Best Strategy for a trip in 2022? Lower Your Expectations

[mickeyluv'r]

Very well said.

Something else I think is being overlooked amidst the frustration over G+ is that FP+ optimization expertise on DIS did not spring up overnight, it grew over a period of time. It wasn't something that could be mastered with an hour of study.

FP+ itself evolved. Initially, users could only get 3 passes. Period.

That was also before current MDE. Initially the first option was booking them online from home or using the in-park kiosk. If you wanted to change the time, you had to stand in the VERY long kiosk lines. There was no option of using your phone to modify a FP.

It wasn't a matter of being savvy.

A little further on, I also attempted to refresh and it was useless. In that time, it didn't = new options. It only became useful after many IT updates to MDE. Again, it wasn't a matter of 'knowing,' I came up with the idea all on my own, and saw that it didn't do anything.

It only became an option years after FP+ was introduced.


A plus of paper FP- was that most CM's were flexible about returning later than your time window. if you got held up on a slow bus or something it was understood that these things happen at WDW. A short time before WDW moved to FP+ they got very strict about enforcing time windows. And of course, FP+ was strict about time windows. Early FP+ was terrible in that way.

The kiosk lines were often a solid 30+min wait! Totally useless.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

I think this a testament to how out of touch he and other execs are with the typical guest experience and expectations.

THIS!!! They were blown away by the popularity?? of G+/LL seriously? wait in 2 hour+ lines or spend $11 hoping you might be able to do more than wait in lines all day. On busy days there are really no alternatives. I guess if you are okay with selling something once and then losing long time customers because of their experience with it..thats not the definition of popular.

 

[RamblingMad]

I think it’s difficult to say that G+ was or wasn’t meant to address complaints about FP+ without good data on how many people were complaining about it. You can find groups of people complaining about literally anything online. Certainly not all of those complaints get addressed. You can’t please all of the people all of the time, as the saying goes. I think you’d need customer feedback data to see if this was actually a major issue or not.

My biggest two complains prior to G+ was: (1) if you stayed off site, you had zero chance to get decent FP+, and (2) I had no idea what I would want to ride on what day. The planning was awful.

What G+ does do is put more money into Disney's pocketbook while providing a lot of data to Disney.

How many people here aren't going to Disney because of G+?

 

[jknc]

My biggest two complains prior to G+ was: (1) if you stayed off site, you had zero chance to get decent FP+, and (2) I had no idea what I would want to ride on what day. The planning was awful.

What G+ does do is put more money into Disney's pocketbook while providing a lot of data to Disney.

How many people here aren't going to Disney because of G+?

Magic bands provided insane data to Disney. They’re the reason Disney hates APs.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

. We also know that Disney spent a lot of time cracking down on various loopholes to FP+.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
WDW's systems have always had glitches and flaws. And as I said, FP+ evolved over time.

FP+ was initially limited and simple compared to what it later was able to offer.


There were epic debates about FP+ and FP-. Some folks don't like change, that is true.

One thing that was possible with paper FP was that we could get two paper passes for the same ride if we wanted. neither FP+ nor Genie+ allows that.

Most of the time, if looked at 60 day mark, I was able to get all the rides I wanted, just maybe not the exact time I wanted. For much of the life of FP+, I was able to make changes.

A significant change came when FoP opened. It was hard- for much of the life of FP+ to get FoP at the 30-day mark.

BUT, come 2019, refresh worked really well. In 2019, FP+ was pretty flexible. I'm sure I posted that i didn't get everything perfectly in the time frame i wanted, but in the parks- day -f- I was often able to get some fantastic same-day options.

So it greatly depends if someone is posting about early FP+, late FP+ and especially if they are thinking about FoP and in the VERY late days of FP+ Slinky.

It is funny too because as I said, most CM's allowed late aper FP- usage for most of the life of paper FP-, but SOME people here adamantly insisted that was somehow 'cheating.'

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Except you have a hell of a lot of "ifs" here. Maybe you can get all three rides IF you're staying on site and if you get lucky that the times work. And then - no you don't get to go to the park whenever you want . . . because as many people are reporting, the time you're assigned to ride can easily vary by hours by the time you click the last button so you're stuck with whatever they give you unless you want to spend time with guest services.

As for the 3 FP cap - there was never a 3 FP cap. It was 3 in advance. Exceptionally easy to get 5-10 extra in a day and more if you were aggressive. The tiering - while I didn't love it - at least made perfect sense. It was a way to ensure more people got to choose at least one of the most popular rides rather than a much smaller number getting all of them to the exclusion of others. And - both of those issues are still present in more extreme forms.

And no - you are 100% wrong about having to get up early before. If you wanted to arrive at the parks at 3pm - you made your reservations after 3pm. And again - absolutely nothing has changed with that under this system.

So all of the negatives you pointed out under the old system are still present in more extreme situations and the benefits you quote are being widely reported as not being easy to achieve for a tremendous number of people. What you say was impossible under FP+ was basically how every trip was for me under FP+ and even more. Easily rode RnR, ToT, TSM, SD multiple times per day without much difficulty.

Yes agree a lot of ifs I think I even highlighted them in my post.

And I meant the cap before you arrived and was referring really to Tier 1 rides....but anyway I agree with you that you could ride lots of stuff all day under FP+...as was the case with FP as well....and is still the case with Genie+ if you stay on site and if you pay (there's those ifs again lol). We make whatever system is in place work for us.

And I am not 100% wrong...at all...you missed the point. Sure you booked a FP+ under the old system and turned up whenever you wanted and rode your headliner...and you rode the other headliners in the park with long lines or skipped them...due to the tiering system. OR, you got up early.

but now, I can go late and ride multiple headliners with no wait. (but I do have to spend a few minutes on my phone at 7am, agreed, and I have to pay).

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

How many people here aren't going to Disney because of G+?

I very well may not go back this year. I had 4 trips planned between now and Christmas on my AP with an additional trip in December on either a renewed AP or a military ticket.

It is very possible I will not return this year.....or maybe go once.....based on my direct experience in the past 90 days.

I will most likely not renew my AP as well.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

This is a good account of all the systems.

That old FP system worked against everyone with mobility or ambulatory conditions, and those with strollers. If you take a look of the make up of the people in the parks at Disney World, you can see why that system had to go.

We successfully used FP- and strollers many, many times over.

Back then there just wasn't many FP attractions compared to now. All you needed was one person to gather FP for the group, and it was only a few rides in each park. And even then, a FP for like Living with the Land- and half the FP attractions didn't really do anything. Just the standby and FP queues were often about the same, especially if you had any park touring sense at all.

Back in that time, GAS was a little different, too.

In that time though, one disadvantaged group was the people who didn't arrive until 10:30 or 11am, or only used the middle hours of the day.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

So I was answering about whether or not being able to get rides at 30 or 60 days out was a factor in making Genie+ and I said we know Disney was AWARE that this was a problem. One of the things I used to point that out is that Disney was closing loopholes that were in FP+.

Example - making reservations and then making your FP+, then moving the reservation date. Disney closed that loophole.
Example - people making reservations at wilderness campgrounds to extend their 60 day mark. Disney closed this loophole.
Example... people purchasing multiple tickets to get into the parks to 'cheat' the system and get more FP+'s. Disney closed this loophole.

I am sure I can go back and find others. These are not 'evolutions' of the early FP+ to later FP+. These are examples of people cheating the system to get a leg up on those FP+ reservations. Usually with an eye toward extending their 60 day mark out (except in the third example which was to increase your number).

WDW's systems have always had glitches and flaws. And as I said, FP+ evolved over time.

A significant change came when FoP opened. It was hard- for much of the life of FP+ to get FoP at the 30-day mark.

BUT, come 2019, refresh worked really well. In 2019, FP+ was pretty flexible. I'm sure I posted that i didn't get everything perfectly in the time frame i wanted, but in the parks- day -f- I was often able to get some fantastic same-day options.

So it greatly depends if someone is posting about early FP+, late FP+ and especially if they are thinking about FoP and in the VERY late days of FP+ Slinky.

Don't disagree. As I mentioned in my earlier post - look at FP+ 2018/2019 is where the problems with the 60 mark were. Prior to 2017 you were generally able to get the rides you wanted. It's really toward the later end when new super popular rides appeared that caused the issues.

Genie and Genie+ will also evolve over time. They are just starting out. It's a very complex system.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

That's what GENIE was supposed to do (and still fails at). GENIE+ is just the line skipping part of the application.

I only glanced at the base version of Genie but thought it did a decent job of telling you "hey...you are in tomorrowland...a few steps away is auntie gravity's if you want ice cream and over yonder is the buzz ride" etc.

I could be wrong.

 

[Westerner]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
WDW's systems have always had glitches and flaws. And as I said, FP+ evolved over time.

FP+ was initially limited and simple compared to what it later was able to offer.


There were epic debates about FP+ and FP-. Some folks don't like change, that is true.

One thing that was possible with paper FP was that we could get two paper passes for the same ride if we wanted. neither FP+ nor Genie+ allows that.

Most of the time, if looked at 60 day mark, I was able to get all the rides I wanted, just maybe not the exact time I wanted. For much of the life of FP+, I was able to make changes.

A significant change came when FoP opened. It was hard- for much of the life of FP+ to get FoP at the 30-day mark.

BUT, come 2019, refresh worked really well. In 2019, FP+ was pretty flexible. I'm sure I posted that i didn't get everything perfectly in the time frame i wanted, but in the parks- day -f- I was often able to get some fantastic same-day options.

So it greatly depends if someone is posting about early FP+, late FP+ and especially if they are thinking about FoP and in the VERY late days of FP+ Slinky.

It is funny too because as I said, most CM's allowed late aper FP- usage for most of the life of paper FP-, but SOME people here adamantly insisted that was somehow 'cheating.'

Thanks for the FP+ history, I was unaware. G+ will probably evolve as well, and part of the savvy will be keeping up with the changes and how to get the most out of it.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Thanks for the FP+ history, I was unaware. G+ will probably evolve as well, and part of the savvy will be keeping up with the changes and how to get the most out of it.

oh yeah....the blowback around here when FP+ was launched was huge. At least equal to this blowback.

 

[pixiedust2u]

How many people here aren't going to Disney because of G+?

We canceled our Spring trip. I filled out two surveys sent to me prior to canceling with feedback about why I was canceling and I wrote guest services. Also had a 6 night November trip booked that I cut in half and moved to December…. Though I’m monitoring the situation and may very well switch over to Universal for a few nights instead. I’m just about to actually book universal for same dates and as my cancellation window approaches decide what makes more sense.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

oh yeah....the blowback around here when FP+ was launched was huge. At least equal to this blowback.

For a trip down memory lane, I went back and looked... Yup. I would say the immediate sky is falling threads for FP+ are at least as bad as G+.

Which just kinda proves the point that everything is not as bad as people make it out to be. The system will be tweaked. This is probably not a hair worse than Disney expected and they know it will blow over.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Regarding previous complaints with FP+ about not being able to get all the FPs they wanted... that problem has always existed, no matter which system was in effect.

When legacy FP was around, the FP kiosks had distributed all of the FP tickets for the day pretty early for popular rides. Those who arrived a little later in the day complained that the "good" FPs were all sold out already.

Under FP+, the FPs for popular rides sold out at 60+x days. People who stayed offsite or had shorter onsite stays complained that the "good" FPs were all sold out already.

Under G+, the LLs for some popular rides sell out within seconds at 7 am. People who don't get one (slow phone/WiFi, glitch, etc.) complain that the "good" LLs are sold out (on top of now paying for the chance to compete for one of the limited number of LLs).

The underlying problem has always been that there are too many people vying for a limited number of FP/FP+/LL slots. No app is ever going to solve this. It can only shuffle around which people get blocked out because there's not enough supply to meet the demand.

 

[Davey Jones II]

FP+ itself evolved. Initially, users could only get 3 passes. Period.

That was also before current MDE. Initially the first option was booking them online from home or using the in-park kiosk. If you wanted to change the time, you had to stand in the VERY long kiosk lines. There was no option of using your phone to modify a FP.

It wasn't a matter of being savvy.

A little further on, I also attempted to refresh and it was useless. In that time, it didn't = new options. It only became useful after many IT updates to MDE. Again, it wasn't a matter of 'knowing,' I came up with the idea all on my own, and saw that it didn't do anything.

It only became an option years after FP+ was introduced.


A plus of paper FP- was that most CM's were flexible about returning later than your time window. if you got held up on a slow bus or something it was understood that these things happen at WDW. A short time before WDW moved to FP+ they got very strict about enforcing time windows. And of course, FP+ was strict about time windows. Early FP+ was terrible in that way.

The kiosk lines were often a solid 30+min wait! Totally useless.

In reference to the bolded...one time at Disneyland, I used an Indiana Jones paper FP...a week later! (right time, very wrong date).

 

[Grim Grinning Ghostie]

In reference to the bolded...one time at Disneyland, I used an Indiana Jones paper FP...a week later! (right time, very wrong date).

That's hilarious. Lucky for you, though! Indiana Jones is hands-down the best ride at DL.

 

[pixiedust2u]

For a trip down memory lane, I went back and looked... Yup. I would say the immediate sky is falling threads for FP+ are at least as bad as G+.

Which just kinda proves the point that everything is not as bad as people make it out to be. The system will be tweaked. This is probably not a hair worse than Disney expected and they know it will blow over.

Except genie + is far from everything that’s wrong with Disney right now. It’s so much more than that. I think anyone can go and still have magical time, but for each person or family it’s an assessment of value. The WDWexperience as a whole has to hold enough value for people to come away feeling good about it. You need something to offset the mess of genie+ and I don’t think there’s much to do that currently.
People who were upset about FP+ weren’t also dealing with issues like lack of mousekeeping, transportation and dining issues, missing shows and experiences (fantasmic, character meets and autographs), staffing issues etc etc. it’s everything all at once and then this facade that Chapek and his minions want to put on that everything is just all good… eck.

 

[MainMom]

Yes agree a lot of ifs I think I even highlighted them in my post.

And I meant the cap before you arrived and was referring really to Tier 1 rides....but anyway I agree with you that you could ride lots of stuff all day under FP+...as was the case with FP as well....and is still the case with Genie+ if you stay on site and if you pay (there's those ifs again lol). We make whatever system is in place work for us.

And I am not 100% wrong...at all...you missed the point. Sure you booked a FP+ under the old system and turned up whenever you wanted and rode your headliner...and you rode the other headliners in the park with long lines or skipped them...due to the tiering system. OR, you got up early.

but now, I can go late and ride multiple headliners with no wait. (but I do have to spend a few minutes on my phone at 7am, agreed, and I have to pay).

Please tell us how you are now going into HS and riding multiple headliners with no wait. We would all like to hear this strategy.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

I only glanced at the base version of Genie but thought it did a decent job of telling you "hey...you are in tomorrowland...a few steps away is auntie gravity's if you want ice cream and over yonder is the buzz ride" etc.

I could be wrong.

There was a test of the base Genie done by Touring Plans.......base Genie is a joke.

It basically avoided anything with a line and so the people were doing 2nd and 3rd tier rides.