"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[Unas]

I listened to a few of the BLM protester interviews last night. Why do they block streets and bridges? Why do the want to close businesses? Why do they threaten to burn buildings? Maybe, they are a very small minority of the demonstrators? There are a couple of causes that I'm quite passionate about. Although, I've never felt the need or desire to disrupt and/or destroy other folks lives, force business closures or destroy buildings. . Actually, it turns me off.....doesn't generate sympathy, compassion or understanding. I honestly don't get it.

There are large numbers of irate and agitated folks involved in this movement. You only need a few to make things go very wrong. You are also creating potentially dangerous situations and opportunities for the extreme wackos, such as the sniper incident...made it very easy for him.

Amazing . . . Black Lives Matter caused/led to the sniper attack. Yet when young, punk, racists shoot up a church it's just a lone nutcase, not the racist organizations and websites the man visited.

 

[Unas]

Is it only white people who are prejudice? I think not, but if you watch the media, they constantly reinforce the public that it is white people who are racists. To be honest, I'm sick of it!

Try studying and understanding the vast differences between prejudice/bigotry and structural (aka institutional) racism, it might mitigate your sickness.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Honestly when I read things things this, I just see excuses to dismiss the ideas behind BLM either because you don't agree or don't want to acknowledge problems to sweep them under the rug.
Any type of issues people have are going to have the same problems you mention. We all not there are some issues that we can't really talk, about here which cause people to speak out, protest, hold marches, often passionately defend their stance, many times those issues attract extremists or are used by wackos to act out violently.
I'm sure you aren't trying to argue that people should just keep, their mouths shut and not speak out about things they feel are unjust or need to change.
Unfortunately it does sound like you are saying some people should do just that.

I believe, Black Lives Matter is divisive... All Lives Matter. What's that saying, "divided we fall"? Until...if, we come together, embrace our differences and really listen...nothing will change for the better. We all need to have a bit of empathy....walk in each other's shoes. Folks shut down, when they are always told they are the bad apples, who need to change. I promise, that doesn't solve or help the problem. It creates animosity and builds more walls.

I don't think, blocking roads, closing businesses or burning building is productive. Personally, I donate my time and/or money to hopefully make a difference. IMO a positive message is more likely to affect a change. I also try to lead by example. It might not be sensational or make the 6 o''clock news, but it's all about changing hearts and minds. The shouting, threats, violence, disruptive behavior doesn't make anyone receptive to the message.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I believe, Black Lives Matter is divisive... All Lives Matter. What's that saying, "divided we fall"? Until...if, we come together, embrace our differences and really listen...nothing will change for the better. We all need to have a bit of empathy....walk in each other's shoes. Folks shut down, when they are always told they are the bad apples, who need to change. I promise, that doesn't solve or help the problem. It creates animosity and builds more walls.

I don't think, blocking roads, closing businesses or burning building is productive. Personally, I donate my time and/or money to hopefully make a difference. IMO a positive message is more likely to affect a change. I also try to lead by example. It might not be sensational or make the 6 o''clock news, but it's all about changing hearts and minds. The shouting, threats, violence, disruptive behavior doesn't make anyone receptive to the message.

You're only looking at the negative things you don't like that really are a small fraction and don't represent the whole. Again it just seems like a away to dismiss the larger issues.
I don't like foolishness and blocking roads or calls to violence. I realize those types of things happen with any number of groups trying to adress various issues. You're always going to have some idiots in a group. You can't focus on them and use it as an excuse to dismiss the whole issue. Its one thing to agree or disagree ( in whole or in parts) with something based on actual, issues and goals, it's another to just completely dismiss something and say it has no merit and use the behavior of a few idiots as an excuse.
Doing that accomplishes nothing. There come a point where normal, rational people need to stop focusing on the extremes because that makes avoiding uncomfortable our difficult to solve problems easier.

 

[CPanther95]

Try studying and understanding the vast differences between prejudice/bigotry and structural (aka institutional) racism

You're correct, there's a big difference. We have a ways to go to eliminate the institutional racism embedded in our society. We have made much greater strides when it comes to the general rejection and intolerance of bigotry.

But one of the biggest obstacles to making real progress is the "race shaming" that seems to be en vogue with the ridiculous PC standard that we should all be color-blind to the extent that we don't even acknowledge ethnic differences at all. We are different, and there are real differences in how we see the world and how we think and act in different situations. These same folks trying to impose those standards on all of us are likely nothing like that themselves when surrounded by only their friends and family - because it is completely unrealistic. You can't force people to be ignorant and bury their heads in the sand then expect to come up with any intelligent solutions. Especially when those solutions will require people to acknowledge the exact same thing you are telling them to pretend they don't notice.

I really wish everybody was forced to spend at least a season in a football locker room. They'd all see how well we could all get along if we do the exact opposite of what the PC crowd suggests. You not only see and acknowledge the differences, you make fun of, laugh about, and most importantly - discuss the differences. That's when you begin to understand how we are different, and it's also when you start to fully appreciate just how similar we all are when it comes to everything that really matters.

 

[kandb]

Just an example of what some posters are trying to communicate. I had a lawyer who worked for me in suburban NJ, in a overwhelmingly white area (easily 95% white). It was a nice, upscale suburban area. Very little crime. He always left at least 15 minutes early for work to build in time to be pulled over by the cops. He was pulled over, literally, dozens of times while he worked for me for no reason whatsoever. His crime, apparently was driving an expensive foreign car in a white town. Not always the same town cops BTW....to get to work, he drove through maybe a dozen small towns. It was eye opening to me. I was never pulled over, ever. Not once. White women in expensive foreign autos were not suspected of crimes. He was. It was the first time I understood white privilege. I never even thought about the possibility of being pulled over randomly. Never happened. Happened to him all.the.time.

Sorry, I just don't believe this. This gentleman was pulled over "dozens of times" for no apparent reason. If it's true, he should of video tapped it and sued the police departments. Very hard to believe this and if the gentleman was smart he would of gotten an attorney.

 

[luvsJack]

You're only looking at the negative things you don't like that really are a small fraction and don't represent the whole. Again it just seems like a away to dismiss the larger issues.
I don't like foolishness and blocking roads or calls to violence. I realize those types of things happen with any number of groups trying to adress various issues. You're always going to have some idiots in a group. You can't focus on them and use it as an excuse to dismiss the whole issue. Its one thing to agree or disagree ( in whole or in parts) with something based on actual, issues and goals, it's another to just completely dismiss something and say it has no merit and use the behavior of a few idiots as an excuse.
Doing that accomplishes nothing. There come a point where normal, rational people need to stop focusing on the extremes because that makes avoiding uncomfortable our difficult to solve problems easier.

Hard not to focus on the extremes. Calls for violence, burning neigjborhoods, shutting down businesses, blocking roads and bridges are all very big deals. Until they seperate from the extremes, no one is going to listen. Because of these extremes they are not going to get results so they have to go another way.

One crazy man shoots up a church--horrible tragedy. Flags and monuments are called to be removed from an entire region because maybe the thought of the times these things represent made him think the way he did. But we can't reason out that a crazy man shooting white cops at a blm rally could have been the result of infuence from said rally? And that maybe the movement isn't working?

 

[ASchwa]

You're only looking at the negative things you don't like that really are a small fraction and don't represent the whole. Again it just seems like a away to dismiss the larger issues.
I don't like foolishness and blocking roads or calls to violence. I realize those types of things happen with any number of groups trying to adress various issues. You're always going to have some idiots in a group. You can't focus on them and use it as an excuse to dismiss the whole issue. Its one thing to agree or disagree ( in whole or in parts) with something based on actual, issues and goals, it's another to just completely dismiss something and say it has no merit and use the behavior of a few idiots as an excuse.
Doing that accomplishes nothing. There come a point where normal, rational people need to stop focusing on the extremes because that makes avoiding uncomfortable our difficult to solve problems easier.

Only looking at the negative? BLM keeps spouting lies. Trayvon Martin was not killed by Police yet BLM doesn't make that distinction. Michael Brown stole and shoved the person who tried to stop him. Then he attacked the Officer who was trying to arrest him. BLM still does the slogan "hands up, don't shoot", that is not trying to come to an understanding about racism. It is inciting anger on both sides. Leaders like Cornel West and Alice Walker don't care about truths or facts. This is what I have seen in other causes that they take on. Al Sharpton is the same way. He is a divisive person who instead of bringing communities together he tears down and then start chanting "no justice, no peace". The racism that they want addressed by police, they will not acknowledge the racism that they harbor. In our country, Blacks were killed by lies in the not too distant past, and that is what BLM has done to those Dallas Police Officers.

 

[mnrose]

Sorry, I just don't believe this. This gentleman was pulled over "dozens of times" for no apparent reason. If it's true, he should of video tapped it and sued the police departments. Very hard to believe this and if the gentleman was smart he would of gotten an attorney.

Sorry you don't believe it. It happened. It's real. It also mirrors the experience of one of my former bosses in the panhandle of Florida. It's not isolated. And, see, if you start to get "wise ****" on a cop and filming them etc, as a black man, you could end up dead. He knew that too. And, how do you "prove" this? It wasn't the same police department over and over. Different departments, different towns. The pattern was clear to HIM, but the pattern would be completely irrelevant in a lawsuit. ONLY the one stop would matter....proving that any ONE stop was racial is very hard, right? You do understand that. But, maybe not. Willful ignorance of the existence of this kind of systematic racism is part of the problem. Note: I am not saying any single PERSON is racist or bigoted. The vast majority of us are not (although it is crystal clear to me that there ARE racists out there). But the whole system is. It's hard to erase 100's of years of ingrained white privilege in a short while. Even harder, if not impossible, if we deny that it exists.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Hard not to focus on the extremes. Calls for violence, burning neigjborhoods, shutting down businesses, blocking roads and bridges are all very big deals. Until they seperate from the extremes, no one is going to listen. Because of these extremes they are not going to get results so they have to go another way.

One crazy man shoots up a church--horrible tragedy. Flags and monuments are called to be removed from an entire region because maybe the thought of the times these things represent made him think the way he did. But we can't reason out that a crazy man shooting white cops at a blm rally could have been the result of infuence from said rally? And that maybe the movement isn't working?

All tit for tat, circular reasoning, unwillingness to see a different viewpoint, blame those you disagree with..whatever. It all only contributes to the problems

 

[ChrisFL]

The problem I have with the movement is that as far as I can tell it isn't providing specific recommendations on what needs to be changed.

I agree that there is racism and senseless killings of some people without proper procedures, but I don't believe they're coordinated, they're individual acts that need to be prosecuted.

Just calling out a group asking not to be shot as a "terrorist group" is making the problem worse. There are outer fringes on BOTH sides who make things worse for the rest of us..

 

[TLSnell1981]

Doing that accomplishes nothing. There come a point where normal, rational people need to stop focusing on the extremes because that makes avoiding uncomfortable our difficult to solve problems easier.

So, stop extreme behavior and messages.

 

[tinatark]

Amazing . . . Black Lives Matter caused/led to the sniper attack. Yet when young, punk, racists shoot up a church it's just a lone nutcase, not the racist organizations and websites the man visited.

This attack was AT a BLM protest. BLM events routinely incite violence, looting, assault and now MURDER - those things happen at the BLM events.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Amazing . . . Black Lives Matter caused/led to the sniper attack. Yet when young, punk, racists shoot up a church it's just a lone nutcase, not the racist organizations and websites the man visited.

BLM is responsible for the sniper attack? I said that...or about a young punk shooting up churches?

 

[lsyorke]

Sorry, I just don't believe this. This gentleman was pulled over "dozens of times" for no apparent reason. If it's true, he should of video tapped it and sued the police departments. Very hard to believe this and if the gentleman was smart he would of gotten an attorney.

I have employees in NJ who face the same thing on at least a monthly basis. I have to admit I had no clue that this went on, until I had some hispanic and black employees. It was eye opening, to say the least. One drives a used BMW, he gets pulled over the most. Never arrested, never a ticket issued. I asked him why he didn't report the harassment he said "it would just escalate and I can't afford an attorney to fight the police department".
I have the utmost respect for the police, but I've also been around long enough to recognize that there are some bad ones in the bunch.

 

[JimMIA]

I personally think BLM is a trivial "movement" whose moment has come and gone. To the degree that they have gotten us all thinking sensibly about racism, that's helpful even though it's not the goal of BLM...which I'll discuss later. But that benefit was early on.

If it hasn't already, BLM will soon slide into one of those franchised fund-raising opportunities that make noise but accomplish nothing. Bad things happen, make a bunch of noise, money flows in -- it's all good.

I say they are trivial because they have accomplished nothing they set out to do.

BLM was not created to fix racism. BLM was created to address police misconduct. As a retired cop, I support that goal and so do most cops. It's a very worthy goal.

But BLM's methodology has been counterproductive. In addition to the unfortunate name choice, they've only been the noisemakers taking the easy "principled stands," developing catchy names, copying easy chants from other causes and era, and feeling good about themselves. Nobody listens to them, nor should they.

But what about the hard work of actually effecting change? What about identifying actual problems (both individual and systemic) in police agencies? What about doing effective pressuring to encourage agencies and communities to really fix something...for once?

Wanna change your local police agency? I'll give you a couple of places to start:

• Look at the demographic makeup of the agency. Does the group picture of the agency look like a group picture of your community? If not, why not? This is a very difficult thing to change; it takes years and years of effort and it's very difficult for everyone involved. But you won't get a responsive police agency until you have a representative police agency -- if for no other reason than because people just won't have confidence that they'll be treated fairly if nobody on the force looks like them.
• Look at the published policies of the agency. Are they appropriate? Do they exist?! Is the agency accredited? If not, why not?
• Look at the actual practices of the agency. Do they match their stated mission, goals, objectives, and policies?
• Look at the complaint procedures of the agency. Are complaints handled straight-up... or cover-up? Are complaint investigations thorough, detailed, and well-documented?
• Look at the disciplinary procedures of the agency. When someone violates policy, are they disciplined? Are they disciplined appropriately -- or is discipline too harsh, too lenient, or worst of all, all over the place?
• Is there a legitimate independent review mechanism for complaints and discipline. I mean real, legitimate, professional, honest review -- not BLM-style noise-makers. Creating something like that is even more difficult than changing the demographics of a government agency (because those boards always attract exactly the wrong people), but if you need one, it can be done. But if the complaint/discipline practices of the agency work, that's much better than any outside group, no matter how well-meaning.
  
• Look at the training of the management, supervisors, and officers. Usually if training is examined, it's only the minimum training of the officers that is reviewed. Good, well-trained officers will never be any better than their bosses, so how the bosses are trained is even more important than the rank and file.
• Go beyond the local agency if they are not responsive. [mi*vida*loca -- this one is for you, Mami! ] If the locals are idiots, go over their heads. Everybody has a boss. Every agency has some other agency higher in the food chain. If the agency or local government resists needed change, go up the food chain. Every state has an agency which licenses police agencies and sets their standards. Every state has a legislative body and a governor. Use them -- they work for US.

All that is hard work -- but if you are inclined that way, you won't be alone.

There are many, many good people in every community already working toward these ends. They're the quiet ones who would rather get things done and make their communities better than scream and pound their chests in empty gestures. You have to look for them, because they won't often be on the local news, but you'll recognize them as soon as you see them.

Or...you can just go outside and scream something silly.

 

[ReneeA]

Sorry, I just don't believe this. This gentleman was pulled over "dozens of times" for no apparent reason. If it's true, he should of video tapped it and sued the police departments. Very hard to believe this and if the gentleman was smart he would of gotten an attorney.

I completely believe it. I work with a black cardiothoracic surgeon who happens to drive a very high end Mercedes. He gets pulled over at least weekly in his "white" city. It would be eye opening to cops just how many lives this man has saved.

 

[taitai]

Sorry, I just don't believe this. This gentleman was pulled over "dozens of times" for no apparent reason. If it's true, he should of video tapped it and sued the police departments. Very hard to believe this and if the gentleman was smart he would of gotten an attorney.

So then this thread has been helpful to you as you learned something new. Driving While Black is, unfortunately, a real thing. Google it. Google Chris Rock and Driving While Black. Why do you think Philando Castile was pulled over so many times? Why do you think that in addition to the birds and bees talk, every parent of a black driver, especially a young man, has the "What to do when you are pulled over for no reason" talk with their son or daughter? It is a very real problem.

 

[DLandgirlie]

We all know a pot full of water left on a stove will boil; if covered, it will boil over.
Unfortunately, we know from History how and why the stove was turned on.
But we can start by taking the lid off to keep it from boiling over.
We can hopefully move to turning down the flames.
Will it ever be turned off? I don't know.
Asking for this movement to disappear/trying to silence or discredit this change in our society is "keeping the lid on a pot of boiling water".

 

[mummabear]

unwarranted shootings.

Except most of the shootings BLM are protesting were not unwarranted. If you have just committed a robbery, and then when confronted by a cop try to wrestle for his gun, it has nothing to do with your skin colour when you get shot.

Look at the demographic makeup of the agency. Does the group picture of the agency look like a group picture of your community? If not, why not? This is a very difficult thing to change; it takes years and years of effort and it's very difficult for everyone involved. But you won't get a responsive police agency until you have a representative police agency -- if for no other reason than because people just won't have confidence that they'll be treated fairly if nobody on the force looks like them.

Here in NZ Maori Wardens were created to solve this problem. In some communities or events they will patrol instead of the police, other times they are called in by the police to help deal with an incident. However my understand is legally they have no authority.