Behavior Challenge Thread

[DisDreaminMom]

On this perseverating topic. My DS does this all the time. I think you need to just go along with it. Bookwormde is right. It's not a big deal- he just needs more info. And explanations that you might think are over his head are NOT. If you have big facts and he keeps asking about something, then throw them at the "wall" and see what sticks. I tell my DS the most insanely detailed information and if I don't have good stats for him, then we look it up. He likes bells- won't stop talking about them playing with then, seeing them in everything- then we look at bells on Youtube, at the library, etc.Now it's Paris- so I got every book from the library on Paris, every movie, etc. He does Googlemaps (by himself and he's 6!) and "flys' over Paris and the Eiffel Tower. You name the subject he's been interested in and I'm right on it. When he was REALLY into fans, I got him an HVAC book from the library. He memorized the pictures and looked at every air conditioning unit we saw. He was 4. Hard to explain to bystanders why DS is flapping and over the moon over a cluster of A/C units outside a building

So he's into Obama's election? Show him the stats from the county you live in or the national statistics. If you give him more facts, then he can actually talk more about subject and not seem like he's boring the heck out of everyone. (Day1- Who voted for Obama?: Day 2- 75% of voters in our county voted for Obama!: Day 3-Nationally, 53% of voters chose Obama.: Day 4- The electoral college will cast votes this way...) yeah, he's talking about the same thing, but the info changes and NT's don't notice as much.

How do I know so much about this? Mother was a museum curator, antiques and silver expert and author and definitely a touch of Aspie. That woman could go on forever on a subject that is so arcane, normal people would fall asleep. But she knows SO MUCH about stuff that even if you aren't interested when she starts a "lecture", you are by the time she's done. I lovingly call her "The cesspool of useless information". people from all over the world come to her for help and info, so I guess it's only useless if it doesn't apply to you...

Becky, aren't we long lost twins, too? I could have written your post about the homeschool conundrum. You should see my large stacks of paperwork, er, filing system. DH might divorce me over this- it drives him nuts. And I used to be an insurance agent and large warehouse manager and my paperwork was TIGHT! But not at home...

Day 5 of snow days. Calling for more snow storms on Monday. OMG. Now we will miss our Disney trip in June from make-up days.

 

[BeckyScott]

DisDreamin, I am following your logic on art class. I've taken many an art class myself, and so of course I have preferences on what kind of art I like the best. (pottery good, pastels bad) Maybe part of it, too, is due to my background, they had a fair amount of art at home. Like what the primary colors were and how to mix them into secondaries, etc etc, while they were in preschool. Youngest DS could also recite the colors in Spanish (thank you Dora the Explorer, can't speak in complete sentences but knows his colors in Spanish). And they both have pretty good skill, but of course it is in what I would call "autism drawing", which is something much more like technical drawings of Rube Goldberg machines, and not so much the proper shading of a still life. I think they would have much more fun in a CAD class. But still... gosh... you'd think that due to their general "I don't like to sweat" attitude that art would be pretty high on their list of faves.

koolaid- We sometimes play a game in the car called "who can not speak for the longest time?" Usually lasts about 6 seconds. And usually ends because one kid is ratting out the other kid. It's mostly oldest DS though, or definately when both kids are in the car. Youngest DS I have driven 2 hours home, just the two of us, with barely a word spoken. I think we both appreciate the silence.

Progress on the new behavior plan: They're pushing the limits now, which I knew would happen. Oldest DS is having trouble with the definitions of "talking back" and "arguing". And he also thinks that if he doesn't do those things, he should be awarded. I'm not so sure I agree with that, because that should be expected, it's not over-and-above exceptional behavior. Anyway, he tends to bug me about stuff (not persevering, but sort of maybe?) and even after I've said no, 10 seconds later here he comes again, with a different approach, trying to get a different answer. After about the 3rd time, I consider this very close to arguing. (it could be and could not be, I'd say you'd have to see it to figure it out, in his case I think it is) He'd make an excellent lawyer, as long as he'd never have to be in court before noon.

I've also had a lot of trouble this week with our schedule being different and the resulting trauma of that. I do try to keep things routine, but there is only so much one can do, and sometimes things are not in my control!

 

[BeckyScott]

Okay, guys, yesterday was horrible. I wanted the Dr. Phil camera.

I had decided after school to drive-thru and get the kids some food. Because DH and I had driven thru Sonic for breakfast and I felt guilty.

So the kids get out of school and DS's friend of course is with him, and I say I'll give him a ride home, but he can't come over today. And I drove him to his house (only about 5 blocks) and the entire time DS is arguing with me about it. I didn't want to tell him we were doing drive-thru and that I didn't want to pay for this kid's food, nor did I want him over at our house anyway. He won't leave it alone. Fortunately, his friend got the clue when I pulled into his driveway, so he got out and went home. DS is not pleased.

Then we go to get food and youngest DS only gets fries because that's all he can really eat from a fast-food place, so I order him 2 large orders and order oldest DS a kid's meal. Well, youngest DS wants curly fries (which I am pretty sure have gluten but I let that slide) and then oldest DS wants extra fries and they are both yapping and I am trying to order. And so oldest DS ends up with curly fries too, all we got were curly fries, and I guess he wanted regular fries. And he had a total fit in the car. Not an autism-meltdown fit, a full-blown angry yelling crying off-the-charts fit, which also included saying things that were just not in the least bit acceptable to me. We got home and he is in the backyard throwing stuff. We got inside the house and he doesn't want the fries. I told him I had frozen fries if he wanted those. He is still very mad. He takes the kid's meal. (eventually he does eat the fries in the meal) He eventually chills back out.

Later that evening, he is on the computer and his time ran out. His brother wants on and brings me a coupon. We have kinda had an unofficial rule that regardless of how many coupons you might have, you can only do an hour max at a time, then the other kid gets a turn if they want it. And he insisted that he'd only had 1/2 hour and wanted to renew, and I said no he'd had an hour. No, I only had 1/2 hour. Well I didn't put the coupons back in my "bank" they were laying right next to the timer, so I had it right there. And off he goes. Again. I told him to go to his room and stay there until he got his act together. About 15 minutes later he appears in the kitchen and he's still mad. I send him back to his room.

I am at the end of my rope. And my biggest problem is, that I don't know what is causing the behavior. I don't think this is Aspie, tell me if I'm wrong. It could be the ADHD and specifically the Adderall, except that it hadn't worn off yet. It could be puberty. And I'm wondering if the child is bi-polar, seriously, the way his mood flips around so fast. He only acts like this at home, and usually not around DH. Should I talk to the school counselor? Our ped? I personally have anxiety issues and ulcerative colitis and I am pretty much a total mess. DH works almost non-stop so it's on me 99% of the time.

 

[mechurchlady]

I have SID so I have some quirks that might help you though this. I have bolded my view of how I would see things If I was in your oldest son's shoes. Can we get them shoes in a larger and nicer smelling size?

So the kids get out of school and DS's friend of course is with him, and I say I'll give him a ride home, but he can't come over today. NOT FAIR And I drove him to his house (only about 5 blocks) and the entire time DS is arguing with me about it. YOUR ARE NOT FAIR, I WANT TO PLAY WITH MY FIREND. NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR. WE DO EVERYTHING YOU WANT BUT YOU NEVER DO ANYTHING I WANT TO DO. NOT FAIR.
I didn't want to tell him we were doing drive-thru and that I didn't want to pay for this kid's food, nor did I want him over at our house anyway. He won't leave it alone. Fortunately, his friend got the clue when I pulled into his driveway, so he got out and went home. DS is not pleased.

Then we go to get food and youngest DS only gets fries because that's all he can really eat from a fast-food place, so I order him 2 large orders and order oldest DS a kid's meal. Well, youngest DS wants curly fries (which I am pretty sure have gluten but I let that slide) and then oldest DS wants extra fries and they are both yapping and I am trying to order. And so oldest DS ends up with curly fries too, all we got were curly fries, and I guess he wanted regular fries.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR. YOU GIVE HIM TWICE AS ME. NOT FAIR. YOU ARE FAVORING HIM AND GIVING HIM SPECIAL FRIES. NOT FAIR. MAKE THIS FAIR NOW!!!!!!
And he had a total fit in the car. Not an autism-meltdown fit, a full-blown angry yelling crying off-the-charts fit, which also included saying things that were just not in the least bit acceptable to me. We got home and he is in the backyard throwing stuff. We got inside the house and he doesn't want the fries. I told him I had frozen fries if he wanted those.
I DO NOT WANT YOUR STINKING STUPID FROZEN FRIES. I WANT TO BE TREATED THE SAME OR BETTER THAN MY BROTHER.
I WANT A DOUBLE ORDER OF CURLY FRIES LIKE HIM.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR. GIVE ME EXACTLY WHAT MY BROTHER GOT.
He is still very mad. He takes the kid's meal. (eventually he does eat the fries in the meal) He eventually chills back out.

Later that evening, he is on the computer and his time ran out. His brother wants on and brings me a coupon. We have kinda had an unofficial rule that regardless of how many coupons you might have, you can only do an hour max at a time, then the other kid gets a turn if they want it.
MOM I WANT THE COMPUTER FOR A LITTLE LONGER.
(note to self that that did not work)
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR
I WANT THE COMPUTER SO GIVE IT TO ME.
NOT FAIR THAT I CANNOT HAVE THE COMPUTER.
IT IS MINE, DO NOT TAKE IT AWAY.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR.
And he insisted that he'd only had 1/2 hour and wanted to renew, and I said no he'd had an hour. No, I only had 1/2 hour. Well I didn't put the coupons back in my "bank" they were laying right next to the timer, so I had it right there. And off he goes. Again. I told him to go to his room and stay there until he got his act together. About 15 minutes later he appears in the kitchen and he's still mad. I send him back to his room.

Part of aspie thinking and SID thinking is justice. They need things to be just and fair. Your son has a bad case of the NOT FAIR BUG. Any time he does not get his way he will have a hissy fit as it is not fair to him. You gave one some special fries and double. It does not matter why you did it but that you did it. We cannot understand right now that the other kid would not get enough to eat. You took away his play time even though you had a reason. You took away his computer time even though you had a reason.

You are killing yourself with the kid. You need to take control and training him in social skills and how to deal with the NOT FAIR BUG. He does not act taht way with his dad so why? You got to start studying when he goes all out with fits over the NOT FAIR BUG. You see that with your husband he knows he cannot get away with it. What would your husband do if the kid threw a fit? In school he is not allowed to have them fits but with mom anything goes.

First place is with your husband as he has to know that he needs to step in for a little bit each day and get you a nanny or something to help you. Does he act this way on days with no school? If so then the problem is his not respecting you and bullying you into giving in. If it was not on weekends then it would be the stress of school that was pushing him to the edge. If on weekends when he is fresh and stress free then he should not be having the problem so much.

I send you hugs and coffee and am grounding your for a week in a time out corner in a spa in Arizona or maybe the Napa Valley.

 

[bookwormde]

Becky,

Since you are using the “behavior” based model I have tried not to “comment” but my experience is that it really does not work for any extended period of time. This is especially true when it involves an area of special interest or preferred visual input. Generally trying this just creates maladaptive manifestations which spiral out of control, often at an amazing rate. Skill development and logic are the only way I have been able to make progress.

Sorry you are having such a tough time, but in the end you will learn a lot from the “experiment”.

bookwormde

 

[BeckyScott]

Skill development and logic are the only way I have been able to make progress.

Can you explain this in more detail? Specific examples? If there is a better way to handle it, I will be more than willing to listen.

 

[mechurchlady]

http://www.socialskillbuilder.com/articles/socialskillsASDchildren.html
I am reading this right now.

Basically autistic kids lack social skills. They have to be taught things like how to converse, how to end a conversation, how to read people, and how to read people so as to understand the outcome of the person's body language.

Your son is hit with the NOT FAIR BUG. If faced with that situation he focuses on the BUG instead of being able to read other stuff around him. Normally a mother says NO and the kid whimpers and whines then shuts up. Your son cannot read you and understand that you mean NO. He needs to learn that.

When the BUG hits at home in my office it can last hours and I pay for it physically. At work, church, and in the car I have had to learn not to have a hissy fit and scream at people even if I am right. For me I learned a lot of this late in life, believe it or not. Like that woman who had a parking space right next to her but she went in front of me and took a space that I was going to park in. I have that blue tag on my windshield. I could have beat up her car or screamed at her or found her in the store and dropped hints and stuff or even explain to her that she was NOT FAIR. I could have but did not because of constant badgering from online friends and self awareness and education.

Becky, you wait for bookworm and he can technically explain everything you need to know. I will leave you with big hugs and chocolates and coffee.

Hugs
LAurie

 

[bookwormde]

You must do a lot of the same analytical work that is used for ABA, but instead of focusing on behaviors you work on the underlying skill that is missing or incomplete.

It is especially important not to overlook what may seem to be the most basic skill. And many times a single manifestation comes from a great number of missing or deficit skills, which may be layered on top of each other in a “helix” fashion.

Sometime you use specific reward model (with reduced frequency with time) for “enticement” but often just being to have the child understand the “logic” behind the skill is more effective.

Unfortunately to do the analytical portion you have to “let go” of all the innate sociological assumptions which takes great intellectual understanding of this area and to work from an almost “other worldly” perspective. It is one of the most difficult things a neurotypical can try to do, probably more difficult than a spectrum individual trying to understand nuerotypical social conventions, which lack a logical basis.

While not completely following the full analytical model, the simplest version is to take a situation, which you believe is “damaging” to your child and his future and “pick it apart”. Avoid all social assumptions; see what is “driving” your child in these situations (anxiety, neurovariant needs, such as visual input, perfectionism, non linear data input, missing skill avoidance etc.). If there are sensory issues they must be accommodated for first. Once you can identify a skill, which is involved, you need get the child to buy into the “logic” of the skill and provide other enticements as needed. Then practice the skill in a visually reinforced program (charts, pictures etc) and generalize it to other situations. Often since areas, which are identified within a critical “behavior”, are difficult to address directly in the beginning it is better to work on them in an alternate situation and then after reasonably mastered try to expend and incorporate the skill into the more challenging area.

Just be careful as with all things that the reason is not just trying to make the child “more neurotypical” but has a reasonable and logical non-social basis for the need for a change.

Looking back to your original plan there are 2 things that you might want to look at, first is what was the logical basis for reducing “visual” time. Second is were you using socially based assumptions, rewards and goals and was there a plan as to how to fade the rewards once the “behavior” was obtained (and if you adapt the skills model, what skills would improve the situation). And always never use an area of “special interest” as either a reward or punishment no matter how convenient or effective it seems initially since the repercussions are severe in the long run.

The not fair thing is very common when the child had not “bought into” the logic and basis for anything, which is affecting him since in his mind it, makes “no sense” and is just a “personal assault” on his sense of justice

As we all know there are no easy answers

bookwormde

 

[Schmeck]

And the most difficult thing to do is realize that one person's sense of logic is not the same as another's, so each of the steps bookwormde mentioned above is a unique thing for each person. Even those diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome each have their own unique sense of logic and justice and thus cannot be lumped together. I find it a satisfying challenge to find the key that unlocks a student's awareness and watch them have success where they used to struggle. I wish I could tell of some success stories, but confidentiality laws prevent me. But think of the joy a parent would feel when they learn that their son just asked another boy to eat lunch with him, for the first time ever, without prompting!

 

[bookwormde]

Yes it is like playing detective in a country that you do not speak the “language” or know the customs.


bookwormde

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Wow, I just jumped on here to relax and here we are, in full blown discussion of the NOT FAIR thing. I laughed so hard I cried at Mechurchlady's wonderful interpretation of Becky's day with boys. Classic!

I have to laugh, too because I have a strong case of this social justice thing and frankly, it has been my downfall most of my life. It's rather ironic that I'm the only one in my family that is NOT a lawyer (Dad was attorney; mother had law degree and social work degree, had psych patient kill herself in front of her, and became museum curator and now writes books and appraises antiques and does strange historical research; my sister is attorney; aunt is attorney; uncle is, best friend since 3rd grade is, multiple cousins are-you get the picture). I have always been into horses (have double B.A. in horses and management), but when not working on horse farms (usually quit over some injustice), I have worked at White Castle, as an insurance agent, a trainer for Franchise owners for a large corporation, a warehouse manager, self-employed horse trainer, a store manager at the mall, and after eight years of being at home with kids, part time at Disney Store ('cause it's a happy place).

I was thinking the other day that if you read my resume, I look schizophrenic. I did like most jobs I had, and have always been promoted quickly and only been fired once (because someone wanted my job-not for poor performance), but I was constantly looking for some magic place where management was "fair" and life was organized. I'll be 38 this year and remember coming to conclusion that I need to just get over myself (last year, actually). It has been so refreshing to let go of my NOT FAIR thing and now I am firmly entrenched in the concept of "GET OVER IT".

Guess what? I love art, but hated art class. Get the picture? You are seeing your son's future now, and it looks vaguely like my past......

So what I am babbling about is that Bookwormde is right- your logic stinks- Aspie wise. Children like yours are having a conversation with themselves during your dealings with them and they DO sound like what Mechurchlady says. Now that I see it, I try this:

[Pulling up to drive through and kids are loud] "If you are not quiet, I can't hear the speaker and you will get pickles on your burger and you will be sad".

[Computer time is causing kids to literally fist fight] "DD gets more time because she --- and you chose not to. If you do ---- next time, then you will get same time."

Sometimes I just say "Because I said so!!!" but it never "sticks". I have to make the most dire predictions of the outcome to make sure things work. "You need to stop being upset over not getting dear friend over or else he will never be invited back to the house again because you can't control your reaction when I said he couldn't come".

We went to Superbowl party at DH's coworker's house. They have two young children- like 4 and 2- and DS was SOOOOO good. Never stimmed, never got too loud, played so well with baby and little girl, never whined, even picked up the toys he was playing with when it was time to go, thanked the host and hostess. ALL WITHOUT PROMPTING!!!

Where is my son? What did the aliens do with him? I'm guessing it was because it's much easier for him to socialize with younger children. He's 6 but got along famously with 4 year old girl. He could play with her dollhouse and she never made fun of him....

 

[mechurchlady]

Part of the problem with dealing with spectrum and other quirks is that the parent comes from a family with quirks and has their own hidden quirks. My great Grandmother was not quite like her husband, her daughter is my grandmother who once put a dead pigeon in my mother's bed and was a prankster, her children all have quirks, and now me and my cousins have quirks.

We do not see the quirks however because we are raised as if they are normal. It is like the white child seeing an asian child for the first time. The white child does not come from that culture where people take off shoes and leave them in front of the house. Its culture eats with utensils while the asian child may use chopsticks, fingers, or bread to scoop up food. If everyone in the world that you know had 6 fingers on each hand, a tail, and a third eye you would be the freak.

I am glad I made you laugh but for me that is how I think. I have neurovariations but think of myself as a frequent flyer on Air Spectrum.

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Dearest Mechurchlady, I'm not laughing AT you, I'm laughing WITH you

Oh, Becky I was re-reading your earlier post and I did have another thought. Perhaps your DS's are just acting like teenagers? I mean, it's not a fancy title, but one that is going to start being more and more applicable..

 

[BeckyScott]

Okay, more specific questions, although they are probably applicable in several situations. I will back up to the infamous Friday.

First off, I figured out what the confusion was at Hardee's. It was the word "regular". A very simple mistake to make. Oldest DS wanted a kid's meal and a regular fries. His translation- regular as opposed to curly. What I heard- regular as opposed to small (or large). Since youngest DS was also asking for "regular" fries, and he meant as opposed to small, well yes it was my mistake but a mistake that anyone could make. That is, as simply as it can be, what happened. Should I have clarified- probably. However, in the confusion of trying to order, plus my car window doesn't work so I had to *open the door* and it is January, plus the general chaos of both kids after school, plus as usual I was so busy juggling what the kids wanted that I hadn't thought about what to order for myself and was throwing that together last-minute, it was an easy enough mistake to make. The reaction I got was that I was stupid and that I don't listen and that life was a horrible miserable thing.

I being n/t (I guess) here are things as I see them-- 1. we're not turning the car around, (edited to clarify: we're not going back because I only had $15 and no I'm not stopping at an ATM because we have a budget) 2. it was an honest mistake and I didn't do it on purpose, and 3. they're fries for heaven's sake, and 4. if it's that big of a deal to have straight instead of curly there are straight fries at home I can cook up, which I think is at least me trying to make amends, which is pretty generous of me considering I just got told I was stupid. I realize the idea behind #3 doesn't fly with the ASD crowd.

So then I have an 11-year-old in my front seat, hysterical, and I have no idea what I am supposed to do to fix it.

Also, and this is yet another problem, what about subject areas or decisions where, honestly, it is a "because I said so" situation? Because there is more to the subject than what the child needs to know. Because maybe it is an adult topic. Or maybe because you, as an adult, know better. I can try logic but I can tell you what will happen, because I've been there done that. Little friend can't come over today. Why not. Because I said so. (okay that isnt going to work) He can't come over today because we have things to do. Like what? We need to run some errands. Well he can come with us. No, I don't want to have him along. Why not? Because his mom is at work and it's not a good idea for me to be driving him around in my car when she doesn't know where he is. Well he can use your phone and call her. Okay, okay, STOP already. I don't want to drag another kid with me around town, period, two is plenty and he's not my responsibility, and there comes a point pretty quick where I don't want to have this discussion, because no matter what I say, there will be a counter-point. It could go on for years, this same discussion. Or maybe I don't want you going over to his house because as parents, we have decided that the atmosphere there is not what we would like (I am phrasing that as politely as I can), so that oldest DS can run back to his friend and tell him that we don't like his parents? Um, no.

At any rate, we had a nice long talk Saturday and got some things cleared up. I think. I don't think what I am looking at is totally Aspie behavior, I think that there is a little hormone action going on, and a little confusion about the role of all the members of the family.

I'm not meaning to sound snippy. I know we are dealing with a whole lot of "not fair" bug, the Aspie-ness combined with the whole problem of youngest DS's autism and the additional attention he has received. So it's not even like a "typical" sibling "not fair" bug, it's more extreme. I can relate myself, personally, to the "not fair" bug. Bottom line is though, that sometimes things aren't fair, they just aren't, and sometimes parents make decisions that you might not like. How do I teach that?

 

[Schmeck]

So then I have an 11-year-old in my front seat, hysterical, and I have no idea what I am supposed to do to fix it.



I'm not meaning to sound snippy. I know we are dealing with a whole lot of "not fair" bug, the Aspie-ness combined with the whole problem of youngest DS's autism and the additional attention he has received. So it's not even like a "typical" sibling "not fair" bug, it's more extreme. I can relate myself, personally, to the "not fair" bug. Bottom line is though, that sometimes things aren't fair, they just aren't, and sometimes parents make decisions that you might not like. How do I teach that?

First point - you're not the one who will fix the hysterics because the fries were curly. Your 11 year old will fix it, you just need to find the right tools for him to use. Basically, you need to ask him (when he's not fixating on the curly fries) what would be a proper response when he doesn't get what he wants? What response would help him get what he wants? Ask him how having a hissy fit is going to help him get the fries he likes? Play into the need for logic and justice. Validate his right to have feelings (no one's feelings are ever right or wrong, they're our feelings, period. What we do with our feelings is the sticking point). Yes, it's disappointing to have the wrong fries. You'd love to get the right kind, but the hysterics are preventing you from getting them. You've got to find that 'logical' place, of pointing out consequences to actions.

The 'not fair' bug is a bit trickier - you don't want to get into the 'you owe me' mode, as that can really backfire. Lots of positive support for showing patience, maybe a moderate reward system (but don't get into negotiations!) and a bit of reverse psychology. Set up a situation where it is more 'fair' to your elder son, and 'not fair' to your youngest (he doesn't even have to know about it - give the older one a bigger cookie, etc) As long as the older one won't go and lord it over the younger one, I've found that this works pretty well.

 

[mechurchlady]

First of all regular fries are not like frozen fries or them curly fries. I used to live for fries and have sensory issues. What you have said is like saying that all cookies are alike. Hey kid have a Lorna Doone as it is a cookie just like an Oreo.
BIG MISTAKE

You gave him the wrong food then said they were all alike. The aspie in him said ILLOGICAL. Mom can you not see the difference in calories, taste, texture, shape, smell, feel, and look? ILLOGICAL, DOES NOT COMPUTE. Thus you set of an aspie trigger which was giving him a blatantly false statement. Then you kept being ILLOGICAL. You then set off the NOT FAIR BUG by not going back and getting what he wanted. IT IS NOT FAIR that you would drive back if they gave you chicken nuggets instead of steak so why are you not doing the same for me? NOT FAIR BUG then bites him hard because again you are ILLOGICAL. What person in their right mind accepts bad service and getting the WRONG ORDER?


Break time for Becky

Now for the fight in the car about the boy. What I do with mother is stop it. Right then and there. WHY? and I say end of conversation. It is something about the kids with ODD that are so defensive and other stuff.

==========================\
Their is the line and that is it. I am not going to go get the newspaper in the rain, end of story and no guilt trips. No more questions. That is the only way to deal with it. You have the talk and show him logically that sometimes parents have things they do which is UNFAIR to your son and others because the parents cannot tell kids certain things.

It is hared but you have to stop the responding. When he said why then you explain that you have errands and cannot take the friend. When you said his mom would not know where her son is then you opened up a LOGICAL ANSWER which was use the cell phone. With my mother she lacks in logic, lol but she does the same as your son but with fighting. She threatens to go to a nursing home and sell the house. She talks about how I do not love her and care for her and then cringes when I yell. One thing after another because she did not get her way.

STOP, draw the line, and end the conversation. You made a mandate and that is it, end of conversation. If he keeps it up then ignore him. He will keep coming back for more and more. The aspie in him does not understand your reasoning and there has to be a solution. While this is most often seen in ODD children or what ever that offensive defiant disorder is. Even kids who are not autistic do the very same thing. Why Daddy? lol.

I need a nap. I just got to finish stuff and replan my week because of Calvin.

I send you all hugs and chocolates and coffee and dole whips.
Laurie

 

[bookwormde]

I limit the “I said so” category to issues of safety, law and major disruption of someone else’s life or serious damage to property, My son has been briefed as to the importance and logic of this and in the vast majority of circumstances it “works”.

It does take a lot of time to explain the reasons and logic to a spectrum child but is from my experience the only way to get them to “buy into” the decisions. Most spectrum children do not discriminate between adults and children so the social “I am the adult” is pretty much useless, this is especially true since they see adults doing things with little apparent logical basis (or if there is one it has not been fully explained).

I do think that much of what you are facing is a combination of things, but it is my suspicion that the ramp up of manifestations and events is due to heightened anxiety from the “experiment”, this can be especially acute with “self adapters” when their world changes. My son’s teacher at school tried some “neurotypical” structures at school (despite my warning to the contrary) and within 2 month the whole school environment became non functional for my son. It has taken over a month to get things “back on track”.

As to teaching the “sometimes things are not fair”, I do not have a good answer since in so many cases there is really no reason other than social convention and convenience, the one area I have been able to make progress on is getting my son to look beyond the isolated immediate event and consider the “fairness” in the bigger picture and over a span of time.

One other thing I have found helpful is to review how DS’s actions impact others, including you. This is not a “guilt” thing but provides a broader perspective for him to make decision from.

Everything is a “work in progress”

bookwormde

 

[PrincessMom4]

Hey all,

here's another scenerio... my DD9 is a bright child and has a heart made of gold. However when she doesn't get what she wants or can't handle a simple situation she has a MELTDOWN. We have been trying to get help since she was 4. She has now been tested for autism (the results are not conclusive as it shows some signs) and aspergers (she lacks the social skills). She has a low working memory and almost no social skills at all. We are working with a couple of psychologists to get her on the right track. Right now we are learning about " our bucket" which is in each of us and this bucket fills up with our demands and expectations. When we have more demands/expectations than we have coping skills for our buckets gets FULL. We are teaching her to make sure that bucket stays half full (if the bucket is empty you get the "I am bored" syndrome). Teaching her that when she gets overwhelmed by things like people screaming or talking to loud that is making her bucket FULL and when this happens what does she need to do. She says I need space and usually goes to her room to read or something that she wants to do in her room (ie play barbie's, dolls, etc).

 

[mechurchlady]

Anyone wnat to disect Calvin and find out what is up with him?
I know he has to watch his temper, hissy fit about someone stealing our parking space.

He likes to talk to little girls and mentioned to me how much girls of a certain age love the parks. Pain and annoyance led me to overlook this but He needs to stop as it freaks parents. Wait there is more which is puzzling to me.

Mac n Cheese. He asked me twice at DLR and then the next day asked mom if he could make her some of his delishus yummmy home made macaroni and cheese. Pride done hit him on that subject. Mom was in shut down full-turtleshell mode and not happy with Calvin redoing our kitchen and cleaning it.

So now I have two instances where he has hounded me or obsessed on something. It was pouring rain but he had to stop for chips then stop for ice cream while I was soaking wet. HELLO, anyone in the skull. If not for Mark the plaid I would have meltdown big time and was crying and getting sick but he could not remember that mom has to be fed by 6 PM every day because of her diabetes and I am the meal maker. It was like with a kid who did not want to go home despite the odds against us.

Calvin cleaned the kitchen but I still have on the top shelf, 7.5 feet off the groung, leaning stacks of stuff put up there by his employee. He put the toaster on the second shelf from the top despite the fact that I keep the toaster on the third shelf for allergy control, bread away from food. My spices where way on the top shelf of the rack not eye level on the second. It took me a while to find my knives. He had to put away stuff even though I have to have things on the counter. I avoid stress so grabbing a potato peeler off the counter is less stressful than trying to find one in a drawer, a coping technique.

Breathes and grumbles. I slept sound and long that night and came in to find a big triangle of water in the kitchen by the sink. He did not put the rubber thing down so anything could fall through the sink into the bucket full of moldy water. I forgot to mention that Calvin leaves the back door open, um, I was screaming at him because we have one space heater for mom and cannot have the house chilled. I wonder where my pliers are as I use them for removing fish and stuff from meat.'

He does not like to be rushed either. Pick a jacket that fits but he was like a kid and had to try them all on. Rain jacket, your size. Wasted time.

I am wondering if there is not something wrong like aspie but he is not aspie. I have been around men in someway since I was born and at least my dad cleaned up after himself when working in the kitchen but then again he feared mom. I am so used to ignoring mom that I wonder if I have ignored things about Calvin. He is a big lovable lug and a Barney Bear type of guy. As a brother he is fun to be around as long as he has a handler and some training. I need a handler and take a friend who needs more handling than me, what was I thinking.

Thanks for letting me talk this out as this is the first time in a long while that I slept 4 + 4 hours probably. Deep sleep and I made me a snuggly tight nest in my bed with pillows and snug blankets. Swaddling for me is very good but how do you swaddle when you are my size.

hugs and chocolates
Laurie

 

[bookwormde]

PrincessMom4

What you describe from my experience is not the typical “I am not getting what I want” but more of a “nobody understands me and I can not understand this illogical world I am in”. This creates chronic anxiety (which girls hide much better than boys), which is why the rapid ramp up to melt down levels.

One way to think about it is that you have to “plan” your whole world to make it manageable, when on piece (need/want) is removed the whole puzzle falls apart.

Sounds like with your bucket approach you are teaching skills so that is good, and is very helpful once a number of skills become well adapted into her life.

The memory/ auditory processing thing is very typical for spectrum individuals and really should be a big piece for the clinician’s evaluation. It comes from our visual nature and our non-discriminatory non-linear memory structure. This information is “filed” but is not prioritized in short-term “electrical” memory, especially if it is verbal, which is a completely linear structure.

Every description you give says Aspie and if she were a male, she would have more of the physical manifestations and would be a simple Aspergers diagnosis. The problem is that DSM-iv was written based almost completely on the male model. Even at that with reduced innate social skills, auditory processing issues, sensory issues it is hard to believe that a competent clinician would not be able to give a formal diagnosis. One thing that a lot of parents of female Apies do is video tape their daughters meltdowns and other anomalies which may not be apparent during interviews (like they are with males). I have talked to a few parents who as soon as they showed these tapes to clinicians got a proper diagnosis.

Transitions are one of the most challenging skills to teach but as we have made progress with our son it has also been one of the most helpful and rewarding (we work on it big time during our trips to WDW). Adjusting the bucket level is something that comes with maturity and self-awareness of the nature of her neurovariation.

bookwormde