Beating a dead horse

[bicker]

I know kids miss, and some adults too (why I dont have a clue) but they do.

A little urinal trival for you. There are actually patented designs that result in less spatter -- a very significant premium is applicable for those designs, and they're actually not necessarily available to fit every intended restroom decor. So most places just aim to try to keep the rest room clean after-the-fact, rather than spending a lot of extra money to put in specially-shaped porcelain that would keep the room cleaner to-start-with.

Used to see a janitor in about every restroom or near one taking care of things. Not anymore. At least I dont see it.

That's more a sign of the times than anything related to who the custodians work for. Labor is very expensive, and over the years cleanliness has falling in priority in the minds of too many guests.

The point, though, is that hopefully this outsourcing will help improve service where it is applied. It can't hurt to try.

 

[jimmytammy]

A little urinal trival for you. There are actually patented designs that result in less spatter -- a very significant premium is applicable for those designs, and they're actually not necessarily available to fit every intended restroom decor. So most places just aim to try to keep the rest room clean after-the-fact, rather than spending a lot of extra money to put in specially-shaped porcelain that would keep the room cleaner to-start-with.

That's more a sign of the times than anything related to who the custodians work for. Labor is very expensive, and over the years cleanliness has falling in priority in the minds of too many guests.

The point, though, is that hopefully this outsourcing will help improve service where it is applied. It can't hurt to try.

If outsourcing does help improve things, then Im all for it. Only time will tell.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I think I was the one who mentioned the urinals, so I will take a shot at it. What I noticed was not so much the urinals, but the floor below the urinals. I know kids miss, and some adults too (why I dont have a clue) but they do. The point I was trying to make is that this has become common, but it wasnt common just a few years ago. And, the floors didnt remain this way for long. Used to see a janitor in about every restroom or near one taking care of things. Not anymore. At least I dont see it.

I think we all agree the parks arent as clean as they used to be. Used to, a piece of paper on the ground, a CM would pick it up and take care of it. Heck, I remember hearing about this before I ever made the 1st trip there. Now, trash is common on the ground. Not as big a deal as it used to be.

I, as a DVC owner, and a shareholder feel I have a right to be concerned over the decline of service at WDW. It was gradual at first, but now it seems outright blatant! What will be the accepted in 5-10 years from now? I for one am going to complain about the decline I see. And believe me, as a business owner, the last thing I want are complaints. I am VERY passive when it comes to complaints from myself. But these things are getting out of hand.

As for outsourcing, its business. Not much I can do. I can complain. But bottom line, I still expect the same service and quality I got when I bought into 40plus years of vacations in 01.

I do agree that CMs that have been there for years, yes they can become complacent. It is human nature, we all do.

Sorry for the rambling

I don't really disagree with any of this. I just remain confused by the anti-outsourcing posts attributing the general decline of cleanliness to outsourced workers with the assumption being that WDW CM somehow clean better and more enthusiatically. I just don't see the connection.

 

[Figment2]

Just got back from BWV and talked to the valet CMs about this. The rumor is they will be offered other jobs but so far they haven't heard a thing from Disney. They know about as much as we do.

If the change is to happen in early January, Disney isn't giving them a lot of time to make a decision or to find another job.

One thing I noticed this trip is people just dropping their trash - both kids and adults alike. It started at the MVMCP with the hot chocolate cups and napkins. Didn't matter that there was a trash can two feet behind them. Even without cutbacks, I believe the custodial staff is hardput to keep up with current attitudes on cleanliness.

Cyn

 

[jodifla]

I don't really disagree with any of this. I just remain confused by the anti-outsourcing posts attributing the general decline of cleanliness to outsourced workers with the assumption being that WDW CM somehow clean better and more enthusiatically. I just don't see the connection.

I think there's a very different mindset being a WDW employee vs. a hired gun from the outside.

When you are a Disney employee, there's specific training on how to treat guests, and you have some protection because the union fights for basic rights for their employees.

With an outsource company, you have no idea about how their being treated, or schooled in guest relations.

I'm sure there are complacent CMs. But I'd bet there are many more workers from outsource companies who have no sense of buy-in to the WDW mission, and are just punching a clock.

 

[jodifla]

Just got back from BWV and talked to the valet CMs about this. The rumor is they will be offered other jobs but so far they haven't heard a thing from Disney. They know about as much as we do.

If the change is to happen in early January, Disney isn't giving them a lot of time to make a decision or to find another job.

One thing I noticed this trip is people just dropping their trash - both kids and adults alike. It started at the MVMCP with the hot chocolate cups and napkins. Didn't matter that there was a trash can two feet behind them. Even without cutbacks, I believe the custodial staff is hardput to keep up with current attitudes on cleanliness.

Cyn

Did you actually see them drop it? What I noticed on our last trip was that the trash cans were full, and the trash was tumbling over the sides when people brushed by.

 

[bicker]

When you are a Disney employee, there's specific training on how to treat guests, and you have some protection because the union fights for basic rights for their employees.

So between the training that we know that CMs get, some of which work for guest satisfaction, and the work rules the union has been able to get management to agree to in the contract, some of which work against guest satisfaction, it's pretty much a wash.

With non-union workers, we can rely, at least, on the fact that if customers complain about service, action can be taken.

With an outsource company, you have no idea about how their being treated, or schooled in guest relations.

Well, of course, we already know the company involved here -- BAGS -- has a great reputation for training their workers to provide excellent customer service.

 

[Figment2]

Yep, saw some people drop trash. In MK, the trash cans were not full where we saw the most cups and napkins since I dropped my trash into one of the cans.


C.

 

[jimmytammy]

I don't really disagree with any of this. I just remain confused by the anti-outsourcing posts attributing the general decline of cleanliness to outsourced workers with the assumption being that WDW CM somehow clean better and more enthusiatically. I just don't see the connection.

I tend to lean towards the idea that CMs will have a better idea what WDW expects of them vs. an outside source. But as I wrote in a previous post, if outsourcing is the way Disney feels the need to go, then only time will tell if it was the right call or not. All we are doing here is speculating. We know what is going on now in the parks and resorts, and its a downhill slide in keeping the appearance up to WDW standards of the past, IMO.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Figment2 says : One thing I noticed this trip is people just dropping their trash - both kids and adults alike.

Got on a monorail a week ago and there was alot of trash (cups/napkins/straws), just thrown behind the seat. Never noticed trash on the monorails before.

bickers says :With non-union workers, we can rely, at least, on the fact that if customers complain about service, action can be taken.

Action can be taken with union employees ? At least my experience shows that. It might take a little more red tape because complaints need to go through the union, but records and policies are in force where the employees are concerned. My husband deals with union employee complaints all the time at his work. He needs to file a "grievance" form with the union but records of complaints are maintained and action is taken where needed. Are wdw unions different ? But I would think the customer could still complain to wdw, and wdw, in turn, file a complaint/grievance with the union ?

 

[bicker]

It might take a little more red tape [to take action in response to poor performance by union workers]

That's precisely my point. That layer of red-tape adds no value to the guest.

 

[MiaSRN62]

That's precisely my point. That layer of red-tape adds no value to the guest.

True, but there's no guarantee a non-union company will react swiftly to customer complaints either. I've experienced that before. Sometimes, depending on the company/administration, complaints are not always given the importance they should and customers complaints just get swept under the rug. Stringent complaint files are maintained with union workers from my experiences.
I'm not saying the outsource company disney hired won't take any guest complaints seriously---I am hoping they will----just saying there is no guarantee either way and wanted to clarify that union employees can and do have action taken against them based on their records. Disney would have to stringently follow through with them after a guest makes a complaint.

 

[bicker]

No guarantee, but we already know that BAGS will, because they have provided great service, AND they can be more readily relied on to continue to be superlatively responsive because they don't have to work through the union!

 

[bicker]

Hmmm... This thread sure has lived up to its name, eh?

 

[MiaSRN62]

Hmmm... This thread sure has lived up to its name, eh?

Yeah...and nothing like consistancy on ALL of our parts

 

[tjkraz]

Where did you see that restrooms are no longer cleaned by WDW employees?

From the story:

Yet the mix of cleaning and customer service is an important part of the job and one that Disney customers frequently expect, said former Fort Wilderness custodian Luz Martinez, 41, of Davenport, who left in November 2005 rather than switch to a day shift when her job was outsourced.

"I was a custodian, I cleaned and took care of the guests. I was a runner also," she said. "I dealt with housecleaning, getting them what they needed."

It would be shocking if outsourced people did their jobs as well as Disney employees. They have no sense of ownership at all.

Getting away from the union debate for a moment, I did want to address this particular post. As is often the case, the Sentinel wasn't exactly crystal clear in projecting an accurate message.

The outsourced job referred-to in the above piece was that of a third-shift resort housekeeping staff member. About 150 of these positions were eliminated around 18 months ago.

Was the article wrong? No. But judging by the responses here it did give a false impression that a wide variety of cleaning jobs with major guest interaction were outsourced. That is incorrect. The guest rooms are still being cleaned by Disney CMs. The theme parks are being cleaned by Disney CMs. Restrooms are being cleaned by Disney CMs (with the possible exception of public restrooms at resorts only during nighttime hours.)

As also noted in the article (altough not in a slap-you-in-the-face manner) is that the CMs in the outsourced jobs were all offered alternative employment.

As to the more current changes, like Sammie I have heard from reliable sources that the Bell Services jobs at the DVC, Deluxe and Moderate resorts are NOT being outsourced. The baggage handlers at the Value resorts ARE being outsourced, but I understand those positions have much less guest interaction than at the more upscale locations. The Sentinel article mentions "bellhop" and "baggage handler" positions, but chose not to elaborate on the specifics.

 

[Sammie]

Getting away from the union debate for a moment, I did want to address this particular post. As is often the case, the Sentinel wasn't exactly crystal clear in projecting an accurate message.

The outsourced job referred-to in the above piece was that of a third-shift resort housekeeping staff member. About 150 of these positions were eliminated around 18 months ago.

Was the article wrong? No. But judging by the responses here it did give a false impression that a wide variety of cleaning jobs with major guest interaction were outsourced. That is incorrect. The guest rooms are still being cleaned by Disney CMs. The theme parks are being cleaned by Disney CMs. Restrooms are being cleaned by Disney CMs (with the possible exception of public restrooms at resorts only during nighttime hours.)

As also noted in the article (altough not in a slap-you-in-the-face manner) is that the CMs in the outsourced jobs were all offered alternative employment.

As to the more current changes, like Sammie I have heard from reliable sources that the Bell Services jobs at the DVC, Deluxe and Moderate resorts are NOT being outsourced. The baggage handlers at the Value resorts ARE being outsourced, but I understand those positions have much less guest interaction than at the more upscale locations. The Sentinel article mentions "bellhop" and "baggage handler" positions, but chose not to elaborate on the specifics.

Thanks TJ, for making the point I was trying to make much clearer. It is not unusual for a newspaper to take a slant on an article by projecting an opinion, while sharing "the facts".