupid he was getting into this mess.

I'm sorry for Travon Martin's family. They are from my home town, and everything I have seen of them tells me they are decent people.

Zimmerman's an idiot. Travon Martin made a stupid mistake in attacking him.

This is a tragic case in many ways -- but there is no crime here.

I, honestly, cannot believe the blatant prejudice and bigotry that has been displayed on this thread. People of color, and people who know people of color have repeatedly tried to illustrate real life instances of institutional racism in law enforcement and have been called liars.

The whole purpose of this thread was to tell people who want to remind people that their life matters, too, that they are "crap."

Many, many people from many walks of life are telling you, "This is my experience, these are my feelings because of it," and you are telling them it is "crap."

I wish a lot of posters on this thread could read what they wrote and see what is truly in their hearts.

I understand you feeling that way, but I honestly don't think that is the way most posters here -- on both sides, and in the middle -- have approached this situation. I really think we're all trying to process this, which is very difficult considering the week we've just been through.

We're 13 pages into this thread and it's been pretty civil and respectful so far. I think we're all working through this the best we can.

 

[kandb]

In 13 pages of posts, it's sad that all the anti-police posting, not one of the anti-police posters has not mentioned the poor 5 Dallas officers that were assassinated 2 days ago. Doesn't seem like that is a big deal, only mentioned is the other shootings, let's not forget about the assassination of the 2 NYPD officers last year also and the attempted assassination of a Minnesota police officer today. Guess their lives don't matter as much to be mentioned.

 

[taitai]

Of the cases listed, two, maybe 3 were criminal offenses. Most of them, although sad cases, were warranted.

Which ones? Please explain.

 

[taitai]

In 13 pages of posts, it's sad that all the anti-police posting, not one of the anti-police posters has not mentioned the poor 5 Dallas officers that were assassinated 2 days ago. Doesn't seem like that is a big deal, only mentioned is the other shootings, let's not forget about the assassination of the 2 NYPD officers last year also and the attempted assassination of a Minnesota police officer today. Guess their lives don't matter as much to be mentioned.

What attempted assassination of a Minnesota police offier?

 

[Gracie09]

In 13 pages of posts, it's sad that all the anti-police posting, not one of the anti-police posters has not mentioned the poor 5 Dallas officers that were assassinated 2 days ago. Doesn't seem like that is a big deal, only mentioned is the other shootings, let's not forget about the assassination of the 2 NYPD officers last year also and the attempted assassination of a Minnesota police officer today. Guess their lives don't matter as much to be mentioned.

Please show an anti-police post from this thread? Just because someone believes the lives of black people in our country deserve the same protections as the white people in our country does not mean people are anti-police. I actually have several members of my family in law enforcement.
The post title is about black lives matter. There is another thread about the shooting in Dallas if you care to read it.

 

[asta]

In 13 pages of posts, it's sad that all the anti-police posting, not one of the anti-police posters has not mentioned the poor 5 Dallas officers that were assassinated 2 days ago. Doesn't seem like that is a big deal, only mentioned is the other shootings, let's not forget about the assassination of the 2 NYPD officers last year also and the attempted assassination of a Minnesota police officer today. Guess their lives don't matter as much to be mentioned.

And don't forget the shooting in Bristol, TN on Thursday where the gunman wanted to shoot whites, especially police officers. He wounded a police officer and killed a woman delivering newspapers. Or the police officer yesterday in Valdosta, GA who was shot after answering a 911 call from the shooter. Or the Missouri police officer who was shot in the back yesterday as he returned to his car after a traffic stop. Where is the outrage at the premeditated attacks on these people who were doing their jobs?

We need to replace the BLM crap with a Facts Matter hashtag.

 

[mnrose]

Just for the record, I care about the very sad and tragic death of the Dallas police officers. Completely unnecessary. Completely wrong. But guess what? i can SIMULTANEOUSLY think the deaths in Baton Rouge and Falcon Heights are also completely unnecessary and completely wrong. I can manage to hold both thoughts in my head at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, and to conclude otherwise is just plain dumb.

 

[manning]

"black lives matter" When are they going to stop shooting each other in Chicago?

 

[Gracie09]

"black lives matter" When are they going to stop shooting each other in Chicago?

The vast majority of white men killed are killed by other white men. The vast majority of police killed are killed by white men. When are they going to stop?

 

[taitai]

"black lives matter" When are they going to stop shooting each other in Chicago?

Well....according to Black Lives Matters...

"The idea that black-on-black crime is not a significant political conversation among black people is patently false. In Chicago, long maligned for its high rates of intraracial murder, members of the community created the Violence Interrupters to disrupt violent altercations before they escalate. However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people."

 

[mi*vida*loca]

"black lives matter" When are they going to stop shooting each other in Chicago?

The issue is when a black man kills a black man he goes to jail. When a cop kills a black man nothing happens.

Do you think the people in that community don't care about the senseless shootings? I stated in this thread that they do protest for peace in inner cities but it doesn't make the news. Do you think mothers of black children like burying their children? That they enjoy keeping their kids in the house all summer Bc it's too violent to let them outside?

The media blasts the murders in Inner cities all over tv but never show the people who want it to stop. They never show the good side. That way people think they're a bunch of savages and animals who kill eachother. Then people think (maybe subconsciously) "oh well. A cop just killed a black man but ya know, they kill eachother all of the time anyway, so who cares." The public plays right into the media desensitizing them.

 

[manning]

Well....according to Black Lives Matters...

"The idea that black-on-black crime is not a significant political conversation among black people is patently false. In Chicago, long maligned for its high rates of intraracial murder, members of the community created the Violence Interrupters to disrupt violent altercations before they escalate. However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people."

The vast majority of murders in Chicago are gang related.

 

[TLSnell1981]

. When a cop kills a black man nothing happens.
.

Nothing happens? No investigation...nothing?

 

[Gracie09]

The vast majority of murders in Chicago are gang related.

It's actually closer to 50% not exactly a vast majority. Definitely a high rate but you also have to look at the underlying reasons men/boys join gangs. The education system is poor, the economic system has many poor blacks on the outside with no real way in. You find a kid 9, 10 years old and have him start making some money doing simple jobs and they got him.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Nothing happens? No investigation...nothing?

They rarely, if ever, serve time or get found guilty of any charges even if it's blatant that they were in the wrong. And investigation? I don't hold police investigations against their own in high regard.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Just for the record, I care about the very sad and tragic death of the Dallas police officers. Completely unnecessary. Completely wrong. But guess what? i can SIMULTANEOUSLY think the deaths in Baton Rouge and Falcon Heights are also completely unnecessary and completely wrong. I can manage to hold both thoughts in my head at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, and to conclude otherwise is just plain dumb.

I agree.

And I'll add that if a cop killed a white man unnecessarily I would be just as outraged.

Right is right and wrong is wrong. I can separate my emotions from logic.

 

[Colleen27]

Just for the record, I care about the very sad and tragic death of the Dallas police officers. Completely unnecessary. Completely wrong. But guess what? i can SIMULTANEOUSLY think the deaths in Baton Rouge and Falcon Heights are also completely unnecessary and completely wrong. I can manage to hold both thoughts in my head at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, and to conclude otherwise is just plain dumb.

Ditto. I also have a lot more faith in the system to work when it comes to prosecuting cop killers (not that it is relevant re: Dallas) than I do when it comes to prosecuting those who kill black men, especially poor black men, and especially (but not only) when the person who pulled the trigger carries a badge.

We have a systemic problem - poor relations between communities and cops that have roots in profound economic and social injustice, a criminal court system that delivers different standards of justice based on race and wealth, and a lack of support on every level for both cops and communities. We've stigmatized and marginalized the poor to the point of almost dehumanizing them, and we have a long collective history of doing the same based on race. The whole thing puts police in the position of adopting a defensive attitude of "us vs them" which causes good men, men who you probably wouldn't think of as racist if you lived next door to them, to make tragic errors in judgement. And that's why there's a need for protests, not just individual volunteerism or activism - because it is a systemic problem that requires systemic solutions that cannot be achieved without collective action and widespread awareness (and might not even be achievable then. but I'm enough of an optimist to think the effort is worth making).

 

[Colleen27]

Well I personally cannot but around here there some officers are trained to tell. And they don't always get it right because it does depend on how they look. But would we rather have two innocent teens pulled over and let go or the gang banger up to no good not being stopped?

I would rather have the due process guaranteed by the Constitution, not a system by which simply looking like an outsider is grounds for a stop and, often, a search or other harassment. Profiling is wrong, full stop. It is wrong when suburban cops pull over a black driver because they assume young black men are all gang bangers or that the only way a black person could come to drive a nice car is via theft. It is wrong when city police pull over a white driver and search the car based on nothing more than the assumption that the only reason a young white person would be in the "hood" is for a drug deal. Both fly in the face of one of America's highest ideals and no amount of "ends justify the means" rationalization can make that right.