Big News

[skier_pete]

I think if they did that they would almost certainly face a class action legal challenge. Doesn't mean they might not try and ultimately win, but far less controversial to change the value of something that no one has been able to buy yet before they can.

FWIW, if they ever did announce that they are going to limit resale contract of the existing 14 resorts to home resort use only I will immediately sell my points for whatever I can get before the rule change takes effect.

No, I specifically meant all FUTURE resale buyers. Like if you now (after Jan 19th) buy at ANY resort resale, you only get your home resort. It would bottom resale prices out everywhere. I really doubt they ever take away perks from PAST resale purchasers - if they haven't done it with the 4 changes to date - they must've already looked into it and decided they can't.

All this angst is making me glad I only bought a small contract, and that I will break even after one more trip. Everything else will be gravy. But at this point, I don't think I'll add on any more.

Disney has cured my addonitis!

Yup, mine too. I keep thinking at a certain point they'll hurt themselves enough to trash the market. Perhaps (a) 10% MF increases, (b) raising the lock-off premiums, and (c) reducing resale benefits significantly will finally start to scare people away. Though I doubt it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I agree with this. I'm wondering if there will be any kind of premium for a grandfathered contract that would have access to Riviera (or any other future resort) at the 7 month window. I'm not thinking right away, but over time it seems like access to the new resorts might get harder and harder as more "old" resort contracts are resold and lose access.

The grandfathered status will only transfer if you give away the contract. If you sell it then it's restricted. So, no premium value.

 

[Networth]

The grandfathered status will only transfer if you give away the contract. If you sell it then it's restricted. So, no premium value.

Well that answers that question.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

The grandfathered status will only transfer if you give away the contract. If you sell it then it's restricted. So, no premium value.

I was glad to see they specifically addressed this in the announcement. My husband isn't on our contract but I'm waiting to add him until my dd16 turns 18 to add them both.

 

[TexasChick123]

No, I specifically meant all FUTURE resale buyers. Like if you now (after Jan 19th) buy at ANY resort resale, you only get your home resort. It would bottom resale prices out everywhere. I really doubt they ever take away perks from PAST resale purchasers - if they haven't done it with the 4 changes to date - they must've already looked into it and decided they can't.

They absolutely already looked into this and found out they can’t do it. Disney doesn’t do anything just to be “nice” to the current owners. They can’t change it because of the law or else they would change it in a heartbeat.

 

[jtwibih]

So are you guys thinking that they will eventually restrict new resale buyers to only their home resort?

 

[TexasChick123]

So are you guys thinking that they will eventually restrict new resale buyers to only their home resort?

Yes. I don’t know if they can do this to the original 14 because of how they were written up. I’m not a contract attorney. :/ The new ones will be written differently though to insure they can do this.

 

[jtwibih]

Yeah I guess that’s what I meant. Will they be able to restrict the originals if you buy an original?

 

[oldwash]

So if I have an unrestricted 200 pt BW contract and I buy a 100pt BW resale a month from now, will I be able to use all 300 pts at any resort?

 

[skier_pete]

So are you guys thinking that they will eventually restrict new resale buyers to only their home resort?

It's possible, but I think less than likely or they would've done it right now...and here's the reason.

I just posted in another thread that DVCs primary focus is selling the resort that is the current new resort. Yes, they do some ROFR and sell some contracts at old resorts - but really they are not interested in doing that. So the reason they did this is about future sales at NEW resorts. How can we market to people to convince them to pay $200 for a Riviera contract? Well, make sure that the only way they can use that contract at other resorts is if they buy it from US.

They just don't care as much about that at the older resorts. There's a point at which people are going to realize that paying $200 a point for a Beach Club contract with 20 years left on it (or 15 or 10) is idiotic. They won't be able to sell those contracts no matter what they do direct - and the only market left will be resale anyways, and they simply don't really care that much.

All the times they took away benefits wasn't about hurting the resale market - it was about positioning the direct buyer with benefits.

Now, I'll never say they'd never do it, but again if they saw benefit to it, why not do it right now? This would've dropped the bottom out of the resale market at a LOT of resorts. How much do you pay for points at SSR if that's the only place you can ever stay? $40 a point? $50? Certainly not the $110 a point they are getting right now. With the exception of only a few locations (BCV, VGC, VGF) they'd all drop - you'd have to really, really like the Poly to pay $150 a point resale, cause you can't go anywhere else. And talk about completely CRUSHING Aulani sales. They've been trying to sell that place for 10 years - now you drop the resale value there in maybe HALF?? Who buys direct then...they'll never get the place sold out. And what about HHI and VB?? Who'd ever buy there if you can't use them at WDW?

 

[skier_pete]

So if I have an unrestricted 200 pt BW contract and I buy a 100pt BW resale a month from now, will I be able to use all 300 pts at any resort?

That's a GREAT question.

The way I read it, you would be able to use all 300 points at all the current 14 resorts, but only the original 200 pt BW contract at Riviera and any future constructed resorts.

The key phrase from DVCs statement:

Resale contracts purchased for the existing 14 Disney Vacation Club Resorts will only be able to exchange Points into those 14 Resorts.

 

[LionKingCPA]

Do you mean a premium on rental contracts, not purchases?

Sorry. Was talking about rental premium but didn’t explain that in the post.

 

[CarolynFH]

Yeah I guess that’s what I meant. Will they be able to restrict the originals if you buy an original?

I don’t believe they can because of what’s written in the contracts & POS. If Riviera will be the first of the DVC 2 resorts, those documents can be written differently in order to allow that kind of restriction.

However, if resale owners at Riviera can’t trade out, then direct owners at Reflections (and later DVC 2 resorts) won’t be able to trade in to Riviera. So I can see Riviera (and other DVC 2) resale owners not being able to exchange into the original 14 DVC 1 resorts. But I’ll be totally mystified and amazed if they can’t exchange into DVC 2 resorts either.

 

[jtwibih]

It's possible, but I think less than likely or they would've done it right now...and here's the reason.

I just posted in another thread that DVCs primary focus is selling the resort that is the current new resort. Yes, they do some ROFR and sell some contracts at old resorts - but really they are not interested in doing that. So the reason they did this is about future sales at NEW resorts. How can we market to people to convince them to pay $200 for a Riviera contract? Well, make sure that the only way they can use that contract at other resorts is if they buy it from US.

They just don't care as much about that at the older resorts. There's a point at which people are going to realize that paying $200 a point for a Beach Club contract with 20 years left on it (or 15 or 10) is idiotic. They won't be able to sell those contracts no matter what they do direct - and the only market left will be resale anyways, and they simply don't really care that much.

All the times they took away benefits wasn't about hurting the resale market - it was about positioning the direct buyer with benefits.

Now, I'll never say they'd never do it, but again if they saw benefit to it, why not do it right now? This would've dropped the bottom out of the resale market at a LOT of resorts. How much do you pay for points at SSR if that's the only place you can ever stay? $40 a point? $50? Certainly not the $110 a point they are getting right now. With the exception of only a few locations (BCV, VGC, VGF) they'd all drop - you'd have to really, really like the Poly to pay $150 a point resale, cause you can't go anywhere else. And talk about completely CRUSHING Aulani sales. They've been trying to sell that place for 10 years - now you drop the resale value there in maybe HALF?? Who buys direct then...they'll never get the place sold out. And what about HHI and VB?? Who'd ever buy there if you can't use them at WDW?

That makes sense. We have been looking at resale for a while at AKV and this has been a concern. Not that we are buying to sell again but you never know what could happen.

 

[skier_pete]

I don’t believe they can because of what’s written in the contracts & POS. If Riviera will be the first of the DVC 2 resorts, those documents can be written differently in order to allow that kind of restriction.

However, if resale owners at Riviera can’t trade out, then direct owners at Reflections (and later DVC 2 resorts) won’t be able to trade in to Riviera. So I can see Riviera (and other DVC 2) resale owners not being able to exchange into the original 14 DVC 1 resorts. But I’ll be totally mystified and amazed if they can’t exchange into DVC 2 resorts either.

It's a good comment - they really didn't fully explain that one. All they are saying right now is resale buyers at Riviera will only be able to stay at Riviera. Direct buyers can stay at Riviera AND the other 14 as well - so it really isn't truly a separate DVC 2. I can't imagine that they would let them exchange into Reflections.

I feel like Disney might be opening a messy can of worms with this decision.

 

[CarolynFH]

It's a good comment - they really didn't fully explain that one. All they are saying right now is resale buyers at Riviera will only be able to stay at Riviera. Direct buyers can stay at Riviera AND the other 14 as well - so it really isn't truly a separate DVC 2. I can't imagine that they would let them exchange into Reflections.

I feel like Disney might be opening a messy can of worms with this decision.

I’ve read the post on the member website more than once and I still don’t see where it says that resale Riviera owners will only be able to stay at Riviera. I believe that statement was reportedly made during a chat with a DVC guide or CM. So I’m very eager to find out the official word on what DVC will look like going forward.

Exchanges between DVC 1 and 2 direct/grandfathered owners can easily be facilitated through BVTC.

But as I’ve said elsewhere, I really hope that my BWV points will get us 2-3 nights in one of those rumored 2-person studios !

 

[Luvears]

One of the selling points of DVC has been that if the owner has to sell, the contracts still have significant value. This move will kill any future resale value.

agreed. (sadly)

 

[MinnieB]

All this angst is making me glad I only bought a small contract, and that I will break even after one more trip. Everything else will be gravy. But at this point, I don't think I'll add on any more.

Disney has cured my addonitis!

Feeling exactly the same way. I have been anxiously awaiting details on Riviera and debating how many points we would add on there. Now I think I’ll be happy just keeping our small direct Poly contract. I don’t like the idea of making any further commitments to a program where the rules are subject to change this much.

 

[Upatnoon]

In the timeshare industry, its all about developer sales. They want to move the points as fast as possible and make the resale market look as "suspicious" or "like a bad deal" to people who go on the timeshare tour.

If you are a salesperson, how do you compete when the potential buyer says "I can get the same thing resale for much less?" Salespeople want to cut off that argument with these new policies.

I can see one possible benefit to the "classic" DVC users. As Disney builds more and more DVC resorts, there are going to be winners and losers. This segregation would help free up reservation availability for the classic users a bit.

In the end, I can't see this doing anything but hurting the Riveria resale value, but it may not matter to DVC-struck people on the tours.

 

[Luvears]

I agree with this. I'm wondering if there will be any kind of premium for a grandfathered contract that would have access to Riviera (or any other future resort) at the 7 month window. I'm not thinking right away, but over time it seems like access to the new resorts might get harder and harder as more "old" resort contracts are resold and lose access.

Interesting ? but if one would sell a grandfathered resale... wouldn’t that then be deemed a post 1/19/19 resale subject to new rules (orig 14 only)?