Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[tarheelmjfan]

Of course we were happy - WE weren't paying it, DISNEY was.

Let's not forget that many people weren't happy with DISNEY automatically paying the servers 18%, even though it was DISNEY'S money being spent not theirs.

 

[fires_grumpy]

I think that the server at buffet work just as hard if not harder. I do not work in the restaurant at WDW or any where else. When I see people letting there kids make the mess that I see. I was in Crystal Palace last Oct 07 and this kis had more food on the floor then what his parents had eaten. Not say every kid does this but I have seen it many times. The sever has to clean this mess up after they leave. I feel sorry for them "the sever " for the mess. And I wonder do the parents leave a bigger tip to clean up " I BET NOT" This kid was throwing cookies across the room. And the father was putting them in front of him as he threw them.I know he threw 6 cookies thill he ran out. And the server was there to pick them up. I try to clean up after myself before I leave my table. I guess I`m from the OLD SCHOOL. And I`m on the DDE card and most of the time left 20 to 25% of org billing. I can say in 5 years of trips to WDW 2 to 3 trips a year I only got 1 bad server. That mess i talked about in not the only one I have seen at buffets. I have never seen the messes like that at non buffets. So I think those severs at the buffets earn every dollar they get.

 

[rt2dz]

I'm sure buffet servers would disagree with you - maybe Dizserver knows one who will post here with her/his experiences?
As for lounge service - how much DO you tip the bartender who made your drink? Eighteen percent of a $5 drink is ninety cents; 18% of an $8 drink is $1.44. An $11 drink would approach incurring a $2 tip.

When at a bar, industry standard is $1 per drink. With all of Disney's speciality drinks that are over $11, you are doubling the industry standard.

 

[rt2dz]

I think that the server at buffet work just as hard if not harder. I do not work in the restaurant at WDW or any where else. When I see people letting there kids make the mess that I see. I was in Crystal Palace last Oct 07 and this kis had more food on the floor then what his parents had eaten. Not say every kid does this but I have seen it many times. The sever has to clean this mess up after they leave. I feel sorry for them "the sever " for the mess. And I wonder do the parents leave a bigger tip to clean up " I BET NOT" This kid was throwing cookies across the room. And the father was putting them in front of him as he threw them.I know he threw 6 cookies thill he ran out. And the server was there to pick them up. I try to clean up after myself before I leave my table. I guess I`m from the OLD SCHOOL. And I`m on the DDE card and most of the time left 20 to 25% of org billing. I can say in 5 years of trips to WDW 2 to 3 trips a year I only got 1 bad server. That mess i talked about in not the only one I have seen at buffets. I have never seen the messes like that at non buffets. So I think those severs at the buffets earn every dollar they get.

You're right. A lot of people don't tip for the extra mess. They don't realize that the server is responsible for cleaning up that mess--or the next person wouldn't like it much. I do have to say, as a parent, I either tip extra or clean up after my kids to leave it in the same shape I found it. I also pay table rent.

It's not about the money. It's about the dictatorship of it.

 

[dejr_8]

There seems to be an opinion that being a server at a buffer is hard work. That may be true.

What I am arguing regarding the fixed tip level is that their effort has less impact on the quality of the enjoyment of my meal. So even the BEST buffer worker can't impact my meal quality to a large degree.

At a table service place, the server can make food suggestions, make sure the food arrives hot (or cold as appropriate), shows up at the right time to ask about dessert, etc. Their performance DIRECTLY impacts upon my enjoyment. This translate into a higher tip percentage.

Just because someone works hard at a particular job (buffer server) doesn't mean the effort is worth as much as at another job (table server).

To push the example to the absurd - A garbage collector (sorry sanitation engineer) works much harder than a physician but we don't pay the garbage collector more money because the service the physician supplies has a higher value.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Now no one can force you to pay a grautity even if it is included, even if it isn't a service issue. Any customer can simply say, I don't agree with that assesment--and I'm sure that would be Disney's issue. But how many people are going to wait for their server to come over to collect the check, ask for the manager, wait for the server to find the manager, wait for the manager to come by, then complain to/negotiate with the manager, wait for the check to be adjusted, then wait for payment to be collected and processed?

Ideally, if service is bad enough to warrant this action, the diner will start taking action WELL before the check comes, no?

And just out of curiousity, how many international travelers buy DDE?

It doesn't matter. Despite the focus on this 'explanation', it is NOT why Disney changed the DDE tipping policy.

re: Buffet servers - the enjoyment of my meal at a buffet location is not as dependent on the ability/attentiveness of the server as much as it is at a table service location.

But it could - particularly if used plates from several diners' prior trips to the buffet continue to mount up on the table.

Just because someone works hard at a particular job (buffer server) doesn't mean the effort is worth as much as at another job (table server).

That's your opinion. I'd love to hear from somebody who's worked as a server in both types of restaurants.

To push the example to the absurd - A garbage collector (sorry sanitation engineer) works much harder than a physician but we don't pay the garbage collector more money because the service the physician supplies has a higher value.

Apparently you've never lived through a sanitation engineer strike

 

[wdw4us2]

What I am arguing regarding the fixed tip level is that their effort has less impact on the quality of the enjoyment of my meal. So even the BEST buffer worker can't impact my meal quality to a large degree.

At a table service place, the server can make food suggestions, make sure the food arrives hot (or cold as appropriate), shows up at the right time to ask about dessert, etc. Their performance DIRECTLY impacts upon my enjoyment. This translate into a higher tip percentage.

That's exactly how I feel.

I also think the change will end up hurting the servers in the long run. Many DDE members tip well above 18% and I just don't see them doing that now.

 

[FDV]

Not in my experience - I waited tables and tended bar for over 14 years - on the average, servers make quite a decent living, especially in light of minimal qualification requirements. I averaged $20 an hour of more (and at least double that tending bar), and that was 25-30 years ago! Yes, it can be hard work, but it is often quite satisfying, both financially and otherwise.

I suspect the wait staff does very well at some of the higher class restaurants. I'm only guessing, but I suspect an average server handles 6 tables at a time. If the average bill is $100, then the tip is $18. Average table stay is 1.5 hours, so that's about $70/hr in tip revenue. 40/hr week = $2800. 48 weeks per year = $135k! I realize that the tip is shared amongst the kitchen help and buss staff, but that still isn't a bad living. And then you consider they only claim 8% of that not the 18%, and it really gets good. Now granted, I suspect the wait staff at Breakfastasaurus don't do nearly as well.

I have heard that in some very high class restaurants, (not WDW), that the wait staff actually has to pay the restaurant owner a fee to work there. They can easily make a 6 figure salary.

 

[FDV]

That's exactly how I feel.

I also think the change will end up hurting the servers in the long run. Many DDE members tip well above 18% and I just don't see them doing that now.

Not very likely. I think you would be surprised how many people leave very small tips, or no tip at all. And many will still leave extra cash on the table. And many will not realize the tip is automatically added, and will double tip. That happens all the time at restaurants that auto add a tip.

 

[Colleen27]

On single drinks I would probably tip the following (using you examples)

I would leave a buck on the $5 beer, $2 bucks on the $8 drink and probably $2 on the $11 drink as well. So in those cases I exceeded the 18% tip level.

Where I have the issue with a flat 18% is if my wife and I have several drinks in the bar (and have to go up to the bar each time to get the drinks and return empties) and drop $40 bucks (easy to do at Disney with expensive drinks). I would probably give a $6 tip for that - a straight 15%.

re: Buffet servers - the enjoyment of my meal at a buffet location is not as dependent on the ability/attentiveness of the server as much as it is at a table service location.

I've always gone by the $1/drink guideline, unless I'm requesting something particularly complicated or customized, but the difference between 18% and what I'd normally leave isn't enough to bother me.

Where the auto 18% on alcohol would bother me is when I'm ordering wine by the bottle. It is still customary to exclude expensive wines from the tab for the purposes of calculating tip (speaking only of waitstaff here, because tipping a sommilier is a different issue entirely). I generally add a flat $10 or so to the tip when I order a bottle of wine regardless of the wine cost, so on a $40 bottle, 18% is less than I'd normally leave, but on a $150 bottle, it is *significantly* more.

 

[kaytieeldr]

But double-tipping should not occur, given that all DDE members have received the update on the exciting new changes AND the clarification e-mail.

 

[FDV]

I've always gone by the $1/drink guideline, unless I'm requesting something particularly complicated or customized, but the difference between 18% and what I'd normally leave isn't enough to bother me.

Where the auto 18% on alcohol would bother me is when I'm ordering wine by the bottle. It is still customary to exclude expensive wines from the tab for the purposes of calculating tip (speaking only of waitstaff here, because tipping a sommilier is a different issue entirely). I generally add a flat $10 or so to the tip when I order a bottle of wine regardless of the wine cost, so on a $40 bottle, 18% is less than I'd normally leave, but on a $150 bottle, it is *significantly* more.

In that case, a $10/bottle tip on the wine I order would be about a 120% tip.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

"Many DDE members tip well above 18% and I just don't see them doing that now."

Absolutely agree with that statement.. usually DDE members are people who enjoy the dining aspect of WDW, appreciate the service. It is not inexpensive to have this membership, first the purchase of an annual pass, then the purchase of the membership, and if you want more than one card, another small purchase to have both spouses have a card.

As far as buffets go, I tried to avoid them if I can. I do like the Galley Breakfast buffet and those servers are attentive to the needs of their patrons but at some of the busier buffets....you may see you server once when you are seated and you get that one drink, try hunting them down for another drink, and to clear your plates, well let's just say I have not been pleased. I will now have to pay them 18% with the DDE, the same I would to a server at let's say Citrico's??? I know I can tip more, and I would probably do that, but the fact still remains I do not like them adding the gratuity and if we are not satisfied, we have to find the manager and have a discussion... Depending on the level of service and how upset the patron is the Managers will be taking the brunt of the aggravation, I wonder if they have a separate union to fight for them.

 

[FDV]

But double-tipping should not occur, given that all DDE members have received the update on the exciting new changes AND the clarification e-mail.

There are thousands of postings here from people asking the same questions about the DDP over and over and over. If they can't figure that out, yes there will be double tipping.

It would be interesting for one of the server members to fess up and tell us how much it happens.

 

[Sammie]

Throwing money at a situation does not always improve that situation. And what I find very interesting, is all the outrage over what servers make, now, that this new policy came into affect. Where was the outrage over their wages, prior to this change.

You can't just say give them more money and expect that to be an easy fix. That money has to come from somewhere and believe me it will be your pocket. Then there would be another hue and cry on this forum about how expensive Disney is. Also there are industry standards to consider and while I will be the first to say they are grossly underpaid you can't upset the apple cart without causing repercussions throughout the other departments.

As to the comment about poor service due to mandatory tips, I have never supported that theory and Dizserver listed all the reasons I felt that. Servers who will give you bad service will do so regardless of the mandatory tip.

In life we pay many predetermined fees prior to receiving the service, and I don't see anyone complaining about that. Are wait staff the only ones then that will put it to you, simply because you paid up front, I don't think so.

But just in case anyone is still confused by the change, I will repeat again what I said on Friday: DDE regardless of party size, parties of 6 or more regardless of how you pay, and table service only.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't know where you worked, but I sure would love to know! Not that I work in the industry anymore. I wouldn't. It's about being overworked and underpaid. A server makes $2.13 an hour, except in 7 states. They are expected in most places to do opening work, closing sidework and running work. They are expected to keep things in the restaurant clean. And how much you make depends on where you work. I know people who did much better at IHOP than at some fine dining establishments. It's about turn and burn and station size. Then there is the abuse you take from customers. The server = servant thing. The comments that are borderline sexual harrassment. It's just all part of the job. And I worked at very reputable places.

A server makes a *minimum* of 2.13/hour. There's nothing stopping a restaurant fromm paying more. When I was waiting tables, the only place I made minimum wage was at a neighborhood greasy spoon. Once I had some experience and was working in real restaurants, I made around double the waitstaff minimum plus tips.

Ask most servers if they'd rather make waitstaff minimum + tips or the same flat rate that other restaurant staff make, and most will take the tips every time. There is a reason they're waiting tables rather than running a register or stocking shelves somewhere for a stable $8/hour. I had one job where I was paid a MUCH better hourly rate and tipping was not allowed, but I quit in a hurry because even though my base wage was four times what it was at that greasy spoon where I started waiting tables, my total income was less because of the lack of tips.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

"In life we pay many predetermined fees prior to receiving the service, and I don't see anyone complaining about that. Are wait staff the only ones then that will put it to you, simply because you paid up front, I don't think so."

I agree, I think we pay in advance for cable... But let me clarify something from my standpoint, do not misunderstand me here. I am all for equal wage for servers, bartenders, etc... I do tip well and have been taught that by my parents who tipped well.. Mom was a waitress and knew what it was like to run her legs off trying to please.

It is not the servers, castmembers, etc. that I am annoyed at. I am annoyed at the cavalier attitude of Disney to just send us an email and say....from January 1 on, you will pay an 18% gratuity on your bill with your DDE card...does not matter the size of your party. I have a problem with having to do that, I like to tip based on service.

 

[rt2dz]

kaytieeldr: No, bad service does not warrant getting a manager before it comes to that point 90% of the time. That is the point of a bad tip, sending the message. It is much easier than all of that other. And have you ever heard the saying: Be nice to the person who handles your food? You still have to deal with that person. And while I strongly believe that most aren't going "get revenge" for your complaining, but they aren't going to go out of their way to do anything better. Even fantastic servers have a bad day, or a bad table. It is not unheard of in a busy situation to let one table go down in order to save the rest.

And while union negotations, not international travlers, are not the "reason" for the DDE auto-grat, what made union officials want an auto-grat from somewhere? It isn't "THE" reason, but it comes into play. And when people are using it as an arguement for auto-grat in general if not specifically this reason, it does come into play.

If there were plates on the table from a previous diner, that is a management and busser problem, not a server issue. Disney hires bussers, and, yes, servers pre-bus, but not in our experience at Disney Buffets. But then again, someone was saying something about 5 trips to the buffet. My family doesn't eat anywhere near that much, and we don't pile the plates high. I find buffets to be a very poor value because of it and would like to avoid them altogether. However, tell my 3 and 6 yo that we can't go to Chef Mickey's or 90% of the other character meals and see how well it goes over.

My DH has worked in both restaurants. He'll tell you loud and clear that buffets are way easier than table service to wait on. You also get double the tables in a buffet. Over half the amount of work isn't present in a buffet, including connecting with the table.

FDV: I've worked fine dining. And know many more people who have worked in a huge variety of restaurants. Fine dining does not equal more money in most cases. The average causal restaurant has a station of 3-4 tables. Fine dining is 1-2. Fine Dining requires a higher level of service, which means you need to be there more often. The trade off is that there are much higher checks. In the end though, it balances. Like I stated before, I knew people who left fine dining to go to IHOP because in the end, their paychecks were higher at IHop than the fine dining place and the expectations of the restaurant were much lower. And this wasn't a poor server; this was an excellent server.

I was in the industry for decades. So was DH--and we never worked together. We still have many good friends who work in the industry. We all laugh at the fee to be able to work there rumors. That isn't true. I live in one of the largest metro areas in the country and know no one who makes 6 figures waiting tables. Except for maybe where the cost of living is so out of the ballpark (ie, Hawaii) that it wouldn't matter anyhow. That is one of those little snoopes things.

Also, you're a little mistaken on how the taxes are configured. Each server pays 100% of their credit card/room charge tips and auto-grat tips. The restaurant is required to submit those earnings to the IRS or risk large fines. Then a server pays taxes on a minimum of 8% of every cash bill (or non-credit card tipped bill). The assumption is that if no tip is left on the credit card statement, a cash tip is left. So, servers pay for tips they were stiffed on. Then on top of that, servers generally have a tip out of 1-3% of what they sell that goes to bartenders, food runners, bussers and sometimes host staff. Tip out will vary from restaurant to restuarant. I once worked at a restaurant that had servers pay out 17% of what they earned, which must be at least 4% of what they sold.

 

[just another guy]

Well you have cheap local and those who don't know how to tip to blame. Yes, plenty of people tip properly, but for servers, its those who don't who are remembered. There are orlando locals who stop by disney restaurants(no park ones) on a regular basis, ring up $50+ bills, get their 20% off, and then leave a $2 tip. There are also those on vacation who have a $100 bill, get their 20% off, making the bill $80 They do their math, and think leaving $12 is a nice 15% tip. Some people can't understand the tip is based on the prediscounted amount. Most servers I know are all for this auto grat because of the above two mentioned examples.

 

[ImprovGal]

If you mean December '07 you're probably right, there are virtually no ADR's to be had for lunch / dinner. You will need to eat somewhere else.

Steve

Aw, there are plenty of ressies available for December '07!

I was just able to get dinner reservations at the 4 restaurants I wanted and even at the times I wanted during the week leading up to Christmas. Kona and Narcosees for 3 people, Wolfgang Puck Cafe and Bluezoo for just me.