Behaviour Help w/ DS 5 yo - Updt Pg 3 :)

[jodifla]

I have a 5 year old. I agree about the no-negotiation thing on rules.

But I don't take the attitude of "marching his booty into school" or anything confrontational.

I try to remember what a drag it is having someone else control almost your every move. I mean really, from his point of view, why can't he take the darn car into the school? (Of course, we know why we wouldn't want kids to take toys from home in there, but think of all the freedoms you have as an adult and take for granted.)

Anyway, I guess I'm saying that even though I don't negotiate, I have sympathy for his position. I don't get angry or belittle, I just try to be nice and a bit sympathetic. I tell him I'll have the car waiting for him when he gets out of school. And if he's whining, I'll just tell him, "Yes, I know. It's hard not to get what you want. But they don't want toys from home lost in the school. I'll have the car waiting for you when you come out of school."

This is a bit like the love and logic parenting, and I find I have very few fights in the morning these days.

 

[poohandwendy]

Just want to relate a story about little Jimmy...

I worked at a local farmer market and one day we were all subjected to 'Jimmy", we all knew his name well because this child carried on for about an hour in the market and we kept hearing "Will you please stop Jimmy" and it was obvious that his answer was no. She also kept saying, for an hour..."If you don't stop, we will leave". Obviously, not following through...much to our own chagrin. Right before his mother got in line to check out, he spotted the candy apples and started whining for one. She told him he was going into time out, she threatened an early bed time, she made all sorts of threats...
never following through.

Finally, when she was next in line, she grabbed a candy apple and threw it in his hand and said "There, are you HAPPY?" As if she was making some sort of point with him and he would hand it back to her and apologize. You could have heard a pin drop, people just stood there in disbelief that she actually gave in. Most women around just shook their heads and you can imagine what they all were thinking. You just taught him a lesson that bad behavior...really prolonged bad behavior...brings rewards.

 

[Daxx]

One (small) thing I will say in my defensive this morning was I was thinking it wouldn't be fair for me to march out of school and leave a freaking out little monkey for the gym monitor lady to deal with?? Not sure what others think about that? Daxx it looks like you might be a teacher - any thoughts?

Yes, leave the "freaking out little monkey" with me! Guarantee he'll calm down in 10 minutes!

I am a Kindergarten teacher and have handled my share of meltdowns! I have had parents leave their "freaking out little monkey w/me to deal with" more times than I can remember! Actually, it's easier when the parents leave their freaking out child w/me b/c the child knows he/she has no choice but to settle down. They know that they're not going to get their way w/me and accept that. To them, I'm an authoratative figure and not a pushover. Problem is that most parents are afraid to be the authoratative figure and want to be the "Yes" Mom. Sure, I am a loving, caring teacher ... but they know I will not give into them.

If a child is throwing a tantrum and Mom/Dad think they're going to stay til the bitter end, I won't allow it. Once you're gone, your child no longer has someone to manipulate and they forget about the whole thing. In less than 10 minutes, they're settled and ready to continue the day! It's easier for me to handle a freaking out tantrum w/o the parent there b/c the kids are no longer working on manipulating the parent for what they want. They're w/me, they know that I won't stand for a fit/tantrum, what I say goes and there's no way on earth that they can manipulate me! If a parent remains, they'll ignore me and continue to work on manipulating the parent until they get their way. My guess is that the gym monitor lady would have taken your freaking out child and told you to leave.

In the home, you have to establish that you're the authoratative figure and your child is not. I've had a lot of parents say "Can you come and live with us?" No, I can't come live w/you. You're the parent and you have to do the dirty work ... I can't do it for you. If you don't stop giving in and start putting your foot down then your children will no longer respect you. The biggest problem I have witnessed is that parents don't want to "hurt their child's feelings" by saying no. They don't want to be the "Mean Mommy". What's wrong w/being the "Mean Mommy"? It doesn't mean you don't love your children ... it means you love them enought to give them rules and repercussions for not following them. Sure I might be a strict mom, but I'm a fun mom, too.

Does this work for me at home?! Yep. B/c DS knew from day one that I was a force to be reckoned with! No means no ... no matter how hard you cajole, cry, etc. He tried it a few times (as all children will) and never won, so now he knows. But, I think this has to do a lot w/my teaching experience and not taking it from any kid let alone my own!!! Sure, to this day I'll get a "C'mon mom ... pleeeeease" and I say "Refresh my memory as to my first response." and he usually quits right there. He'll often tell me "I hate that you're a teacher b/c you bring it home with you".

The little girl who wet herself that I mentioned in the earlier post ... at the beginning of the year, Mom asked if it would be beneficial if she stayed in the classroom w/her DD. I said "Mom, are you going to live in her dorm room and go to her college classes, too? Stop enabling her!" I put my foot down, went to my principal and he backed me.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

There were days, when my kids were young, and I felt like a heel. I would be at the daycare center playing the "hard-hearted Hannah" part while many of the other mothers were cooing and coddling over the childrens' tantrums. I would just walk out. Yes, I did feel AWFUL and felt like I was the most unloving mom. Many years have passed and I know feel that I did the right thing.

Actually Christine, the day care teachers probably appreciated it. At day care, they cry because it gets a reaction. I bet the minute you walked out the door, they stopped. No audience, no show. The one's with the moms who stay and coddle are the ones that are prolonging the agony.

I have the same exact issue with my son that the OP does. He wants to bring his stupid little cars to school. He will sometimes sneak one into a pocket or something, but I always see it in the car before we get to school. I take it, he cries, I leave. End of story.

He still smiles and hugs me when I pick him up in the afternoon, I doubt I've done any lasting damage.

The best parenting advice I ever got was from my Dad. He said, "say it, mean it" That's the long and short of it. Good luck!

 

[Daxx]

I try to remember what a drag it is having someone else control almost your every move. I mean really, from his point of view, why can't he take the darn car into the school?

Too bad about his point of view. He has to learn that he can't take the car into school b/c it goes against the rules. A 5 yo needs to know that he needs to obey rules and that there are consequences if he doesn't obey the rules. If he's allowed to break this rule, he's going think nothing of breaking other rules in the future.

At age 5, a child needs someone to control almost their every move! Children need parameters, guidelines and rules to follow. There are lots of rules in life ... best to learn to follow them now.

And, at age 5, he doesn't care that you're going to have the car waiting for him the minute he gets out of school. To him, the end of the school days is an eternity away and what he wants is instant gratification.

 

[Daxx]

At day care, they cry because it gets a reaction. I bet the minute you walked out the door, they stopped. No audience, no show. The one's with the moms who stay and coddle are the ones that are prolonging the agony.

Yep! That's exactly it!

 

[CEDmom]

OP, you did dig yourself into a hole. Your DS likely shut down with all the consequences launched at him. Next time I'd remind him of the school rule and the consequences of disobeying it and then let it be. I think the first time the teacher takes the toy away will likely be the last time he takes a home toy to school.

 

[jodifla]

Too bad about his point of view. He has to learn that he can't take the car into school b/c it goes against the rules. A 5 yo needs to know that he needs to obey rules and that there are consequences if he doesn't obey the rules. If he's allowed to break this rule, he's going think nothing of breaking other rules in the future.

At age 5, a child needs someone to control almost their every move! Children need parameters, guidelines and rules to follow. There are lots of rules in life ... best to learn to follow them now.

And, at age 5, he doesn't care that you're going to have the car waiting for him the minute he gets out of school. To him, the end of the school days is an eternity away and what he wants is instant gratification.

Wow, did you even read my post? He didn't get the car. And it satisfied him that he'd have it when I picked him up.

What a hostile person you are.

And I find my way is working just great with my son. Because I have some sympathy for his position.

 

[ilovejack02]

I dont have any sympathy either... we ALLl must learn to follow the rules to bad if we dont like it
But if thats how some folks want to work it and it does ok with their kids... good deal.
I think its all in how we look at things, I do hear my self saying to DS sometimes, I understand you are upset and im sorry you feel that way.. and that does seem to kinda calm him if he gets upset about something ive said no too. But IF he continues fussing his booty gets marched to his room ; )



DAXX...... I LOVE LOVE LOVE John Rosemond's ideas on kids. I just read an article that his theory on timeouts have changed and I was all on board with it!!!

 

[poohandwendy]

I disagree with the sympathy approach too.

My job, my most important responsibility, is to raise my children prepared for and able to cope in the world. IMO, you aren't doing the child any favors by making the 'rules' the bad guy by acting as if they are unfair or something to sympathize with.

And I totally disagree with comforting and offering sympathy to a 5 yo who is whining about a toy. IMO, it is a mistake to reward bad behavior.

As always, we all have differing POV. This is why I raise my children the way I do and others make their own choices.

 

[jodifla]

Well, it's interesting to see all the hostility people have against their children! You gotta let them see you are right, and they are wrong. Smack down their psyches and keep them in line.

It's such antiquated thinking. I did basically the same thing as all of you, but I approached it with different intent. And my son responds much better when I do that. I'm firm, but don't engage in his anger with any of my own. When I say something, I follow through (most of the time.) But I let him know he has a right to his feelings. I don't dwell on it. I acknowledge it, and move on.

I learned this way from watching family members who work with gifted children. They teach children from with a true respect, and they get the most amazing things from them. These are children who grow up to be really incredible people. I've seen it time and time again, so it made me try some of their ways, and I find it really really works. Maybe not on every kid, but on probably most of them.

 

[poohandwendy]

Hostility? Smacking down their psyches? Antiquated thinking? That is the funniest thing I have read today...

 

[jodifla]

Hostility? Smacking down their psyches? Antiquated thinking? That is the funniest thing I have read today...

Oh, not to mention, closed minds.

No other way could be remotely right but yours, eh?

 

[poohandwendy]

Oh, not to mention, closed minds.

No other way could be remotely right but yours, eh?

I never said there was one right way. I disagreed with some of the methods you mentioned, period. Didn't attack you or call you names.

I am not the one accusing others of being closed minded, hostile, antiquated and smacking down their childrens psyches.

 

[jodifla]

I never said there was one right way. I disagreed with some of the methods you mentioned, period. Didn't attack you or call you names.

I am not the one accusing others of being closed minded, hostile, antiquated and smacking down their childrens psyches.

Again, I'm modeling methods I've seen work with gifted kids. They really rise to the occasion. And I find more often than not, my son does as well.

 

[CEDmom]

Well, it's interesting to see all the hostility people have against their children! You gotta let them see you are right, and they are wrong. Smack down their psyches and keep them in line.

It's such antiquated thinking. I did basically the same thing as all of you, but I approached it with different intent. And my son responds much better when I do that. I'm firm, but don't engage in his anger with any of my own. When I say something, I follow through (most of the time.) But I let him know he has a right to his feelings. I don't dwell on it. I acknowledge it, and move on.

I learned this way from watching family members who work with gifted children. They teach children from with a true respect, and they get the most amazing things from them. These are children who grow up to be really incredible people. I've seen it time and time again, so it made me try some of their ways, and I find it really really works. Maybe not on every kid, but on probably most of them.

They don't call me a psyche smacker for nothing . Forget college - I better just start saving for therapy

 

[ilovejack02]

I never said there was one right way. I disagreed with some of the methods you mentioned, period. Didn't attack you or call you names.

I am not the one accusing others of being closed minded, hostile, antiquated and smacking down their childrens psyches.

Come on Jodi, there are different ways of doing things. Ive got an 18 yr old who is a fab wonderful child actually young adult now. He starts culinary school in the fall and is looking at a bright bright future, no trouble with drugs drinking.
Parents who smack down their child's psyches are the screamers and the yellers and also the ones who dont set any boundries. I dont do any of those things, cuz frankly that doesnt work and its cruel ( where have I heard that before... wait thats another thread ). I expect my child to obey the rules, just like the rest of society does. His school expects it, his bosses will expect it, the police expect it and I expect it. If what you do works for you GREAT, what i do works for me and lots of others so it would be nice if you kept the name calling to a minimum.

 

[poohandwendy]

Again, I'm modeling methods I've seen work with gifted kids. They really rise to the occasion. And I find more often than not, my son does as well.

Good for you. I am modeling methods I have seen produce successful, responsible, productive and emotionally healthy adults, time and time again. You call it antiquated, I prefer to call it 'kid-tested and mother approved retro'

Like I said on the last page, we all have different POVs and we all make different choices. It's a beautiful world.

 

[lsyorke]

You call it antiquated, I prefer to call it 'kid-tested and mother approved retro'

 

[iloveboardwalk]

My hostile method probably works because my kids are not gifted, they're just normal...and occasionally really obnoxious.